Some great points and feedback. I know Mithaldu is working on renewed
Perl tutorials and there is Gabor's stuff. One issue they have is
trying to get their stuff higher in search results when people type in
"Perl tutorial".
-Mallory
On Sun, Dec 02, 2012 at 01:47:32AM +, pierre masci wrote:
> I
Kinda in the wrong sub-thread, but someone over in Python posted
this bit from Guido's keynote, just a few moments' discussion about
"other languages" and the "my language is better than yours" stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBRMq2Ioxsc#t=5m20s
Just thought it was interesting. :)
-Mallory
Someone did two talks on this subject at the LPW. One of his main concerns
was the welcoming of newcomers : how to make their life simpler when they
start, so that they will want to keep on learning. If the first few
minutes/hours/days/months of learning a language are painful, it's not
going to he
On 30 Nov 2012, at 01:32, Kieren Diment wrote:
> Solving problems using the same or better new and shiny as the others (in
> combination with the old solid and reliable which perl excels at), in equal
> or less time. Perl 5 does that well. But we're a bit shy as a community,
> and ought to bl
On 27 Nov 2012, at 13:31, James Laver wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2012, at 13:10, Bob Walker wrote:
>>
>>
>> I cant quite decide if the fact that it installs a module's dependencies in
>> the directory of the module you're installing is insane or a very good idea.
>
> I like this. I note that both sb
On 30/11/2012, at 12:24 PM, Tomas Doran wrote:
>
> On 29 Nov 2012, at 12:33, gvim wrote:
>> If we want to be Perl noticed again as a serious contender for new projects
>> I'd say our best bet is to finally get Perl 6 finished, or at least
>> "production-ready". I know Perl 5 is excellent but
On 27 Nov 2012, at 15:24, James Laver wrote:
> I would reach for cucumber/capybara in that situation. Watir is nice but
> cucumber grew on me after a while.
It's fairly trivial to back the default cucumber stuff with waiter at the http
level..
The official docs for web driver at least used to
On 29 Nov 2012, at 12:33, gvim wrote:
> If we want to be Perl noticed again as a serious contender for new projects
> I'd say our best bet is to finally get Perl 6 finished, or at least
> "production-ready". I know Perl 5 is excellent but Perl needs something new
> to get noticed again. That so
On 26 Nov 2012, at 15:59, Daniel Mantovani wrote:
> Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of subjects
> to attract people from others groups ?
"Well volunteered"
Cheers
t0m
On Thu, Nov 29, 2012 at 10:25 AM, James Laver wrote:
> "Perl" == "Perl 5".
*cough*
perl -E'$_ == "Perl" and say "Yup, $_ == Perl" for @ARGV' Python Lisp
Ruby Fortran etc
On 29 Nov 2012, at 12:33, gvim wrote:
> If we want to be Perl noticed again as a serious contender for new projects
> I'd say our best bet is to finally get Perl 6 finished, or at least
> "production-ready". I know Perl 5 is excellent but Perl needs something new
> to get noticed again. That s
On 26/11/2012 12:11, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending
a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing
in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Last week at Hacker
News Network, among a turnout of 500 people, I saw
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 07:05:39AM +, Peter Sergeant wrote:
>
> Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach?
>
No, but that's mostly because I don't find it an interesting, or even
a useful problem to solve. In fact, this "we got to get more people to
Perl&
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 09:25:17AM +, Peter Sergeant wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Mark Blackman wrote:
>
> > On 27 Nov 2012, at 07:05, Peter Sergeant wrote:
> >
> > > Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach?
> >
> > Evangelism
On 27 Nov 2012, at 14:20, Edmund von der Burg wrote:
> To be sure there are some thing that async is awful at. I love it for
> APIs and responding to web requests. Anything short and sweet and
> potentially blocking or concurrent.
For building a moderately complex REST API I found it tedious in t
Hello!
Yes, LPW was great, but where, outside our fishbowl, is perl showing
what it can do and how easily it can do it?
I 100% agree.
It's however easy enough to "infiltrate" at more generic conferences and
show something about Perl. I do it every year at an Open Source Day in
Italy, which
On 27 November 2012 13:14, James Laver wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2012, at 12:51, Edmund von der Burg wrote:
>
>> but I'm now a
>> Node fan boy. The asynchronous approach tickles me. And npm is
>> GLORIOUS. Does this mean that others will like Node - not at all. Try
>> 'em all!
>
> And in one of my talks
On 27 Nov 2012, at 13:10, Bob Walker wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Nov 2012, Edmund von der Burg wrote:
>
>> And npm is GLORIOUS.
>
>
> I cant quite decide if the fact that it installs a module's dependencies in
> the directory of the module you're installing is insane or a very good idea.
I like this
On 27 Nov 2012, at 12:51, Edmund von der Burg wrote:
> but I'm now a
> Node fan boy. The asynchronous approach tickles me. And npm is
> GLORIOUS. Does this mean that others will like Node - not at all. Try
> 'em all!
And in one of my talks at LPW I went into length about why I can't stand
node.
On Tue, 27 Nov 2012, Edmund von der Burg wrote:
And npm is GLORIOUS.
I cant quite decide if the fact that it installs a module's dependencies
in the directory of the module you're installing is insane or a very good
idea.
Also when I last looked it was hard to determine from npm if a mod
On 27 November 2012 12:33, David Cantrell wrote:
> I'll learn a new language if:
> * my needs change and my current language of choice doesn't do what I
> need; or
Yup.
So I used to do Perl because that's what I was hired to do, and
Catalyst is great.
Then a project needed to get started
On 27/11/2012 07:05, Peter Sergeant wrote:
Conveniently buying a car and trying out a new programming language share
are different in at least the outlay of thousands of
dollars/pounds/whatever. Perhaps this is a reason to avoid car analogies
when talking about programming languages.
Thousands
On 27/11/2012, at 22:41, Guinevere Nell wrote:
> ... Now, those who love objects (and there are
> quite a few) might argue that Java is fun, Python is fun, and Perl is
> incredibly frustrating, when it comes to designing nice OO projects. Fine,
> true, good. Perl is fun and enjoyable for many t
On 27 November 2012 07:00, Abigail wrote:
>> Or to put it yet another way: cross learning a different language in the
>> same class as perl (wide field) is clearly trivial for a competent perl
>> programmer (for some value of trivial that implies an initial discount on
>> productivity or billa
On Tuesday, November 27, 2012, Guinevere Nell wrote:
>
> I don't think you can say it about any language - I mean, you *can*, but
> you'd be lying. My guess is that only 1 in 37 programmers that have both
> allocated memory in C and not had to allocate memory in Perl would choose
> to continue to a
>
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> «So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in the
>>> Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses "getting stuff done"
>>> without spending any attention on software life-cycle management. So,
At 07:07 PM 11/26/2012, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
>Daniel Mantovani said:
>>...
>> The solution is simple and we already know that, so let's start talk
>> how fantastic I can solve the problem foo in Perl in a Ruby event,
>> let's talk about Perl in a PostgreSQL event and so go on. And people
>> we wi
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 9:16 AM, Mark Blackman wrote:
> On 27 Nov 2012, at 07:05, Peter Sergeant wrote:
>
> > Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach?
>
> Evangelism in non-perl-specific outlets.
I think this is the right direction.
Perl is often cited as a
On 27 Nov 2012, at 07:05, Peter Sergeant wrote:
> Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach?
Evangelism in non-perl-specific outlets. RoR and PHP
were newcomers once, they had to pull themselves up by
their bootstraps.
Perl had a first-mover advantage which never seemed
to
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:58 PM, Kieren Diment wrote:
> On the technical side, perl supports a number of different programming styles
> - procedural, functional, oo, and others. Python and Ruby are much more tied
> into OO. So it's less likely that a good perl person will need to reach for
>
On 27/11/2012, at 6:05 PM, Peter Sergeant wrote:
> Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach?
It probably got lost in the length of my last post, but my points re this were:
1. Stealing or creating the latest and greatest.
2. Peace and love.
ars/pounds/whatever. Perhaps this is a reason to avoid car analogies
when talking about programming languages.
> For me, the top two reasons I use Perl (and there really isn't a third
> reason):
>
> - It's good enough for most of what I do.
> - I'm just too damn lazy to learn a different language.
>
Great! Now, any ideas how we further Perl outreach?
-P
On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 10:26:37AM +1100, Kieren Diment wrote:
> On 27/11/2012, at 10:13 AM, Abigail wrote:
>
> > For me, the top two reasons I use Perl (and there really isn't a third
> > reason):
> >
> > - It's good enough for most of what I do.
> > - I'm just too damn lazy to learn a diff
On 27/11/2012, at 1:24 PM, Anthony Lucas wrote:
> On 26 November 2012 23:26, Kieren Diment wrote:
>> cross learning a different language in the same class as perl (wide field)
>> is clearly trivial for a competent perl programmer (for some value of
>> trivial that implies an initial discount
On 26 November 2012 23:26, Kieren Diment wrote:
> cross learning a different language in the same class as perl (wide field) is
> clearly trivial for a competent perl programmer (for some value of trivial
> that implies an initial discount on productivity or billable hours).
>
This. 100 times.
On 27/11/2012, at 10:13 AM, Abigail wrote:
> For me, the top two reasons I use Perl (and there really isn't a third
> reason):
>
> - It's good enough for most of what I do.
> - I'm just too damn lazy to learn a different language.
>
I quite agree with this.
> Or, phrased differently, th
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 07:28:23PM +, Peter Sergeant wrote:
> Fundamentally we fail to answer the question "Why Perl?"
>
> Sure the tools are good. But the common view seems to be that for every
> good tool Perl has, Ruby or Python have its own (perhaps superior) version.
> Plack is neat, but
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 09:20:46PM +, Edmund von der Burg wrote:
> Or create an event that is interesting to many groups and make sure
> that Perl has a good contribution to make.
We had quite a sucessful dynamic language event in 2009 involving
(IIRC) Perl PHP JavaScript and prob others.
An
On 27/11/2012, at 8:03 AM, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
> Peter Sergeant said:
>> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
>>>
>>> «So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in the Perl
>>> community saw what happened when one just focuses "getting stuff done"
>>>
On 26 November 2012 15:59, Daniel Mantovani
wrote:
> The solution is simple and we already know that, so let's start talk how
> fantastic I can solve the problem foo in Perl in a Ruby event, let's talk
> about Perl in a PostgreSQL event and so go on. And people we will see Perl
> how Perl reall
Peter Sergeant said:
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
«So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in
the Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses "getting
stuff done" without spending any attention on software life-cycle
management. S
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 8:12 PM, Salve J Nilsen wrote:
>
> «So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in the
> Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses "getting stuff done"
> without spending any attention on software life-cycle management. So, what
> did we lea
Peter Sergeant said:
Fundamentally we fail to answer the question "Why Perl?"
Let's.
Here's my current pitch.
«So you want to write some useful software? Learn from Perl. We in
the Perl community saw what happened when one just focuses "getting
stuff done" without spending any attention o
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Dirk Koopman wrote:
> It isn't that perl isn't "fashionable" any more, it is that it is actively
> being promoted as "unfashionable". People will get fired for "buying" perl.
> Or (yet another analogy): perl is to programming what smoking is to
> workplaces - some
Fundamentally we fail to answer the question "Why Perl?"
Sure the tools are good. But the common view seems to be that for every
good tool Perl has, Ruby or Python have its own (perhaps superior) version.
Plack is neat, but a Perl project named after the Ruby port of a Python
tool isn't a USP.
Fi
On 26/11/12 15:59, Daniel Mantovani wrote:
Dave Hodgkinson, I agree with you.
Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of subjects to
attract people from others groups ?
*The Perl community just do events for Perl community*, and people "afraid" of
Perl will be always ou
Daniel Mantovani said:
Dave Hodgkinson, I agree with you.
Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of
subjects to attract people from others groups ? *The Perl community
just do events for Perl community*, and people "afraid" of Perl will
be always outside from the cir
Dave Hodgkinson, I agree with you.
Why don't we start an event for everybody with different's kind of subjects to
attract people from others groups ?
*The Perl community just do events for Perl community*, and people "afraid" of
Perl will be always outside from the circle.
We should start do ev
On 26/11/2012, at 22:49, andrew-per...@mail.black1.org.uk wrote:
> On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:11:56AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
>>
>> What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending
>> a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing
>> in common: people
There are a number of issues here:
1. Things like mod_php and php-fpm make it really easy and lightweight
to deploy PHP to existing systems. There are packages for every *nix
OS that contain these and they're trivial to install. I believe the
barrier to entry with perl is higher, which makes it le
On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 11:11:56AM +, Dave Hodgkinson wrote:
>
> What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending
> a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing
> in common: people turn their noses up at perl.
Can I make an analogy. I have spent a lot
What with having Copious Free Time recently, I've been attending
a fair few start-up and online tech meetups. They all have one thing
in common: people turn their noses up at perl. Last week at Hacker
News Network, among a turnout of 500 people, I saw one other known
perlmonger. At AngelHack a fe
52 matches
Mail list logo
