Re: Teaching Java and Perl

2001-01-08 Thread Mark Rogaski

An entity claiming to be Roger Burton West ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
: So really it's Pascal all over again - if you only teach them one
: language, it's what they'll always use. If you teach them two,
: they may just possibly see the similarities and start to generalise
: to the class of "programming languages in general"...

So, you learned with Perl, eh?  Programmers, by nature, tend to be able to
learn new languages when necessary.


Mark Rogaski  | "I've said this before but I'll say it again:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Smashing Pumpkins IS REO Speedwagon." |  -- Steve Albini
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Re: Teaching Java and Perl

2001-01-08 Thread Andy Wardley

It's possibly a blatant over-generalisation, but I get the impression that
most Java programmers are the people who learn whatever language the
marketing people tell them is the latest, coolest langauge, and/or
whatever languge they can earn most money contracting in.

Unfortunately, that langauge is Java on both counts.

Real hackers tend to evaluate languages on the merits of the language
alone.  They're more likely to use Perl than Java, or to use a combination
of several different language as and when is appropriate.  They care more
about getting the job done than getting the next job.

Just my 2 bits, of course.


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RE: Teaching Java and Perl

2001-01-08 Thread Jon Galliers

I've been reading this discussion with interest[1], as we are in just that
process of deciding how best to develop 'web solutions' fast enough for
clients, bless their sweet hearts, and whether Java or Perl is the best
'tool' for the job. My personal feelings echo sentiments expressed earlier
in that Perl tends not to be taught, it's learnt by people who need it to
provide a solution to a particular solution, whereas Java is formally taught
and is then used to provide solutions whether or not it is the right tool or

I'm still fairly new to Perl, and even newer to Java so I'm probably not the
best judge, but you have on one hand a proprietary language intensively
promoted by a large IT corporation, and on the other a 'free' language
promoted by the people who use it and find it infinitely useful. In this
arena Perl is always going to appear a non-commercial, or non-enterprise
solution where we have a whole IT infrastructure purchased by middle
management who have a sketchy understanding of programming technology and
who, on the whole, have been formally taught.

However, does this mean that Perl has to become a 'commercial' application
to compete? When you consider the spread and use of Perl has without formal
commercial support I don't think so.

Jon Galliers
Design Net

[1]and thinking I should contribute something to this list, even if it is an
incoherent ramble, and vowing that I'll make more effort to get to the next