Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-30 Thread Lucy McWilliam


On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, David Cantrell wrote:

 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

  Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths.

 Hmmph.  Goths wouldn't know good beer if it grabbed them by the goolies
 and swung them round over its head whilst shouting I'm good beer, I'm
 good beer, and if you disagree I'll cut your head off and shit down your
 neck

Well, I'm affiliated with both gothdom and CAMRA, so just call me the
exception that proves the rule (or summat equally pretentious).  'Course,
it would help if I could spell Egyptian.


L.
Cambridge Beer Festival, 21-26 May, Jesus Green
http://www.cam.net.uk/camra/2001/28cbf.html




Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-29 Thread Chris Ball

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 OK, so I was just being nosy - as opposed to being in the position of
 offering a job - and noticed Alex is: a) younger than me (makes a
 change!), and b) went to UMIST.  Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce
 about all things Manc on a London.pm list?!

Absolutely. It'd be terribly inconsiderate. :hides his .signature. 

~~C.

-- 
Chris Ball.
Department of Computation, UMIST, England.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] || http://printf.net/
finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- 





Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-29 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Chris Ball wrote:

 [ I sent this earlier on, but it doesn't seem to have gone through -
   I'm trying again using the address I subscribed with, but I'm sure
   I've used a non-subscription address before. Are postings subscriber
   only ..? ]

Yes. postings are subscriber only - It's just the moderation fairy tries
to make things appear as seemless as possible :O

/J\




Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-29 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Alex Page wrote:

 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:47:47PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:56:22PM -0400, Alex Page wrote:

   Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic

  What is this off-topic you speak of?  Is it a custom of your people?

 Yeah... I'm on this mailing list called goats-fans, for fans of Goats:
 the Comic Strip (http://www.goats.com - NOW!), and flaming and off-topic
 posting leads to the moderators kicking your arse severly.


Yeah.  I think I should cop more praise for being such a sweet, lovely
forgiving moderator :)

/J\




Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-29 Thread Greg McCarroll

* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote:
 
 Yeah.  I think I should cop more praise for being such a sweet, lovely
 forgiving moderator :)
 

hey you'd get drinks for it, if you ever turned up that is ;-)

-- 
Greg McCarroll  http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-28 Thread David H. Adler

On Sat, Apr 28, 2001 at 06:53:14AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 
   What is this off-topic you speak of?  Is it a custom of your people?
  
  Yeah... I'm on this mailing list called goats-fans, for fans of Goats:
  the Comic Strip (http://www.goats.com - NOW!), and flaming and off-topic
  posting leads to the moderators kicking your arse severly.
 
 Excellent! ... Men, I believe we have a new mission.  How do we sign up
 for htis so-called 'on topic' list ?

Oh god, no... I have enough trouble keeping up with the two lists
separately...

Besides, alex is lying.  No, really...

dha
-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
[Insert Angus Prune Tune here]



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Roger Burton West

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up
a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad
threading.

Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good...

Roger



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Jonathan Peterson



Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
 now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats
 all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think
 that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and
 

No, no, no, that's _not_ all it is. IE is a set of distributed objects
that between them handle those things that you might want to do related
to HTTP and the rendering of HTML and assocciated technologies. That's
MUCH more than just a browser.

Once IE is installed on your system it becomes relatively simple to make
an excel spreadsheet where some cell has a value that is the result of
an HTTP request. This is not something AFAIK that Opera or Netscape do.
I think Mozilla is trying to be more like this, but I never use it so I
don't know. I do know that Mozilla appears to be just as 'lightweight'
as IE.

The tragedy is that all these great objects and classes tend to be only
accessible from inside stuff like VBA or VB or MSVC++. Maybe Perl's DCOM
bindings on Win32 are robust enough now that I can use perl to script
the IE objects, I don't know.

Jon, who is now at a company that uses Netscape Messenger as the
corporate mail client. Weep. But at least they keep ports 22 and 23 open
on the firewall. Yay.



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote:

 Well, if you're daft enough to install Turdpoke you deserve all you
 get. 

In my defence your Honour, this relates to the BL[1] period of my life and
I am now a reformed character.  I have worshipped at The Shrine Of The
Penguin for many moons now,  broken bread with Linus and I won't be going
back to the cult od Gates[2].


[1] Before Linux
[2] Well .. unless the client is paying .. hey .. I'am a contractor after
all ..
-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:41:00AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 [ and don't even ask me about the time Demon distributed some pox ridden
 disk with IE4.1 on it ..'err I just installed the latest version of
 Turnpike and seem to have inherited IE4 .. how do I get rid of it as its
 screwed my desktop and folders' 'easy sir just do remove-programs etc'
 'err hello .. Ive done that and my desktop is *still* screwed .. my
 folders appear as some sort of poxy browser with a stop button and
 back-forward buttons and they didn't before and I dont want them' ' err
 sorry sir .. it does some things to the kernel that can't be removed' 
 now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats
 all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think
 that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and
 unnecessarily predjudiced against it. ]

Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little
prank.  Have you been sent a green CD, sir?  We'd better send you an
orange one to recover your system...  It went on for *weeks*.

-Dom (always preferred green anyway)



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 09:23:16AM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 Robin Szemeti wrote:
  
  now I am absolutely totally 100% certain that some web browser (and thats
  all it is) should *not* mess around with the way I view folders. I think
  that was a turning point for me and my judgement is probably clouded and
 
 No, no, no, that's _not_ all it is. IE is a set of distributed objects
 that between them handle those things that you might want to do related
 to HTTP and the rendering of HTML and assocciated technologies. That's
 MUCH more than just a browser.
 
 Once IE is installed on your system it becomes relatively simple to make
 an excel spreadsheet where some cell has a value that is the result of
 an HTTP request. This is not something AFAIK that Opera or Netscape do.
 I think Mozilla is trying to be more like this, but I never use it so I
 don't know. I do know that Mozilla appears to be just as 'lightweight'
 as IE.
 
 The tragedy is that all these great objects and classes tend to be only
 accessible from inside stuff like VBA or VB or MSVC++. Maybe Perl's DCOM
 bindings on Win32 are robust enough now that I can use perl to script
 the IE objects, I don't know.

It's pretty easily manageable from within Python, last time that I
looked, and it should work pretty well inside Perl, too.

Mozilla will be nice and able to do all this, it's basically reimplemented
COM as XPCOM for its own use.  Which is all very well and good, but
there's no easy way (yet) to get at XPCOM from outside of mozilla.
ActiveState are working on this, though and there was a recent
announcement about Perl/Python XPCOM integration being available as a
preview release.  Probably worth checking out...

-Dom



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 
 Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little
 prank.  Have you been sent a green CD, sir?  We'd better send you an
 orange one to recover your system...  It went on for *weeks*.

umm .. I went for the 'format from the ground up' method and took it as
an opportunity to rod the thing out ;) 

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:21:35AM +0100, Roger Burton West wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up
 a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad
 threading.
 
 Excellent reason to use a proxy. Junkbuster's good...

Junkbuster++

I don't use it for busting junk, but because I can quickly and easily change
its settings with a shell script, instead of having to fuck around in
Netscape's menus to change proxies.  I really just use it as a mere proxy,
either going straight to the rest of the net or via ssh port forwarding to
another proxy elsewhere.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Lucy McWilliam


On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Alex Page wrote:

 Yeah, I was redoing my CV the other day (it's at 
http://www.cpio.org/~grimoire/cv.html if you
 want to employ me...)

OK, so I was just being nosy - as opposed to being in the position of
offering a job - and noticed Alex is: a) younger than me (makes a
change!), and b) went to UMIST.  Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce
about all things Manc on a London.pm list?!


L.
BSc(Hons) Anatomical Sciences
University of Manchester
Graduated 1999




Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Rob Partington

In message [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Lucy McWilliam [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce
 about all things Manc on a London.pm list?!

Given the number of people I've seen from Manchester Uni at the
technical meetings, probably not...
-- 
rob partington % [EMAIL PROTECTED] % http://lynx.browser.org/
Bsc(Hons) Computer Science
University of Manchester
Graduated 1995



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Barbie

From: Chris Heathcote [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 on 27/4/01 11:08 am, Rob Partington wrote:

  about all things Manc on a London.pm list?!
 
  Given the number of people I've seen from Manchester Uni at the
  technical meetings, probably not...

 Y'see I was a Salford problem kid...

I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe. Shame about the
footballs teams though.

Barbie.





Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Chris Ball

[ I sent this earlier on, but it doesn't seem to have gone through -
  I'm trying again using the address I subscribed with, but I'm sure
  I've used a non-subscription address before. Are postings subscriber
  only ..? ]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:
 OK, so I was just being nosy - as opposed to being in the position of
 offering a job - and noticed Alex is: a) younger than me (makes a
 change!), and b) went to UMIST.  Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce
 about all things Manc on a London.pm list?!

Absolutely. It'd be terribly inconsiderate. :hides his .signature. 

~C.

-- 
Chris Ball.
Department of Computation, UMIST, England.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] || http://printf.net/
finger: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- 



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Martin Ling

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 
 Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little
 prank.  Have you been sent a green CD, sir?  We'd better send you an
 orange one to recover your system...  It went on for *weeks*.

I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have
dragged it on for a few more... 


Martin



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
  
  Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little
  prank.  Have you been sent a green CD, sir?  We'd better send you an
  orange one to recover your system...  It went on for *weeks*.
 
 I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have
 dragged it on for a few more... 

umm 94?95?

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 01:59:53PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, you wrote:
  On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 10:11:40AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote:
   
   Ho ho, you should have heard the stick that support got from that little
   prank.  Have you been sent a green CD, sir?  We'd better send you an
   orange one to recover your system...  It went on for *weeks*.
  
  I take it this pre-dated Matrix, or the red/blue pill jokes would have
  dragged it on for a few more... 
 
 umm 94?95?

More likely late 96 early 97.

-Dom



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Philip Newton

Chris Ball wrote:
   Are postings subscriber only ..? ]

As far as I know, yes; Jonathan Stowe has to hand-approve non-subscriber
postings for them to make it to the list.

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Jonathan Peterson



Philip Newton wrote:
 
 Chris Ball wrote:
Are postings subscriber only ..? ]

Subscriber not even, more like. I bet this email never makes it to the
list for a start.

I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here?

Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 Philip Newton wrote:
  Chris Ball wrote:
 Are postings subscriber only ..? ]
 
 Subscriber not even, more like. I bet this email never makes it to the
 list for a start.
 
 I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here?

Well, it is based on Python, which might cause a few stirrings around
here...

-Dom



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Philip Newton

Dominic Mitchell wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
  I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here?
 
 Well, it is based on Python, which might cause a few stirrings around
 here...

You think the Perl community is proud of the majordomo code?

Cheers,
Philip
-- 
Philip Newton [EMAIL PROTECTED]
All opinions are my own, not my employer's.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:03:46AM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

 Hmmm, would it be bad form to reminisce
 about all things Manc on a London.pm list?!

Given that I didn't learn perl until after I graduated, and Buffy
isn't Manc-specific, then probably :-)

Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite
and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy
probably won't interest most of london.pm

Alex
-- 
I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you
 can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth



Re: Good Accountants (?)

2001-04-27 Thread will

- Original Message - 
From: Alex Page [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 11:32 AM
Subject: Re: Good Accountants

 Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite
 and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy
 probably won't interest most of london.pm

Cheap bottles of calsberg and rage against the machine...

There isn't anywhre quite like it in london - sigh




Re: Good Accountants (?)

2001-04-27 Thread Jonathan Peterson


  Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite
  and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy
  probably won't interest most of london.pm

How can you fall over doing one step forward one step backward with your
arms out for balance?
Or was it the one where you hold you arms over your head in an
impression of someone trying to get out of a too-tight jumper in slow
motion?

-- 
Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread Lucy McWilliam


On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, will wrote:

Alex page wrote:

  Hazy tales of drunken nights in Jilly's drinking too much snakebite
  and falling over while trying to dance to the Sisters of Mercy
  probably won't interest most of london.pm

 Cheap bottles of calsberg and rage against the machine...
 There isn't anywhre quite like it in london - sigh

Ack - another one.
On topic - how come all the decent jobs are dahn sarf?
Off topic - have you tried Gossips, Slimelight or the 'Leccy Ballroom?


L.
Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths.




Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

 On topic - how come all the decent jobs are dahn sarf?

Dunno. A lot of my coursemates ended up working for a Manchester-based IT
company (Lantara?) doing network admin and web coding, but the pay wasn't
great and I'd had a better offer from Nominet, hence my move to Oxfrod.

Another friend ended up working for Oldham council doing C++ coding on
contract, and seems fairly happy with his lot.

Maybe it's because everyone in Manchester and Oop North is a horrible
luddite who doesn't see the point of this new-fangled Interweb doofer...
or, like the lecturers at UMIST, don't see why you need any languages other
than FORTH, LISP and ADA... :-)

 Off topic - have you tried Gossips, Slimelight or the 'Leccy Ballroom?

Gossips: Depends on the night. Tenebrae (once a month IIRC, Fridays) is a
very good, well-populated goth night, more trad than anything else. Club
Noir (every thursday) is a darkwave / synthpop / EBM night with piss-poor
attendance and hence no atmoshphere. Malice (every? Tuesday) is another
tradgoth night with some great playlists. The club itself is nice, but the
bar is HELLISHLY expensive.

Slimelight: Been a member for the last 3 or 4 years. The club venue is good,
the music on the downstairs floor is OK, and the top venue is hard tecnho crap.
I basically go there to see my friends rather than for any other reason. Going
there tomorrow, actually - I'll be the one in black *g*

Electric Ballroom: Only ever been to their Full Tilt night (every Friday).
Far too much skate-punk, nu-metal and dance music for my liking, and the
atmosphere is a lot more on-edge and unfriendly than most of the clubs I
frequent. Still, if you're drunk enough not to care, then there's enough loose
women in tight PVC to make it worth attending...

Alex

ObLondon.pmRef: The Bronze looks like a really good club!
-- 
I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you
 can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread Jonathan Peterson

 
 Slimelight: Been a member for the last 3 or 4 years. The club venue is good,
 the music on the downstairs floor is OK, and the top venue is hard tecnho crap.
 I basically go there to see my friends rather than for any other reason. Going
 there tomorrow, actually - I'll be the one in black *g*

I thought it closed down, actually. Is it still bring your own booze? Do
they still have a silly entrance exam?


-- 
Jonathan Peterson
Technical Manager, Unified Ltd, 020 7383 6092
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread David H. Adler

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote:
 
 I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe.

Ahem.

I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at
http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-)

dha

-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
Oh, the irony.
- Abigail



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:30:20PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 I blame majordomo, when's that mailman thing getting here?

Actually that's my fault I said I'd look into it about a year ago (or
so it feels). I'll do it this weekend. As to whether penderel gets used
for this mailing list is something someone else would decide...

Paul



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that
 don't use IE - that's kinda silly.

On a random band's site that number is more like, per hits:

3959719 IE
 662895 Netscape
10 the rest

It's a pity, but it's life.

(And Barclays lets you use NS)

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading
  IYSWIM ...
 
 No it doesn't. It has almost no clue about stylesheets at all. Have you
 ever developed a CSS site for Netscape? And got it to work in anything
 like a sensible timeframe?

Yes, I did. It needs tuning but it's pretty much there.

*snip*

 Hmm, IE does stop almost immediately. THe Mac version in OS X requires
 a couple of presses but it's pretty well behaved otherwise (when it's
 not crashing or preventing me from copying the address line to the
 clipboard, bah). I've actually had more trouble getting Netscape to
 stop, YMMV, etc.

NS's DNS handling is the suckiest. Blocks bloody everything.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Good Accountants (?)

2001-04-27 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:15PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 How can you fall over doing one step forward one step backward with your
 arms out for balance?
 Or was it the one where you hold you arms over your head in an
 impression of someone trying to get out of a too-tight jumper in slow
 motion?

Actually, in Manchester, one traditionally dances to the Sisters either
with a four-way country reel, or the Can-Can. Sobriety is not an option :-)

Alex
-- 
I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you
 can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Simon Cozens

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Alex Page wrote:
 Blimey, there's an Oxford perl mongers! You mean I'm not the
 only perl coder in this city?!?

No.

-- 
I find that anthropomorphism really doesn't help me with a place full 
of bugs. -- Megahal (trained on asr), 1998-11-06



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread Simon Cozens

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 11:00:40PM +0100, Simon Cozens wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:55:06PM -0400, Alex Page wrote:
  Blimey, there's an Oxford perl mongers! You mean I'm not the
  only perl coder in this city?!?
 No.

By which I mean, yes, you're not. And, of course, we've got Malcolm
Beattie, who ranks as one of Perl's minor dieties.

-- 
Will your long-winded speeches never end?
What ails you that you keep on arguing?
-- Job 16:3



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 05:50:50PM +0100, Lucy McWilliam wrote:

 Long dark hair, ankhs and beer - the Egyptions were the original goths.

Hmmph.  Goths wouldn't know good beer if it grabbed them by the goolies
and swung them round over its head whilst shouting I'm good beer, I'm
good beer, and if you disagree I'll cut your head off and shit down your
neck

Anyway, what the Egyptians brewed was barely recognisable as beer.

-- 
David Cantrell, Drunk, and blaming Earle off of (void).



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-27 Thread David Cantrell

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 02:26:04PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 12:25:23PM +0100, Barbie wrote:
  
  I always knew Manchester was the centre of the Universe.
 
 Ahem.
 
 I suggest you go look at the entry for NY.pm at
 http://www.pm.org/groups/north_america.shtml :-)

Yes yes, that's OK.  We'll permit the colonials to have their little
delusions.

We all know that The Bronze is the centre of the universe.

-- 
David Cantrell | Not particularly a Biffy fan at all | Gimme Willow

Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
  operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:22:50PM +0100, Jonathan Peterson wrote:

 I thought it closed down, actually. Is it still bring your own booze? Do
 they still have a silly entrance exam?

Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic, especially while
Dave the Goth is on sabbatical, so...

No, sort of, no.

Alex
-- 
I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you
 can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread David H. Adler

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:56:22PM -0400, Alex Page wrote:
 
 Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic

What is this off-topic you speak of?  Is it a custom of your people?

:-)

-- 
David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/
My theory is that his ignorance clouded his poor judgement.
- Alice, in Dilbert's office



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread Alex Page

On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 07:47:47PM -0400, David H. Adler wrote:
 On Fri, Apr 27, 2001 at 06:56:22PM -0400, Alex Page wrote:

  Hmm, I'm feeling like this is getting waaay too off-topic

 What is this off-topic you speak of?  Is it a custom of your people?

Yeah... I'm on this mailing list called goats-fans, for fans of Goats:
the Comic Strip (http://www.goats.com - NOW!), and flaming and off-topic
posting leads to the moderators kicking your arse severly.

Alex
-- 
I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you
 can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth



Re: Migrating South (was Good Accountants)

2001-04-27 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Sat, 28 Apr 2001, you wrote:

  What is this off-topic you speak of?  Is it a custom of your people?
 
 Yeah... I'm on this mailing list called goats-fans, for fans of Goats:
 the Comic Strip (http://www.goats.com - NOW!), and flaming and off-topic
 posting leads to the moderators kicking your arse severly.

Excellent! ... Men, I believe we have a new mission.  How do we sign up
for htis so-called 'on topic' list ?

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Gareth Harper

Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I
was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who
was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited to
much larger companies.

Thanks
Gareth Harper




Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robert Shiels

Where do you live?

DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see
them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company
for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to
me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-)

Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other
offices around Surrey.

On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?

--
Robert


- Original Message -
From: Gareth Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09
Subject: Good Accountants


 Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I
 was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who
 was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited
to
 much larger companies.

 Thanks
 Gareth Harper







Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 Where do you live?
 
 DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see
 them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company
 for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to
 me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-)

sound like a 'contractors accountant' .. mine (Lowson Ward in Birmingham)
do nothing other than accounting for contractors and know all the
relevant bits. Very often a 'general' accountant doesn't seem to know all
the little wrinkles that one who specialises in contractors does. Well
worth getting the right sort.

 Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other
 offices around Surrey.
 
 On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?

Flemings Premier Banking
01708 713317

basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay
interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone
service and all that stuff.
most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to.
I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors.

 
 --
 Robert
 
 
 - Original Message -
 From: Gareth Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09
 Subject: Good Accountants
 
 
  Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I
  was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who
  was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited
 to
  much larger companies.
 
  Thanks
  Gareth Harper
 
 
 
-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Greg Cope

Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
  Where do you live?
 
  DJ Adams recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see
  them last night for the first time. They are going to set up my new company
  for me too. They like IT contractors, and the partner I met with talked to
  me for about 30 minutes on ways to avoid IR35 :-)
 
 sound like a 'contractors accountant' .. mine (Lowson Ward in Birmingham)
 do nothing other than accounting for contractors and know all the
 relevant bits. Very often a 'general' accountant doesn't seem to know all
 the little wrinkles that one who specialises in contractors does. Well
 worth getting the right sort.
 
  Very professional, I like them so far. Based in Kingston and have other
  offices around Surrey.
 
  On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?
 
 Flemings Premier Banking
 01708 713317
 
 basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay
 interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone
 service and all that stuff.
 most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to.
 I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors.
 

+1

the service I've found to be excellent, they call you sir on the phone
and sound like they mean it, quite shocking these day's.

Greg


 
  --
  Robert
 
 
  - Original Message -
  From: Gareth Harper [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Sent: 26 April 2001 09:09
  Subject: Good Accountants
 
 
   Can any of you contractor types recoomend a good accountant, as the one I
   was using (a friend of the family) suggested that I use an accountant who
   was more familiar with the IT contracting business, as he was more suited
  to
   much larger companies.
  
   Thanks
   Gareth Harper
  
  
  
 --
 Robin Szemeti
 
 The box said requires windows 95 or better
 So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Dave Hodgkinson

Robert Shiels [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?

Oxymoron.

I went with Barclays because they gave 12 months free banking and
could group the online banking with my personal accounts.

-- 
Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org
Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star   http://www.deep-purple.com
  Interim CTO, web server farms, technical strategy
   



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robert Shiels

From: Robin Szemeti [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
  recommended Menzies (www.menzies.co.uk) to me, and I went to see

  On a similar point, can anyone recommend a good business bank account?

 Flemings Premier Banking
 01708 713317
 basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay
 interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone
 service and all that stuff.
 most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to.
 I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors.

Interesting. Flemings was actually recommended to me by Menzies last night.
So my accountant is clueful on this too, which is encouraging. Thanks.

/Robert




Online Banking (was: Re: Good Accountants)

2001-04-26 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:49:34AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
 I went with Barclays because they gave 12 months free banking and
 could group the online banking with my personal accounts.

On a side issue, do you know of any online banks that allow personal
accounts to download historical data?  I spent quite a while on Saturday
writing scripts to download statement data from lloydstsb.co.uk and then
discovered that it only went back about 2 statements.  Upon ring them up,
I was told that they were planning to introduce a feature that would let
you go back 4 or 5 statements or something equally pathetic.  *sigh*.

-Dom




Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:

  Flemings Premier Banking
  01708 713317
  
  basically free for contractors (up to 20 cheques a month) and pay
  interest. I got several hundred quid in intrest last year. Telephone
  service and all that stuff.
  most impressed .. and I do have other business acounts to comapre it to.
  I would heartily recommend them. They are widely used by contractors.
  
 
 +1
 
 the service I've found to be excellent, they call you sir on the phone
 and sound like they mean it, quite shocking these day's.

yup .. unlike most banks they seem to reallise that they are privileged
to be looking after your money for you. 

http://www.flemingbank.com/

crap website, but I think it sums em up.
-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
  http://www.flemingbank.com/
  
  crap website, but I think it sums em up.
 
 Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
 whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
 manifest incompetence.

well apart from a crap website, they are a good very bank ...  personally
I'd rather they put their efforts into banking rather than web design ...
its just a fad after all.

Egg: have a good website .. and service at least as good as oh .. I
dunno .. BT?. .. easily.  The big diffrence is: when they do eventually
answer the phone they charge you 2.50. BT at least try and sell you
something before slapping a charge on.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:39:45AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 Flemings Premier Banking
 01708 713317

God help you if you put your company into dormancy however. Then they
get really arsey since you're not depositing huge amounts of cash into
it any more.

They unilaterally decided to close my account a few months back
effectively ruining my health insurance policy and delaying payments
to my accountants. The only way (at least with HSBC) of setting up a
new business acct is from a director or company secretary so I have
had to find one of those and send form 288a flying across the atlantic.

flemings--,

Paul



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 06:52:59PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 
  http://www.flemingbank.com/
  
  crap website, but I think it sums em up.
 
 Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
 whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
 manifest incompetence.

And [EMAIL PROTECTED] bounces.  Oh dear.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 07:13:50PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
  On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  
   http://www.flemingbank.com/
   
   crap website, but I think it sums em up.
  
  Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
  whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
  manifest incompetence.
 
 well apart from a crap website, they are a good very bank ...  personally
 I'd rather they put their efforts into banking rather than web design ...
 its just a fad after all.

Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that
don't use IE - that's kinda silly.  And unprofessional.  Sure, the bank
no doubt subcontracted the work to some numijahors, but that they accepted
and launched it like that does raise concerns about their quality control.

I did go on to look at it using IE, for I know that first impressions can
be misleading, and the site still sucks - it's hard to find any way of
getting feedback to them electronically, for example - but if using IE, it
doesn't suck much more than any other corporate site.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 09:02:48PM +0100, David Cantrell wrote:
 Yeah, but only testing it on one browser, ignoring the - what, 30%? - that
 don't use IE - that's kinda silly.  And unprofessional.  Sure, the bank

Anything that displays in IE will display fine in Opera. Mozilla
is OK.  Netscape 4.x deserves to have sites intentionally break it
(ooh, tricky, miss a closing table tag!) because it is shit  must die.

 I did go on to look at it using IE, for I know that first impressions can

I share your pain. It has this utterly obnoxious browser-resize
to full screen even though it's designed for a fixed size viewing
area! Retards!

Try http://www.hsbc.co.uk/

Paul



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:

 Anything that displays in IE will display fine in Opera. Mozilla
 is OK.  Netscape 4.x deserves to have sites intentionally break it
 (ooh, tricky, miss a closing table tag!) because it is shit  must die.

depends dunnit ...

on the one hand i _almost_ like IE as it displays images as they load and
doesn't wait unitl it has em all b4 showing you the page (unless width
and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it
handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 OTOH its so far from being
standards compliant it must die.  its bloatware taken to new levels. what
is it? 75mb+ .. for a web browser .. ? and thats even though theyve
hidden half of it in whats laughingly reffered to as a kernel!

I like nutscrape for setting stuff up with because it is a bit picky ...
it does fall over on errors and thats what you want for quick 'almost
right on the first pass' stuff .. then you feed it through
validator.w3c.org and its done innit. What would be nice would be a
nutscrape-alike that put colored blobs or somesuch where errors were..
with hyperlinks to details of the error ... ;)

Back in the days when I had a windows PC I had Opera 3.x .. it was great
.. light and fast, tables were a 'bit odd' but I liked it.  I tried the
Linux beta but it had a todo list that went 'doesn't display text, or
pictures. backround doesn't work yet. Can't load from network' or some
equally trivial things .. that was 1 year ago .. maybe its time to
revisit.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:04:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 depends dunnit ...

Not really, Netscape 4.x sucks. No two ways about it.

 and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it
 handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 OTOH its so far from being

You mean it handles them at all. CSS in Netscape is so bad as to be a
joke. I mean, come on -- this is a *1996* invention!! One of the reasons
the web still sucks is 'cos of f**king Netscape and no-CSS.

 standards compliant it must die.  its bloatware taken to new levels. what
 is it? 75mb+ .. for a web browser .. ?

No, silly, it's part of the operating system :-)

But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue?
That's about 20p.

 I like nutscrape for setting stuff up with because it is a bit picky ...

Use a validator rather than a broken HTML parser.

 it does fall over on errors and thats what you want for quick 'almost
 right on the first pass' stuff .. then you feed it through

No you don't. You want a proper validator built right into your editor
(see: HomeSite)

 nutscrape-alike that put colored blobs or somesuch where errors were..
 with hyperlinks to details of the error ... ;)

See above :-)

 Linux beta but it had a todo list that went 'doesn't display text, or
 pictures. backround doesn't work yet. Can't load from network' or some
 equally trivial things .. that was 1 year ago .. maybe its time to
 revisit.

It's actually usable now I hear. Opera on Windows is great!

Paul



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Chris Devers

At 10:04 PM 2001.04.26 +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
What would be nice would be a nutscrape-alike that put colored blobs or
somesuch where errors were.. with hyperlinks to details of the error ... ;)

Starting point: Using CSS as a Diagnostic Tool
http://www.oreillynet.com/pub/a/network/2000/07/21/magazine/css_tool.html

   [...] stylesheets can be used to:
 ·  See exactly how tables are structured 
 ·  Figure out how table cells are aligned 
 ·  Quickly see which images on a page still need ALT text 
 ·  Point out where you still have FONT tags lurking in your markup 
 ·  Expose the overall page structure

'course you need a newer browser for it to work as advertised, but it seems to me like 
a clever solution to the problem...




--
Chris Devers [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:20:35PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
 On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
  But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue?
  That's about 20p.
 
 Where do you get sensible disk (including backup) that cheap? We'd all
 like to know...

Sorry, my mistake, 14p. 80GB for $216 + $2 for a hacksaw. Cut into
a little over a thousand pieces. Hand out at parties.

You backup your copy of IE? LOL

Paul



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Matthew Byng-Maddick

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:20:35PM +0100, Matthew Byng-Maddick wrote:
  On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, Paul Makepeace wrote:
   But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue?
   That's about 20p.
  Where do you get sensible disk (including backup) that cheap? We'd all
  like to know...
 Sorry, my mistake, 14p. 80GB for $216 + $2 for a hacksaw. Cut into
 a little over a thousand pieces. Hand out at parties.
 You backup your copy of IE? LOL

Ghost?

*I* don't have IE.

MBM

-- 
Matthew Byng-Maddick  [EMAIL PROTECTED] +44 20  8980 5714  (Home)
http://colondot.net/ +44 7956 613942  (Mobile)
perl -e '$i=sub{length($_[0])-1};$_= \n.rekcah lreP rehtona tsuJ ;while(
$i($_)){print unpack xx$i($_).a1, $_ ;$_=unpacka.$i($_),$_}print'




Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Paul Makepeace

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:33:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
 well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading
 IYSWIM ...

No it doesn't. It has almost no clue about stylesheets at all. Have you
ever developed a CSS site for Netscape? And got it to work in anything
like a sensible timeframe?

 I don't care tuppence about 75mb of disc space .. its the 'half of all
 your available memory and most of your processor' that does my head in.

You're right, that rampant hyperbole is really convincing me :-)
None of my IE sessions are consuming more than a 1% of CPU. When they do
use CPU it's hardly for long.

Why are people complaining about RAM  CPU? It is *sooo* cheap and will
get cheaper  faster yet.

 We are talking about displaying a few words and pictures on a screen not

Right, and compilers are just turn .c files into something you can
run. How hard can that be?

 bloated. Opera proves that. I do not require my web browser to do any of
 the following: run active-X,  Flash, any form of streaming video. it

It doesn't, that's what plugins are for. It just do happens
that millions of people like to watch Flash  movies so they come
pre-bundled. I mean, why draw the line there? Toss out images and other
ghastly things like ability to work with handicapped people, etc, etc.

 should never, ever attempt to download anything on its own, install
 anything or upgrade anything. ever. at all. ever. When I hit the stop
 button it is because i want it to stop. dead. now. I do not want it to
 continue what its doing because it thinks it knows best. it must stop

Hmm, IE does stop almost immediately. THe Mac version in OS X requires
a couple of presses but it's pretty well behaved otherwise (when it's
not crashing or preventing me from copying the address line to the
clipboard, bah). I've actually had more trouble getting Netscape to
stop, YMMV, etc.

 loading the page NOW. IE fails many if not all of those test. I'm a bit
 of a browser luddite im afraid.

http://lynx.browser.org/

Paul



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Alex Page

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:04:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:

 on the one hand i _almost_ like IE as it displays images as they load and
 doesn't wait unitl it has em all b4 showing you the page (unless width
 and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it
 handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7

Yeah, I was redoing my CV the other day (it's at http://www.cpio.org/~grimoire/cv.html 
if you want to employ me...) and IE handled things very nicely. I'm not exactly using 
complicated CSS, but the fact that it worked at all surprised me.

The one thing that's really bugging me is the lack of support for paged media - I've 
got a very simple rule that says that you should avoid page-breaking after the 
employer's name / details (so you get at least one paragraph of the job description 
in), but have yet to find a browser that works for this.

Alex
-- 
I ask for so little. Just let me rule you, and you
 can have everything that you want. - Jareth, Labyrinth



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread David Cantrell

On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:31:31AM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:

 http://www.flemingbank.com/
 
 crap website, but I think it sums em up.

Yep, so crap that it gives nothing but a splash screen with no links on it
whatsoever.  If that sums them up, then I want nothing to do with such
manifest incompetence.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

   Rip, Mix, Burn, unless you're using our latest and greatest
 operating system which we couldn't be arsed to complete



Re: Good Accountants

2001-04-26 Thread Robin Szemeti

On Thu, 26 Apr 2001, you wrote:
 On Thu, Apr 26, 2001 at 10:04:36PM +0100, Robin Szemeti wrote:
  depends dunnit ...
 
 Not really, Netscape 4.x sucks. No two ways about it.
 
  and height tags) ..it doesnt care about missing /table tags, it
  handles tables and CSS somewhat better than 4.7 OTOH its so far from being
 
 You mean it handles them at all. CSS in Netscape is so bad as to be a
 joke. I mean, come on -- this is a *1996* invention!! One of the reasons
 the web still sucks is 'cos of f**king Netscape and no-CSS.

well .. it *does* handle them .. but ,,, errr .. sort of non cascading
IYSWIM ...
  

 But, how is it non compliant? And when was 75MB of diskspace an issue?
 That's about 20p.

I don't care tuppence about 75mb of disc space .. its the 'half of all
your available memory and most of your processor' that does my head in.
We are talking about displaying a few words and pictures on a screen not
running a spacecraft. Web browsers do NOT need to be that big and
bloated. Opera proves that. I do not require my web browser to do any of
the following: run active-X,  Flash, any form of streaming video. it
should never, ever attempt to download anything on its own, install
anything or upgrade anything. ever. at all. ever. When I hit the stop
button it is because i want it to stop. dead. now. I do not want it to
continue what its doing because it thinks it knows best. it must stop
loading the page NOW. IE fails many if not all of those test. I'm a bit
of a browser luddite im afraid.

  
  I like nutscrape for setting stuff up with because it is a bit picky ...
 
 Use a validator rather than a broken HTML parser.

Its not borken .. just 'picky' ;) 
 
  it does fall over on errors and thats what you want for quick 'almost
  right on the first pass' stuff .. then you feed it through
 
 No you don't. You want a proper validator built right into your editor
 (see: HomeSite)

umm .. ok .. i'll look


 It's actually usable now I hear. Opera on Windows is great!

opera on windows was the one thing that made windows even vaguely
tolerable .. but not that tolerable.

actually .. nutscrape under Linux annoys me when it insists on looking up
a hostname no matter how hard you click on the stop button .. bad
threading.

-- 
Robin Szemeti

The box said requires windows 95 or better
So I installed Linux!