Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Yes, I do remember but have you seen the long list of dependences that come with it? :) I'm afraid with 242MB RAM, I may not get what I really want - just a thought. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote: As I mentioned it before ksysguard is the only tool that gives numbers that are reasonable. The other way would be going into /proc and check it manually -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer -- Am 12.11.2011 21:49 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Hi everyone, Being little sick and having problems with sleeping, I wasn't able to do much regarding the test. Above all, I'm having different readings using some of the tools which have been mentioned here. I'm not sure what to do? each tool is having different readings than the other. I'm mainly using LXTask and GNOME System Monitor. Each one is showing different process for example LXTask is showing 3 process for Chromium while GNOME System Monitor is showing 5. Firefox as always will be shown as one process or two sometimes (plugin-container). I think there must be a better efficient tool to do this benchmark. I don't think it should be done manually. I'll keep looking ... Thanks! P.S. Just thought to update you about that. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.comwrote: Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.dewrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
What has the ram size todo with the harddisk space the app and it dependencies use ?-- Gesendet von meinem HP VeerAm 12.11.2011 21:57 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Yes, I do remember but have you seen the long list of dependences that come with it? :)Im afraid with 242MB RAM, I may not get what I really want - just a thought. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote: As I mentioned it before ksysguard is the only tool that gives numbers that are reasonable. The other way would be going into /proc and check it manually -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer Am 12.11.2011 21:49 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Hi everyone,Being little sick and having problems with sleeping, I wasnt able to do much regarding the test. Above all, Im having different readings using some of the tools which have been mentioned here. Im not sure what to do? each tool is having different readings than the other. Im mainly using LXTask and GNOME System Monitor. Each one is showing different process for example LXTask is showing 3 process for Chromium while GNOME System Monitor is showing 5. Firefox as always will be shown as one process or two sometimes (plugin-container). I think there must be a better efficient tool to do this benchmark. I dont think it should be done manually.Ill keep looking ...Thanks!P.S.Just thought to update you about that. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Guys,With all due respect to EVERYONE, Im not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as its and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntus Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. Im ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because Im having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, its apt-get install and mission accomplished.IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.Im out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- Ill do my test and send it via mailing list.2- Ill write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone.I dont mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but thats my point after all. Disagree but dont disrespect is my motto :) CyaOn Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Lets not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isnt that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Lets not start a war here... I dont want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I dont want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so its a bit harder to know whats really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While Im not a Google-hater, I think its very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, Ill let Julien
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
With LXTask and GNOME System Monitor opened along side with a browser, that was already slow. I haven't tried the app you suggested so I was JUST wondering, that is all :) On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:01 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote: What has the ram size todo with the harddisk space the app and it dependencies use ? -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer -- Am 12.11.2011 21:57 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Yes, I do remember but have you seen the long list of dependences that come with it? :) I'm afraid with 242MB RAM, I may not get what I really want - just a thought. On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote: As I mentioned it before ksysguard is the only tool that gives numbers that are reasonable. The other way would be going into /proc and check it manually -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer -- Am 12.11.2011 21:49 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Hi everyone, Being little sick and having problems with sleeping, I wasn't able to do much regarding the test. Above all, I'm having different readings using some of the tools which have been mentioned here. I'm not sure what to do? each tool is having different readings than the other. I'm mainly using LXTask and GNOME System Monitor. Each one is showing different process for example LXTask is showing 3 process for Chromium while GNOME System Monitor is showing 5. Firefox as always will be shown as one process or two sometimes (plugin-container). I think there must be a better efficient tool to do this benchmark. I don't think it should be done manually. I'll keep looking ... Thanks! P.S. Just thought to update you about that. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.comwrote: Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.dewrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 17:03:14 -0500 James King jlki...@gmail.com wrote: What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each continues to improve. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, amjjawad Lubuntu One Stop
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Maybe it should be a bug/feature for ubiquity? Just an idea. With metta, Chris On Nov 10, 2011 5:37 PM, Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 17:03:14 -0500 James King jlki...@gmail.com wrote: What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each continues to improve. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products.
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Bonjour Jean-Pierre, I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. It's like Ali said, it's just a script which does some automated actions, like see what the CPU usage and MEM consumption. The idea for now is just shutting down all current processes of chromium-browser/firefox (or just checking if it's already running or completely shutting down) and starting a default set of tabs. That way the results should be comparable and doable for every machine. With metta, Chris P.S.: I still need to look into the performance test-suite of Tom's Hardware what that does exactly. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/09/2011 01:55 AM, Chris wrote: P.S.: I still need to look into the performance test-suite of Tom's Hardware what that does exactly Not sure about Tom's but I couldn't find any really good solutions for benchmarking (I was sniffing around OpenBenchmarking) browsers outside of silly stuff like Java and such. I certainly couldn't find anything that could reliably, repeatably measure startup speed. I think that's going to be our most contentious issue with this project. wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Am 09.11.2011 10:55, schrieb Chris: Bonjour Jean-Pierre, I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. It's like Ali said, it's just a script which does some automated actions, like see what the CPU usage and MEM consumption. The idea for now is just shutting down all current processes of chromium-browser/firefox (or just checking if it's already running or completely shutting down) and starting a default set of tabs. That way the results should be comparable and doable for every machine. With metta, Chris Its somehow funny to see everyone trying to look into the memory consumption of firefox vs. chromium. But I just want keep in mind that those aren't the only criteria for firefox vs. chromium. Don't forget to compare them feature wise. In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Also the startup time of chromium is still far better than the one of firefox. Chromium also offers some little nice features like a incognito mode that can be used alongside with the normal browsing mode (which firefox does not have, as it closes the 'normal' browser and opens with a incognito profile) The memory consumption is nearly the same. Chromium seems to have a lower memory consumption when it comes to a few open tabs. If you have more than 5 tabs open firefox might be lower on memory consumption but this is only my impression so far(I did not do any tests on it). If you want to dig deep into the materia I guess reading out /proc processes is the right way to go, or you could use the kde systemmonitor (sysguard) which offers the most accurate memory consumption details of all the systemmonitors so far (even giving you a list of /proc processes it analyzed) All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Should we consider Epiphany too or it is not stable enough yet? Gabriel Salles 2011/11/9 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
This all sounds like personal preference and subjective arguments to me. After all, users can install whatever browser they desire. Personally, I wish Lubuntu would boot as fast as it used to. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Freedom is not free. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion.I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* Could NOT agree more :) Well said! I second this: *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:55 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.com wrote: Should we consider Epiphany too or it is not stable enough yet? Gabriel Salles Quoting Julien: We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Again, what is the goal of this? If the goal is to find the lighter of the two, will Lubuntu test and choose the lightest with each release? Does Lubuntu want to be constantly changing browsers? Dose Lubuntu care if it's open source? I agree it should be one of the two mentioned. I think Lubuntu should choose one and stick with it as long as it doesn't substantially fall behind the other. I don't think Lubuntu should split hairs over benchmarks. If the two are close, move on to the next question. So what is the long range stance on this. Lightest no matter what or lightweight balanced of other criteria? Tim On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Ok, on the PC where I'm planning to do the test, the reading of both LXTask and GNOME System Monitor are equal now :) http://i39.tinypic.com/10ym7me.jpg I don't know what is wrong with my Lubuntu 11.04? it's acting crazy recently. Will try to do the test today and will let you know :) On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:34 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion.I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* Could NOT agree more :) Well said! I second this: *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.* On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:55 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad |
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 09/11/11 16:30, b g wrote: This all sounds like personal preference and subjective arguments to me. After all, users can install whatever browser they desire. Personally, I wish Lubuntu would boot as fast as it used to. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com mailto:andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features. We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and Chromium, use the least resources. We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away. Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com mailto:jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de mailto:leszek.les...@web.de wrote: In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported) Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for other tabs. Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the better features. That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with Firefox Sync than with Google's version. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net mailto:lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net mailto:lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop https://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Freedom is not free. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp I'm new-ish. How fast did it used to boot? -- Sent from a linux laptop! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to :
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each continues to improve. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Guys, With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more? I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information. I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA. I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished. IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk. I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you: 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list. 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone. I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect is my motto :) Cya On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic: Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer. Isn't that the same ? I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM. I guess that is a low machine. If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish. Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such personal opinions out of this discussion. If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good arguments. And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the advantages and disadvantages of both browsers. Google is dropping H264 support: http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html Google Chrome != Chromium Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so it's a bit harder to know what's really going on. At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one tab cannot crash the whole browser. While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help maintain Chromium). I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their existens. And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free software products. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, amjjawad Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread) My Wiki Page | My Launchpad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || I walk by faith, not by sight || Imagination is more important than
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com Guys, I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on? I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add *100MB* to that. Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB. Any idea? I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Please use command 'free -m' to see RAM usage. The thing that interests you most is buffers/cache and used.Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset kirjoitti 8.11.2011 14:58: 2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com Guys, I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on? I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add 100MB to that. Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB. Any idea? I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Aloha Benny, The command you are using isn't very accurate to only chromium-browser/firefox. You'd need to run it twice (before and during the test) to get a number on what chromium or ff is using. Therefor using a method the pulls in these numbers automatically by process id's or similar. @Walter: That kill -n command only kills the different processes or tabs in chromium (haven't tested it on ff yet), but not the window itself. Maybe something like killall chromium-browser will work, but we'd need to figure out if that is necessary? With metta, Chris On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 16:02, Benny Hult hul...@gmail.com wrote: Please use command 'free -m' to see RAM usage. The thing that interests you most is buffers/cache and used.Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset kirjoitti 8.11.2011 14:58: 2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com Guys, I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on? I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add 100MB to that. Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB. Any idea? I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
It's true that I have both Ubuntu 11.04 (which I'll get rid of soon) and Lubuntu 11.04 installed but just to be extra clear, I'm just using Lubuntu 11.04 as I'm writing this. I have LXTask (installed by default) and I have installed recently System Monitor too. The figures are not the same. If some of you think conky is not accurate then let's ignore it but still, I'm having two different readings. Anyway, lovinglinux, an add-on developer for Firefox and Ubuntu Forum Moderator has suggested to use about:memory. The test that I'm willing to do is on another PC (P4 with 256MB RAM) and it has fresh new Lubuntu 11.10 installed. Thanks! P.S. Jean-Pierre I don't think Dual-Booting Ubuntu and Lubuntu has anything to do with that extra 100MB IMHO. Each on different partition and each has its own files, etc. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.comwrote: 2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com Guys, I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on? I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add *100MB* to that. Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB. Any idea? I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/ ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed... readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/8/11 9:43 AM, Chris wrote: That kill -n command only kills the different processes or tabs in chromium (haven't tested it on ff yet), but not the window itself. Maybe something like killall chromium-browser will work, but we'd need to figure out if that is necessary? Worked for me! Of course, this is relevant assuming that script idea I had would work (re: testing opening speed). wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/8/11 2:26 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote: Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed... readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :) ...which confirms my suspicion that Ubuntu + lubuntu-desktop even with the other KDE/Gnome/XFCE packages removed, is still not Lubuntu. I found processor usage to be completely different between a native install and this roundabout solution. wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. My machine is P4 @3GHz - 1M Cache. RAM is 512MB which can be dropped to 256MB. One browser will be running at one time and reading will be written down. Then the other browser will be running and same scenario applies. Then, we compare between the readings. With newer machines, users shouldn't notice any difference. With old machine, I think it might be some differences. Only test will tell :) I think my machine will be a good match for such test. It's a desktop. By the way, the HDD is IDE so it's typical old :) Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed... readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :) If you check ALL my posts on Ubuntu Forum, you'll find out that I always keep telling the users that installing lubuntu-desktop is NOT like installing Lubuntu itself from LiveCD or LiveUSB. *I see that Walter agrees with me* :) On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:26 AM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.comwrote: I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3 4 and 256 to 512 ram. Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed... readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/08/2011 01:39 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA wrote: If some of you think conky is not accurate then let's ignore it but still, I'm having two different readings. As I understand it the top object in conky should be just like the command top. My experience says it's way off. Anyway, lovinglinux, an add-on developer for Firefox and Ubuntu Forum Moderator has suggested to use about:memory. This works in both applications. In Firefox, the vsize and resident measurements track well with VM-Size and RSS in lxtask. In Chromium, it redirects to chrome://memory-redirect/ and will even list other browsers. While this would be a boon for testing, as it wouldn't require another program to view its memory usage, it seems to be slightly off (~2-4MB low) in terms of reporting resident usage of Firefox. chrome://memory-redirect/ Regarding itself, I'm not too shocked it's off due to the fact that the memory used to report the memory isn't included. However, even though it breaks down the various processes, it seems to grossly under-report. For the main chromium-browser process (Browser in about:memory) it's off by about 20MB; the secondary one (Sandbox Helper) about 7MB; the chromium-browse process (Tab) about 17MB; and the chromium-browser -type=zygote process (Zygote) about 7MB. chrome://memory-redirect/ So in the end, it's not reliable. And because we can't use tools inside BOTH browsers to check memory usage, I suggest we forget about using about:memory. chrome://memory-redirect/ wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Guys, I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on? I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add *100MB* to that. Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB. Any idea? Thanks! On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 5:21 AM, ∅ maps.backw...@gmail.com wrote: I like the idea of a script.. at least for most of it. The one bugaboo will be doing start up and shut down tests. Maybe we could use an appropriate signal? I'm not sure which one would be used to cleanly shutdown the program, but, for example, with SIGTERM we could do: kill -n 15 $(pidof firefox) kill -n 15 $(pidof chromium-browse) We need to know what systems these are being run on. Therefore: uname -srov lsb_release -a cat /proc/cpuinfo cat /proc/meminfo We need to use new/fresh profiles. So: firefox -CreateProfile foo firefox -P foo space separated list of URLs to be opened in tabs chromium-browser --user-data-dir=foo space separated list of URLs to be opened in tabs One problem with this is that Chromium defaults to loading a choice of search engines.. so it's not technically started up. It IS important we use as many tabs as reasonable. There tends to be a bit of diversion in performance between browsers depending on the number of tabs opened. As for getting resource usage, I'm thinking that a good solution would be to use proc. Rather than try to follow a moving target (e.g. lxtask), something more static might be useful: cat /proc/$(pidof firefox) cat /proc/$(pidof chromium-browse) wxl/walter __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~**lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.**launchpad.netlubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~**lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My Launchpadhttps://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profile http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words ||** ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short* ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Epihany is pretty good since 3.0, very stable.Midori became pretty much an Elementary browser and looks a little odd now, but Epiphany is well integrated, it looks like a cute mini Firefox.I believe dependencies are like Midori.Epiphany used to be not as good as Midori but the GNOME-devs worked real hard, and it shows.With Epiphany we are 100% sure we have GTK3 and there are more developers then Midori has. If you try, don´t install epiphany but epiphany-browser, because epiphany is a game. :P -Glenn Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 19:57:02 -0200 From: gabrielper...@gmail.com To: amjja...@gmail.com CC: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium? Lubuntu 12.04 will be GTK3, and Chromium will still be GTK2. So, to the next version, Chromium will be heavyweight. I think most of the people agree that Midori isn't really an option, and I never tested Arora to give my opinion about this one. .In a way or another, I believe that the best option for now if Firefox. Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/05/2011 05:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Tom's Hardware regularly benchmarks browsers, but sadly only under Windows and OS X. The relevant page (Memory Efficiency) for a recent test is at: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-14.html If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium. Does anyone on the list have the experience, willingness and time to run some documented and repeatable benchmarks of Chromium and FF7 under Lubuntu in low RAM machines for us? Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Are those benchmarks from Tom's Hardware documented at all? Maybe we could rebuild those benchmarks for linux? When they are run on a low-spec machine then the results should be the same on other machines. User tests should be done to verify the results aren't just laboratory results. I might be interested to builds those benchmarks systems, but would need help with making them. With metta, Chris On Nov 6, 2011 8:45 AM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 11/05/2011 05:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Tom's Hardware regularly benchmarks browsers, but sadly only under Windows and OS X. The relevant page (Memory Efficiency) for a recent test is at: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-14.html If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium. Does anyone on the list have the experience, willingness and time to run some documented and repeatable benchmarks of Chromium and FF7 under Lubuntu in low RAM machines for us? Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I have a P4 PC with 512MB RAM but I can drop that to 256. I'm ready for such tests ;) Also, I think it's important to ask the users to vote for that, not only us. I can start a thread on Ubuntu Forum but I need to hear first from Julien and others about that. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fmwrote: On 11/05/2011 05:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Tom's Hardware regularly benchmarks browsers, but sadly only under Windows and OS X. The relevant page (Memory Efficiency) for a recent test is at: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-14.html If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium. Does anyone on the list have the experience, willingness and time to run some documented and repeatable benchmarks of Chromium and FF7 under Lubuntu in low RAM machines for us? Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another browser. But, this is my opinion : - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...). - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it). - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine. So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Regards, Julien Lavergne I DO AGREE with each and every word, period :) On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi, I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another browser. But, this is my opinion : - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...). - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it). - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine. So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Regards, Julien Lavergne On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I also agree. Both browsers are widely accepted work equally well for general use. I think the question should be a) do we want to pick one and stick with it for the sake of consistency or b) always choose the lightest of the two?Tim-- Sent from my HP TouchPadOn Nov 5, 2011 9:07 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi, I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another browser. But, this is my opinion : - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...). - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it). - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine. So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Regards, Julien Lavergne On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 "A. Andjelkovic" andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Le 11/06/2011 09:24 AM, Ali Linx a écrit : Also, I think it's important to ask the users to vote for that, not only us. I can start a thread on Ubuntu Forum but I need to hear first from Julien and others about that. Oh please don't, I imagine the mess and trolls for this tread :) And also, it's not only a question of popularity, we need to consider other aspects. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
@ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks? I'm saying it so we can compare our results :) Whatever in your mind, let me know and I'll be more than glad to do it :) Don't have specific ideas at the time being. I'm willing to open many tabs and monitor that. Don't have special tools to do such job. On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.comwrote: Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0. Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail: Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm missing? (i've only looked at the processes called chromium-browser) The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less dependencies). I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine... @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks? I'm saying it so we can compare our results :) -- JpXsat __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~**lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.**launchpad.netlubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~**lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Oh please don't, I imagine the mess and trolls for this tread :) And also, it's not only a question of popularity, we need to consider other aspects. Yes, I realized it could be a bad idea for now. Let's first decide, we as a team then we can go public. So, I just sent to Jean-Pierre. Any thing specific in your mind to test and compare these two browser? I have a P4 and can drop my RAM to 256MB (it shows 242MB actually on the Task Manager). Let me know :) On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Le 11/06/2011 09:24 AM, Ali Linx a écrit : Also, I think it's important to ask the users to vote for that, not only us. I can start a thread on Ubuntu Forum but I need to hear first from Julien and others about that. Oh please don't, I imagine the mess and trolls for this tread :) And also, it's not only a question of popularity, we need to consider other aspects. Regards, Julien Lavergne -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Le 11/06/2011 08:45 AM, Jonathan Marsden a écrit : If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium. Yes, it missed 2 points : - memory management on Linux (we can't rely on Windows one to do proper comparison on Linux) - memory usage on a limited device At least, it shows that Firefox is probably much better than when we done the switch to Chromium. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Thanks for the tests. You can also use about:memory of Chromium, to have a second source of information. Regards, Julien Lavergne Le 11/06/2011 04:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset a écrit : Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0. Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail: Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm missing? (i've only looked at the processes called chromium-browser) The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less dependencies). I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine... @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks? I'm saying it so we can compare our results :) -- JpXsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Just finished some testing using: Chromium 15.0.874.102 Firefox 7.0.1 No extensions, no tab history (tabs are clean). 1 tab (logged into gmail) chromium-browser: 50.1 + 24.7 + 9.1 = 83.9 MB firefox: 97.2 MB 2 tabs (logged into gmail, ubuntuforums.org) chromium-browser: 54.5 + 24.7 + 9.1 = 88.3 MB firefox: 97.4 MB Summary: Not only does Chromium start slightly faster, it still has lower memory usage with few tabs running. Firefox has improved A LOT however, we should keep our eyes open in the future. I don't know how much the gtk2 vs gtk3 issue affects us, but I suppose we should aim at only using gtk3 apps? On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Thanks for the tests. You can also use about:memory of Chromium, to have a second source of information. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Thank you for your test. I, however, have some doubt about the chromium test. Since midori, epiphany, and chromium all uses webkit, what makes so many differences? The most memory-demanding parts should be webkit and the graphics. I don't believe that the remaining parts can cause so much impact. A minimalist webkit browser with few features, midori, uses three times of memory required by chromium, a complicated and feature-rich webkit browser. Is that possible? I don't think so, and chromium even loads gtk2 as well. So the result is really questions. Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test? On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0. Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail: Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm missing? (i've only looked at the processes called chromium-browser) The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less dependencies). I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine... @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks? I'm saying it so we can compare our results :) -- JpXsat __**_ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~**lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.**launchpad.netlubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~**lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/**ListHelphttps://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Le 11/06/2011 05:52 PM, PCMan a écrit : Since midori, epiphany, and chromium all uses webkit, what makes so many differences? As far as I know, Chromium uses a patched webkit, that's probably why the tests could be different between midori, epiphany and chromium. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Proposal for browser benchmarks: - First of all, run the browsers without any add-on - Take starts time - Watch lxtask for memory usage cpu. Inside Chromium about:memory shows the memory used by each browser running too. Htop? - Watch the general behaviour - Sites: youtube, gmail, google, facebook, ubuntu forums (each alone, by groups of two, three, four and finally five - I don't think that old machines could support easily more than 5 tabs opened!) Let me know if this is enough, what else should be added or if i'm just talking nonsenses here :P -- jpxsat ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:29:10 -0300 Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: Proposal for browser benchmarks: - First of all, run the browsers without any add-on - Take starts time - Watch lxtask for memory usage cpu. Inside Chromium about:memory shows the memory used by each browser running too. Htop? - Watch the general behaviour - Sites: youtube, gmail, google, facebook, ubuntu forums (each alone, by groups of two, three, four and finally five - I don't think that old machines could support easily more than 5 tabs opened!) Let me know if this is enough, what else should be added or if i'm just talking nonsenses here :P Amount of physical RAM -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
*Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test?* To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot, open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using. Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox. This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the final version of 11.10. Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Just a question. Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll go for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures from there? I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are up-to-date then start some tests. We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc? Thanks! On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.comwrote: *Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test?* To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot, open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using. Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox. This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the final version of 11.10. Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I was suggesting some kind of script, which could write the results in a log file. That way all the results will be the same on all machines and are objective. I will need some help in creating that script probably, but I'll be on IRC tomorrow and see what I can get bunged together. With metta, Chris On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 19:44, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Just a question. Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll go for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures from there? I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are up-to-date then start some tests. We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc? Thanks! On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.comwrote: *Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test? * To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot, open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using. Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox. This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the final version of 11.10. Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Make sure you are doing your tests with a clean browser profile. An easy, safe way to do that is to create a new user and login to the new account. Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 20:51:02 -0400 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi, I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another browser. But, this is my opinion : - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...). - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it). - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine. So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Another thing to consider, is this vacancy at Canonical for a WebKit/Chromium Software Engineer. https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICALcws=1rid=376 -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Chromium-browser automatically checks for the latest version AFAIK. And the script should be able to retrieve the latest version from the respective vendor sites. If the installed version (also callable from the system) doesn't match the latest version, then the test will fail. With metta, Chris On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 20:41, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:02:45 -0500 Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Make sure you are doing your tests with a clean browser profile. An easy, safe way to do that is to create a new user and login to the new account. Also need to ensure everybody is using the same, and latest, versions of the browsers. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
If you can create such a script, it helps a lot in other areas, too. We can use it to do benchmark for other components of lubuntu as well. On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote: I was suggesting some kind of script, which could write the results in a log file. That way all the results will be the same on all machines and are objective. I will need some help in creating that script probably, but I'll be on IRC tomorrow and see what I can get bunged together. With metta, Chris On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 19:44, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Just a question. Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll go for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures from there? I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are up-to-date then start some tests. We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc? Thanks! On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.comwrote: *Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test?* To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot, open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using. Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox. This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the final version of 11.10. Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 6 November 2011 14:45, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote: Chromium-browser automatically checks for the latest version AFAIK. And the script should be able to retrieve the latest version from the respective vendor sites. If the installed version (also callable from the system) doesn't match the latest version, then the test will fail. With metta, Chris No, the Ubuntu Firefox and Chromium packages don't use the built-in update checker. Jeremy ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I like the idea of a script.. at least for most of it. The one bugaboo will be doing start up and shut down tests. Maybe we could use an appropriate signal? I'm not sure which one would be used to cleanly shutdown the program, but, for example, with SIGTERM we could do: kill -n 15 $(pidof firefox) kill -n 15 $(pidof chromium-browse) We need to know what systems these are being run on. Therefore: uname -srov lsb_release -a cat /proc/cpuinfo cat /proc/meminfo We need to use new/fresh profiles. So: firefox -CreateProfile foo firefox -P foo space separated list of URLs to be opened in tabs chromium-browser --user-data-dir=foo space separated list of URLs to be opened in tabs One problem with this is that Chromium defaults to loading a choice of search engines.. so it's not technically started up. It IS important we use as many tabs as reasonable. There tends to be a bit of diversion in performance between browsers depending on the number of tabs opened. As for getting resource usage, I'm thinking that a good solution would be to use proc. Rather than try to follow a moving target (e.g. lxtask), something more static might be useful: cat /proc/$(pidof firefox) cat /proc/$(pidof chromium-browse) wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the underpowered netbook user. In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better. Just my two cents. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote: On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Hi, I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on my 256MB RAM laptop. Regards, TRẦN Duy Hùng http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/ On 5 November 2011 22:11, James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com wrote: I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the underpowered netbook user. In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better. Just my two cents. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote: On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
If it's a vote... i would keep chromium. I always keep both browsers just in case, but my benchmarks on my old pentium 3 can't tell any real difference with just one tab opened. Start time, firefox seems a little bit slower to start. I'll run some benchmarks in the next days in the following machine: 1000mhz, 512ram (Pentium3). Still, you should take a look at the dependencies too... my guess is that we should keep chromium in this case (i believe that firefox installs some nautilus stuff) Ps: when it will be ready we could try Midori (it's the faster browser i can try on my old machine!). But really... when it will be *ready* to use!! El 05-11-2011 11:11, James Gifford escribió: I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the underpowered netbook user. In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better. Just my two cents. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote: On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovicandjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
In fact, if we were really looking for a lightweight browser, might I suggest Midori?[1] It's a Webkit based browser, very lightweight on CPU/RAM. Cheers, James Gifford [1] https://launchpad.net/midori On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on my 256MB RAM laptop. Regards, TRẦN Duy Hùng http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/ On 5 November 2011 22:11, James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com wrote: I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the underpowered netbook user. In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better. Just my two cents. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote: On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Define ready to use - Midori might not have hit 1.0, but in the days where I come back from a walk around the block and Chromium's bumped another version number, that's hardly a way to measure things. If it came to a vote, I'd keep Chromium, it's stable, it works, and it's got a large upstream which means we don't have to worry a *lot* about security bugs. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote: If it's a vote... i would keep chromium. I always keep both browsers just in case, but my benchmarks on my old pentium 3 can't tell any real difference with just one tab opened. Start time, firefox seems a little bit slower to start. I'll run some benchmarks in the next days in the following machine: 1000mhz, 512ram (Pentium3). Still, you should take a look at the dependencies too... my guess is that we should keep chromium in this case (i believe that firefox installs some nautilus stuff) Ps: when it will be ready we could try Midori (it's the faster browser i can try on my old machine!). But really... when it will be *ready* to use!! El 05-11-2011 11:11, James Gifford escribió: I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the underpowered netbook user. In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better. Just my two cents. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote: On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovicandjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
In fact Midori is lighweight... but it crash just too often. That's what i mean by ready to use 2011/11/5 James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com In fact, if we were really looking for a lightweight browser, might I suggest Midori?[1] It's a Webkit based browser, very lightweight on CPU/RAM. Cheers, James Gifford [1] https://launchpad.net/midori On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on my 256MB RAM laptop. Regards, TRẦN Duy Hùng http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/ On 5 November 2011 22:11, James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com wrote: I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the underpowered netbook user. In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better. Just my two cents. Cheers, James Gifford On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote: On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-) -- Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- jpxsat Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset Club de Campo y Hostal Los Pequenes http://www.lospequenes.cl Departamento de Informática y Publicidad Celular: +56 9 8-548.38.00 // Fono: +56 72 66.81.42 Je@n-Pie®®e Vidal Piesset http://www.facebook.com/jpxsat Fono: +56 72 66.81.42 // Celular 09 8-548.38.00 jpxsat http://lahistoriadeuncompaq1700.blogspot.com/ // Linux user #522.597 // Ubuntu user #29.157 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Midori isn't a REAL optin right now, because of handling certificates and such things. A better option should be Arora. But Alexander is right. Firefox 7 has improved a lot with beta 7, and 8 is more promising. But I don't give any point until benchmark is provided. -- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 22:18:12 +0700 Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on my 256MB RAM laptop. I've also found Chromium to be better than Firefox when there is less than 512 MiB of RAM. I haven't really checked memory/CPU usage but Chromium is more responsive with 6-8 tabs open. With less than 256 MiB of RAM Firefox really seems to struggle with only 3-4 tabs open. This isn't just a case of a PIII CPU struggling either. I have a 'brand new', never out of it's box, 2003 vintage, Dell 4600 2.4Mhz P4 with 256 MiB of RAM, AGP8 video and Firefox is slow in this as well. As much as I like Firefox I think Chromium is the way to go for Lubuntu. -- Yorvyk ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Keep Chromium. Users, as always, can install Firefox whenever they want. Firefox is my no.1 browser but I must have them both. I run both of them at the same time (FF and Chromium). Let's keep in mind that Chromium is lighter than Firefox. After all, Lubuntu is a lightweight distribution so please keep it as it's :) On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:47 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Ali, It's been mentioned that the new FF7 is lightweight again, that's why it's been brought up. Personally I don't like FF, so personally I'd vote Chromium. But if with benchmarks/user tests it's proven that FF is the better one, than we should consider switching. With metta, Chris On Nov 5, 2011 9:41 PM, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Keep Chromium. Users, as always, can install Firefox whenever they want. Firefox is my no.1 browser but I must have them both. I run both of them at the same time (FF and Chromium). Let's keep in mind that Chromium is lighter than Firefox. After all, Lubuntu is a lightweight distribution so please keep it as it's :) On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:47 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
I love them both so whatever you guys decide, I don't mind. All what I care about is overall performance. I've noticed FF started to be lighter than before. I also noticed it takes so much from RAM with 3-4 opened tabs. Don't have time to test that for now. Again, whatever your choice will be, I'm ok because after all, I do need them both installed :) On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote: Ali, It's been mentioned that the new FF7 is lightweight again, that's why it's been brought up. Personally I don't like FF, so personally I'd vote Chromium. But if with benchmarks/user tests it's proven that FF is the better one, than we should consider switching. With metta, Chris On Nov 5, 2011 9:41 PM, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote: Keep Chromium. Users, as always, can install Firefox whenever they want. Firefox is my no.1 browser but I must have them both. I run both of them at the same time (FF and Chromium). Let's keep in mind that Chromium is lighter than Firefox. After all, Lubuntu is a lightweight distribution so please keep it as it's :) On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:47 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Best Regards, *A.J amjjawad* Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple and Short** ~ * ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Lubuntu 12.04 will be GTK3, and Chromium will still be GTK2. So, to the next version, Chromium will be heavyweight. I think most of the people agree that Midori isn't really an option, and I never tested Arora to give my opinion about this one. . In a way or another, I believe that the best option for now if Firefox. Gabriel Salles ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Well, it's ont sure that Ubuntu istelf will remove all GTK2 packages and libraries completely. Shuttleworth was clear on it at UDS, because we're not going to be "cool and modern" but removing things that are really useful just because they're GTK2. I'm the first who want Mono and GTK2 away from Ubuntu (and GTK2 away too from Lubuntu), but who knows... -- ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Arora is QT based... so i don't think lubuntu will ever adopt it :( ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
Hi, I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another browser. But, this is my opinion : - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...). - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it). - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine. So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion. Regards, Julien Lavergne On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote: I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox in 12.04. I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth looking into. Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement. I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do some benchmarks in the near future. However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when having several tabs open (more than 3). Other reasons to switch: GTK3 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to include as default) What do you guys think? -- Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?
On 11/5/11 5:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. agreed. i wouldn't suggest anything else tho there are other, more lightweight, options. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...). if we really wanted to go lightweight, we'd do w3m or dillo or something. lubuntu is light, but not THAT light :) - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it). i have had better luck with chromium when resources are a limited. i've seen what appear to be memory leaks in firefox that they always claim is due to some plugin though other browsers don't have this same problem. chromium of course sandboxes each process/plugin, so this is usually not a session-wide issue if you will. despite that, i'm a firefox user. for one, i've got a ppc machine (though i'm installing on a thinkpad now) which means that anything but chromium is the only option. secondly, there are some plugins i would really miss. i've tried a couple times to move away (especially after experiencing webkit which seems to work a heck of a lot better overall), but i keep coming back. despite all this, the user has the option of changing whatever they want at any time. so then comes the question of the target audience.. - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine. to which i must say, exactly. but yeah, we should benchmark it. wxl/walter ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
