RE: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Mike Davis
Title: RE: Mailing List Archive Why don't we make our own archive and ask mail-archive.com to stop doing their thing? Then we have control of what is published and everyone's happy... -Original Message- From: alex [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 3:22 AM

RE: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Dave Cross
At Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:23:17 -, Mike Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't we make our own archive and ask mail-archive.com to stop doing their thing? Then we have control of what is published and everyone's happy... I don't think that mail-archive would be amenable to removing the

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Mark Fowler
This is my two pence worth: 1. I stand by everything I've ever said on the the list. If I didn't mean it I wouldn't have said it. 2. However, I can see problems with people taking things I've said out of context. Pah, so be it. This is the problem with the world. 3. If I wanted

RE: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Peterson
Best idea that I came up whilst thinking about it last night was to configure majordomo to automatically add an 'X-No-Archive' header to all mails on the list. But even that only avoids archives that play by the rules. Seems like a good idea to me. The fact that mailing lists are ultimately

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread jduncan
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:07:18AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * James Powell ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: To make it harder for google to find you - change your name Prince style. good idea! - greg of wales This is the best laugh I've had in a little while. Thanks. james. --

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Richard Clamp
On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:20:28PM +, Dave Cross wrote: It seems that mail-archive.com have been archiving our list for some time and anyone who knows about mail-archive can find anything posted to our list. I've got no real problem with having my contributions publically archived, the

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Greg Cope
Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: (Sadly I no longer have shell access to any four-processor Sun machines to confirm this.) Which reminds me. How in gods name do Sun get away with charging so much for stuff? We've erm, "acquired" an enterprise 420.

RE: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Peterson
For the same money I could build a clutster of what, 30 linux boxes? Don't tell me programmer time has got that expensive? Or that thinking about what you're doing stopped happening? If it's good enough for Google... Help me out here! It is good kit (and alot of it is rebadged stuff

RE: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Barman, Harry
I'd agree with this. We buy large amounts of Sun kit. Although I don't make these decisions my take on why is: - Even though you can automate sysadmin tasks, generally more boxes mean more sysadmin effort. Given our compute requirements we would need very large numbers of PCs to replace our sun

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 10:35:45AM +, Steve Mynott wrote: I suspect things like SMP probably still work better. And if I were on call supporting a server I would probably still trust a Sparc running Solaris over some dodgy PC desktop with Redhat stuck on it by a hobbyist who has never

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread David Cantrell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 10:17:21AM +, Greg Cope wrote: Dave Hodgkinson wrote: How in gods name do Sun get away with charging so much for stuff? It is good kit But it's also a marketing thing I know tow clients whom purchased 15k of sun kit each, and in either case a good

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Richard Clamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:20:28PM +, Dave Cross wrote: It seems that mail-archive.com have been archiving our list for some time and anyone who knows about mail-archive can find anything posted to our list. I've got no real problem with

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Andy Williams
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Dominic Mitchell wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 10:35:45AM +, Steve Mynott wrote: I suspect things like SMP probably still work better. And if I were on call supporting a server I would probably still trust a Sparc running Solaris over some dodgy PC desktop with

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Greg Cope
Steve Mynott wrote: Dave Hodgkinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [..] How in gods name do Sun get away with charging so much for stuff? Because they can and they have a brand people trust like IBM or Microsoft. In fact you can buy far cheaper Sun clones from companies like Transtec

RE: Dream weaver

2001-01-26 Thread Matthews Simon
You're right I think it probably would make a good topic to TPC5. Just need the time to write it. The patch has not yet made it into the main wvWare distribution although some of mine have. wvWare itself is extremely stable and I have not found any problems with wvWare. I am currently looking

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Greg Cope
Michael Stevens wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 10:35:45AM +, Steve Mynott wrote: I suspect things like SMP probably still work better. And if I were on call supporting a server I would probably still trust a Sparc running Solaris over some dodgy PC desktop with Redhat stuck on it by

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Roger Burton West
On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:07:02AM +, Michael Stevens typed: I imagine you could get a pc service contract on the same level as Sun do, but I have no experience in the area. Has anyone got any experience paying vast amounts of money for PC support? did you get much for your money?

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:18:06AM +, Greg Cope wrote: How about a decently built rack mount PC running Debian[1], by someone who actually knows how to setup that particular OS decently, as compared with a Sun box running Solaris setup by someone good with solaris? (And, myself,

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:19:02AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:07:02AM +, Michael Stevens typed: I imagine you could get a pc service contract on the same level as Sun do, but I have no experience in the area. Has anyone got any experience paying

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Andy Williams
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Michael Stevens wrote: Can't we compare something vaguely equivalent here instead? I personally would have just as little faith in Solaris run by someone who didn't know what they were doing as I would in Redhat run by someone who didn't know what they were doing. How

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:30:03AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:23:26AM +, Michael Stevens typed: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:19:02AM +, Roger Burton West wrote: Dell offer this on some of their servers. IMHO this is always a waste of money -

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:30:28AM +, Struan Donald wrote: on the other hand kickstart files aren't that tricky to write and you can then set up the box in a sensible way (or something approaching that) and it's very easy to set up a chunk of boxes the same. of course you a box to put

RE: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-26 Thread Clyne, Richard
I sugest that we give it to Dave Cross Richard -Original Message- From: Dave Cross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 26 January 2001 07:33 To: london.pm Subject: Fwd: [[EMAIL PROTECTED]: free copy of data munging with perl] I'd be failing in my duty as group leader if I didn't pass on

Re: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
Dave Cross wrote: I'd be failing in my duty as group leader if I didn't pass on this announcement from the Perl Mongers Group Leaders mailing list :) Dave... - Forwarded message from Uri Guttman [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 15:25:55 -0500 From: Uri Guttman [EMAIL

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:39:17AM +, Struan Donald wrote: One of these days I must play with the FAI (fully automatic installation) stuff for debian. kickstart is (i assume) teh redhat equiv of FAI. or at least it is if FAI is stick floppy in system, create symlink in some magic format

Re: Another OScon Europe Sanity Check

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Nathan Torkington wrote: Cumberland Hotel (overlooks Hyde Park), October 16-19 (Tue-Fri). Anyone see problems (clashes with other conferences, plans for riots that week, the Cumberland is famous for its urine cocktails, etc)? Sounds fine to me. /J\ -- Jonathan

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Dave Cross
At Fri, 26 Jan 2001 10:59:34 -, "Robert Shiels" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never say anything I wouldn't stand by on any list, but as the search engines get better, more people than I'd like will have access to what I say. How many of you who have discussed drug use would like their

List Archive ( was SUBSCRIBE london-list archive@jab.org (fwd))

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
For those that might be interested this was when mail-archive started archiving london-list. /J\ -- Jonathan Stowe | http://www.gellyfish.com | I'm with Grep on this one http://www.tackleway.co.uk | -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sat, 30

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Richard Clamp
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:50:35AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Richard Clamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: That said I would have liked to have been informed of it when subscribing to the list (or for those of us that have been here for donkeys, when it started getting archived,) just so

Re: List Archive ( was SUBSCRIBE london-list archive@jab.org (fwd))

2001-01-26 Thread James Powell
Phew, just missed my 29th Sept post where I detailed my plans for a perl script to overthrow the government. jp On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:01:21PM +, Jonathan Stowe wrote: For those that might be interested this was when mail-archive started archiving london-list. /J\ -- Jonathan

Re: [uri@sysarch.com: free copy of data munging with perl]

2001-01-26 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Philip Newton ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: this is forwarded from manning and they are offering each pm group a free copy of data munging with perl by dave cross. Hey! Now Dave can have his very own free copy of DMWP! and we can all sign it! -- Greg McCarroll

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
Dave Cross wrote: If the majority are against it then I'll do what I can to prevent it. The obvious thing would be to arrange for archive@jab.org (or whatever it is) to unsubscribe from the list. I believe they don't delete archived articles, but if they aren't subscribed to the list any more,

Re: List Archive ( was SUBSCRIBE london-list archive@jab.org (fwd))

2001-01-26 Thread Dave Cross
At Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:01:21 + (GMT), Jonathan Stowe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For those that might be interested this was when mail-archive started archiving london-list. -- Forwarded message -- Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2000 07:11:22 -0400 (EDT) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
Dave Cross wrote: At Fri, 26 Jan 2001 09:23:17 -, Mike Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why don't we make our own archive and ask mail-archive.com to stop doing their thing? Then we have control of what is published and everyone's happy... I don't think that mail-archive would

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Robin Houston
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:50:59AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: This is all a fine plan, but it doesn't prevent external people from achiving us in the same way that mail-archive do. I really don't think there's a foolproof way to prevent it. I doubt that's a serious problem. I assume that

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Richard Clamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2001 at 08:20:28PM +, Dave Cross wrote: It seems that mail-archive.com have been archiving our list for some time and anyone who knows about mail-archive can find anything posted

RE: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Peterson
Agreed entirely. I was thinking purely of hardware support; software support IME is always and everywhere a complete waste of time and money. I have encountered good software support with applications that: a) Cost over 20 grand and/or b) Are not widely used I think there are lots of

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
I suppose at this point I should point out that it was I that subscribed mail-archive.com's bot to the list. Not sure when, but looking at the archive, it seems to be roughly end of September 2000. (See http://www.mail-archive.com/london-list%40happyfunball.pm.org/mail5.html .) Since I confirmed

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
Robin Houston wrote: I assume that someone deliberately added mail-archive's bot to the list, because mail-archive certainly don't hunt down lists themselves. Yes. See my other post. If we have an explicit "no public archives" policy then presumably people will have the decency to honour

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Roger Burton West
On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:08:22PM -, Jonathan Peterson typed: And then people wonder why I like open source... Even within OS software there's good support and bad support. There's plenty of OS software that _doesn't_ have helpful user groups, and has very poor documentation and

Re: List Archive ( was SUBSCRIBE london-list archive@jab.org (fwd))

2001-01-26 Thread Robin Houston
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 07:02:48AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: I wonder what mail-archive would do if we just unsubbed their bot? Nothing, presumably. I don't think that mail-archive subbed their bot to the list - I think someone from here must have done it. They seem like a decent bunch, and

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Richard Clamp wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:50:35AM +, Greg McCarroll wrote: * Richard Clamp ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: That said I would have liked to have been informed of it when subscribing to the list (or for those of us that have been here for donkeys,

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Steve Mynott
This is really sysadminy stuff and probably off topic but here I go:- Michael Stevens [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Isn't kickstart a solaris thing, or have redhat developed new stuff I didn't know about? Kickstart is RedHat http://wwwcache.ja.net/dev/kickstart/KickStart-HOWTO.html Jumpstart

Re: List Archive ( was SUBSCRIBE london-list archive@jab.org (fwd ))

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
Philip Newton wrote: AFAIK they just take incoming posts and if they look like they come from a list, they're stuff in that list's archive (which is created if necessary). And you can even create your own archive, as long as mail sent to it looks sort of like list mail. See

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Robin Houston wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:50:59AM -0500, Dave Cross wrote: This is all a fine plan, but it doesn't prevent external people from achiving us in the same way that mail-archive do. I really don't think there's a foolproof way to prevent it. I

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:16:52PM +, Steve Mynott wrote: There's very little off-topic on this list :) Kickstart is RedHat http://wwwcache.ja.net/dev/kickstart/KickStart-HOWTO.html Jumpstart is Solaris Both are automated install procedures. Yes. I have learnt. If it is just

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Jonathan Stowe ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: If no-one objects I will put this in place this weekend. I guess it will result in ~ 10 excess messages a week. with current volumen, this is a drop in the pond -- Greg McCarroll http://www.mccarroll.uklinux.net

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Philip Newton
Jonathan Stowe wrote: I must admit that I could have spotted this if I had known what I was looking for - I dont tend to pay much attention to the subscribe messages. You did spot it. I remember you mailed me about it saying you weren't too keen on the idea but approved the subscription

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Philip Newton wrote: I suppose at this point I should point out that it was I that subscribed mail-archive.com's bot to the list. Not sure when, but looking at the archive, it seems to be roughly end of September 2000. (See

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Rob Partington
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: [1] My main gripe with *BSD is lack of binary package management Um, then what's this? pkg_add ftp://ftp.plig.org/pub/OpenBSD/2.8/packages/i386/dia-0.86p1.tgz That installed a precompiled binary of dia for me. Or do you

government overthowing Re: List Archive ( was SUBSCRIBE london-list archive@jab.org (fwd))

2001-01-26 Thread Steve Mynott
James Powell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Phew, just missed my 29th Sept post where I detailed my plans for a perl script to overthrow the government. I actually think this would be possible if you ported either http://anoncvs.aldigital.co.uk/lucre/ or

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Philip Newton wrote: Jonathan Stowe wrote: I must admit that I could have spotted this if I had known what I was looking for - I dont tend to pay much attention to the subscribe messages. You did spot it. I remember you mailed me about it saying you weren't too

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread David Cantrell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:16:46PM +, Jonathan Stowe wrote: On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Greg McCarroll wrote: how about if we notified the list everytime someone subscribed or unsubscribed This can be done ver', ver' easily - It would also have the positive benefit of breaking the ice

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Richard Clamp
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:27:02PM +, David Cantrell wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:00:24PM +, Richard Clamp wrote: Personally I like to be able to get mbox archives in preference to web archives, but then I like my mail client much more than my web broswer. Same here. I'm

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Steve Mynott
Rob Partington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: That installed a precompiled binary of dia for me. Or do you mean that, say, pkg_* don't have the same functionality as RPM? It has the same (or similar functionality) but its database isn't complete because it doesn't include _every_ system file. --

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Rob Partington
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On RedHat I can do something like 'rpm -e sendmail' to clean up before installing qmail and, alas, I can't do this on OpenBSD (although there has been talk of extending the binary packages to include the base OS). If you

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Steve Mynott
Rob Partington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On RedHat I can do something like 'rpm -e sendmail' to clean up before installing qmail and, alas, I can't do this on OpenBSD (although there has been talk of extending the

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 01:59:09PM +, Steve Mynott wrote: Rob Partington [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Steve Mynott [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On RedHat I can do something like 'rpm -e sendmail' to clean up before installing qmail and, alas, I can't do this

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:08:22PM -, Jonathan Peterson wrote: I've encountered good support for Veritas' Netbackup package, but again we were paying about 6k / annum for the support contract. Lucky you! I spit on the earth that NetBackup walks on! It's one of the worst packages I've

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Dave Cross
At Fri, 26 Jan 2001 12:44:31 +, Richard Clamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Got a complete archive of this list? I don't but would like. Not complete, but I think I subscribed pretty early. The earliest post I have is: fx sound="rummage"/ From: "Cross, David" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To:

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread David Cantrell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 03:37:38PM +, Jonathan Stowe wrote: I still have the original mail that Dave sent out somewhere ... Show off! -- David Cantrell | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | http://www.cantrell.org.uk/david/ Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Mark Fowler
Dave Cross wibbled: The other week I dug out the original comp.lang.perl.misc post. I think I have a recording of someone bashing a stick near a big black rectangle somewhere too... Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by posting so much that they get overloaded and fall

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Dave Cross wibbled: The other week I dug out the original comp.lang.perl.misc post. I think I have a recording of someone bashing a stick near a big black rectangle somewhere too... Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Greg Cope
Redvers Davies wrote: Would this still hold for a RedDrat system with all the X stuff and other unncessary stuff removed ? Nah, ou want slackware A, N and D... No more. 10 meg for your base OS, compile what you need. Stop IT ... I am not using slackware ! Greg

RE: Stupid Email

2001-01-26 Thread Matthews Simon
Don't listen to this man. His job title may include the word "manager" but he never has or never will be a "manager" in this context. He's far too intelligent for a start :-)= Too kind. I usually have to blow my own trumpet. It's always nice to have someone else blow it for

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Redvers Davies
Under FreeBSD, you've got sendmail-wrapper instead, which you can configure to point to any installed file. Linux has that too - its called a symbolic link: tonkatsu:~# ls -al /usr/lib/sendmail /usr/sbin/sendmail lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 18 Dec 9 1998 /usr/lib/sendmail -

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Redvers Davies
Stop IT ... I am not using slackware ! Ans why not?? For a server it is perfect. Very small, very compact. Perfect for a secure environment.

RE: Stupid Email

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Matthews Simon wrote: Don't listen to this man. His job title may include the word "manager" but he never has or never will be a "manager" in this context. He's far too intelligent for a start :-)= Too kind. I usually have to blow my own trumpet.

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 05:19:08PM +, Redvers Davies wrote: Stop IT ... I am not using slackware ! Ans why not?? For a server it is perfect. Very small, very compact. Perfect for a secure environment. Is that why slackware.com got broken into a few weeks ago then? :-) -Dom

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Redvers Davies
Is that why slackware.com got broken into a few weeks ago then? :-) I'm not going to rise to that at all as you know full well that the security of a product has more to do with its installation, configuration and maintainence than the code. Regardless of supplier, if the admin does not lock

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton
Roger Burton West [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: *On or about Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 12:08:22PM -, Jonathan Peterson typed: * * And then people wonder why I like open source... *Even within OS software there's good support and bad support. There's plenty *of OS software that _doesn't_ have helpful

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:40:13AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: *Oh, agreed entirely. The key thing is that nobody _expects_ a professional *support service, so they're less disappointed when it doesn't happen. I don't think this is true for the great majority of software end-users out

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton
Michael Stevens [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *I personally would have just as little faith in Solaris run by someone *who didn't know what they were doing as I would in Redhat run by *someone who didn't know what they were doing. I would have more faith in Solaris. On an acadmeic network, no

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton
Michael Stevens [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *Can anyone point to actual studies of the "we took some end users, and *found they wanted FOO amounts of documentation". And, for completeness, *"we took some end users, looked at what they were actually using, and *then looked at how much

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton
Michael Stevens [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *Isn't kickstart a solaris thing, or have redhat developed new stuff *I didn't know about? Jumpstart. e.

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Greg Cope
Redvers Davies wrote: Stop IT ... I am not using slackware ! Ans why not?? For a server it is perfect. Very small, very compact. Perfect for a secure environment. Only joking - I'm used to redhat - I might move to Debian who knows ? I am quite happy with redhat / debian as I know

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:50:00AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: Michael Stevens [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: *I personally would have just as little faith in Solaris run by someone *who didn't know what they were doing as I would in Redhat run by *someone who didn't know what they were

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:59:08AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: Michael Stevens [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: *Isn't kickstart a solaris thing, or have redhat developed new stuff *I didn't know about? Jumpstart. yes, I found that out, my memory sucks.

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Yes, don't forget that symbolic links originated in BSD, thank you. :-) Don't forget that pretty much everything of any use in Unix came out of Berkely! I spit on your system V IPC, I want my select()... -- Dave Hodgkinson,

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Michael Stevens
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 06:04:07PM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:50:00AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: Michael Stevens [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: I take that post back. I don't think it would be productive to continue the discussion. Michael

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread David Cantrell
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 11:50:00AM -0600, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: I would have more faith in Solaris. On an acadmeic network, no firewalls, we had user workstations that pretty much lived on their own and at the mercy of their users. One day, one of the AI profs installed RedHat after

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Elaine -HFB- Ashton
David Cantrell [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] quoth: * *And yet this is not Linux's fault. It is the fault of: * the person who set it up wrongly in the first place * the network people for making their network so vulnerable to this *sort of predictable stupidity OpenBSD hasn't had a exploitable

Re: Mailing List Archive

2001-01-26 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Mark Fowler ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: I sez: Is this a collective attempt to crash mail archiving bots by posting so much that they get overloaded and fall over? ;-) Then grep sez: they wouldn't fall over if .. they were written using java on a windows

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Elaine -HFB- Ashton wrote: I have a farm of suns, if you want to make a benchmark, I'll be very interested to run and compare the results. I have three E250s running Informix in my hareem, the only time those suckers have broken is when someone broke the database

Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-26 Thread Mark Fowler
On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote: How do people feel about going back to State51? Does someone want to contact the ICA? Hmm. No one seems to have replied to this[1]. I think the lack of response seems to indicate that no-one has any objections to either venue. I personally thought

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Paul Makepeace
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 10:42:16AM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Multi processor Solaris runs rings around any of the free Unixes. They've had kernel threads for nearly 10 years, and it's very optimized. Hmm, last time I checked Solaris threads were a nightmare... I suspect that SGIs IRIX

Re: Sun's Perl was Re: Application servers and e-commerce platforms

2001-01-26 Thread Paul Makepeace
On Fri, Jan 26, 2001 at 02:33:54PM +, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Under FreeBSD, you've got sendmail-wrapper instead, which you can configure to point to any installed file. Debian has generalised this in /etc/alternatives, $ ls -l /etc/alternatives/ | head -6 total 1 -rw-r--r--1 root

Re: TPC5

2001-01-26 Thread Chris Benson
On Sun, Jan 21, 2001 at 12:08:04PM +, David Cantrell wrote: Good point. Sometimes it's hard to remember that there is life outside the M25. Errm ... if you *really* want to have it in the UK, consider manchester and birmingham. Both have international airports, large hotels and

Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-26 Thread Natalie Ford
At 23:11 26/01/01, you wrote: On Thu, 25 Jan 2001, Dave Cross wrote: How do people feel about going back to State51? Does someone want to contact the ICA? Hmm. No one seems to have replied to this[1]. [1] ? I have replied to this, off list, because the preferences I expressed were

Re: Stupid Email

2001-01-26 Thread Chris Benson
On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 11:58:14AM +, Michael Stevens wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2001 at 11:32:58AM +, Andy Wardley wrote: There was a moral in this story but I forgot it in the process of rambling on. Probably something about munging Reply-To, or putting all middle management up

Re: Technical Meeting Venues

2001-01-26 Thread Mark Fowler
[1] ? Ooops, I know there was something I'd missed off the bottom of the message. That'll teach me to watch TV, eat, use irc, and post at the same time [1] Unless I've missed it due to the large amount of mail, or someone has replied off off list. I have replied to this, off list, because