Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
Hi all, Thanks Phill :) Le Tuesday 24 May 2011 à 00:58 +0100, Phill Whiteside a écrit : > > From a general chat to our head of development on lubuntu, he is of > the opinion that if the code is really (and I mean really) tight, that > it would be possible to include within the very tight constraints that > we are committed to be able to uphold the inclusion of accessibility > and has agreed that we should really strive to attain this. To be complete, we are searching for some sort of document which explain how to make an OS accessible :) During the UDS session [1], someone mention that this document is planned. To begin to work on accessibility on Lubuntu, this type of document will be very very useful :) Regards, Julien Lavergne [1]: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/community-o-accessibility-team ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
On Tue, 24 May 2011 09:14:07 -0700 Jonathan Marsden wrote: > On 05/24/2011 01:17 AM, Yorvyk wrote: > > > A 700 MHz PIII Celeron with 256 MiB of PC100 RAM and a 100 MHz drive > > is quite usable. A 200 MHZ PIII Celeron and 128 MiB of 66MHz RAM > > with a 33 MHz drive is dog slow. If you add a screen reader into > > the mix I think the later set-up would become unusable. > > I'm now confused. > > (A) I am not used to seeing drive (presumably hard disk drive) > performance being measured in Mhz -- what *is* this? > > The common ways to gauge hard drive performance that I know of are: > > * sustained data transfer rate (in MBytes/sec) > * sustained I/O operations per second (IOPS/sec) > > Lower level (and IMO less useful) measures include average seek time, > and rotational latency... those are measured in milliseconds, not MHz. > Conventional hard drives are (generally speaking) never bottlenecked by > their theoretical maximum interface data transfer speed, so this is not > a useful drive performance metric (but *is* sometimes measured in MHz... > so maybe that is what you are using?). > No idea why I wrote MHz for the drive spec and not MB/s. > (B) This message seem to imply that "accessibility" means "screen > reader", but there is no specification saying that which Phill has > pointed us to yet. > > I suggest that blindness or lack of visual acuity are not the only > things requiring accessibility accommodation in an OS. They *might* be > the #1 priority for accessibility improvements to Lubuntu -- but without > a clear specification (blueprint), we do not know this! > > Jonathan > I was just using the screen reader as an example. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) http://lubuntu.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
Hi Jonathon, In that respect, I am also awaiting where the accessibility team is going. With what has occurred with Speech Control I'm also trying to find the direction out myself, hence my request to them! Reagrds, Phill. On Tue, May 24, 2011 at 5:14 PM, Jonathan Marsden wrote: > On 05/24/2011 01:17 AM, Yorvyk wrote: > > > A 700 MHz PIII Celeron with 256 MiB of PC100 RAM and a 100 MHz drive > > is quite usable. A 200 MHZ PIII Celeron and 128 MiB of 66MHz RAM > > with a 33 MHz drive is dog slow. If you add a screen reader into > > the mix I think the later set-up would become unusable. > > I'm now confused. > > (A) I am not used to seeing drive (presumably hard disk drive) > performance being measured in Mhz -- what *is* this? > > The common ways to gauge hard drive performance that I know of are: > > * sustained data transfer rate (in MBytes/sec) > * sustained I/O operations per second (IOPS/sec) > > Lower level (and IMO less useful) measures include average seek time, > and rotational latency... those are measured in milliseconds, not MHz. > Conventional hard drives are (generally speaking) never bottlenecked by > their theoretical maximum interface data transfer speed, so this is not > a useful drive performance metric (but *is* sometimes measured in MHz... > so maybe that is what you are using?). > > (B) This message seem to imply that "accessibility" means "screen > reader", but there is no specification saying that which Phill has > pointed us to yet. > > I suggest that blindness or lack of visual acuity are not the only > things requiring accessibility accommodation in an OS. They *might* be > the #1 priority for accessibility improvements to Lubuntu -- but without > a clear specification (blueprint), we do not know this! > > Jonathan > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
On 05/24/2011 01:17 AM, Yorvyk wrote: > A 700 MHz PIII Celeron with 256 MiB of PC100 RAM and a 100 MHz drive > is quite usable. A 200 MHZ PIII Celeron and 128 MiB of 66MHz RAM > with a 33 MHz drive is dog slow. If you add a screen reader into > the mix I think the later set-up would become unusable. I'm now confused. (A) I am not used to seeing drive (presumably hard disk drive) performance being measured in Mhz -- what *is* this? The common ways to gauge hard drive performance that I know of are: * sustained data transfer rate (in MBytes/sec) * sustained I/O operations per second (IOPS/sec) Lower level (and IMO less useful) measures include average seek time, and rotational latency... those are measured in milliseconds, not MHz. Conventional hard drives are (generally speaking) never bottlenecked by their theoretical maximum interface data transfer speed, so this is not a useful drive performance metric (but *is* sometimes measured in MHz... so maybe that is what you are using?). (B) This message seem to imply that "accessibility" means "screen reader", but there is no specification saying that which Phill has pointed us to yet. I suggest that blindness or lack of visual acuity are not the only things requiring accessibility accommodation in an OS. They *might* be the #1 priority for accessibility improvements to Lubuntu -- but without a clear specification (blueprint), we do not know this! Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
On Tue, 24 May 2011 00:58:58 +0100 Phill Whiteside wrote: > Hiyas, > > I'd really like to see lubuntu 11.10 come > out with as much accessibility as is possible on "A Pentium II or Celeron > system with 128 MiB of RAM is probably a bottom-line configuration that may > yield slow yet usable system with Lubuntu" > The problem with minimum specs is what people are prepared to put up with. A 700 MHz PIII Celeron with 256 MiB of PC100 RAM and a 100 MHz drive is quite usable. A 200 MHZ PIII Celeron and 128 MiB of 66MHz RAM with a 33 MHz drive is dog slow. If you add a screen reader into the mix I think the later set-up would become unusable. I'll try this later and see. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) http://lubuntu.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
On 05/23/2011 04:58 PM, Phill Whiteside wrote: > From a general chat to our head of development on lubuntu, he is of > the opinion that if the code is really (and I mean really) tight, > that it would be possible to include within the very tight > constraints that we are committed to be able to uphold the inclusion > of accessibility and has agreed that we should really strive to > attain this. Whether it is possible depends a lot on what is meant by "the inclusion of accessibility"! Has the relevant champion of this idea (You? Someone in the Ubuntu Accessibility team? Other?) created a blueprint outlining in a fair amount of detail what exactly they are looking for by way of new accessibility-related features in Lubuntu 11.10 Oneiric? Without that, developers are going to be unable to determine whether or not they might have time/energy/interest/skills to do the work. In other words, please write a clear specification before asking developers to implement it :) Jonathan ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu and Accessibility
Hiyas, much has happened recently, including lubuntu getting clearance for full adoption at 11.10 by Canonical. Whilst I have quietly pushed accessibility (well, maybe not so quietly) as a part of lubuntu, we now need a bit of help off this team. Our specification of the minimal hardware it will run on cannot be broken, nor can our commitment to pre i686 processors. https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu >From a general chat to our head of development on lubuntu, he is of the opinion that if the code is really (and I mean really) tight, that it would be possible to include within the very tight constraints that we are committed to be able to uphold the inclusion of accessibility and has agreed that we should really strive to attain this. We are short of devs who can dedicate resources to this task, so I ask that any of you who can assist do so. I'd really like to see lubuntu 11.10 come out with as much accessibility as is possible on "A Pentium II or Celeron system with 128 MiB of RAM is probably a bottom-line configuration that may yield slow yet usable system with Lubuntu" So, once you've all had your heart attacks and say it cannot be done... the ones who go "hmmm, that is actually possible.." Please make your selves known. Regards, Phill. -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
