Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-07 Thread Alex Page
On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 11:28:16AM +0200, Philip Newton wrote: Alex Page wrote: When I was at prep school, my English teacher had lots of little signs over the classroom walls saying things like "It's not all right to say 'alright'", to drum little things like that in. I hope it

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-06 Thread pmh
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:16:18 +0100, Matthew Jones wrote: I was at school from up to 1995 and grammer, hand writing and similar were only lightly touched upon. IT was another subject that we never actually did (other than read about spreadsheets leading to my adult hatred of Excel) and as

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-06 Thread Barbie
From: "Dave Hodgkinson" [EMAIL PROTECTED] "Barbie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Quite. I'm 35 and was given a good basic education at Primary school of the english language, together most of it's idyosyncrasies. I was lucky enough to go to a Grammar (when there were still such things) so

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Philip Newton
Alex Page wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:17:24AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Me too, ('74 vintage) but I got learnt grammar. I think mostly by my mother if truth be told. The rest I picked up from Latin :-/ AOL. A strongly grammatical language like Latin really makes you think

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Steve Mynott
dcross - David Cross [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: When I was at secondary school (75 - 79) ITA was used to teach reading to a remedial class. As (supposedly) one of the brighter pupils in my year, I got to spend a couple of hours a week helping out in this class, which is where I picked up ITA.

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Steve Mynott
Matthew Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Right, well there's the difference then. I'm 29 this year and I was schooled during the seventies. Was anyone else of a similar age *not* taught proper punctuation and grammar at school? Back in those days, teachers actually taught you, as opposed to

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Merijn Broeren
Quoting Steve Mynott ([EMAIL PROTECTED]): I remember arguing with a teacher who told us gravity was caused by the Earth spinning round who refused to accept that the child she was teaching actually knew more about it than her. Hey! I resemble that remark. I got send from school for a day

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Simon Wistow ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Hey! I resemble that remark. I got send from school for a day after being 'impolite to the teacher' when I refused (loudly) to accept his version of the first moonlanding where Aldrin got out first. Had large arguments with English teacher about

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread AEF
An somewhat sceptical essay I wrote on whether psychology was a science for my A' level psychology course came back with "You can argue that psychology is a science, you can't argue that it isn't" written on it. I thought that rather nicely proved my point. Tony

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread David H. Adler
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 12:05:10PM +0100, Leon Brocard wrote: ObTopic: [snip lots of stuff about perl] Excuse me, where was the topical stuff there? dha -- David H. Adler - [EMAIL PROTECTED] - http://www.panix.com/~dha/ Your Aunt Linda should maybe stay away from the Manischewitz. Or stop

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread David H. Adler
On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:29:09PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: its amazing how hard it is to disguise the fact you just set fire to a roll of magnesium ribbon. ...but hardly surprising. :_) One of the administrators of my school found me sitting out in the hallway reading a book and

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Barbie
Right, well there's the difference then. I'm 29 this year and I was schooled during the seventies. Was anyone else of a similar age *not* taught proper punctuation and grammar at school? Back in those days, teachers actually taught you, as opposed to writing long essays to justify

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
"Barbie" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Quite. I'm 35 and was given a good basic education at Primary school of the english language, together most of it's idyosyncrasies. I was lucky enough to go to a Grammar (when there were still such things) so probably faired better than most. Fared?

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-05 Thread Paul Makepeace
Greg McCarroll IS Tommy Cooper! Stand-up comedy slots at TPC would get my vote. P On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 02:29:09PM +0100, Greg McCarroll wrote: I was a cheeky brat as a child, I remember having an argument once with a teacher, whose comeback was - well if you don't study harder what

Linux.com Online Chat

2001-04-04 Thread dcross - David Cross
Well, it's on their website, so it must be official. http://www.linux.com/live/calendar.phtml?item_id=30 Event: "Author Talks" Series - Data Munging with Perl Tue Apr 17th, 2001 (12:00 pm US/Pacific) Location: #live on irc.openprojects.net We will have Dave Cross, the author of Data Munging

Re: Linux.com Online Chat

2001-04-04 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:20:25AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Tell all your friends. No heckling. Does that mean we can heckle but they can't? :-) -Dom

RE: Linux.com Online Chat

2001-04-04 Thread dcross - David Cross
From: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2001 09:32 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:20:25AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Tell all your friends. No heckling. Does that mean we can heckle but they can't? :-) That would be "Tell all your friends, no heckling." Doesn't

Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:37:07AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: From: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2001 09:32 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:20:25AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Tell all your friends. No heckling. Does that mean we can heckle but they

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Paul Makepeace
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:04:45AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Funnily, enough, no. I was born in 1974, I've never been taught english grammar and I know of nobody who has. It's actually quite annoying as Me too, ('74 vintage) but I got learnt grammar. I think mostly by my mother if truth

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ObPerl: So which is harder to parse? Perl or English? Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana Parse that and stay fashionable... -- Dave Hodgkinson, http://www.hodgkinson.org Editor-in-chief, The Highway Star

Re: Linux.com Online Chat

2001-04-04 Thread Greg McCarroll
* dcross - David Cross ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: From: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2001 09:32 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 09:20:25AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Tell all your friends. No heckling. Does that mean we can heckle but they can't? :-) That

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread dcross - David Cross
From: Paul Makepeace [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2001 10:17 On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:04:45AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Funnily, enough, no. I was born in 1974, I've never been taught english grammar and I know of nobody who has. It's actually quite annoying as Me too, ('74

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Mark Fowler
On 4 Apr 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Dominic Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: ObPerl: So which is harder to parse? Perl or English? Time flies like an arrow Fruit flies like a banana Parse that and stay fashionable... They're both Type 0, though one *could* argue that Perl was

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:17:24AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:04:45AM +0100, Dominic Mitchell wrote: Funnily, enough, no. I was born in 1974, I've never been taught english grammar and I know of nobody who has. It's actually quite annoying as Me too, ('74

Re: Linux.com Online Chat

2001-04-04 Thread Mark Fowler
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote: Tue Apr 17th, 2001 (12:00 pm US/Pacific) In english? -- print "\n",map{my$a="\n"if(length$_6);' 'x(36-length($_)/2)."$_\n$a"} ( Name = 'Mark Fowler',Title = 'Technology Developer' , Firm = 'Profero Ltd',Web =

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dominic Mitchell
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:32:22AM +0100, dcross - David Cross wrote: Dave... [who makes lots of typos - but _knows_ they are typos] There's nothing wrong with typos. It's obvious that they are tyops from the error. It just means that the person was thinking faster than typing and forgot the

RE: Linux.com Online Chat

2001-04-04 Thread dcross - David Cross
From: Mark Fowler [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2001 10:46 On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, dcross - David Cross wrote: Tue Apr 17th, 2001 (12:00 pm US/Pacific) In english? 8pm Dave... -- The information contained in this communication is confidential, is intended only for the use of the

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Andrew Bowman
From: dcross - David Cross [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] If you know the difference between it's and its, you're and your, and don't write 'alot', you're probably in the top 1%-ile :) True. Shouldn't we also need to include "should'nt" (etc.) here as well? . These are trivially simple rules to

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Jones
True. Shouldn't we also need to include "should'nt" (etc.) here as well? . These are trivially simple rules to teach/learn - so why they aren't taught (or possibly aren't learnt) says something about the education system and the attitude of the pupils therein. I don't know which education

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dean
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 11:39:55AM +0100, Matthew Jones wrote: I don't know which education system you went through, but I was taught all this stuff at primary school. I think it's just because the pupils couln't be beggared to learn it properly (as you suggest), preferring to subscribe to

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Leon Brocard
Dean sent the following bits through the ether: Is it just me or do we seem to thread drift a lot recently... Yes - I've noticed this recently ;-) ObTopic: Yup, did Perl grammar, and French and German and seven years of Latin and I think I'm really good at it too and don't talk to me about

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Matthew Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: True. Shouldn't we also need to include "should'nt" (etc.) here as well? . These are trivially simple rules to teach/learn - so why they aren't taught (or possibly aren't learnt) says something about the education system and the attitude of the

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Jones
I was at school from up to 1995 and grammer, hand writing and similar were only lightly touched upon. IT was another subject that we never actually did (other than read about spreadsheets leading to my adult hatred of Excel) and as far as I'm aware none of my friends of the same age did

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Simon Cozens
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:31:41AM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: Perl is easier to parse simply because all the irregularities are known and documented. They're not in English. In addition to the above ^^ Uhm,

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Matthew Jones
soapboax Wrong. There was a concerted effort by the loony left to destroy decent education in favour of whatever trendy piffle that was the order of the day. Oy! That's my family (lefty teachers) you're talking about! I went through the state comprehensive system and was never touched by

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread dcross - David Cross
From: Matthew Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 04 April 2001 12:24 I had to unlearn the reading I knew before I went to school in favour of some stupid phonetic system (anyone remember ITA?) Nope, never heard of it. I learned to read proper english, as did everyone else I know who was

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Robin Houston
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:00:08AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: I'm as liberal as anyone here as far as creativity, expression, society and the rest go, but there are certain fundamentals that you need before you can go out and break the rules. Like having the musical basics before you go

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Philip Newton
Simon Cozens wrpte_ package four; use subs qw(print); sub print{die@_}; print four things; # (Why doesn't that one work properly?) Answer one: see toke.c (I guess) Answer two: because print is special. Even without a package, you can't call a subroutine of yours that you've named print just

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Janet Reid
- Original Message - From: "Matthew Jones" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Oy! That's my family (lefty teachers) you're talking about! I went through the state comprehensive system and was never touched by these so-called "trendy teaching methods". And my Dad was one of these apparently "loony

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Clarke, Darren
Title: RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat) Dave said: soapboax Wrong. There was a concerted effort by the loony left to destroy decent education in favour of whatever trendy piffle that was the order of the day. I had to unlearn the reading I knew before I went to school

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Mark Fowler
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Simon Cozens wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:31:41AM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: Perl is easier to parse simply because all the irregularities are known and documented. They're not in English.

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Jon Eyre
Perl is easier to parse simply because all the irregularities are known and documented. They're not in English. In addition to the above Uhm, where? The perl source code *is* the documentation. There is no direct equivalent for the English language, as it is really whatever we think

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dean
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:40PM +0100, Clarke, Darren wrote: On the other hand not using decent grammar because it wasn't taught seems a bit lazy. Admittedly I'm not the best at written words in emails but I figure most intelligent people will rise above their background as the situation

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 10:00:08AM +0100, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: I'm as liberal as anyone here as far as creativity, expression, society and the rest go, but there are certain fundamentals that you need before you can go out and break the rules.

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Dave Hodgkinson
"Clarke, Darren" [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: An example (although slightly irrelevant to most of you it is still appropriate) I come from Luton. Most people who live there say "Lu'on" (or something). Many people have asked me over the years where I come from and don't believe me when I

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Andrew Bowman
From: Dave Hodgkinson [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] And of course, the best English speakers are probably the Scots and the Welsh. Discuss! I'm not so sure about the Welsh you know ;-) Re. the Scots, me apart, it depends on which part of Scotland. Some of the clearest and most pleasant English

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Chris Devers
At 03:18 PM 4.4.2001 +0100, you wrote: The Ramones are *still* using the same three chords they were in the '70s. You mean the Ramones got back together? Cool! ;) (Well, they used the same three chords to the bitter end, but that's not quite what you said. My brother has a live album that

RE: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread jo walsh
Wrong. There was a concerted effort by the loony left to destroy decent education in favour of whatever trendy piffle that was the order of the day. I had to unlearn the reading I knew before I went to school in favour of some stupid phonetic system (anyone remember ITA?) in 1970, finally

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Simon Cozens
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: Ah, but with perl code there is a definite 'correct' parsing (whatever /usr/bin/perl does[1]) but with the English language that isn't true. I'm afraid that's as silly as me declaring that there's only one correct parsing of English,

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Greg McCarroll
* Simon Cozens ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: Ah, but with perl code there is a definite 'correct' parsing (whatever /usr/bin/perl does[1]) but with the English language that isn't true. I'm afraid that's as silly as me declaring

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Mark Fowler
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Simon Cozens wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: Ah, but with perl code there is a definite 'correct' parsing (whatever /usr/bin/perl does[1]) but with the English language that isn't true. I'm afraid that's as silly as me declaring

Language (was Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat))

2001-04-04 Thread Jonathan Stowe
On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Mark Fowler wrote: On Wed, 4 Apr 2001, Simon Cozens wrote: On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:10:11PM +0100, Mark Fowler wrote: Ah, but with perl code there is a definite 'correct' parsing (whatever /usr/bin/perl does[1]) but with the English language that isn't true.

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Alex Page
On Wed, Apr 04, 2001 at 02:17:24AM -0700, Paul Makepeace wrote: Me too, ('74 vintage) but I got learnt grammar. I think mostly by my mother if truth be told. The rest I picked up from Latin :-/ AOL. A strongly grammatical language like Latin really makes you think about your grammar in

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Paul Makepeace
On Thu, Apr 05, 2001 at 12:51:31AM -0400, Alex Page wrote: AOL. A strongly grammatical language like Latin really makes you think about your grammar in English. I did Latin to A-level, and remembering which form of qui to use in a given situation really helps you work out that whole who / whom

Re: Grammar (was: Re: Linux.com Online Chat)

2001-04-04 Thread Jon Eyre
On 4 Apr 2001, Dave Hodgkinson wrote: Robin Houston [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I agree with you about education, but all the best punk bands started off without the first idea how to play any of their instruments :-) Stranglers? The Pistols? All had their fair share of