Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-29 Thread Julien Lavergne
This is a quick summarise of the different type of installation,
up-to-date with 11.10 :

By using desktop ISO : Installation done using Ubiquity + a live
session, by copying the image of the CD into the system. It's the
recommend way for testing and installing Lubuntu. Note that using the
live session or the Install only mode will do teh same result, just
using less memory.

By using alternate ISO : Installation using debian installer type. No
live session available. Design to install Lubuntu on everything,
especially if the Ubiquity or the live session is not supported. You can
do the same with the command line, by using sudo apt-get install
lubuntu-desktop, on a minimum Ubuntu installation (see
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LowMemorySystems#Install_an_Ubuntu_command-line_system)

Minimal installation : Only on a command line system, just install the
lubuntu-core by doing sudo apt-get install lubuntu-core. It should
install only core components of Lubuntu + the artwork. I would suggest
to also install lxdm or lightdm to have a graphical login manager.

As you can see, the --no-install-recommends is not necessary since
11.10. It can be used for people who wants minimal depends, but you have
to be carefull, because sometimes some recommended packages are very
useful, and so not installed if you use --no-install-recommends. I don't
think we need other type of installation, unless I miss a use case :)

Regards,
Julien Lavergne



Le 12/28/2011 07:28 AM, Phill Whiteside a écrit :
 Hi Hùng,

 an apology from me.

 We will get it updated to the alternate ISO. As we got full adoption,
 the builds and releases of Lubuntu having both the approved system and
 our older not fully approved builds.

 I do thank you for bringing this to our attention, we are a small team
  can miss things.

 @ Julien  PCMan  an older FAQ, can it be up dated, or simply
 point to a more recent area.
 @ A J await until you are better  add it to the thread on the forum.

 Regards,

 Phill.


 On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com
 mailto:nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 I just checked our Minimal Install guide
 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.

 I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install
 --no-install-recommends lubuntu-desktop command to install
 Lubuntu. With --no-install-recommends we only have Lubuntu with
 PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update Manager and
 Preferred Applications.

 As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a
 full Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB
 because they can't use Ubiquity.
 Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when
 their desktops almost have nothing.

 Regards,
 TRẦN Duy Hùng
 http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-29 Thread Phill Whiteside
Hi boss,

so the information for 11.10 is correct at
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Lubuntu/GetLubuntu#A11.10 I hope!

If that is correct, then adding the section for 12.04 will be a much easier
task for me :)

Hoping you had a good Christmas,

Phill.

On Thu, Dec 29, 2011 at 10:47 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

  This is a quick summarise of the different type of installation,
 up-to-date with 11.10 :

 By using desktop ISO : Installation done using Ubiquity + a live session,
 by copying the image of the CD into the system. It's the recommend way for
 testing and installing Lubuntu. Note that using the live session or the
 Install only mode will do teh same result, just using less memory.

 By using alternate ISO : Installation using debian installer type. No live
 session available. Design to install Lubuntu on everything, especially if
 the Ubiquity or the live session is not supported. You can do the same with
 the command line, by using sudo apt-get install lubuntu-desktop, on a
 minimum Ubuntu installation (see
 https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LowMemorySystems#Install_an_Ubuntu_command-line_system
 )

 Minimal installation : Only on a command line system, just install the
 lubuntu-core by doing sudo apt-get install lubuntu-core. It should
 install only core components of Lubuntu + the artwork. I would suggest to
 also install lxdm or lightdm to have a graphical login manager.

 As you can see, the --no-install-recommends is not necessary since 11.10.
 It can be used for people who wants minimal depends, but you have to be
 carefull, because sometimes some recommended packages are very useful, and
 so not installed if you use --no-install-recommends. I don't think we need
 other type of installation, unless I miss a use case :)

 Regards,
 Julien Lavergne



 Le 12/28/2011 07:28 AM, Phill Whiteside a écrit :

 Hi Hùng,

  an apology from me.

  We will get it updated to the alternate ISO. As we got full adoption,
 the builds and releases of Lubuntu having both the approved system and our
 older not fully approved builds.

  I do thank you for bringing this to our attention, we are a small team 
 can miss things.

  @ Julien  PCMan  an older FAQ, can it be up dated, or simply point
 to a more recent area.
 @ A J await until you are better  add it to the thread on the forum.

  Regards,

  Phill.


 On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.comwrote:

 Hi all,

  I just checked our Minimal Install guide at
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.

  I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
 lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With --no-install-recommends
 we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
 Manager and Preferred Applications.

  As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
 Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
 can't use Ubiquity.
 Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
 desktops almost have nothing.

  Regards,
 TRẦN Duy Hùng
 http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-28 Thread Phil Lockhart



On 28/12/11 07:01, Jared Norris wrote:

On 28 December 2011 13:46, Hùng Trầnnguyentieu...@gmail.com  wrote:

Hi all,

I just checked our Minimal Install guide
at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.

I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With --no-install-recommends
we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
Manager and Preferred Applications.

As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
can't use Ubiquity.
Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
desktops almost have nothing.

Regards,
TRẦN Duy Hùng
http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/

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My understanding is different although I don't know which of us is
correct. For mine if all you're trying to do is avoid Ubiquity then
why not just use the alternate installer? To me the minimal
installation is just that, the bare minimum. From what I understand
the minimum install is aimed at REALLY low end computers or people not
wanting to download lots of data over the internet. If you have a
really low end computer you only want the bare minimum, if you don't
want to download large ISOs why would you want to download all the
other stuff anyway?

I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just have a different understanding
and hoping to clear the issue for both our sakes.


I used the alternate to install to an old laptop 1.3 GHz Celeron M  256 
Mb RAM (since upgraded).
Ubiquity kept crashing  the alternate worked just fine.  It gave me a 
full Lubuntu install.


Today I have used the Mini iso to install to a Compaq TC1000 Tablet with 
a 1GHz Transmeta Crusoe CPU  256 Mb RAM (possibly 512,it's a bit 
unclear).   No, I don't know what a Crusoe CPU is either.  For the 
tablet I want the ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of 'stuff' on there  I'll try to 
build something half workable from there.  All I have at the moment is a 
browser, window manager  synaptic, pretty much.  I'm going to start on 
wireless tomorrow.


I never thought I'd see the day I'd be doing this kind of thing, you 
guys have inspired me to be brave :)




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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-28 Thread Benny Hult


 I used the alternate to install to an old laptop 1.3 GHz Celeron M  256
 Mb RAM (since upgraded).
 Ubiquity kept crashing  the alternate worked just fine.  It gave me a
 full Lubuntu install.

 Today I have used the Mini iso to install to a Compaq TC1000 Tablet with a
 1GHz Transmeta Crusoe CPU  256 Mb RAM (possibly 512,it's a bit unclear).
 No, I don't know what a Crusoe CPU is either.  For the tablet I want the
 ABSOLUTE MINIMUM of 'stuff' on there  I'll try to build something half
 workable from there.  All I have at the moment is a browser, window manager
  synaptic, pretty much.  I'm going to start on wireless tomorrow.

 I never thought I'd see the day I'd be doing this kind of thing, you guys
 have inspired me to be brave :)



Back in the change of the millenium there was a common question that was
directed to Linus when he was talking some where: What does Transmeta do?
Usually couple of hands got rised with same question.

Oh well, later Transmeta released Crusoe CPU which was totally low energy
consumption CPU, a huge improvement on laptop markets (flybook for
example). Later Transmeta got purchased by VIA. You can read more about it
from wikipedia for example.

And yes Minimal CD is da thing, smartest way to install operating system.
And when you install lubuntu-desktop meta package, it will fetch the whole
thingie. lubuntu-core installs just the core, basics to build your desktop.

Laters ;)
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-27 Thread Phill Whiteside
Hi Hùng,

an apology from me.

We will get it updated to the alternate ISO. As we got full adoption, the
builds and releases of Lubuntu having both the approved system and our
older not fully approved builds.

I do thank you for bringing this to our attention, we are a small team 
can miss things.

@ Julien  PCMan  an older FAQ, can it be up dated, or simply point to
a more recent area.
@ A J await until you are better  add it to the thread on the forum.

Regards,

Phill.


On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 3:46 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi all,

 I just checked our Minimal Install guide at
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.

 I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
 lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With --no-install-recommends
 we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
 Manager and Preferred Applications.

 As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
 Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
 can't use Ubiquity.
 Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
 desktops almost have nothing.

 Regards,
 TRẦN Duy Hùng
 http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/

 ___
 Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
 Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
 Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
 More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp




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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-27 Thread Jared Norris
On 28 December 2011 13:46, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi all,

 I just checked our Minimal Install guide
 at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.

 I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
 lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With --no-install-recommends
 we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
 Manager and Preferred Applications.

 As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
 Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
 can't use Ubiquity.
 Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
 desktops almost have nothing.

 Regards,
 TRẦN Duy Hùng
 http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/

 ___
 Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
 Post to     : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
 Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
 More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp


My understanding is different although I don't know which of us is
correct. For mine if all you're trying to do is avoid Ubiquity then
why not just use the alternate installer? To me the minimal
installation is just that, the bare minimum. From what I understand
the minimum install is aimed at REALLY low end computers or people not
wanting to download lots of data over the internet. If you have a
really low end computer you only want the bare minimum, if you don't
want to download large ISOs why would you want to download all the
other stuff anyway?

I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just have a different understanding
and hoping to clear the issue for both our sakes.

-- 
Regards,

Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych)
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-27 Thread Hùng Trần
Hi Phill,

You're welcome! I think it's not your fault and I'm very happy to be a part
of the team :).

Hi Jared,

I agree with you too. Actually sudo apt-get install
--no-install-recommends lubuntu-desktop is the command I always use
because I don't have time to remove the applications I don't use (like
ace-of-penguins game, gnome-mplayer...).

Hi all,

I think we should give some explaintions in the wiki. If reader wants a
full Lubuntu desktop, just use sudo apt-get install lubuntu-desktop, if
he/she wants a minimal desktop and then add new applications by
him/herself, so just use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
lubuntu-desktop.

Regards,
TRẦN Duy Hùng
http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/


On 28 December 2011 14:01, Jared Norris jrnor...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 28 December 2011 13:46, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I just checked our Minimal Install guide
  at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.
 
  I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
  lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With
 --no-install-recommends
  we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
  Manager and Preferred Applications.
 
  As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
  Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
  can't use Ubiquity.
  Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
  desktops almost have nothing.
 
  Regards,
  TRẦN Duy Hùng
  http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/
 
  ___
  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
 

 My understanding is different although I don't know which of us is
 correct. For mine if all you're trying to do is avoid Ubiquity then
 why not just use the alternate installer? To me the minimal
 installation is just that, the bare minimum. From what I understand
 the minimum install is aimed at REALLY low end computers or people not
 wanting to download lots of data over the internet. If you have a
 really low end computer you only want the bare minimum, if you don't
 want to download large ISOs why would you want to download all the
 other stuff anyway?

 I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just have a different understanding
 and hoping to clear the issue for both our sakes.

 --
 Regards,

 Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych)
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-27 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
Keeping low profile for some days is VERY boring but I won't overdo it so
one reply and I'm off :)

From what I understand:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD

http://www.ubuntu.com/download/ubuntu/alternative-download

If you read the above two links, you maybe a little bit confused and think
both are the same but in the matter of fact, these two installs are NOT the
same.

From the first link:

The Minimal CD will download packages from online archives at installation
 time instead of providing them on the install CD itself. Downloading
 packages at install time reduces the size of the install CD to
 approximately 5 to 30MB depending on architecture (see below), as well as
 providing only the packages needed for installation. The download time
 savings achieved by using a Minimal CD can be significant, as only current
 packages are downloaded, so there is no need to upgrade packages
 immediately after installation. The Minimal CD uses a text-based installer
 like the Alternate CD, making the CD image as compact as possible.



From the second link:

The text-based alternate installer can be downloaded from a location near
 you http://www.ubuntu.com/start-download. This installation CD is
 suited for computers unable to run the graphical desktop based
 installation, either because their computer does not meet the minimum
 requirements for the live cd or because their computer requires
 configuration after the installation is complete in order to use the
 desktop.



This link here:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/LowMemorySystems
May give a better understanding.

From what I understand, the mini install could be used not only for people
with low end hardware but also for those who seek simplicity and want to
build their system as per what they really need and avoid the extra stuff.
Once you have the base or the core system, you can install whatever you
want.

So, I'm with Jared and also happy to be proved wrong :)
If we are wrong, then the above two links MUST be updated and someone must
be more accurate.

By the way, last night, I was SO bored so I downloaded the mini iso and
installed it on one of my test PCs.  I managed to find a wired connection
(finally) because I always use the Wireless connection. I'm actually
planning to build a system that even lighter than Lubuntu (the one that we
all know). I'm planning to do some tests so later on I can install Lubuntu
instead of Linux Mint LXDE 9 on this:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614

By the way, YES, that laptop does work until now. At that time, Lubuntu
10.04 did not work at all and I had less experience than now. I do want to
install Lubuntu and will do whatever it takes to do that.

Thank you everyone :)
Now, logging off.


@Phill
Once I can resume my normal activities, I'm going to finish my test with
the mini install and if I managed to do what I want, I'll write a simple
guide and add it to Lubuntu One Stop Thread :) if there will be more
details then I'll write a new thread and then add it to LOST.

:)


On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 11:01 AM, Jared Norris jrnor...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 28 December 2011 13:46, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I just checked our Minimal Install guide
  at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.
 
  I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
  lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With
 --no-install-recommends
  we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
  Manager and Preferred Applications.
 
  As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
  Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
  can't use Ubiquity.
  Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
  desktops almost have nothing.
 
  Regards,
  TRẦN Duy Hùng
  http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/
 
  ___
  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
 

 My understanding is different although I don't know which of us is
 correct. For mine if all you're trying to do is avoid Ubiquity then
 why not just use the alternate installer? To me the minimal
 installation is just that, the bare minimum. From what I understand
 the minimum install is aimed at REALLY low end computers or people not
 wanting to download lots of data over the internet. If you have a
 really low end computer you only want the bare minimum, if you don't
 want to download large ISOs why would you want to download all the
 other stuff anyway?

 I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just have a different understanding
 and hoping to clear the issue for both our sakes.

 --
 Regards,

 Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych)
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris

 

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Minimal Install issue in Wiki

2011-12-27 Thread Phill Whiteside
As you know, before we were adopted, we only had 'home spun' disks...

The Full On Ubiquity was always to be the official one, but not a great
deal of help for lower spec computers. The argument did go up as to why
they botched a bug by requiring 2 X Ram instead of simply putting your
patch in. You do not know how much this idiotic 'fix' caused, but we were
not adopted at that point and could not log it as a regression. Since then
the bug has remained, it does, Jared, really grate me as it was such a
simple fix to bloody make and get Ubiquity running at a decent speed.

To keep the peace, we were told to accept the alternate iso which does not
require Ubiquity. As the Canonical team are now also trying to build PPC /
Mac-Intel / ARM etc. I do ask what are the more important cases for the
kernel team and also the QA / Testing team to prioritise?

Julien has already made it quite clear that any group that wish support for
a particular chip set Get a testing team together  we will do it. No
decent testing team == no support. Oh, does this sound backwards?... Until
we have people to test, we simply cannot test... So go get your friends.

@ QA - do tell me where I am wrong in terms of bodies to test.

Regards,

Phill.

On Wed, Dec 28, 2011 at 7:01 AM, Jared Norris jrnor...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 28 December 2011 13:46, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hi all,
 
  I just checked our Minimal Install guide
  at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/DocumentationHelp/MinimalInstall.
 
  I don't know why we use sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends
  lubuntu-desktop command to install Lubuntu. With
 --no-install-recommends
  we only have Lubuntu with PCManFM, Leafpad, LXTerminal, Synaptic, Update
  Manager and Preferred Applications.
 
  As I understand, Minimal Install is for people who want to get a full
  Lubuntu desktop by installing via a Ubuntu minimal CD or USB because they
  can't use Ubiquity.
  Using --no-install-recommends could make newbie confused when their
  desktops almost have nothing.
 
  Regards,
  TRẦN Duy Hùng
  http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/
 
  ___
  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
 

 My understanding is different although I don't know which of us is
 correct. For mine if all you're trying to do is avoid Ubiquity then
 why not just use the alternate installer? To me the minimal
 installation is just that, the bare minimum. From what I understand
 the minimum install is aimed at REALLY low end computers or people not
 wanting to download lots of data over the internet. If you have a
 really low end computer you only want the bare minimum, if you don't
 want to download large ISOs why would you want to download all the
 other stuff anyway?

 I'm happy to be proved wrong but I just have a different understanding
 and hoping to clear the issue for both our sakes.

 --
 Regards,

 Jared Norris JP(Qual) BBehSc(Psych)
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/JaredNorris

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