Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Zentyal

2010-11-11 Thread Liam Proven
On Thu, Nov 11, 2010 at 6:24 AM, Andrew Woodhead
andrew.woodhead...@gmail.com wrote:
 A server OS with an X server, thats so not right

Hey, neither is top-quoting, spelling that's without an apostrophe
or ending a sentence without a full stop.

Zentyal is not bad, actually. It doesn't need a GUI, but like Ubuntu,
it's not optional - you get what they give you. And at least it's a
low-resource GUI.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Fw: Re: People having trouble with dualboots?

2010-11-03 Thread Liam Proven
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote:
 The workaround for this issue is simple and should be included in the wiki
 until the problem is solved.
 To get around this run sudo apt-get install os-prober. Run sudo os-prober
 and then sudo update-grub.

Very handy hint - thanks for this. I had been wondering how to
reinstate Crunchbang, the OS which I dual-boot with Lubuntu on my old
notebook. Adding os-prober was enough; Lubuntu added Crunchbang to its
menu all by itself. Nice one!

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] cmov

2010-10-21 Thread Liam Proven
On 21 October 2010 11:59, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:
 Am 21.10.2010 12:38, schrieb PCMan:
 Is there any chance that we keep supporting these old machines?
 I don't see any reason to force the use of i686.
 Only the compiler flags need to be changed.
 All programs should be able to be compiled with i586.
 If supporting i586 is not allowed by Canonical, then I personally
 think we need a fork.

 Thats somehow insane. The community isn't big enough to host a fork.
 A fork would mean copy the whole ubuntu repo and recompile everything
 for i586.

Does it? How many packages are compiled for 686? Or is it only the kernel?

It need not be as big as a whole fork. CentOS is not forked off Red
Hat, it just recompiles RHEL's free source code.

 (Forking/)Taking  the kernel package and add support for i586 and put
 it in the ppa would be much more appropiate.

That's true.

 Or perhaps Canonical agrees to build special i586 enabled kernels that
 lubuntu can use.

Hmm. Maybe. Would they be willing, though?

 A distro aimed to provide best desktop experience for old and limited
 machines doesn't run on old machines at all. This is really ironic,
 isn't it?

 Yes that is kind of strange ;)

Someone is going to have to do this soon. CentOS 5 is dropping support
for 586 as well, which presumably means that Fedora already has. I
think only Debian and Slackware still support 486/586.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu project questions - again

2009-07-23 Thread Liam Proven
2009/7/23 David Robert Lewis ethnop...@telkomsa.net:
 Dear Liam,

 Just a note to voice my concern 192mb is really the Xubuntu spec

Absolutely.

 and the
 LXDE project is not providing anything new.

Do you mean LXDE or Lubuntu?

 I am right now busy wringing my
 hands, with a pain in my head, wondering why there is absolutely nothing I
 can do for poor neighbourhoods and the Windows 95 and 98 crowd.

I agree.

 Believe it
 or not, I would be installing Lubuntu now, if it were available. U-lite is
 all good and well, but it is more Windows 2000 territory.

Interesting. You feel that U-lite is aiming at too high a spec?

 A major problem is there is not enough RAM in the country, and we are pretty
 developed compared to the rest of Africa. I had a machine the other day
 running 1.8Ghz but with only 128mb Ram. What can one do, but continue to
 install Windows 98?

Indeed so. You don't specify where the country is, or who we are, though.

 Lubuntu should aspire to being the backbone for the Ubuntu Gandhi Remix
 Edition, see thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1210681

Um. To be honest, I took that to be a joke post.

 it
 should create an attractive desktop that revolutionises computing by making
 low-ram computing possible. Doesn't matter what speed the processor is, RAM
 is everything when it comes to installing. And in a world with virtually no
 net access, please do not expect the seed method to work. I have yet to see
 it work without premium bandwidth.

 So barebones LXDE please.

 --David.

 PS I lived on 8mb of ram on an 80mb hardrive for nearly five years, It was
 an apple, and it gave me great pleasure, why can't ubuntu do the same thing?

Well, quite.

 --
 888          8 8                    8  8d8b. .d88 8 .d8b. Yb  dP 8   8 8  8P
 Y8 8  8 8 8' .8  YbdP  8b d8 888 8   8 `Y88 8 `Y8P'   YP   `Y8P8

Pardon?

I think that the basic point here is that it's very easy for
developers and users alike with multi-gigaHertz machines with gigs of
RAM and many megabits of broadband access to forget that there are
people with /no/ Internet access, not even dial-up, and for whom
10-15y old PCs are all they have access to.

In the UK there is a charity called Computer Aid:
http://www.computeraid.org/

They do not accept machines below what I consider quite a high spec -
broadly, Pentium IV Processor rated at 1.4 Ghz upwards:
http://www.computeraid.org/whatpc.htm

And they almost exclusively use MS software. I suspect they may even
be sponsored by MS.

Windows 95 caused a massive boom in the PC industry. Many of those
machines still work and there is not much in the way of FOSS software
to run on them any more. Vector Linux once supported them but not any
more. Puppy Linux (which is OK but always runs as root, which is a
horrible massive security hole) and DamnSmallLinux will run on them
reasonably, but both are LiveCDs - whereas many machines of this age
can't boot from CD. Neither is elegant or neat in the way it installs
to disk and neither can readily be updated afterwards.

We really need a lightweight, upgradable, Debian-based Linux for
*really* low-end kit.

From what I have read, Lubuntu is just going to be another respin of
Ubuntu with a different desktop and no use for this kind of PC at all.
As such, I predict it will sink into invisibility and obscurity.

Linux once ran on such kit. There's no reason it should not any more.

I reckon the target for decent, usable performance should be:

486DX4/100 or so
64MB RAM
1.2GB disk
ISA network and sound
boot from floppy, install from CD or over the network

Anything that ran on this would go like stink on a Pentium 1 machine
with 128MB and 4G of disk - a good box for Windows 98 from 10-12y or
so ago.

Even in London, I can and do give away such machines very quickly and
easily on Freecycle, even today.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu project questions - again

2009-07-23 Thread Liam Proven
To reply to the message that I forwarded earlier:

2009/7/23 Andrew Woodhead andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com:
 In my opinion:

 1- what will Lubuntu offer that any other version of *buntu does not offer?

 Lubuntu will offer a reactive DE, XUbuntu previously offered this but seems
 to have lost sight of its target

I would like to hear some evidence of this. I have tried both and
certainly Xubuntu seems lighter than GNOME to me.

 2- what kind of performance increase shall we see with Lubuntu?

 LXDE is a very light DE so much less RAM is used over Gnome or KDE. Most of
 the default apps chosen are also light on the system which preserves its
 snappines. Obviously users are free to remove and add heavier more feature
 rich options but the default aims to provide a decent level of performance.

That is, if I may say so, a bit of a cop-out. Just a lighter-weight
desktop with the same suite of relatively heavyweight apps will make
relatively little overall difference to the RAM or disk footprint of
a distro.

And for what it's worth, I've tried full GNOME Ubuntu recently on a
couple of low-end machines: at Yule, on a Pentium II 400MHz with 256MB
of RAM, and more recently, on an Athlon 750MHz with 192MB RAM. Both
had 20GB EIDE hard disks and DVD-ROM drives. It works very well,
booting significantly quicker than Windows 2000 and running quite
well. Applications do load slowly, but they are usable; switching apps
is slow, and the systems bogged down if lots of apps were loaded, but
one at a time, they were fine.

I also tried Xubuntu on the PII system. It was no quicker, and
significantly, for a beginner, I was not able to lock the system down
by, for instance, locking icons and controls into place on the panel.

What I conclude from this is:

[1] that actually, current Ubuntu copes quite well with a low-end
Windows XP or even Windows 2000 PC. The small benefits offered by
Xubuntu are not really worth the drop in functionality of the simpler
desktop and they don't make the distro any more suitable to low-end
hardware.

[2] to effectively target low-end machines that cannot usefully run
Windows XP or 2000, we need to do something considerably more drastic
than just swap the desktop environment.

 4- is Lxde ready for its own *Buntu variant?

 Sure is, There is even MoonOS but it is not an official release. The other
 'major' DEs have their own release so why not LXDE.

The answer to the question why not is: what benefit does it bring?
Why should someone use Lubuntu instead of Ubuntu itself?

 5- how will Lubuntu compared to Xubuntu in terms of GB install, Ram
 usage, performance and functionality?

 http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=120972

 LXDE is lighter which will free up more resources for user apps on mid range
 systems, and allow older systems to be used.

As I've commented above, on its own, this is not enough.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu Project Q's

2009-07-08 Thread Liam Proven
2009/7/8 Dallas Wiebelhaus wiebelh...@gmail.com:
 The U-Lite Creator Shae Smittle is on board for this endeavor:

 http://u-lite.org/content/status-updates

I know. He told me about this product and this list. He's helping you
out, giving you guys the benefit of his experience; what are *you*
guys doing for *him*?

 You guys should relax , these things take a while and everyone is busy ,

Relax? I ask a series of serious questions, you give me a quick
brush-off, don't answer any of them and *you* tell *me* I should
relax? I'm incredulous!

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