[Lubuntu-desktop] Bug? with Panel Preferences

[Steve]

Anybody else noticed  when you click Edit in Panel Preferences to edit an  
Application Launch Bar the second window comes up behind and clicking on  
it doesn’t bring to the front.



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Who is Lubuntu aimed at?

[Angel Alonso Fonseca]

I totally agree, since the main reason I am tracking this Distro is because of 
that.

There are a lot of not-so-new Systems, that could find a second life in helping 
nonprofits, for instance, with the appropriate system on it.


--- El sáb, 30/1/10, Jaime Humberto Cruz Cruz  escribió:

De: Jaime Humberto Cruz Cruz 
Asunto: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Who is Lubuntu aimed at?
Para: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Fecha: sábado, 30 de enero, 2010 18:26

We can add people without enough resources to buy the latest hardware (and yes 
they do exist).

Regards,

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 17:13:58 +0530
Vishal Rao  wrote:

> 2010/1/30 Steve :
> > While replying to mails about which packages should be included in Lubuntu I
> > started to wonder who it is aimed at.
> >
> > Tech savvy users trying to get more use out of old machines.
> > Tech savvy users trying to get more use out of old machines to allow granny
> > to surf the web and mail her MP.
> > New users who don’t want to upset there Windows set up and want to try Linux
> > on their old machine they’ve dragged back out of the garage.
> 
> 
> Can I add a category?
> 
> Non-tech-savvy users (like my aunt) who have old P4s with 512mb RAM and
> nephews (like me) who want them to enjoy Ubuntu base yet if they want can
> easily open a terminal and get as "tech savvy" as they want in there :-)
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Steve]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:40:35 -, David Robert Lewis (ethnopunk)  
 wrote:



`

Steve wrote:
On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:27:58 -, 神癒礁湖   
wrote:



LOL. Discussion about browser is out of the box! :-)

OK, fully agree with Julián Alarcón and Jonay Santana. I'm only a
designer (and was a coder, but not now). Mother's impressions are good
as they are perfect beta testers.

Midori and Arora are the best browser for this release / distro. Arora
was even capable to load complex certificates accesing the tricky
goverment pages (educational ministry, for example) and not Midori. So,
equation gets simple.

We have to keep an eye on speed, easyness and also features, and Midori
lack a bit of functions that are already implemented on Arora.

If anybody wants a geek distro try compiling a minial Gentoo with that
rare fork of KDE. Lubuntu must be installable on any machine with ANY
user.


Not tried Arora, another one to look at.
As the browser is probably the most important piece of software, from a  
users perspective, this has to be got right.  The problem for me is, I  
like my 'bells & whistles" on my browser and find it hard to use some  
of the simpler ones.  I’m quite the opposite with media players, I  
dislike all this play list silliness and other complications.





Chromium is great. However, I still think the distro should be called  
Lewbuntu. :)



I thought LoUbuntu :)



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Andrew Woodhead]

What about Kazehakase which is a stripped down Firefox.

Firefox is a crappy browser once you try other stuff. The only thing I have
seen people sa yits great about is plugins which other browsers are now ok
with.

You failed to mention Arora which is webkit based and fully supports scipts
and ajax. I strongly advise you try it.
-Andy

On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Steve wrote:

> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:18:06 -, Julián Alarcón 
> wrote:
>
> Some notes:
>
> Lubuntu is Ubuntu and free software, so, is not JUST for linux geeks,
> is for all "human beings".
> Lubuntu will be a light OS, so, no big resources. The main goal of
> Lubuntu is to bring Ubuntu to old PCs (here on Colombia many people
> (rural zones) use Pentium II + 256 of RAM + 10 GB DD + 1024x768 max.
> resolution), and, if we can give a complete experience to old
> computers, we'll score!!
>
> * Browse trough a Terminal? Lynx is completely out.
>
> * Chrome is NOT free software [1]
>
> * Chromium really is free software, but, Chromium is NOT a final
> browser,just a development branch, so.. Support for Chromium is
> unknown, but, Chromium is now on Lucid, so, maybe this won't be a
> problem.
>
> * Firefox is great, and Firefox 3.6 rulez! But, is not fast.
>
> * Midori is great, but have some render and identification problems,
> and less features.
>
> * Opera is NOT free software, one less...
>
> So, we have: Firefox, Chromium, and Midori.
>
> * The big faults of Chomium are, no official support (so Midori) from
> Canonical and from Google (Chromium is just a name project for Google)
> AND a big amount of memory use (I'm testing Chromium and with 7 tabs I
> got 815 MB used!!! (No flash guys)).
> Don't think so much on HTML5 (video), my PC waste more CPU watching
> OGG (on Firefox) and h264 (on Chromium) than Flash on both (this is
> sad but true, there are not good video libraries yet)
>
> * Midori is a great tool, not official support from Canonical, but,
> Midori developers are supporting Midori, and this is good. And, Midori
> has been on Ubuntu repos since Hardy, so, we got some experience..
>
> * Firefox is great, but, it's not so fast, and we need something fast
> (remember, old PC's). Firefox have extensions, browser market, support
> from many sites, official support from Canonical and Mozilla,low
> memory use.
>
>
> So, my favorites:
>
> * Midori + Extension to bring "false" identification of Firefox or
> Safari (I like more Firefox ID) to surpass identification problems
>
> * Firefox, keep it simple. Firefox is now a great web browser, and has
> many many people behind.
>
> Having now used Lubuntu on a PII with 128MB RAM, I have to say I tend to
> agree with the above.  Once you open 2 or 3 pages with either Chromium or FF
> the machine can be come quite unresponsive as the poor drive gets thrashed
> with things swapping in an out. Going to try Midori again latter.
>
>
> Note: Don't think on LTS status, I guest that Lubuntu won't be an LTS
> release (just like Kubuntu 8.04).
>
> I think that was me that throw that one in. I just remember the confusion
> with the two KDE 8.04 releases
>
>
>
> [1] http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html
>
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>
> --
> Steve
>
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Joe]

If you want a browser with all the bells and whistles it has to be
Firefox but that doesn't fit with the aims of Lubuntu , although I would
probably personally always have it installed as well as whatever we
chose as the lightweight alternative. (same as I'll always install
open-office but agree that Abiword should be the default Lubuntu app and
I'll use it most of the time) 

I reckon the choices for a lightweight browser which is usable by
non-tecky users are:

Chromium:
+ is very complete and has most of the bells and whistles
- slow to start up and s render pages compared to Midori or Arora
- looks like it uses a lot of memory & CPU when there are lots of tabs
open
- not good with flash

Midori: (I think you need to use 0.2.2 which is in Lucid repos)
+ very fast to open up and load pages
+ does just about everything you NEED a browser to do
+ Flash just works
- doesn't have all the bells and whistles that firefox extensions allow 
+ does have the most important extension features &  plugins build it
(adblock, form filler, flsah viewer, cookie manager, media player,
speed-dial, etc)
+ allows user scripts 
- + some webages say "your webrowser is not supported" BUT remember we
had this problem originally with Firefox? The same solution is available
that we used in the early days of Firefox (PREFERENCES: NETWORK:
Identify as Firefox or Safari)
+ pages render very well (100% on Acid3)

Arora:
= as above since they are very similar browsers
- difference is that Arora is the QT version of Midori or vice versa

My vote goes for Midori 
Chromium would be my second choice
Firefox doesn't fit with Lubuntu but it should be easy to install
perhaps a script in the Internet menu)

If you want to try Midori on a Karmic system it's best to use the newer
version rather than the one in the Ubuntu repos:
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/midori-a-lightweight-web-browser.html


All the best

Joe


On Sun, 2010-01-31 at 10:35 +, Steve wrote:
> On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:18:06 -, Julián Alarcón   
> wrote:
> 
> Some notes:
> 
> Lubuntu is Ubuntu and free software, so, is not JUST for linux geeks,
> is for all "human beings".
> Lubuntu will be a light OS, so, no big resources. The main goal of
> Lubuntu is to bring Ubuntu to old PCs (here on Colombia many people
> (rural zones) use Pentium II + 256 of RAM + 10 GB DD + 1024x768 max.
> resolution), and, if we can give a complete experience to old
> computers, we'll score!!
> 
> * Browse trough a Terminal? Lynx is completely out.
> 
> * Chrome is NOT free software [1]
> 
> * Chromium really is free software, but, Chromium is NOT a final
> browser,just a development branch, so.. Support for Chromium is
> unknown, but, Chromium is now on Lucid, so, maybe this won't be a
> problem.
> 
> * Firefox is great, and Firefox 3.6 rulez! But, is not fast.
> 
> * Midori is great, but have some render and identification problems,
> and less features.
> 
> * Opera is NOT free software, one less...
> 
> So, we have: Firefox, Chromium, and Midori.
> 
> * The big faults of Chomium are, no official support (so Midori) from
> Canonical and from Google (Chromium is just a name project for Google)
> AND a big amount of memory use (I'm testing Chromium and with 7 tabs I
> got 815 MB used!!! (No flash guys)).
> Don't think so much on HTML5 (video), my PC waste more CPU watching
> OGG (on Firefox) and h264 (on Chromium) than Flash on both (this is
> sad but true, there are not good video libraries yet)
> 
> * Midori is a great tool, not official support from Canonical, but,
> Midori developers are supporting Midori, and this is good. And, Midori
> has been on Ubuntu repos since Hardy, so, we got some experience..
> 
> * Firefox is great, but, it's not so fast, and we need something fast
> (remember, old PC's). Firefox have extensions, browser market, support
>  from many sites, official support from Canonical and Mozilla,low
> memory use.
> 
> 
> So, my favorites:
> 
> * Midori + Extension to bring "false" identification of Firefox or
> Safari (I like more Firefox ID) to surpass identification problems
> 
> * Firefox, keep it simple. Firefox is now a great web browser, and has
> many many people behind.
> 
> Having now used Lubuntu on a PII with 128MB RAM, I have to say I tend to  
> agree with the above.  Once you open 2 or 3 pages with either Chromium or  
> FF the machine can be come quite unresponsive as the poor drive gets  
> thrashed with things swapping in an out. Going to try Midori again latter.
> 
> 
> Note: Don't think on LTS status, I guest that Lubuntu won't be an LTS
> release (just like Kubuntu 8.04).
> 
> I think that was me that throw that one in. I just remember the confusion  
> with the two KDE 8.04 releases
> 
> 
> 
> [1] http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html
> 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Shabab Mustafa]

Hello there,

In my opinion, I think we should keep in mind about the RAM consumption for
the first place for Lubuntu. It really should run smooth in PCs with 128 MB
or lower RAM capacity. Because, in 512MB Ubuntu can run. In 192 MB, Xubuntu
can run easily. But in 128 MB or 96 MB of RAM no distro of Ubuntu family
runs at all. If anyone has better Hardware capacity, they have options to
use heavier distros with enriched features. Or may install additional
softwares upon Lubuntu as their own requirement. On the other hand, the
lower capable PCs has no options at all (with Ubuntu Family distros).

Lubuntu should be lighter than Xubuntu. Otherwise, their is no point to
pursue for a new member of the Ubuntu Family.

+1 for Arora.
---
Shabab Mustafa



On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Leszek Lesner  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I tested Chromium on a eeePC 701 (633 MHz Intel Celeron, 512 MB RAM) . It
> is running very well.
>
> Regards,
> Leszek Lesner
>
> On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:01:41 -0500
> John Collier  wrote:
>
> > Since memory may be an issue on certain machines, I'd suggest maybe
> Dillo, but due to the lack of support for multiple things (i.e scripts) I
> won't.
> >
> > Has anyone tested Chromium on such a machine yet to see how well it runs?
> >
> > John.
> > ___
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Leszek Lesner]

Hi,

I tested Chromium on a eeePC 701 (633 MHz Intel Celeron, 512 MB RAM) . It is 
running very well. 

Regards,
Leszek Lesner

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:01:41 -0500
John Collier  wrote:

> Since memory may be an issue on certain machines, I'd suggest maybe Dillo, 
> but due to the lack of support for multiple things (i.e scripts) I won't.
> 
> Has anyone tested Chromium on such a machine yet to see how well it runs?
> 
> John.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Steve]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:27:58 -, 神癒礁湖   
wrote:



LOL. Discussion about browser is out of the box! :-)

OK, fully agree with Julián Alarcón and Jonay Santana. I'm only a
designer (and was a coder, but not now). Mother's impressions are good
as they are perfect beta testers.

Midori and Arora are the best browser for this release / distro. Arora
was even capable to load complex certificates accesing the tricky
goverment pages (educational ministry, for example) and not Midori. So,
equation gets simple.

We have to keep an eye on speed, easyness and also features, and Midori
lack a bit of functions that are already implemented on Arora.

If anybody wants a geek distro try compiling a minial Gentoo with that
rare fork of KDE. Lubuntu must be installable on any machine with ANY
user.


Not tried Arora, another one to look at.
As the browser is probably the most important piece of software, from a  
users perspective, this has to be got right.  The problem for me is, I  
like my 'bells & whistles" on my browser and find it hard to use some of  
the simpler ones.  I’m quite the opposite with media players, I dislike  
all this play list silliness and other complications.



--
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Steve]

On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:18:06 -, Julián Alarcón   
wrote:


Some notes:

Lubuntu is Ubuntu and free software, so, is not JUST for linux geeks,
is for all "human beings".
Lubuntu will be a light OS, so, no big resources. The main goal of
Lubuntu is to bring Ubuntu to old PCs (here on Colombia many people
(rural zones) use Pentium II + 256 of RAM + 10 GB DD + 1024x768 max.
resolution), and, if we can give a complete experience to old
computers, we'll score!!

* Browse trough a Terminal? Lynx is completely out.

* Chrome is NOT free software [1]

* Chromium really is free software, but, Chromium is NOT a final
browser,just a development branch, so.. Support for Chromium is
unknown, but, Chromium is now on Lucid, so, maybe this won't be a
problem.

* Firefox is great, and Firefox 3.6 rulez! But, is not fast.

* Midori is great, but have some render and identification problems,
and less features.

* Opera is NOT free software, one less...

So, we have: Firefox, Chromium, and Midori.

* The big faults of Chomium are, no official support (so Midori) from
Canonical and from Google (Chromium is just a name project for Google)
AND a big amount of memory use (I'm testing Chromium and with 7 tabs I
got 815 MB used!!! (No flash guys)).
Don't think so much on HTML5 (video), my PC waste more CPU watching
OGG (on Firefox) and h264 (on Chromium) than Flash on both (this is
sad but true, there are not good video libraries yet)

* Midori is a great tool, not official support from Canonical, but,
Midori developers are supporting Midori, and this is good. And, Midori
has been on Ubuntu repos since Hardy, so, we got some experience..

* Firefox is great, but, it's not so fast, and we need something fast
(remember, old PC's). Firefox have extensions, browser market, support
from many sites, official support from Canonical and Mozilla,low
memory use.


So, my favorites:

* Midori + Extension to bring "false" identification of Firefox or
Safari (I like more Firefox ID) to surpass identification problems

* Firefox, keep it simple. Firefox is now a great web browser, and has
many many people behind.

Having now used Lubuntu on a PII with 128MB RAM, I have to say I tend to  
agree with the above.  Once you open 2 or 3 pages with either Chromium or  
FF the machine can be come quite unresponsive as the poor drive gets  
thrashed with things swapping in an out. Going to try Midori again latter.



Note: Don't think on LTS status, I guest that Lubuntu won't be an LTS
release (just like Kubuntu 8.04).

I think that was me that throw that one in. I just remember the confusion  
with the two KDE 8.04 releases




[1] http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[神癒礁湖]

LOL. Discussion about browser is out of the box! :-)

OK, fully agree with Julián Alarcón and Jonay Santana. I'm only a
designer (and was a coder, but not now). Mother's impressions are good
as they are perfect beta testers.

Midori and Arora are the best browser for this release / distro. Arora
was even capable to load complex certificates accesing the tricky
goverment pages (educational ministry, for example) and not Midori. So,
equation gets simple.

We have to keep an eye on speed, easyness and also features, and Midori
lack a bit of functions that are already implemented on Arora.

If anybody wants a geek distro try compiling a minial Gentoo with that
rare fork of KDE. Lubuntu must be installable on any machine with ANY
user.



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser

[Andrew Woodhead]

+1 for chromium. although Arora is lighter and webkit based so +1 there too

On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 7:58 PM, Jonay Santana wrote:

>
>
> On Sat, Jan 30, 2010 at 11:23 AM, Matteo Pagliazzi <
> matteopaglia...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello, i'm matteo an italian user.
>> For me the best browser for lubuntu is Chromium because is light, very
>> fast, well-know and have extension.
>> For me firefox is too fat.
>>
>>
>>
>   Agreed. Also I want to de-promote the use of Opera, a privative browser
> (even when it is a quite good one) doesn't fit very well with a standard
> installation of *buntu.
>
> --
>
> Jonay
>
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