Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Mark Fowler

 Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a
 differing viewpoint.

Nice BLINK tags.

bss?  Biological Sciences Staff?  Hmmm.

Mark.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  = 'Profero Ltd',Web   = 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )








Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Tony Bowden

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 08:40:56PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
 If you present the chart in a different format to how they did then
 there's nothing they can do...
 Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a
 differing viewpoint.

OK ... when I said "there's nothing they can do", I of course meant
there's nothing they can do if you're prepared to actually fight them
in court, not "they can't send you threatening legal letters that
actually carry no legal weight".

There's nothing at that page to suggest that CIN were doing anything
other than throwing their weight around just to scare someone off.
Which is what companies do all the time. 

I paid thousands of pounds for legal advice on this very issue (albeit
about 5 years ago), and the opinion I got was "factual information
cannot be copyrighted - only the arrangement of it". The classic case is
someone who retypes a phone book. You can't reissue it in the same order
(i.e. alphabetic by surname) as the original, but you could quite happily
order it numberic by phone number and no-one could do anything...

Tony
-- 
-
 Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk
make me laugh make me cry enrage me don't try to disengage me
-




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Philip Newton

Tony Bowden wrote:
 The classic case is someone who retypes a phone book. You
 can't reissue it in the same order (i.e. alphabetic by surname)
 as the original, but you could quite happily order it numberic
 by phone number and no-one could do anything...

They could in Germany :-).

There's been quite a bit of hoo-ha about this in recent years. It started
out with a company providing a telephone CD (apparently they had people in
China type up printed telephone directories, which was cheaper than buying
the data from German Telecom) which also enabled you to search by number.
Then that was forbidden, and third-party companies started selling add-ons
that worked with vendor XYZ's telephone CD to add the reverse search back
in; those are forbidden, too, but these third parties are harder to get at.

I believe the reasoning given is data protection -- people consented to have
their name and number in a book but only for the usual use: looking up a
number by name. And that people are not allowed to provide reverse search
unless they have the consent of all the people involved.

Cheers,
Philip



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Mike Jarvis

Tony Bowden wrote:
 The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That*
 is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue.

How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what
the object code to commercial app looks like?"

Under (U.S.) IP law, it's pretty much the same thing. ymmv. ianal.

--
mike




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Tony Bowden

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:03:52AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
  The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one". *That*
  is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue.
 How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what
 the object code to commercial app looks like?"

If people can't see a difference here, then let's just leave it to
the lawyers. We'll just go round and round for ages...

Tony
-- 
-
 Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk
 i don't want the world i just want your half
-



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Matthew Jones

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 08:03:52AM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
  The fact you are recording is "What Billboard said was number one".
*That*
  is a fact. Why they decided it was number one isn't the issue.
 How about if I put up a website wherein I disclose the fact: "This is what
 the object code to commercial app looks like?"

Is this relevant at all?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16147.html
"The injunction was granted thanks to new European database laws that
essentially assume data to be copyrightable"

Does that mean things like the Billboard charts? They could certainly try
and demonstrate an adverse effect on their revenues from licensing their
listings...

-- 
matt
"The problem with youth culture and media today is that young people are
given the impression that they actually are doing something, when in fact
they are only needed as participants in a staged marketing event."  -
Wolfgang Tillmans



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-18 Thread Tony Bowden

On Thu, Jan 18, 2001 at 01:53:12PM -, Matthew Jones wrote:
 Is this relevant at all?
 http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/16147.html
 "The injunction was granted thanks to new European database laws that
 essentially assume data to be copyrightable"

Almost certainly. As I say, my legal dealings here were 5 years ago
when it wasn't...

 Does that mean things like the Billboard charts? They could certainly try
 and demonstrate an adverse effect on their revenues from licensing their
 listings...

Well, you're into transatlantic stuff if the site was in the UK, but this
new law would massively complicate things.

Tony
-- 
-
 Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk
   beneath it's shining like gold but better rumours of glory
-



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Steve Mynott

Nathan Torkington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 As I said, though, we're REALLY worried about Europeans being on
 vacation and unable to attend.  We don't know much about the
 mysterious habits of this strange and noble race, and would appreciate
 your guesses as to their actions: will our attendance be buggered[1]

I don't know if you are asking the right people here.  I think the
actions of most Europeans are as much a mystery to those in the UK as
the US.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

the demagogue is one who preaches doctrines he knows to be untrue to men
he knows to be idiots.  -- h. l. mencken



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 11:54:04PM +, Robin Szemeti wrote:

 Since the majority of
 UK programmers work in London they are less than likely to want to attend
 a conference there in peak holiday season IMHO

Actually I'd rather it not be in the UK at all.  After all, if my employers
are going to pay to send me to a conference, then they may as well pay to
send me somewhere nice.  Rome.  Or Vienna perhaps, cos I've never been
there.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Neil Ford

David Cantrell writes:
  Linuxbierwanderung 2001.  To be held in Belgium but with a large UK
  contingent.  Date to be confirmed within the next couple of weeks, but
  will almost certainly be a week somewhere between 19 Aug and 8 Sept.  It
  would be *really* great - especially for intercontinental visitors - if
  your con could be immediately before or after the LBW.

The Amsterdam YAPC folks have a bunch of venues they're looking at,
but only some have given them specific dates they're free.  The only
dates they've been told about are for the week before the London
OScon.  I hope the L16G 2001 doesn't clash with either.

As I said, though, we're REALLY worried about Europeans being on
vacation and unable to attend.  We don't know much about the
mysterious habits of this strange and noble race, and would appreciate
your guesses as to their actions: will our attendance be buggered[1]
because those on the Continong will be sunning their lily-white
bottoms in the south of France instead of getting lilier-white by
hanging out with other open source geeks?[2]

Well I know Belgium effectively closes for a month but I can't 
remember if it's July or August (never _ever_ have a product that you 
can't meet demand for only produced in one place in the world and 
that being Belgium! It makes for a fun life, NOT! :-) ) and Paris 
does effectively shut down for a couple of weeks in August (Parisians 
go to the coast for their hols), so there is some precedent for 
saying Europe effectively shuts down for August.

I'm with Dave on the whole don't hold it in the UK thing, if I'm off 
to a conference I'd rather it was somewhere away from home. I'd have 
said The Netherlands but YAPC::Europe's bagged that one.

Was the choice of the UK because of possible language barriers?

Neil.

-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Tony Bowden

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
 We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
 looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes

Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver:
  http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html

Tony
-- 
-
 Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk
  let's do tricks with chicks and clocks, sir
-



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:25 +, Tony Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
  We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
  looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
 
 Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver:
   http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html

Now that _could_ be a major problem. Damian, MJD and Randal are all
on that cruise.

Dave...
[who was just reading the brochure last night and contemplating going
on it himself]



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread alex


In my opinion London would be fine for an August conference.

I don't know what the fuss is about, really.  London is not like Paris in
the summer.  We have a lot more parks.

Perhaps September would be better, but hey.


Alex

-- 
Snack pastries are dramatic when shapes are combined




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:25 +, Tony Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
   We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
   looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
  
  Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver:
http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html
 
 Now that _could_ be a major problem. Damian, MJD and Randal are all
 on that cruise.
 

all we'd need to do is hire some terrorists to take over the cruise
ship and sale it across to london - of course someone should make
sure we shoot the cook before the operation starts, oh and fire
a couple of rounds into the birthday cake while your at it.

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Neil Ford

* Dave Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:25 +, Tony Bowden 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
  
   Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver:
 http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html

  Now that _could_ be a major problem. Damian, MJD and Randal are all
  on that cruise.


all we'd need to do is hire some terrorists to take over the cruise
ship and sale it across to london - of course someone should make
sure we shoot the cook before the operation starts, oh and fire
a couple of rounds into the birthday cake while your at it.

You don't wan't to do that, it's likely to be the only female on the 
ship. And anyway, we'd need something to keep Randal amused on the 
long trip (and it would be a _long_ trip from the Pacific Northwest 
to Europe).

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread James Powell

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 11:08:41AM +, alex wrote:
 
 In my opinion London would be fine for an August conference.
 
 I don't know what the fuss is about, really.  London is not like Paris in
 the summer.  We have a lot more parks.
 
 Perhaps September would be better, but hey.
 

Yeah ditto...



jp



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread James Powell

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 11:47:37AM +, Marcel Grunauer wrote:
 
 David Cantrell writes:
 
 Actually I'd rather it not be in the UK at all.  After all, if my employers
 are going to pay to send me to a conference, then they may as well pay to
 send me somewhere nice.  Rome.  Or Vienna perhaps, cos I've never been
 there.
 
 Good idea, hold it in Vienna. Makes for an easy commute (for a change).

This means nothing to me, ohhh...

(sorry)



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:00:57 +, James Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[Vienna]
 
 This means nothing to me, ohhh...

True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. It was help at number two 
for weeks, by Another Record.

Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to tell me what Another Record 
was.

Dave...



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mark Kitching
Title: RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention






 
 This means nothing to me, ohhh...

True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. 
It was help at number two for weeks, by Another Record.

Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to 
tell me what Another Record was.

Dave...


Was it Shaddap a yer Face? Tragic!


Markk.





RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Gareth Harper
Title: RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention





Joe Dolce Shaddap ya face


-Original Message-
From: Dave Cross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 17 January 2001 12:03
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention



At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:00:57 +, James Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


[Vienna]

 This means nothing to me, ohhh...


True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. It was help at number two for weeks, by Another Record.


Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to tell me what Another Record was.


Dave...





RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:09:46 -, Mark Kitching [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  This means nothing to me, ohhh...
 
 True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. 
 It was help at number two for weeks, by Another Record.
 
 Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to 
 tell me what Another Record was.
 
 Was it "Shaddap a yer Face"? Tragic!

It was indeed. I owe you a pint. Of course you'll have to come to the
meeting on Thursday to collect :)

(I'll have to remember that pop quizzes are a good way to force the
lurkers out of hiding :)

Dave...



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Neil Ford

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:00:57 +, James Powell 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[Vienna]

  This means nothing to me, ohhh...

True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. It was 
help at number two for weeks, by Another Record.

Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to tell me 
what Another Record was.

Shut uppa your face by Joe Dolca (spelling is probably wrong but I 
can't be arsed to trawl the web to check.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mark Kitching
Title: RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention






 
 Was it Shaddap a yer Face? Tragic!

It was indeed. I owe you a pint. Of course you'll have to come to the
meeting on Thursday to collect :)

(I'll have to remember that pop quizzes are a good way to force the
lurkers out of hiding :)

Dave...



Do any others watch those Top Ten blah programs on Ch4? I think I knew this 
due to watching the Top Ten Comedy records! Wow, I really must get out more.


Markk.


if you want to buy me a pint by proxy, send the cash to. :-)





Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Leon Brocard

Nathan Torkington sent the following bits through the ether:

 We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
 looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
 that you can think of?

Other than yapc::europe, which is currently looking like early august,
but as you know still a little unorganised, not much.

I'm getting a bit worried as to the large number of conferences I want
to go to this summer...

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Struan Donald

* at 17/01 07:03 -0500 Dave Cross said:
 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:00:57 +, James Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 [Vienna]
  
  This means nothing to me, ohhh...
 
 True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. It was help at number 
two for weeks, by Another Record.
 
 Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to tell me what Another 
Record was.

shuttupay face by joe dolce (approximately at any rate :)

struan



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:18:12 -, Mark Kitching [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[Joe Dolce]

 Do any others watch those Top Ten blah programs on Ch4? I think I 
 knew this due to watching the Top Ten Comedy records! Wow, I really 
 must get out more.

And there's me thinking that you must be an old git like me who 
remembers it happening :)

Everyone else was, of course, correct too. But Mark was fastest. I guess
this is an advantage of working somewhere where there's bugger all
work going on...

...or maybe Mark's working on a project that was _so_ designed that
he has spare time to spend reading emails the second they arrive :)

Dave...



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Philip Newton

Leon Brocard wrote:
 Nathan Torkington sent the following bits through the ether:
 
  We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
  looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
  that you can think of?
 
 Other than yapc::europe, which is currently looking like early august,
 but as you know still a little unorganised, not much.

Speaking of which, do you know whether the yapc::Europe::19101 organisers
are planning to resurrect the yapc-europe mailing list for dissemination of
propaganda^W^W^Wsending out information? Or maybe another mailing list?

Is there any info at all at this stage (e.g. venue, rough dates)?

Cheers,
Philip



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:00:57 +, James Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 [Vienna]
  
  This means nothing to me, ohhh...
 
 True pop fact: Vienna never made it to number one in the UK. It was help at number 
two for weeks, by Another Record.
 
 Pop quiz: A pint on Thursday night to the first person to tell me what Another 
Record was.

Agadoo.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dean S Wilson

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 11:08:41AM +, alex wrote:

 In my opinion London would be fine for an August conference.

 I don't know what the fuss is about, really.  London is not like
Paris in
 the summer.  We have a lot more parks.

 Perhaps September would be better, but hey.


I could go with September, if you go for before August the start of
July has a selection of stuff already in planning:

The summer Linux Developers' Conference Fri 29th June to Sun 1st July.

Linux Expo Weds 4th - Thurs 5th July in London.

LinuxTag Stuttgart (Germany) 5th-8th July 2001.

Also there is going to be a UKLISA in the second half of this year but
I'm not too sure of dates.

HTH
Dean

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED]

(I'll have to remember that pop quizzes are a good way to force the
lurkers out of hiding :)


Nope its the lure of free alcohol.

Dean
-- 
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Agadoo.

Forget it.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Apache, mod_perl, MySQL, Sybase hired gun for, well, hire
  -



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Piers Cawley

Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 10:58:25 +, Tony Bowden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:
   We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
   looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
  
  Depends on how quickly people can get back from Vancouver:
http://www.geekcruises.com/home/ss_home.html
 
 Now that _could_ be a major problem. Damian, MJD and Randal are all
 on that cruise.
 
 Dave...
 [who was just reading the brochure last night and contemplating going
 on it himself]

Do it. I did the first one and it was *enormously* good fun.

-- 
Piers




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Leon Brocard

Philip Newton sent the following bits through the ether:

 Is there any info at all at this stage (e.g. venue, rough dates)?

Once a venue has been found, things will start to happen. Give it a
couple of weeks.

Leon
-- 
Leon Brocard.http://www.astray.com/
yapc::Europehttp://yapc.org/Europe/

... All new improved Brocard, now with Template Toolkit!



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Neil Ford

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:18:12 -, Mark Kitching 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

[Joe Dolce]

  Do any others watch those Top Ten blah programs on Ch4? I think I
  knew this due to watching the Top Ten Comedy records! Wow, I really
  must get out more.

And there's me thinking that you must be an old git like me who
remembers it happening :)

Everyone else was, of course, correct too. But Mark was fastest. I guess
this is an advantage of working somewhere where there's bugger all
work going on...

On that basis I should have got there first :-)

"I go into the office, I don't go to work" - me, recently.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Jonathan Peterson

 all we'd need to do is hire some terrorists to take over the cruise
 ship and sale it across to london - of course someone should make
 sure we shoot the cook before the operation starts, oh and fire
 a couple of rounds into the birthday cake while your at it.


Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills
to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we
will drive it at full speed up the Thames and attempt to ram HMS Belfast.




RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Kieran Barry

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 12:18:12 -, Mark Kitching [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 [Joe Dolce]
 
  Do any others watch those Top Ten blah programs on Ch4? I think I 
  knew this due to watching the Top Ten Comedy records! Wow, I really 
  must get out more.
 
 And there's me thinking that you must be an old git like me who 
 remembers it happening :)
 
 Everyone else was, of course, correct too. But Mark was fastest. I guess
 this is an advantage of working somewhere where there's bugger all
 work going on...
 
I thought Joe Dolce was only number 1 for a week or so, to be knocked
off the top by Jealous Guy from Roxy Music. And poor old Vienna hung
about at number 2 for yonks.

Anyone remember what kept Sweet Dreams off number 1 in the States? Hint:
trick question.

Regards

Kieran




RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:15:01 + (GMT), Kieran Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 I thought Joe Dolce was only number 1 for a week or so, to be knocked
 off the top by Jealous Guy from Roxy Music. And poor old Vienna hung
 about at number 2 for yonks.

Hmm... you may be right. Anyone know a site that lists UK top tens
for the 1980s?

 Anyone remember what kept Sweet Dreams off number 1 in the States? 
 Hint: trick question.

Well, according to http://80s.koreamusic.net/billboard/1983.html
it made number one for one week on 3rd Sept 1983.

Dave...



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills
 to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we

don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that
james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots
used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM)
sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah

Greg - who is easily bought

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mike Wyer

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:

* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills
 to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we

don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that
james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots
used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM)
sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah

Psions are eminently capable of hacking- I use my Ericsson rebadged 5MX
as a pocketable terminal emulator at work- plugs straight into a serial
port with decent terminal support. Ideal for administering UPSs, remote
power control units, and machines with the system administrator shell
running on the serial port.

Cheers,
Mike
-- 
Mike Wyer [EMAIL PROTECTED] || "Woof?"
http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~mw ||  Gaspode the Wonder Dog
Work:  +44 020 7594 8440||
Mobile: +44 07879 697119||  ICQ: 43922064




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Mike Wyer ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote:
 
 * Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills
  to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we
 
 don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that
 james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots
 used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM)
 sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah
 
 Psions are eminently capable of hacking- I use my Ericsson rebadged 5MX
 as a pocketable terminal emulator at work- plugs straight into a serial
 port with decent terminal support. Ideal for administering UPSs, remote
 power control units, and machines with the system administrator shell
 running on the serial port.
 

the upcoming Nokia communicator, with the colour screen and the EPOC
operating system is what i'm waiting for. especially as it can now
download other EPOC programs to run on it. very nifty indeed, but
i would say that.

Greg 

(disclosure : Greg works for Symbian currently)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Neil Ford

* Jonathan Peterson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
  Also, as it is a modern cruise ship, we will use Grep's l33t hacking skills
  to gain control of all the automated systems from his Psion 5, whereupon we

don't get me started on PDA's being used to ``hack'' systems, e.g. that
james bond film where they use a CE device and i've seen palm pilots
used - now if it was EPOC say a nice R380 (with non-standard ROM)
sure, but PalmOS, CE .. nah

Greg - who is easily bought

Best use of a PDA does of course go to a movie that follows on from 
an earlier discussion, Under Seige 2 and the newton fax sending scene 
:-)

Then there's the Psion 3 being used to detonate a bomb is a movie 
who's name I can't remember but it features the same Mr Segal being 
killed in the first 10 minutes or so.

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Michael Stevens

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 03:28:40PM +, Neil Ford wrote:
 Then there's the Psion 3 being used to detonate a bomb is a movie 
 who's name I can't remember but it features the same Mr Segal being 
 killed in the first 10 minutes or so.

Executive Decision.

Michael



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Steve Mynott

Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:15:01 + (GMT), Kieran Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  I thought Joe Dolce was only number 1 for a week or so, to be knocked
  off the top by Jealous Guy from Roxy Music. And poor old Vienna hung
  about at number 2 for yonks.
 
 Hmm... you may be right. Anyone know a site that lists UK top tens
 for the 1980s?

I don't but there is a excellent book called something like the
"Guiness Book of Hit Singles".

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

i have great faith in fools -- self confidence my friends call it.
-- edgar allan poe



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Dave Cross

At 17 Jan 2001 15:54:31 +, Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  Anyone know a site that lists UK top tens for the 1980s?
 
 I don't but there is a excellent book called something like the
 "Guiness Book of Hit Singles".

Yeah. Great book. I should buy a copy. But new editions come out every
year and I just know that I'd end up buying every edition once I 
started.

This is just the kind of stuff that _should_ be on the web.

Dave...



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Neil Ford

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 03:28:40PM +, Neil Ford wrote:
  Then there's the Psion 3 being used to detonate a bomb is a movie
  who's name I can't remember but it features the same Mr Segal being
  killed in the first 10 minutes or so.

Executive Decision.

That's the sucker!

Neil.
-- 
Neil C. Ford
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.binky.ourshack.org



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Simon Wistow

Dave Cross wrote:
 
 Well, according to http://80s.koreamusic.net/billboard/1983.html
 it made number one for one week on 3rd Sept 1983.

Number ones on this day ..

5 years ago ..  Michael Jackson - 'Earth Song'
10  .. Iron Maiden - 'Take your daughter to the slaughter'
15  .. Pet Shop Boys  - ' West End Girls'
20  .. John Lennon - 'Imagine'
24  .. Queen - 'Bohemian Rapsody'

other people with birthdays on this day include Paul Young, Susanna
Hoffs (of the Bangles), Andy Rourke (bassist with the Smiths), Joan
Colins, Al Capone, Anne Bronte, Nevil Shute, Kid Rocks, Shabba Ranks,
Eartha Kitt, Ben Franklin and Muhammed Ali.

In 1946 the United Nations Security Council held its first meeting but
the Gulf War started today in 1991

On Jan 17th in 1995 ther San Fransico earthquake caused 20 billion
dollars of damage and exactly a year later more than 6000 people were
killed because of an earth quake in Kobe, Japan.

In 1997 a court in Ireland granted the first divorce in the Roman
Catholic country's history. 
 

Not that I have any special interest in today. Sure are a lot of earth
quakes though.

Simon
[barely able to focus on screen : liquid lunch++]



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Kieran Barry

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote:

 At Wed, 17 Jan 2001 14:15:01 + (GMT), Kieran Barry [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:
 
  I thought Joe Dolce was only number 1 for a week or so, to be knocked
  off the top by Jealous Guy from Roxy Music. And poor old Vienna hung
  about at number 2 for yonks.
 
 Hmm... you may be right. Anyone know a site that lists UK top tens
 for the 1980s?
 
  Anyone remember what kept Sweet Dreams off number 1 in the States? 
  Hint: trick question.
 
 Well, according to http://80s.koreamusic.net/billboard/1983.html
 it made number one for one week on 3rd Sept 1983.
 
Hmm. I seem to recall that Sweet Dreams got to number two while the
Police (Every Breath You Take) was at the top, then another mega-hit
(Beat It? C'mon Eileen?) came along as well. I obviouly blinked and
missed the week at the top.

Regards

Kieran




RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mike Jarvis

Gareth Harper wrote:

there are sites with all the no1's, but I don't know of any with all the
top tens,
theres probably one around, if not, start one ;)

Who's chart would you use?  I.E., who do you want to be sued by?  I don't
know about the UK, but Billboard (THE chart in the US) is very picky about
such things.

I don't think RR would let you do it either.  And with RR, you have to
decide if you want CHR/pop or CHR/rythmic.  And then you hit the problem
that CHR used to be one category.

Neither one of them has a searchable archive of charts on their websites.
Bastards.

10 years ago today, Vanilla Ice had the no. 1 album in the US.  MC Hammer
was no. 2.


--
Mike
(html email is icky)




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Tony Bowden

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 01:26:24PM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
 Who's chart would you use?  I.E., who do you want to be sued by?  I don't
 know about the UK, but Billboard (THE chart in the US) is very picky about
 such things.

They can't easily sue.

The information is factual. Factual information cannot be
copyrighted. Only the arrangement of it.

If you present the chart in a different format to how they did then
there's nothing they can do...

(ObDisclaimer: IANAL, although I have taken legal advice on this matter...)

Tony
-- 
-
 Tony Bowden | Belfast, NI | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.tmtm.com | www.blackstar.co.uk
 if more people were screaming then I could relax
-



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Roger Burton West

On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 08:34:21PM +, Tony Bowden wrote:

If you present the chart in a different format to how they did then
there's nothing they can do...

Take a look at http://www.bath.ac.uk/~bssnrw/getchart.html for a
differing viewpoint.

Roger



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mike Jarvis

Tony Bowden wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 17, 2001 at 01:26:24PM -0500, Mike Jarvis wrote:
  Who's chart would you use?  I.E., who do you want to be sued
 by?  I don't
  know about the UK, but Billboard (THE chart in the US) is very
 picky about
  such things.

 They can't easily sue.

 The information is factual. Factual information cannot be
 copyrighted. Only the arrangement of it.

Nope.  What is a chart?  Billboard or RR or whoever's view of what the most
popular songs in a given week were.  They all use different methodologies,
and are sort of an estimation as to what the popular songs are.

There is no "fact" of a song being no. 1.  It would be a stronger argument
with ratings, but Arbitron owns all of the research the ratings are based on
and are, if possible, more litigious than Billboard.

On a note remotely related to computers, Napster nemesis Metallica's bass
player quit.

"Due to private and personal reasons, and the physical damage that I have
done to myself over the years while playing the music that I love, I must
step away from the band," Newsted said in a statement.

--
mike




RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Wed, 17 Jan 2001, you wrote:

 Who's chart would you use?  I.E., who do you want to be sued by?  I don't
 know about the UK, but Billboard (THE chart in the US) is very picky about
 such things.

jsut do them as they do to you ...

(or indeed as some guy is doing to the football league right now) publish
a set of web pages for next weeks charts that include all possible
permutations of the current top 20 for NEXT WEEK .. explicitly state they
are copyright and permission is required to reproduce this original work
... then when next weeks top 10 comes out and Billboard publish a top
10 that matches one of your pages sue them blind... remove the all but 1
selected page from the site .. 

alternatively publish it under a GNU licence and then from this day
forward anyone who wants to publish a top 10 can publish a copy of of one
of your pages which being published a week ahead were there first and id
like to see Billboard say otherwise.

a guy is doing this to the football league (who sue people who publish
copies of the fixture lists without paying) .. hes published copies of
every possible combination of fixtures in advance of the draw and thereby
claims copyright on this original work. he then intends to promote a
'selected excerpt' from his original work after the draw, and sue the
football league if they infringe his copyright by publishing an identical
list.   hes obviously mad, but hey .. he might even win :)

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mike Jarvis

Robin Szemeti wrote:

 jsut do them as they do to you ...
snip the arsenal fan story

 ... then when next weeks top 10 comes out and Billboard publish a top
 10 that matches one of your pages sue them blind... remove the all but 1
 selected page from the site ..

The problem would be, you still couldn't post your top 10 as the Billboard
top 10.  And when Billboard published the results of their research, it
wouldn't be infringing on your list, even if the songs were the same.

There is absolutly nothing stopping you from publishing your own top 10
though.  You could draw the names out of a hat and have as much claim to
accuracy as anybody else.

If week after week you came up with the same results as Billboard, you
better have your methodolgy documented somewhere.


--
mike




RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 18 Jan 2001, you wrote:

 There is absolutly nothing stopping you from publishing your own top 10
 though.  You could draw the names out of a hat and have as much claim to
 accuracy as anybody else.
 
 If week after week you came up with the same results as Billboard, you
 better have your methodolgy documented somewhere.

and if I publish all the variants .. and each week Billboard 'copy' one
of my 'works of art' can I sue them ? :)

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!



RE: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-17 Thread Mike Jarvis

Robin Szemeti wrote:
 and if I publish all the variants .. and each week Billboard 'copy' one
 of my 'works of art' can I sue them ? :)

Did you label the variants as Billboard charts?  If not, they aren't
publishing the same thing.  A list of songs is not a chart.

--
mike




Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-16 Thread Andrew Bowman

From: "Nathan Torkington" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
 looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
 that you can think of?

You mean apart from the traditional British summer hols[1]? August is, in
some quarters at least, considered a non-month for the purposes of all sorts
of events - possibly even for an Open Source Convention :-)

Having said that, most London PM types aren't constrained by the likes of
school-age children, so will probably take holidays at better value times of
year...

In case it's of interest, Monday, August, 27th, 2001 is the summer bank
holiday (i.e. a public holiday) this year, at least according to
http://www.dti.gov.uk/er/bankhol.htm

HTH,

Andrew.

[1] What with us having such long vacations over here and all.





Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-16 Thread Nathan Torkington

Andrew Bowman writes:
 You mean apart from the traditional British summer hols[1]? August is, in
 some quarters at least, considered a non-month for the purposes of all sorts
 of events - possibly even for an Open Source Convention :-)

Bugger, we were afraid of that.  It's more than just Perl, it's for
a lot of Open Source (Python, Linux, MySQL, PHP, etc.)  What we really
need to know is: will our attendance from Europe suffer because it's
in August?

Thanks,

Nat



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-16 Thread David Cantrell

On Tue, Jan 16, 2001 at 02:54:50PM -0700, Nathan Torkington wrote:

 We're planning a London Open Source Convention.  The dates we're
 looking hard at now are August 20-23.  Are there any obvious clashes
 that you can think of?

Linuxbierwanderung 2001.  To be held in Belgium but with a large UK
contingent.  Date to be confirmed within the next couple of weeks, but
will almost certainly be a week somewhere between 19 Aug and 8 Sept.  It
would be *really* great - especially for intercontinental visitors - if
your con could be immediately before or after the LBW.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david

  Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-16 Thread Nathan Torkington

David Cantrell writes:
 Linuxbierwanderung 2001.  To be held in Belgium but with a large UK
 contingent.  Date to be confirmed within the next couple of weeks, but
 will almost certainly be a week somewhere between 19 Aug and 8 Sept.  It
 would be *really* great - especially for intercontinental visitors - if
 your con could be immediately before or after the LBW.

The Amsterdam YAPC folks have a bunch of venues they're looking at,
but only some have given them specific dates they're free.  The only
dates they've been told about are for the week before the London
OScon.  I hope the L16G 2001 doesn't clash with either.

As I said, though, we're REALLY worried about Europeans being on
vacation and unable to attend.  We don't know much about the
mysterious habits of this strange and noble race, and would appreciate
your guesses as to their actions: will our attendance be buggered[1]
because those on the Continong will be sunning their lily-white
bottoms in the south of France instead of getting lilier-white by
hanging out with other open source geeks?[2]

Nat
[1] not O'Reilly Official Wording[tm], of course
[2] there's an open sores joke to be made there, but I won't do it



Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-16 Thread Andrew Bowman

From: "Nathan Torkington" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Bugger, we were afraid of that.  It's more than just Perl, it's for
 a lot of Open Source (Python, Linux, MySQL, PHP, etc.)  What we really
 need to know is: will our attendance from Europe suffer because it's
 in August?

I imagine it will to some extent - but probably not too much. See what other
folk here think and ask around on some of the European (i.e. continental)
lists to see what they think. I know the Germans are quite keen on heading
en masse to southern Europe[1] in the summer.

Andrew.

[1] An improvement on their previous European excursions :-)





Re: Feelers for London Open Source Convention

2001-01-16 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Tue, 16 Jan 2001, you wrote:

 Bugger, we were afraid of that.  It's more than just Perl, it's for
 a lot of Open Source (Python, Linux, MySQL, PHP, etc.)  What we really
 need to know is: will our attendance from Europe suffer because it's
 in August?

I suspect most UK based families would rather not be in London in August
... other EU countries may still be in holiday mode and London will be a
nice break for them and their families. Since the majority of
UK programmers work in London they are less than likely to want to attend
a conference there in peak holiday season IMHO .. Orlando would be a nice
alternative tho' ..  :)


-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said "requires windows 95 or better"
So I installed Linux!