Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

I'm trying to duplicate an FS from an oldish 5,400rpm 6GB IDE drive to a new
7,200rpm 61GB IDE drive using the usual cp -ax / /mnt. But it's
unbelievably slow -- vmstat 2 is reporting bi/bo around 300!

Having just compared that with my main server (10K  7.2K SCSIs) that's
10x slower. The thing I noticed is that the interrupts were approaching
10K/s(!) whereas on the working box they're around 1500. CPU system is
also near-pegged around 80%.

Anyone know what might be going on here?

(Linux 2.2.17, Debian woody. The 6GB is connected with an 80pin IDE
cable -- might that do it??)

Paul, who will probably end up using FreeBSD since its hardware RAID
(HPT370) and video (Matrox G450 dual) is apparently better...



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:19:21AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 Paul, who will probably end up using FreeBSD since its hardware RAID
 (HPT370) and video (Matrox G450 dual) is apparently better...

vinum in mirror mode is not supposed to be that good (apparently it does
no integrity checking of the mirror). However, I am not an authoritative
source on this.

MBM




Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I'm trying to duplicate an FS from an oldish 5,400rpm 6GB IDE drive to a new
 7,200rpm 61GB IDE drive using the usual cp -ax / /mnt. But it's
 unbelievably slow -- vmstat 2 is reporting bi/bo around 300!

What does hdparm have to say?


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:27:07AM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
 On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 03:19:21AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
  Paul, who will probably end up using FreeBSD since its hardware RAID
  (HPT370) and video (Matrox G450 dual) is apparently better...
 
 vinum in mirror mode is not supposed to be that good (apparently it does
 no integrity checking of the mirror). However, I am not an authoritative
 source on this.

You don't have to use vinum with hardware raid.

I almost fell for that, too.  ;-)

OTOH, one other thing to be aware of with vinum (the software RAID bit
of FreeBSD) is that it doesn't support the root partition yet.  AFAIK.

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 11:19:28AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 What does hdparm have to say?

Ah yes, thanks, I remember that from 1997, the last time I used it :-)

I switched DMA on both drives (hdparm -d1), and interrupts went down,
transfer rate went up and all was good. Now, why do I have to do that?
dmesg reports:

ide0: BM-DMA at 0xc000-0xc007, BIOS settings: hda:DMA, hdb:pio
ide1: BM-DMA at 0xc008-0xc00f, BIOS settings: hdc:DMA, hdd:pio

i.e. both DMA, so why does hdparm -d say using_dma off (and the system
generally crawl)?

Paul

-- 
How would you have done it?



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
  I'm trying to duplicate an FS from an oldish 5,400rpm 6GB IDE drive to a new
  7,200rpm 61GB IDE drive using the usual cp -ax / /mnt. But it's
  unbelievably slow -- vmstat 2 is reporting bi/bo around 300!
 
 What does hdparm have to say?

good point ... many/most linux distros come with all the bells and
whistles for quick HD access turned to 'off'  .. I tripled the transfer
rate on my slaptop by turning DMA and other stuff on ... and it didn;t
explode like the manpage said it might.

another tip is to mount the two IDE devices on seperate controllers ..
seems to improve things sometimes.

-- 
Robin Szemeti   

Redpoint Consulting Limited
Real Solutions For A Virtual World 



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 another tip is to mount the two IDE devices on seperate controllers ..
 seems to improve things sometimes.

Oh Lord, yes. More busses than London General. No, really.


-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 02:32:58PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 whistles for quick HD access turned to 'off'  .. I tripled the transfer
 rate on my slaptop by turning DMA and other stuff on ... and it didn;t
 explode like the manpage said it might.

I caved and upgraded to 2.4.5, something I dislike doing with Debian.
2.4.x has better gfx card  AGP support. Anyway, there is an option
CONFIG_IDEDMA_AUTO=y and CONFIG_IDEDMA_PCI_AUTO=y which *still* don't
have udma switched on with the drives. Oh well.

Is there an agreed-upon place to perform the hdparm shenanigans during
boot? I would imagine early on...

OK, getting more esoteric now -- is anyone running dual monitors? I
finally got my G450 running with KDE2 but the window manager doesn't add
decoration to the windows on the 2ndary monitor, i.e. I can't move
windows and they don't get mouse focus.

Paul

-- 
Slow preparation, fast execution



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 08:12:30AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 OK, getting more esoteric now -- is anyone running dual monitors? I
 finally got my G450 running with KDE2 but the window manager doesn't add
 decoration to the windows on the 2ndary monitor, i.e. I can't move
 windows and they don't get mouse focus.

You might need to run a 2nd copy of kwin, like this:

% kwin -- display :0.1

Try that and see if it works...

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Mark Fowler

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:

 OK, getting more esoteric now -- is anyone running dual monitors? I
 finally got my G450 running with KDE2 but the window manager doesn't add
 decoration to the windows on the 2ndary monitor, i.e. I can't move
 windows and they don't get mouse focus.

Are you using xinerama (i.e. so your monitors are spliced together into
one display?)  E (still 0.15.5...) runs fine with this[1] on my G400 and
XFree86 4.0 (with dem beta drivers)

Later.

Mark.

[1] Actually sometimes it moves a windows I'm resizing on my secondary
monitor onto my first, but that's only once in a very blue moon.

-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}




Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:26:14PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 You might need to run a 2nd copy of kwin, like this:
 
 % kwin -- display :0.1

(--display)

 Try that and see if it works...

Yes! Thanks. Now to get it to start like that on its own... It's very
weird re-learning X after nearly a decade since I last properly used it.

KDE2's Konqueror browser is really, really impressive. Wow! Seems
quicker and less crashy than Mozilla. Now if only it played Flash
and Quicktime movies...

Paul

-- 
From nothing to more than nothing



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:41:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
 Are you using xinerama (i.e. so your monitors are spliced together into
 one display?)

No, it's KDE2 which seems to split them into separate desktops. The
mouse moves between them as though they're one but I can't drag windows
back  forth (no loss, really). The Matrox Windows drivers are much
better -- graphical arbitrary relative positioning of the 2nd monitor.

 E (still 0.15.5...)

Talking of E check out these bus modes:

# hdparm -i /dev/hda | tail -1
 DMA modes: mdma0 mdma1 mdma2 udma0 udma1 udma2 udma3 udma4 *udma5
#

Paul



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 08:42:50AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:26:14PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  You might need to run a 2nd copy of kwin, like this:
  
  % kwin -- display :0.1
 
 (--display)

Sorry, saw that after I posted...  Why don't spell checkers understand
Unix?  :-)

  Try that and see if it works...
 
 Yes! Thanks. Now to get it to start like that on its own... It's very
 weird re-learning X after nearly a decade since I last properly used it.
 
 KDE2's Konqueror browser is really, really impressive. Wow! Seems
 quicker and less crashy than Mozilla. Now if only it played Flash
 and Quicktime movies...

Konqueror should be able to use any standard netscape plugins, such as
the flash plugin.  You're probably out of luck with the quicktime
movies though.

I'd like to tell you how to get the flash plugin working, but I couldn't
because it's a Linux .so and can't be linked in to my FreeBSD konqueror.  :-(

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 08:47:28AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:41:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
  Are you using xinerama (i.e. so your monitors are spliced together into
  one display?)
 
 No, it's KDE2 which seems to split them into separate desktops. The
 mouse moves between them as though they're one but I can't drag windows
 back  forth (no loss, really). The Matrox Windows drivers are much
 better -- graphical arbitrary relative positioning of the 2nd monitor.

The monitor layout should be controllable from the XF86Config file.
Somehow.  I haven't tried this though.  RTFM.

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Simon Wistow

Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 
 I'd like to tell you how to get the flash plugin working, but I couldn't
 because it's a Linux .so and can't be linked in to my FreeBSD konqueror.  :-(

There's an OpenSource version written by Olivier Debon. It's not as good
as the official one but it's better than a kick in the tits with a wet
haddock.

http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/

-- 
simon wistowwireless systems coder
i think, i said i think this is our fault.



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:55:12PM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 The monitor layout should be controllable from the XF86Config file.
 Somehow.  I haven't tried this though.  RTFM.

I have,

Section ServerLayout
Identifier  Default Layout
Screen  Primary
Screen  Secondary LeftOf Primary
InputDevice Generic Keyboard
InputDevice Configured Mouse
EndSection

What I really meant was Windows allows me to point-and-drool the 2ndary
monitor around and change the res and position on the fly rather than
having to restart X. Its cute graphic also shows the relative monitor
sizes -- which is actually depressing because it illustrates just how
much bigger  better the $1600 21 monitor (2048x1536, and usable) is
over a $400 21 (1280x1024, struggling to manage 80Hz) :-/

Paul



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 05:05:28PM +0100, Simon Wistow wrote:
 Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  
  I'd like to tell you how to get the flash plugin working, but I couldn't
  because it's a Linux .so and can't be linked in to my FreeBSD konqueror.  :-(
 
 There's an OpenSource version written by Olivier Debon. It's not as good
 as the official one but it's better than a kick in the tits with a wet
 haddock.
 
 http://www.swift-tools.com/Flash/

Doh!  I already have the standalone player from that installed, it's
just that the port didn't install the netscape plugin.  Well, that's
something to do tonight.

-Dom

-- 
| Semantico: creators of major online resources  |
|   URL: http://www.semantico.com/   |
|   Tel: +44 (1273) 72   |
|   Address: 33 Bond St., Brighton, Sussex, BN1 1RD, UK. |



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Mark Fowler

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:

 I have,

 Section ServerLayout Identifier Default Layout Screen Primary
 Screen Secondary LeftOf Primary InputDevice Generic Keyboard
 InputDevice Configured Mouse EndSection


Look, look, bad Text::Autoformat setup.  I suck.  Anyway..

And I have

Section ServerLayout
Identifier  another layout
Screen  Primary
Screen  Secondary RightOf Primary
InputDevice Mouse1 CorePointer
InputDevice Keyboard1 CoreKeyboard
EndSection

You really only have to change LeftOf and RightOf to switch the monitors
around (which I did last time I moved desk as I went from having one
monitor to the left of the primary console monitor to having one monitor
to the right.)

You can't do that in Windows.  Ha.


-- 
s''  Mark Fowler London.pm   Bath.pm
 http://www.twoshortplanks.com/  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
';use Term'Cap;$t=Tgetent Term'Cap{};print$t-Tputs(cl);for$w(split/  +/
){for(0..30){$|=print$t-Tgoto(cm,$_,$y). $w;select$k,$k,$k,.03}$y+=2}




Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 05:41:45PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
 On Thu, 31 May 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
  Section ServerLayout Identifier Default Layout Screen Primary
  Screen Secondary LeftOf Primary InputDevice Generic Keyboard
  InputDevice Configured Mouse EndSection
 
 
 Look, look, bad Text::Autoformat setup.  I suck.  Anyway..

Wait 'til you have 'X' at the end of a sentence! Or e.g. or something.
It gets Microsoftly clever.

 And I have
 
 Section ServerLayout
 Identifier  another layout
 Screen  Primary
 Screen  Secondary RightOf Primary
 InputDevice Mouse1 CorePointer
 InputDevice Keyboard1 CoreKeyboard
 EndSection
 
 You really only have to change LeftOf and RightOf to switch the monitors
 around (which I did last time I moved desk as I went from having one
 monitor to the left of the primary console monitor to having one monitor
 to the right.)
 
 You can't do that in Windows.  Ha.

Can too! You can have the 2nd one in any orientation at all to the 1st,
1400 pixels to the left, 1000 above, with a 1024x768 screen. *And* you
can do all this without restarting your window manager..

Not that I like Windows or anything :)

Paul



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Paul Mison

On 31/05/2001 at 17:41 +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:

You really only have to change LeftOf and RightOf to switch the monitors
around (which I did last time I moved desk as I went from having one
monitor to the left of the primary console monitor to having one monitor
to the right.)

You can't do that in Windows.  Ha.

Are you sure?

Anyway, you've been able to do multiple monitors in Mac OS since 6
point something tiny. With as many monitors as you can get cards for
(theoretically, I think there are ways of doing about 20.) And all with
an idiotproof pointy clicky interface. Ha ha.

And it copes when you make a laptop go from dual-head back to running
on the internal screen- all the windows just move back. (Under OS 9,
anyway.)

Aha ha ha!

Sorry. I'll drink some more Unix kool aid in a minute.

--
:: paul
:: stay all day
:: if you want to





Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 31 May 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, May 31, 2001 at 04:41:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote:
  Are you using xinerama (i.e. so your monitors are spliced together into
  one display?)
 
 No, it's KDE2 which seems to split them into separate desktops. The
 mouse moves between them as though they're one but I can't drag windows
 back  forth (no loss, really). The Matrox Windows drivers are much
 better -- graphical arbitrary relative positioning of the 2nd monitor.

I'm still waiting for someone to finally get support for my ATI Mobilty
r128 sorted out

still cant have the 2nd monitor or tvout stuff working under Linux ..
does under windoze though ...  and ATI reckon to provide oodles of
assistance to the Linux community so it should happen soon i hope.

-- 
Robin Szemeti   

Redpoint Consulting Limited
Real Solutions For A Virtual World 



Re: Slow disks under linux

2001-05-31 Thread Redvers Davies

 KDE2's Konqueror browser is really, really impressive. Wow! Seems
 quicker and less crashy than Mozilla. Now if only it played Flash
 and Quicktime movies...

Mine does flash...