Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-25 Thread Redvers Davies

 to delete the URL in a browser window and then paste. Being
 able to click it and then hit ^V is *much* nicer (in Windows)
 than this manual delete time wastage.

If you run enlightment as a windowmanager you can use the URL
epplet.  You simply highlight the URL (or a lump of text which contains
a URL) and click "www", "ftp" or "get".  WWW opens up a web browser,
ftp opens up an xterm with ftp running and connected and "get" runs
wwwget and saves the file in your local directory.

Red



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Robert Shiels

- Original Message -
From: "Mark Fowler" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 January 2001 11:19
Subject: Re: odd -w effect


  Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?

I've also had this problem with CGI scripts running under apache on Windows.

Keep the -w in the file, that's been my solution.

/Robert




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Philip Newton

Mark Fowler wrote:
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
 
 Unix might have a problem if you take the -w out using a windows based
 editor which will insert some nasty line terminator at the end of the
 lines and screw up the file.  That's what I normally find the 
 problem is when 'nix can't find the file.

That is, replacing \n by \r\n. As you can see in the error message:

   ": no such file or directory

which is undoubtedly short for qq("/usr/local/bin/perl\r": no such file or
directory) -- the carriage return causing the filename to be overwritten by
the rest of the error message.

Cheers,
Philip



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread jduncan

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:57:13PM +0100, Philip Newton wrote:
 Mark Fowler wrote:
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   Strange.  Does anyone have any suggestions?
  
  Unix might have a problem if you take the -w out using a windows based
  editor which will insert some nasty line terminator at the end of the
  lines and screw up the file.  That's what I normally find the 
  problem is when 'nix can't find the file.
 
 That is, replacing \n by \r\n. As you can see in the error message:
 
": no such file or directory
 
 which is undoubtedly short for qq("/usr/local/bin/perl\r": no such file or
 directory) -- the carriage return causing the filename to be overwritten by
 the rest of the error message.

Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
that some people use windows.

--james.

 PGP signature


Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 12:08:50 +, Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:04:33PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
  On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:37PM +, [EMAIL PROTECTED] typed:
  Got it -- something else to stick in the commit checks... grrr... I forgot
  that some people use windows.
  If only I could.
  Try using CVS when some people insist on editing with Windows...
 
 Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
 with unix line ending conventions...

And Xemacs. Seems to work fine with both Unix and DOS line endings, but
I haven't yet worked out how to change them.

Dave...



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:31:28PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
you see outside offices.

DD is vaguely useful sometimes. Just not when I'm editing text.

Anyone played much with PowerArchiver? Freeware WinZip clone. Given
how many unregistered copies are floating around...

R



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Michael Stevens

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:35:17PM -, Robert Shiels wrote:
 Let's be kind to the poor Windows users, encouraging them with the lure of
 free powerful software;  once they get a taste for it they'll be begging you
 to help them get Linux installed as a dual boot on their home machines, then
 as they get used to it and driver support gets better they'll find
 themselves booting Linux more than Windows, then their conversion away from
 the dark side will be complete :-)

I think the appropriate attitude is to NOT try to convert people, except
possibly in a slightly silly "muh, you must use linux for everything" way
that I personally don't take too seriously.

We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
"aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.

OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
used more in the workplace. I dunno.

Michael



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Roger Burton West

On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:43:46PM +, Michael Stevens typed:

We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
"aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.

OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
used more in the workplace. I dunno.

I think it's just like proactive evangelism vs "living a good life" -
when your box hasn't crashed six times today, and it's running a clone
of a production web site faster than the live box, and it's doing all
the monitoring for the company, and... people start to say "ooh, how can
I get some of that". This is a reaction that hitting them over the head
with Debian CDs rarely engenders (though it's fun anyway).

Roger



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Michael Stevens

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:46:13PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
 On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:43:46PM +, Michael Stevens typed:
 
 We need to just get on with using linux, and other sensible stuff, and
 IF PEOPLE ASK QUESTIONS then we can tell them about it. But we shouldn't 
 try to promote it as what they want, because invariably they start going
 "aargh, it' doesn't have all the shiny windows features, it must suck, and
 you said it was good", whereas if they get interested in it themselves,
 and come to you, you've made no promises so they can't be dissappointed.
 OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
 used more in the workplace. I dunno.
 I think it's just like proactive evangelism vs "living a good life" -
 when your box hasn't crashed six times today, and it's running a clone
 of a production web site faster than the live box, and it's doing all
 the monitoring for the company, and... people start to say "ooh, how can
 I get some of that". This is a reaction that hitting them over the head
 with Debian CDs rarely engenders (though it's fun anyway).

I was actually thinking religion here as the analogy...

Anyway, we seem to be in furious agreement.

Michael



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Mark Fowler

As I seemed to be destined to be ignored, I'll do what I should have done
and shoult a little louder:

UltraEdit32 is a really good windows editor[1] if you like the way of
Windows.  It does all the right things (in the way that perl does all the
right things) with line endings.  And a lot more (but in a good way, not
in a bloat way)

If you're on Windows and you want to be on Linux then get emacs or
whatever, which do work, but don't bitch about the people using
their metophor of choice not using emacs.  Just bitch at them for 
using a shit program (e.g. notepad) and give them a really nice
windows style program (e.g. ultraedit). TMTOWTDI.

Later.

Mark.

[1] It's shareware.  It's actually the last commerical software (excluding
games) I bought.

-- 
print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} (
   Name  = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer'  ,
   Firm  = 'Profero Ltd',Web   = 'http://www.profero.com/'   ,
   Email = '[EMAIL PROTECTED]',   Phone = '+44 (0) 20 7700 9960'  )








Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Robert Shiels

From: "Michael Stevens" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 24 January 2001 12:43
Subject: Re: odd -w effect



 OTOH, that doesn't help us much with the desirable goal of getting unix
 used more in the workplace. I dunno.

Well, it does actually, in a roundabout way. People who run it at home, will
want to play with it at work too. They'll see an old Pentium box in the
corner of the office not being used, and stick Linux on it. They will hook
it up to the network and 

/Robert




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Simon Wistow

Michael Stevens wrote:

 I hate to say it, but I'm slowly becoming converted to windows cut  paste.
 
 I like being able to highlight a block of text and hit ctrl-v to replace
 that with the contents of the clipboard.

troll
Why do you hate to say it? It's better than cut and paste of X. 

Linux isn't the be all and end all. It's not even the best Unix clone
out there in my opinion - it just has the most support. But if that's
the measure of how good it is then Windows is better. Inux just happens
to be better at doing most stuff that we need to do. But it doesn't mean
that it's the best OS. In fact when you think about it it's a bit shit
and is based on 30 year old technology which wasn't even the best OS
back then (c.f http://www.jwz.org/doc/worse-is-better.html) but then at
least it's not nearly as bad as X is.

*nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.

/troll

Simon
[grumpy today]



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Richard Clamp

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:08:50PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
 
 Emacs is available for windows. Now if I can just persuade it to save
 with unix line ending conventions...

Having recently done this, the thing you want is
set-buffer-file-coding-system, the default keybinding being 'C-x RET f'.  I
can highly recommend undecided-unix.

-- 
Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread James Powell

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:39:13PM +, Michael Stevens wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:36:40PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:
  On or about Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:31:28PM +, Michael Stevens typed:
  I propose we drag these people and drop them in those big rubbish bins
  you see outside offices.
  DD is vaguely useful sometimes. Just not when I'm editing text.
 
 I hate to say it, but I'm slowly becoming converted to windows cut  paste.
 
 I like being able to highlight a block of text and hit ctrl-v to replace
 that with the contents of the clipboard.
 

Presume you have Pending-delete-mode in Xemacs set up then

I also have this in my .emacs (ctrl changed to alt, just to confuse
me when moving platforms but not to confuse emacs or X).

;; windows emu
(require 'pc-select)
(pc-select-mode t)
(global-set-key [(alt c)] copy-primary-selection)
(global-set-key [(alt v)] yank)
(global-set-key [(alt x)] copy-region-as-kill)
(global-set-key [(alt left)] backward-word)
(global-set-key [(alt right)] forward-word)
(global-set-key [(alt up)] backward-paragraph)
(global-set-key [(alt down)] forward-paragraph)




RE: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Jonathan Peterson


 *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.

Yeah, BeOS. BeOS is the future. Which is to say BeOS _was_ the future. Oh
well.

Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
is the prefered development environment.




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Robert Shiels

From: "Jonathan Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]

  *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.

 Yeah, BeOS. BeOS is the future. Which is to say BeOS _was_ the future. Oh
 well.

 Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running
samba
 is the prefered development environment.

Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for doing X
stuff.

/Robert




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread David Cantrell

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:18:17PM +, Roger Burton West wrote:

 Must remember to try IE under WINE.

Don't bother.  It doesn't work.

-- 
David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/

  This is nice.  Any idea what body-part it is?



RE: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Bates, Duncan

I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the easiest
way to produce it.

so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?


-- 
Duncan Bates
Developer
Proxicom UK
Tel: 020 7321 3812
Mobile: 07884 336 532
http://www.proxicom.com/



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Dean S Wilson

-Original Message-
From: Robert Shiels [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine
running
samba
 is the prefered development environment.

Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for
doing X
stuff.


If you've got a nice meaty box at home then run Linux with NT in
vmware, you get a very nice system that way. You have a two machine
subnet for clean network testing that can be firewalled off at the
Linux host os, you can use procmail to check for vbs viri and then use
outlook and IE for web browsing. Its how I used to do 95% of my work.
Well until my motherboard started frying harddrives...

Dean

PS Running Linux in VMWare on NT works fine as well but its sick :)

--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Dean S Wilson

Original Message-
From: David Cantrell [EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Must remember to try IE under WINE.

Don't bother.  It doesn't work.


I've seen IE5 running under wine on Debian. The machine did have a 98
partition though so he might have been using the libraries from there,
is that cheating? :)

Dean
--
Profanity is the one language all programmers understand.
   ---  Anon




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Jonathan Stowe

On Wed, 24 Jan 2001, Robert Shiels wrote:

 From: "Jonathan Peterson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
   *nix is not the future. Something else entirely is.
 
  Yeah, BeOS. BeOS is the future. Which is to say BeOS _was_ the future. Oh
  well.
 
  Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
  is the prefered development environment.
 
 Strangely enough, thats exactly what I do at home. With Exceed for doing X
 stuff.
 

I am using X-WIn32 right now.

/J\
-- 
Jonathan Stowe   |   
http://www.gellyfish.com |   I'm with Grep on this one 
http://www.tackleway.co.uk   |




Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread DJ Adams

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 02:23:57PM -, Bates, Duncan wrote:
 I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the easiest
 way to produce it.
 
 so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?

docbook?

markup / WYSINWYG rules
dj



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread DJ Adams

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:47:59PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
 
 
 Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
 is the prefered development environment.

I'm with you on that one. That's what I'm doing right now, and with PuTTY
being such a great tiny-footprint client, the combo is lowest-common-
denominator and extremely portable. I don't get involved with the e.g.
Gnome vs KDE or whatever - because I don't have a 'desktop' as such. 

luvverly.

dj '80x25' adams




RE: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Dave Cross

At Wed, 24 Jan 2001 14:23:57 -, "Bates, Duncan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I wrote my book under Windows - I figured that Word would be the easiest
 way to produce it.
 
 so in retrospect what would be the best format to produce a book in?

Oh, I'd probably do something based using the Template Toolkit :)

But seriously, probably DocBook, or Latex.

Dave...



Re: odd -w effect

2001-01-24 Thread Michael Stevens

On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 12:07:38PM -0600, Paul Makepeace wrote:
 On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 01:47:59PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote:
  Jon, who thinks Windows workstation connected to *nix machine running samba
  is the prefered development environment.
 Aye aye. Windows UI is much nicer than linux's (right now) and
 linux doesn't have a decent browser which is a serious handicap.

My mileage varies.

Although you're right about the browser.

Michael