Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
I think this is one of those time when we are all going to agree to disagree... Julien, if we go with Midori, can we put a script or shortcut on the desktop that will install FF? Personally I think this would fit the bill, have a lite browser, but give users who don't know very much a simple way to install FF. I am thinking about the illiterate here, bot people like us who know what we are doing. I'm fine with Midori since it seems to do everything FF does, but I suspect if we have some way to track it, I think you would see a lot of FF installs after the fact. Glen On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:40:49 -, Joe xubu...@ewankeir.co.uk wrote: Hi Steve, I found changing preferences to identify as Safari was best for online banking. I think that's because Safari uses webkit too. Joe I know that trick, I have the User Agent Switcher plugin on FF for problems like that. I’m just thinking of users who don’t know or understand about this. On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 22:32 +, Steve wrote: On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:09:37 -, supp...@buntfu.com wrote: Been using midori all day long at every site i can think of with no hiccups... going with firefox is a mistake. if you want a lightweight distro you have to make the number one program used light weight as well... otherwise its a like system but you spend most of your time in a pokey program I have found a couple of problems sites with Midori but they appear to be known and can be overcome. Sites that claim the browser is unsupported tend to work OK, a few sites told me FF 3.0, 3.5 3.6 was unsupported. Online banking sites are another matter, obviously I can only test mine, which refuses to cooperate with Midori, Opera and FF 3.5 3.6. I am not sure if this will be a major problem, would the target group for this distro use online banking. The thing is, just how critical are these two. http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=399 http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=168 It looks like they are not going to get sorted any time soon. -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
I know we will not be all agree after this discussion. But I 'm collecting arguments for all browsers to make a decision after the discussion. Regards, Julien Lavergne Le 2 févr. 2010 à 14:14, Glen Bizeau gbiz...@gmail.com a écrit : I think this is one of those time when we are all going to agree to disagree... Julien, if we go with Midori, can we put a script or shortcut on the desktop that will install FF? Personally I think this would fit the bill, have a lite browser, but give users who don't know very much a simple way to install FF. I am thinking about the illiterate here, bot people like us who know what we are doing. I'm fine with Midori since it seems to do everything FF does, but I suspect if we have some way to track it, I think you would see a lot of FF installs after the fact. Glen On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 6:58 PM, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:40:49 -, Joe xubu...@ewankeir.co.uk wrote: Hi Steve, I found changing preferences to identify as Safari was best for online banking. I think that's because Safari uses webkit too. Joe I know that trick, I have the User Agent Switcher plugin on FF for problems like that. I’m just thinking of users who don’t know or understand about this. On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 22:32 +, Steve wrote: On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:09:37 -, supp...@buntfu.com wrote: Been using midori all day long at every site i can think of with no hiccups... going with firefox is a mistake. if you want a lightweight distro you have to make the number one program used light weight as well... otherwise its a like system but you spend most of your time in a pokey program I have found a couple of problems sites with Midori but they appear to be known and can be overcome. Sites that claim the browser is unsupported tend to work OK, a few sites told me FF 3.0, 3.5 3.6 was unsupported. Online banking sites are another matter, obviously I can only test mine, which refuses to cooperate with Midori, Opera and FF 3.5 3.6. I am not sure if this will be a major problem, would the target group for this distro use online banking. The thing is, just how critical are these two. http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=399 http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=168 It looks like they are not going to get sorted any time soon. -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
midori i believe gives you the fullest web experience and still remains light... it does support flash and plugins My experience with other browsers in the past have always been that they are lacking and playing catchup with FF and IE. Plugins, Flash support and interface design to name a few. Do all these lite browsers support the same functionally as FF does? Glen On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:23 PM, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 16:14:23 -, Glen Bizeau gbiz...@gmail.com wrote: Firefox is a browser that people expect to see on a Linux distribution. I know the footprint is a little larger on it, but I think we should stick with the more comfortable/familiar choice in this situation. Which people expect FF? Put on FF, if someone wants to change it later, let them do it. Thats what I would have said at one time (last week :) ) But FF is seriously ponderous with 128MB of RAM and Im rapidly coming to the conclusion that Midori is the way to go. Out of interest I tried Midori out on 'my class' this afternoon and they were quite happy with it. These people are computer illiterates who are rather frightened of the things, though getting less so. -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
It's not an option, because providing a large scale of applications will result in no support for all. The point to choosing default applications is to provide good support and integration of those applications, and offer something ready out-of-the-box for the user. Advanced users can always install/remove applications. Regards, Julien Lavergne Le lundi 01 février 2010 à 10:19 -0500, Jeff Stone a écrit : Unfortunately, whichever browser you chose, a bunch of potential users are going to be turned off. An alternative to consider is initially install no browser, then have a post-install script that will ask the user to decide, something like this: Browser: 1. Firefox (default) 2. Midori 3. Epiphany 4. Arora 5. Chromium 6. none etc. Office: 1. Abiword + Gnumeric (default) 2. Openoffice.org 3. none Image editor: Music player: Launcher: 1. Kupfer IM Client: etc The script might not have to do anything more than a few sudo apt-get installs. I don't know if this breaks some Ubuntu philosopy, but I think it opens the distro up to a *much* wider audience. I'm sure you can't make dramatic changes to Ubiquity, and I know you don't want the user to have to make a lot of decisions at install time, but I'd *FAR* rather pick between a), b) and c), and know that the config is setup properly than to have to figure out how to delete one package and install another. You could even start with with the question Do you want to select packages other than the defaults (Firefox, Abiword, Gnumeric etc)? Jeff On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 7:54 AM, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote: On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:40:35 -, David Robert Lewis (ethnopunk) ethnop...@telkomsa.net wrote: ` Steve wrote: On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:27:58 -, 神癒礁湖 rafaellag...@gmail.com wrote: LOL. Discussion about browser is out of the box! :-) OK, fully agree with Julián Alarcón and Jonay Santana. I'm only a designer (and was a coder, but not now). Mother's impressions are good as they are perfect beta testers. Midori and Arora are the best browser for this release / distro. Arora was even capable to load complex certificates accesing the tricky goverment pages (educational ministry, for example) and not Midori. So, equation gets simple. We have to keep an eye on speed, easyness and also features, and Midori lack a bit of functions that are already implemented on Arora. If anybody wants a geek distro try compiling a minial Gentoo with that rare fork of KDE. Lubuntu must be installable on any machine with ANY user. Not tried Arora, another one to look at. As the browser is probably the most important piece of software, from a users perspective, this has to be got right. The problem for me is, I like my 'bells whistles on my browser and find it hard to use some of the simpler ones. I’m quite the opposite with media players, I dislike all this play list silliness and other complications. Chromium is great. However, I still think the distro should be called Lewbuntu. :) I thought LoUbuntu :) -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list:
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
My personal vote is for Firefox and I will tell you why: The perfect default browser is one such that everyone will be capable of using it without requiring to replace it. This, in a perfect world, would be a simple decision, but we must consider at least two attributes of each browser: speed and compatibility. I am sure no one would disagree that Midori or even Chromium represent very fast browsers and even lightweight ones in the case of Midori. Unfortunately, the web has not adapted to these new browsers as plugins still will crash in these browsers (Looks at Flash) and some websites will render incorrectly. These two problems often necessitates the need to have a backup browser that more websites are compatible with. On Linux, that backup browser has to be Firefox. The fatal flaw with Midori and Chromium is that they necessitate the use of a different browser and I think any reasonable inclusion of one of these would necessitate the inclusion of Firefox for websites that one of these does not render correctly. I think that just including one of these would be a big mistake because no one wants a default browser which does not browse. That would be a major complaint. On the other side of the equation, if you include Firefox, anyone who does not bother to change their browser gets to use the most compatible browser for the web right now. If someone wants to use one of the lighter alternatives for most of their browsing, they can easily install it and they will be able to have Firefox to browse websites that do not work. TL;DR: - If you include Firefox as default, people who just want a browser that works gets that. - If you include Firefox as default, people who want a faster browser for most of their browsing can easily install that and still have Firefox ready to go when their favorite browser struggles on that incompatible web page. - If you include Midori or Chromium, people who just want a browser will likely find pages that do not work correctly. - If you include Midori or Chromium, people who like their faster browsers are happy, but when they encounter a web page that is not compatable they will either have to forget that web page or install Firefox. *Conclusion: *Include Firefox because it will avoid the worst possible outcome without inconveniencing people who want to use a lighter browser for most of their experience too much. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Le lundi 01 février 2010 à 10:30 -0500, Dwain Sims a écrit : Browsers (especially) are almost like religion. Religion for advanced users, others just want something to display Internet pages. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Shabab Mustafa shabab.must...@gmail.com wrote: @Shae Smittle, Buddy, we know the charismatic characteristics of FF very well. But you have mentioned only the PROs and how about the CONs. Don't you have any idea about how much resource FF need to run. Can you give any better reasons for what a user with enough hardware resources to run FF smoothly would choose Lubuntu instead of Ubuntu or Xubuntu? --- Shabab Mustafa ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp Midori big fault: http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=168 Don't alert about self signed certificates (https - SSL) So... Lubuntu will be insecure?? Mmmm, I'm starting to think on Firefox. (Chromium is very new, will be risky, maybe in Lubuntu 10.10 but the memory use is high, so, I don't like Chromium/Chrome even for my Ubuntu 10.04 with Athlon AMD + 2 GB of RAM is very high) ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Been using midori all day long at every site i can think of with no hiccups... going with firefox is a mistake. if you want a lightweight distro you have to make the number one program used light weight as well... otherwise its a like system but you spend most of your time in a pokey program My personal vote is for Firefox and I will tell you why: The perfect default browser is one such that everyone will be capable of using it without requiring to replace it. This, in a perfect world, would be a simple decision, but we must consider at least two attributes of each browser: speed and compatibility. I am sure no one would disagree that Midori or even Chromium represent very fast browsers and even lightweight ones in the case of Midori. Unfortunately, the web has not adapted to these new browsers as plugins still will crash in these browsers (Looks at Flash) and some websites will render incorrectly. These two problems often necessitates the need to have a backup browser that more websites are compatible with. On Linux, that backup browser has to be Firefox. The fatal flaw with Midori and Chromium is that they necessitate the use of a different browser and I think any reasonable inclusion of one of these would necessitate the inclusion of Firefox for websites that one of these does not render correctly. I think that just including one of these would be a big mistake because no one wants a default browser which does not browse. That would be a major complaint. On the other side of the equation, if you include Firefox, anyone who does not bother to change their browser gets to use the most compatible browser for the web right now. If someone wants to use one of the lighter alternatives for most of their browsing, they can easily install it and they will be able to have Firefox to browse websites that do not work. TL;DR: - If you include Firefox as default, people who just want a browser that works gets that. - If you include Firefox as default, people who want a faster browser for most of their browsing can easily install that and still have Firefox ready to go when their favorite browser struggles on that incompatible web page. - If you include Midori or Chromium, people who just want a browser will likely find pages that do not work correctly. - If you include Midori or Chromium, people who like their faster browsers are happy, but when they encounter a web page that is not compatable they will either have to forget that web page or install Firefox. *Conclusion: *Include Firefox because it will avoid the worst possible outcome without inconveniencing people who want to use a lighter browser for most of their experience too much. On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 1:55 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Le lundi 01 février 2010 à 10:30 -0500, Dwain Sims a écrit : Browsers (especially) are almost like religion. Religion for advanced users, others just want something to display Internet pages. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Been using midori all day long at every site i can think of with no hiccups... going with firefox is a mistake. if you want a lightweight distro you have to make the number one program used light weight as well... otherwise its a like system but you spend most of your time in a pokey program ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
I just checked out arora and midori (midori from ppa). I'm thinking midori is the best *default* option. If people want firefox, they can easily apt-get it anyay, but if we need to pick a default, and want to keep with the lightweight principles, I think midori is the way to go... Does kubuntu default to konqueror? I remember most KDE distros used to default to konqueror and firefox had to be installed separate. It's not a whole lot different than that. Doug On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 5:09 PM, supp...@buntfu.com wrote: Been using midori all day long at every site i can think of with no hiccups... going with firefox is a mistake. if you want a lightweight distro you have to make the number one program used light weight as well... otherwise its a like system but you spend most of your time in a pokey program ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Please avoid sending me Word or PowerPoint attachments. See http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:09:37 -, supp...@buntfu.com wrote: Been using midori all day long at every site i can think of with no hiccups... going with firefox is a mistake. if you want a lightweight distro you have to make the number one program used light weight as well... otherwise its a like system but you spend most of your time in a pokey program I have found a couple of problems sites with Midori but they appear to be known and can be overcome. Sites that claim the browser is unsupported tend to work OK, a few sites told me FF 3.0, 3.5 3.6 was unsupported. Online banking sites are another matter, obviously I can only test mine, which refuses to cooperate with Midori, Opera and FF 3.5 3.6. I am not sure if this will be a major problem, would the target group for this distro use online banking. The thing is, just how critical are these two. http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=399 http://www.twotoasts.de/bugs/index.php?do=detailstask_id=168 It looks like they are not going to get sorted any time soon. -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
On Mon, 01 Feb 2010 22:16:50 -, Douglas Stanley d...@douglasstanley.com wrote: I just checked out arora and midori (midori from ppa). I'm thinking midori is the best *default* option. If people want firefox, they can easily apt-get it anyay, but if we need to pick a default, and want to keep with the lightweight principles, I think midori is the way to go... Why do you prefer Midori to Arora? I’ve tried both and Arora just didn’t feel quite right, don’t know why though. Does kubuntu default to konqueror? I remember most KDE distros used to default to konqueror and firefox had to be installed separate. It's not a whole lot different than that. Doug It does, no FF on Kubuntu. You want it you install it. -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:18:06 -, Julián Alarcón alarc...@gmail.com wrote: Some notes: Lubuntu is Ubuntu and free software, so, is not JUST for linux geeks, is for all human beings. Lubuntu will be a light OS, so, no big resources. The main goal of Lubuntu is to bring Ubuntu to old PCs (here on Colombia many people (rural zones) use Pentium II + 256 of RAM + 10 GB DD + 1024x768 max. resolution), and, if we can give a complete experience to old computers, we'll score!! * Browse trough a Terminal? Lynx is completely out. * Chrome is NOT free software [1] * Chromium really is free software, but, Chromium is NOT a final browser,just a development branch, so.. Support for Chromium is unknown, but, Chromium is now on Lucid, so, maybe this won't be a problem. * Firefox is great, and Firefox 3.6 rulez! But, is not fast. * Midori is great, but have some render and identification problems, and less features. * Opera is NOT free software, one less... So, we have: Firefox, Chromium, and Midori. * The big faults of Chomium are, no official support (so Midori) from Canonical and from Google (Chromium is just a name project for Google) AND a big amount of memory use (I'm testing Chromium and with 7 tabs I got 815 MB used!!! (No flash guys)). Don't think so much on HTML5 (video), my PC waste more CPU watching OGG (on Firefox) and h264 (on Chromium) than Flash on both (this is sad but true, there are not good video libraries yet) * Midori is a great tool, not official support from Canonical, but, Midori developers are supporting Midori, and this is good. And, Midori has been on Ubuntu repos since Hardy, so, we got some experience.. * Firefox is great, but, it's not so fast, and we need something fast (remember, old PC's). Firefox have extensions, browser market, support from many sites, official support from Canonical and Mozilla,low memory use. So, my favorites: * Midori + Extension to bring false identification of Firefox or Safari (I like more Firefox ID) to surpass identification problems * Firefox, keep it simple. Firefox is now a great web browser, and has many many people behind. Having now used Lubuntu on a PII with 128MB RAM, I have to say I tend to agree with the above. Once you open 2 or 3 pages with either Chromium or FF the machine can be come quite unresponsive as the poor drive gets thrashed with things swapping in an out. Going to try Midori again latter. Note: Don't think on LTS status, I guest that Lubuntu won't be an LTS release (just like Kubuntu 8.04). I think that was me that throw that one in. I just remember the confusion with the two KDE 8.04 releases [1] http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Hi, I tested Chromium on a eeePC 701 (633 MHz Intel Celeron, 512 MB RAM) . It is running very well. Regards, Leszek Lesner On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:01:41 -0500 John Collier sheepo@gmail.com wrote: Since memory may be an issue on certain machines, I'd suggest maybe Dillo, but due to the lack of support for multiple things (i.e scripts) I won't. Has anyone tested Chromium on such a machine yet to see how well it runs? John. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Hello there, In my opinion, I think we should keep in mind about the RAM consumption for the first place for Lubuntu. It really should run smooth in PCs with 128 MB or lower RAM capacity. Because, in 512MB Ubuntu can run. In 192 MB, Xubuntu can run easily. But in 128 MB or 96 MB of RAM no distro of Ubuntu family runs at all. If anyone has better Hardware capacity, they have options to use heavier distros with enriched features. Or may install additional softwares upon Lubuntu as their own requirement. On the other hand, the lower capable PCs has no options at all (with Ubuntu Family distros). Lubuntu should be lighter than Xubuntu. Otherwise, their is no point to pursue for a new member of the Ubuntu Family. +1 for Arora. --- Shabab Mustafa On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 5:31 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Hi, I tested Chromium on a eeePC 701 (633 MHz Intel Celeron, 512 MB RAM) . It is running very well. Regards, Leszek Lesner On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 20:01:41 -0500 John Collier sheepo@gmail.com wrote: Since memory may be an issue on certain machines, I'd suggest maybe Dillo, but due to the lack of support for multiple things (i.e scripts) I won't. Has anyone tested Chromium on such a machine yet to see how well it runs? John. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
What about Kazehakase which is a stripped down Firefox. Firefox is a crappy browser once you try other stuff. The only thing I have seen people sa yits great about is plugins which other browsers are now ok with. You failed to mention Arora which is webkit based and fully supports scipts and ajax. I strongly advise you try it. -Andy On Sun, Jan 31, 2010 at 10:35 AM, Steve yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.comwrote: On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 04:18:06 -, Julián Alarcón alarc...@gmail.com wrote: Some notes: Lubuntu is Ubuntu and free software, so, is not JUST for linux geeks, is for all human beings. Lubuntu will be a light OS, so, no big resources. The main goal of Lubuntu is to bring Ubuntu to old PCs (here on Colombia many people (rural zones) use Pentium II + 256 of RAM + 10 GB DD + 1024x768 max. resolution), and, if we can give a complete experience to old computers, we'll score!! * Browse trough a Terminal? Lynx is completely out. * Chrome is NOT free software [1] * Chromium really is free software, but, Chromium is NOT a final browser,just a development branch, so.. Support for Chromium is unknown, but, Chromium is now on Lucid, so, maybe this won't be a problem. * Firefox is great, and Firefox 3.6 rulez! But, is not fast. * Midori is great, but have some render and identification problems, and less features. * Opera is NOT free software, one less... So, we have: Firefox, Chromium, and Midori. * The big faults of Chomium are, no official support (so Midori) from Canonical and from Google (Chromium is just a name project for Google) AND a big amount of memory use (I'm testing Chromium and with 7 tabs I got 815 MB used!!! (No flash guys)). Don't think so much on HTML5 (video), my PC waste more CPU watching OGG (on Firefox) and h264 (on Chromium) than Flash on both (this is sad but true, there are not good video libraries yet) * Midori is a great tool, not official support from Canonical, but, Midori developers are supporting Midori, and this is good. And, Midori has been on Ubuntu repos since Hardy, so, we got some experience.. * Firefox is great, but, it's not so fast, and we need something fast (remember, old PC's). Firefox have extensions, browser market, support from many sites, official support from Canonical and Mozilla,low memory use. So, my favorites: * Midori + Extension to bring false identification of Firefox or Safari (I like more Firefox ID) to surpass identification problems * Firefox, keep it simple. Firefox is now a great web browser, and has many many people behind. Having now used Lubuntu on a PII with 128MB RAM, I have to say I tend to agree with the above. Once you open 2 or 3 pages with either Chromium or FF the machine can be come quite unresponsive as the poor drive gets thrashed with things swapping in an out. Going to try Midori again latter. Note: Don't think on LTS status, I guest that Lubuntu won't be an LTS release (just like Kubuntu 8.04). I think that was me that throw that one in. I just remember the confusion with the two KDE 8.04 releases [1] http://www.google.com/chrome/eula.html ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 12:40:35 -, David Robert Lewis (ethnopunk) ethnop...@telkomsa.net wrote: ` Steve wrote: On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 10:27:58 -, 神癒礁湖 rafaellag...@gmail.com wrote: LOL. Discussion about browser is out of the box! :-) OK, fully agree with Julián Alarcón and Jonay Santana. I'm only a designer (and was a coder, but not now). Mother's impressions are good as they are perfect beta testers. Midori and Arora are the best browser for this release / distro. Arora was even capable to load complex certificates accesing the tricky goverment pages (educational ministry, for example) and not Midori. So, equation gets simple. We have to keep an eye on speed, easyness and also features, and Midori lack a bit of functions that are already implemented on Arora. If anybody wants a geek distro try compiling a minial Gentoo with that rare fork of KDE. Lubuntu must be installable on any machine with ANY user. Not tried Arora, another one to look at. As the browser is probably the most important piece of software, from a users perspective, this has to be got right. The problem for me is, I like my 'bells whistles on my browser and find it hard to use some of the simpler ones. I’m quite the opposite with media players, I dislike all this play list silliness and other complications. Chromium is great. However, I still think the distro should be called Lewbuntu. :) I thought LoUbuntu :) -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Hi, the discussion is coming up from time to time. This is a good overview. My additions to Julien inline == Keep Firefox == + Firefox is well-known + Well maintained upstream and on Ubuntu + Many features + supported in many languages - Slow on startup - Memory usage ? Rendering seems slower == Switch to Midori == + Small and fast + Memory usage - Upstream active but with limited developers compared to the 2 others. - Features limited - problems with rendering some web pages == Switch to Chromium == + Similar to Chrome, which begin to be well-known + Good interface for small screen + Upstream active, supported by Google +- Firefox have still more possibility and features than Chromium ? Maybe be maintained by Mobile Team ? Private data send ? Privacy is a real issue. There is an alternative see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRWare_Iron David Sugar mentioned one time, that the Chromium maintainers might look into it. Now, that Canonical is changing to Yahoo as its standard search engine is the team also looking into this aspect? Google would still get information about what people search with Yahoo or Bing even when Google is not the standard search engine. - Mario ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Hi, Firefox has its good points. But packed with lots of plugins it also sucks at memory usage. So Chromium +1 , because: + FAST (I mean really fast, the time I start firefox the same time, I open almost 10 Tabs within chromium) + Stable (Thirdparty plugins, like JAVA and Flash don't bring the browser down if(when) crashing) + Lots of extensions (not comparable to firefox but far better than midori or arora) + You don't need to make google the default search engine, to call this browser chromium (see firefox: can only be called firefox, if search engine is google and we don't touch the default profile, thats insane) + html5 youtube+veoh (x264) is working quite well with codecs installed - Chromium misses SSL encryption in the linux version still, so https sites without certificate - html5 ogg theora playback seems to be broken since quite a few builds So we need to make a choice: Firefox (slow but low memory usage) OR Chromium (blazing fast and a little more memory usage) ? I am definitely for Chromium Regards, Leszek Lesner On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 01:23:47 +0100 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi, Many people complained about the choice of Firefox on Lubuntu. It's time to discuss it, to see if it's useful to change for another one. I can see 3 possibles choices : == Keep Firefox == + Firefox is well-known + Well maintained upstream and on Ubuntu + Many features - Slow on startup - Memory usage ? Rendering seems slower == Switch to Midori == + Small and fast + Memory usage - Upstream active but with limited developers compared to the 2 others. - Features limited == Switch to Chromium == + Similar to Chrome, which begin to be well-known + Good interface for small screen + Upstream active, supported by Google +- Firefox have still more possibility and features than Chromium ? Maybe be maintained by Mobile Team ? Private data send ? This is a quick benchmark I made, to have a quick view of performance for those 3 browsers. Startup : time to startup Memory 1 : Memory with google.com, wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu and gmail.com connected. Memory 2 : Same that 1 + 5 ubuntu.com pages Memory 3 : Closing all the pages except google.com . . Firefox .Midori . Chromium Startup 3.4s1.8s1.5s Memory using Xfce task manager . . Firefox . Midori .Chromium Memory 1 70Mo33Mo28Mo Memory 2 83Mo78Mo33Mo Memory 3 58Mo45Mo32Mo Memory using about:memory of Chromium . . Firefox . Midori .Chromium Memory 1 70Mo21Mo18Mo Memory 2 91Mo72Mo18Mo Memory 3 50Mo38Mo18Mo == Others choice == * Opera: Closed source. * Aurora: I can't see any advantage over Midori, with QT depends. * Epiphany: Too much GNOME depends. For now, I'm more for the Chromium option. Midori is nice, but I don't think we will have enough time to test and maintain it correctly. I'm interesting to have user experience with those browser on low ressources computers. If you are running Lucid, you can install them from official repository, and play with them :) Regards, Juline Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
i've been using Opera, Firefox and Chrome in lxde and xfce environments last two months, and Opera works better than Firefox and Chrome. You should consider Opera option beyond the open sources issues. Regards. En Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:53:23 +0100, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de escribió: Hi, Firefox has its good points. But packed with lots of plugins it also sucks at memory usage. So Chromium +1 , because: + FAST (I mean really fast, the time I start firefox the same time, I open almost 10 Tabs within chromium) + Stable (Thirdparty plugins, like JAVA and Flash don't bring the browser down if(when) crashing) + Lots of extensions (not comparable to firefox but far better than midori or arora) + You don't need to make google the default search engine, to call this browser chromium (see firefox: can only be called firefox, if search engine is google and we don't touch the default profile, thats insane) + html5 youtube+veoh (x264) is working quite well with codecs installed - Chromium misses SSL encryption in the linux version still, so https sites without certificate - html5 ogg theora playback seems to be broken since quite a few builds So we need to make a choice: Firefox (slow but low memory usage) OR Chromium (blazing fast and a little more memory usage) ? I am definitely for Chromium Regards, Leszek Lesner On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 01:23:47 +0100 Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi, Many people complained about the choice of Firefox on Lubuntu. It's time to discuss it, to see if it's useful to change for another one. I can see 3 possibles choices : == Keep Firefox == + Firefox is well-known + Well maintained upstream and on Ubuntu + Many features - Slow on startup - Memory usage ? Rendering seems slower == Switch to Midori == + Small and fast + Memory usage - Upstream active but with limited developers compared to the 2 others. - Features limited == Switch to Chromium == + Similar to Chrome, which begin to be well-known + Good interface for small screen + Upstream active, supported by Google +- Firefox have still more possibility and features than Chromium ? Maybe be maintained by Mobile Team ? Private data send ? This is a quick benchmark I made, to have a quick view of performance for those 3 browsers. Startup : time to startup Memory 1 : Memory with google.com, wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu and gmail.com connected. Memory 2 : Same that 1 + 5 ubuntu.com pages Memory 3 : Closing all the pages except google.com . . Firefox .Midori . Chromium Startup 3.4s1.8s1.5s Memory using Xfce task manager . . Firefox . Midori .Chromium Memory 170Mo33Mo28Mo Memory 283Mo78Mo33Mo Memory 358Mo45Mo32Mo Memory using about:memory of Chromium . . Firefox . Midori .Chromium Memory 170Mo21Mo18Mo Memory 291Mo72Mo18Mo Memory 350Mo38Mo18Mo == Others choice == * Opera: Closed source. * Aurora: I can't see any advantage over Midori, with QT depends. * Epiphany: Too much GNOME depends. For now, I'm more for the Chromium option. Midori is nice, but I don't think we will have enough time to test and maintain it correctly. I'm interesting to have user experience with those browser on low ressources computers. If you are running Lucid, you can install them from official repository, and play with them :) Regards, Juline Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- Using the new mail client Opera: http://www.opera.com/mail/ #503853 ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:53:23 -, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote: Hi, Firefox has its good points. But packed with lots of plugins it also sucks at memory usage. So Chromium +1 , because: + FAST (I mean really fast, the time I start firefox the same time, I open almost 10 Tabs within chromium) + Stable (Thirdparty plugins, like JAVA and Flash don't bring the browser down if(when) crashing) + Lots of extensions (not comparable to firefox but far better than midori or arora) + You don't need to make google the default search engine, to call this browser chromium (see firefox: can only be called firefox, if search engine is google and we don't touch the default profile, thats insane) + html5 youtube+veoh (x264) is working quite well with codecs installed - Chromium misses SSL encryption in the linux version still, so https sites without certificate - html5 ogg theora playback seems to be broken since quite a few builds So we need to make a choice: Firefox (slow but low memory usage) OR Chromium (blazing fast and a little more memory usage) ? I am definitely for Chromium It’s swings and roundabouts isn’t it. Firefox is well known, works with most banks, it’s failings are known, making it easier to assist new users. Chromium is quite well known, not recognised by most banks, it’s failings alter with each build making it hard to support. Midori, Who, what? 'Your browser is not currently supported' is a constant message from many web sites, so new supporting it for new users could be a real headache. As Lucid is LTS release, I know this isn’t the case for Lubuntu but some people might get that impression, I say go with Firefox and monitor the progress of the other two for pssible inclusion in 10.10 As for me, I’m using Opera for WEB, mail and IRC. -- Steve ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Le samedi 30 janvier 2010 à 15:49 +0700, Mario Behling a écrit : Privacy is a real issue. There is an alternative see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SRWare_Iron David Sugar mentioned one time, that the Chromium maintainers might look into it. Now, that Canonical is changing to Yahoo as its standard search engine is the team also looking into this aspect? Google would still get information about what people search with Yahoo or Bing even when Google is not the standard search engine. Yes it's a real problem. I don't think switching to a fork projet will be a good idea. I'm sure we can switch off those privacy options (because some are optional, but enable by default) using different default settings. We can also patch the source if it's necessary, but this will increase the maintenance of the package. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
Le vendredi 29 janvier 2010 à 18:28 -0600, flavio muñoz marquez a écrit : Well, I think that it should be Firefox ... free browser is the best Chromium still not 100%, but neither should we forget Epiphany Which part of the browser is not free ? Chromium is available in universe, that mean all the program is under free licenses. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
2010/1/30 flavio muñoz marquez fam...@hotmail.com: Well, I think that it should be Firefox ... free browser is the best Chromium still not 100%, but neither should we forget Epiphany we choose epiphany-browser for blankon-minimalist, use LXDE for desktop (based on Jaunty) [0] and using two panel like gnome [1] but i still don't know how to customize menu like [Application - Component - System] at gnome. if anyone like to try just download it [2] sorry, Out Of Topic. [0] http://dev.blankonlinux.or.id/browser/nanggar/blankon-minimalist.nanggar/desktop [1] http://dev.blankonlinux.or.id/browser/nanggar/lxde-common [2] http://cdimage.blankonlinux.or.id/blankon-minimalist/rilis/nanggar/ -- takdir ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
There is one problem... Chromium/Chome waste a lot of memory, please, take a look to the use of memory of Chomium when you are opening 4 o more tabs! Firefox 3.6 is faster than 3.5 for startup, and, my memory use is awesome. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Default Browser
New subscriber and potential 10.04 user here: IMHO, yes, first preference is for Firefox, second for Midori (with webkit?) and if one has significantly lower memory usage footprint then go for that! ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
