UK programmers left-wing? was Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread Steve Mynott

Dave Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Take a look around you. This list, being representative of the Perl 
 community, tends towards the intelligent end of the spectrum. And from what 
 I've gathered from the conversations I've had with people here, the vast 
 majority of us tend towards the left[1].

I think you are being UK-centric here and falling for the old
programmer myth that since its possible to program computers it is
also possible to engineer people and the economy, although the
experience of the last twenty years would suggest otherwise.

Libertarianism seems more popular than socialism on the internet as as
a whole, at least, with many American programmers.

It's my distinct (and probably biased opinion) that the popularity of
UK socialism has in long term decline since at least the late 70s and
early 80s.

There are certainly far fewer left-wing bookshops now than twenty
years ago.  Most of the young seem now more interested in single
issues like animal rights, globalisation etc then traditional
socialism.

Blair will probably be elected next month of a platform which at least
in some ways resembles Thatcherism more than traditional socialism.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain;
as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality. --albert einstein



Re: UK programmers left-wing? was Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread Dominic Mitchell

On Mon, May 14, 2001 at 10:19:27AM +, Steve Mynott wrote:
 There are certainly far fewer left-wing bookshops now than twenty
 years ago.  Most of the young seem now more interested in single
 issues like animal rights, globalisation etc then traditional
 socialism.

Hey, that's just the young that get interested in anything other drugs
and playstations.

There's far fewer bookshops full stop.  Except for the chain bookstore
monsters.

-Dom



Re: UK programmers left-wing? was Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread Simon Wistow

Steve Mynott wrote:
 
 Libertarianism seems more popular than socialism on the internet as as
 a whole, at least, with many American programmers.

To counter Dave's left wing views (trolllhave you ever
noticed how left wingers tend to be less tolerant to the fact that their
views may be wrong than right wing people?/troll) I'd argue that
libertarianism/socialism is fine as a personal philosophy but doesn't
work in the broader, govermental scheme of things.

In a nutshell: people are bastards and will try and take advantage of a
situation where they're in power. 'Tis the Hawks and the Hares scenario.
The best form of government would be a benevolent dictator (c.f Piers
Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant which can both back up and completely
destroy my argument) . But they don't exist. 'Cos people suck.

[me deletes the rest of this thread because I read it before on another
mailing list and I said exactly the same thing then. And the time before
that on an entirely different list altogther.]



RE: UK programmers left-wing? was Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread Matthew Jones

 (trolllhave you ever
 noticed how left wingers tend to be less tolerant to the fact 
 that their views may be wrong than right wing people?/troll)

Ah, that's because we left-wingers *are* right, and also because secretly,
silently, you right-wingers know it, too. :P

-- 
matt
The (void) is that which stands right in the middle of this and That. 



Re: UK programmers left-wing? was Re: BOFHs requiring license

2001-05-14 Thread Steve Mynott

Matthew Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  (trolllhave you ever
  noticed how left wingers tend to be less tolerant to the fact 
  that their views may be wrong than right wing people?/troll)
 
 Ah, that's because we left-wingers *are* right, and also because secretly,
 silently, you right-wingers know it, too. :P

It's more likely the right-wingers (not that I really like that
term) have had phases of being left-wingers in the past and know _all_
about it.

-- 
1024/D9C69DF9 steve mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED]

mary had a little key - she kept it in escrow, and every thing that
mary said, the feds were sure to know.  -- sam simpson