Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
Le jeudi 17 septembre 2009 à 21:52 +0200, André Rebentisch a écrit : > 2009/9/17 Julien Lavergne > > Well I don't think there is such bad usability issue with > gnome-player. > > I can also see that this choice [of SMplayer] is against some > principle : > - Only use libraries from other desktops when they are small > or > efficient enough and have few dependencies. (in this case QT) > > The very same applies to GTK+. GTK+ does not belong more to the family > than QT. Additionally the Gnome-Player has very problematic Gnome > integration dependencies. There is no additionally Gnome depends when installing gnome-mplayer on Lubuntu. Which depends is problematic ? Also, you can't compare GTK+ when LXDE is build with, and another toolkit which is added for only 1 application. > We had a question about VLC, also QT based. Ideal would be a > lightweight LXDE movie player. SMplayer looks like a great interim > compromise for the application space. Switching to VLC will give a reason to depends on QT, by solving the problem of the non-free depends of mplayer :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
"""Keep the user interface simple and intuitive. Never design some geek-style GUI. (the GUI of gnome-mplayer is much cleaner than the SMplayer one IMO).""" Gnome-MPlayer is certainly simpler, but I don't think either one falls into the "Geek-Style" UI stereotype. Your average user could probably sit down at either one and figure out how to play a movie: Gnome-MPlayer: http://www.icewalkers.com/scr/n2887/gnome-mplayer.jpg SMPlayer: http://www.icewalkers.com/scr/n2997/smplayer.jpg Personally I prefer SMPlayer. And maybe it's just me, but I don't really understand the fuss over a 20MB library that's a dependency for a HUGE number of very good applications. It's not like we're installing KDE or anything; they're just widgets. If SMPlayer has less pervasive tendencies then let's suck up that 20MB and use it. (I also find SMPlayer generally more stable and easier-to-use than it's GTK-styled counterpart). But if we're going to throw in Qt then we might as well go for VLC over either one of the MPlayer options. It would solve the problem of LAME legalities, and it's a very well-known media player in the non-Linux world (which is a good thing for transitioning users). Having a media player included on the ISO is essential from a desktop-completeness perspective. If MPlayer and its derivatives cannot do that then I say we should look elsewhere for a media player that can. Maybe (and this is a very, very big maybe) someone can/will get energetic enough to write a GTK fork of VLC that we can use. The suggestion's been floating around for a while, but no one's taken the initiative as far as I know. We could (in theory) create our "LXDE Movie Player" by "simply" changing VLC to use GTK. Yes, I realize that's a major undertaking, but it's the kind of change that the VLC community would welcome, not to mention all those Gnome and XFCE fans who want a better-integrated VLC. Any GTK programmers up for a challenge on behalf of us all? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
2009/9/17 Julien Lavergne > Well I don't think there is such bad usability issue with gnome-player. > I can also see that this choice [of SMplayer] is against some principle : > > - Only use libraries from other desktops when they are small or > efficient enough and have few dependencies. (in this case QT) > The very same applies to GTK+. GTK+ does not belong more to the family than QT. Additionally the Gnome-Player has very problematic Gnome integration dependencies. The LXDE design principle aims to avoid library dependency infection and associated complexity risks and maintenance costs. In other words, because LXDE shares basic toolkit similarities with Gnome it is essential to mind the gravitation. Maybe I can describe the design principle as "contained" and "lean" (LXDE) vs. "pervasive" (Gnome). It is important to seperate the "desktop applications layer" from the "default desktop environment layer". Well, I can live with this, but I'm sure there will be some > interrogations like "Why I need to install QT ?". In fact, there is > already questions like this on French forums :) > A reminiscence of an irrational smear campaign against a magnificient toolkit. Safe to ignore. We had a question about VLC, also QT based. Ideal would be a lightweight LXDE movie player. SMplayer looks like a great interim compromise for the application space. --- A. ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
I did not think there was a significant usability issue in gnome-player either. I only had a minor change requested for the seed currently, related to a different issue, but I wanted to get feedback on whether this should be changed as well... Julien Lavergne wrote: > Le jeudi 17 septembre 2009 à 14:15 +0800, Andrew Lee a écrit : >> Hi, >> >> SMplayer >> >> As far as I remember from the application selections IRC meeting with >> other LXDE core developers, the SMplayer has been chosen because of the >> LXDE design principles: >> "Usability is always the top one concern." >> >> Details: http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE_Design_Principles > Well I don't think there is such bad usability issue with gnome-player. > I can also see that this choice is against some principle : > - Only use libraries from other desktops when they are small or > efficient enough and have few dependencies. (in this case QT) > - Keep the user interface simple and intuitive. Never design some > geek-style GUI. (the GUI of gnome-mplayer is much cleaner than the > SMplayer one IMO). > > Well, I can live with this, but I'm sure there will be some > interrogations like "Why I need to install QT ?". In fact, there is > already questions like this on French forums :) > >> Mplayer >> --- >> I only know the mplayer is in Debian main which means it would ship with >> Debian ISO images. Honestly, I have no iea on the status of mplayer >> package in ubuntu. > To compare to Debian, the Ubuntu package of Mplayer will be in contrib. > I think it's mostly a problem with LAME, but I didn't dig to much about > this issue. I didn't realize that Mplayer is in main for Debian :) > > Regards, > Julien Lavergne > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <>___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
Le jeudi 17 septembre 2009 à 14:15 +0800, Andrew Lee a écrit : > Hi, > > SMplayer > > As far as I remember from the application selections IRC meeting with > other LXDE core developers, the SMplayer has been chosen because of the > LXDE design principles: > "Usability is always the top one concern." > > Details: http://wiki.lxde.org/en/LXDE_Design_Principles Well I don't think there is such bad usability issue with gnome-player. I can also see that this choice is against some principle : - Only use libraries from other desktops when they are small or efficient enough and have few dependencies. (in this case QT) - Keep the user interface simple and intuitive. Never design some geek-style GUI. (the GUI of gnome-mplayer is much cleaner than the SMplayer one IMO). Well, I can live with this, but I'm sure there will be some interrogations like "Why I need to install QT ?". In fact, there is already questions like this on French forums :) > Mplayer > --- > I only know the mplayer is in Debian main which means it would ship with > Debian ISO images. Honestly, I have no iea on the status of mplayer > package in ubuntu. To compare to Debian, the Ubuntu package of Mplayer will be in contrib. I think it's mostly a problem with LAME, but I didn't dig to much about this issue. I didn't realize that Mplayer is in main for Debian :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
2009/9/16 Glen Bizeau > What about VLC? > > On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Please note that I don't want to discuss all the applications of the > > seed, but show some problems with the choice for the video player. > > > > There is currently 2 problems : > > - SMplayer brings unnecessary depends on QT packages (near 20 Mb). If > > it's only to bring a better GUI for Mplayer, there is gnome-mplayer > > which should achieve this goal. If nobody complain, I'll replace > > smplayer by gnome-player in the seed. > > > > - Mplayer depends on problematic packages (like LAME which have patents > > issues). It means that Mplayer can't be shipped on a ISO, because it's > > illegal in some countries. > > The ideal solution is to find a small GTK+ video player, with Gstreamer > > support, which allow installing problematic packages after the initial > > installation. Unfortunately, I can't find any :( > > A temporary solution is to put mplayer to recommends packages, instead > > of a depends. In this case, lubuntu-desktop could be installed without > > mplayer. > > I plan to move mplayer to recommends if no better solution is found. > > > > Regards, > > Julien Lavergne > > > > > > ___ > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > or Xine/gXine? ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
What about VLC? On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 6:49 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote: > Hi, > > Please note that I don't want to discuss all the applications of the > seed, but show some problems with the choice for the video player. > > There is currently 2 problems : > - SMplayer brings unnecessary depends on QT packages (near 20 Mb). If > it's only to bring a better GUI for Mplayer, there is gnome-mplayer > which should achieve this goal. If nobody complain, I'll replace > smplayer by gnome-player in the seed. > > - Mplayer depends on problematic packages (like LAME which have patents > issues). It means that Mplayer can't be shipped on a ISO, because it's > illegal in some countries. > The ideal solution is to find a small GTK+ video player, with Gstreamer > support, which allow installing problematic packages after the initial > installation. Unfortunately, I can't find any :( > A temporary solution is to put mplayer to recommends packages, instead > of a depends. In this case, lubuntu-desktop could be installed without > mplayer. > I plan to move mplayer to recommends if no better solution is found. > > Regards, > Julien Lavergne > > > ___ > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp > ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
[Lubuntu-desktop] Mplayer and SMplayer problems
Hi, Please note that I don't want to discuss all the applications of the seed, but show some problems with the choice for the video player. There is currently 2 problems : - SMplayer brings unnecessary depends on QT packages (near 20 Mb). If it's only to bring a better GUI for Mplayer, there is gnome-mplayer which should achieve this goal. If nobody complain, I'll replace smplayer by gnome-player in the seed. - Mplayer depends on problematic packages (like LAME which have patents issues). It means that Mplayer can't be shipped on a ISO, because it's illegal in some countries. The ideal solution is to find a small GTK+ video player, with Gstreamer support, which allow installing problematic packages after the initial installation. Unfortunately, I can't find any :( A temporary solution is to put mplayer to recommends packages, instead of a depends. In this case, lubuntu-desktop could be installed without mplayer. I plan to move mplayer to recommends if no better solution is found. Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
