Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-12 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
Yes, I do remember but have you seen the long list of dependences that come
with it? :)
I'm afraid with 242MB RAM, I may not get what I really want - just a
thought.


On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 As I mentioned it before ksysguard is the only tool that gives numbers
 that are reasonable. The other way would be going into /proc and check it
 manually



 -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer

 --
 Am 12.11.2011 21:49 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com:

 Hi everyone,

 Being little sick and having problems with sleeping, I wasn't able to do
 much regarding the test. Above all, I'm having different readings using
 some of the tools which have been mentioned here. I'm not sure what to do?
 each tool is having different readings than the other. I'm mainly using
 LXTask and GNOME System Monitor. Each one is showing different process for
 example LXTask is showing 3 process for Chromium while GNOME System Monitor
 is showing 5. Firefox as always will be shown as one process or two
 sometimes (plugin-container).

 I think there must be a better efficient tool to do this benchmark. I
 don't think it should be done manually.

 I'll keep looking ...

 Thanks!

 P.S.
 Just thought to update you about that.


 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.comwrote:

 Guys,

 With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this
 debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?
 I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all
 but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder
 voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I
 mean, they should agree about that.

 EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep
 Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow
 Ubuntu's Steps.
 Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what
 could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to
 Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how
 many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my
 own information.

 I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine
 with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by
 default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.

 I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do
 some tests and send the report via mailing list?

 As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission
 accomplished.
 IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.

 I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you:

 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list.
 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to
 everyone.


 I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I
 could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect
 is my motto :)

 Cya



 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.dewrote:

 Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
  Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This
  is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
 Isn't that the same ?
 I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
 I guess that is a low machine.
 If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.

  Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such
  personal opinions out of this discussion.

 If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
 ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
 experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
 arguments.
 And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
 advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.


  Google is dropping H264 support:
 
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

 Google Chrome != Chromium

  Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
  sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
  available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
  it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

 At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
 tab cannot crash the whole browser.

  While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
  web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
  than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
  source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
  nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
  continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
  different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
  

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-12 Thread leszek.lesner
What has the ram size todo with the harddisk space the app and it dependencies use ?-- Gesendet von meinem HP VeerAm 12.11.2011 21:57 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Yes, I do remember but have you seen the long list of dependences that come with it? :)Im afraid with 242MB RAM, I may not get what I really want - just a thought.
On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM,  leszek.les...@web.de wrote:
As I mentioned it before ksysguard is the only tool that gives numbers that are reasonable. The other way would be going into /proc and check it manually
-- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer
Am 12.11.2011 21:49 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com: Hi everyone,Being little sick and having problems with sleeping, I wasnt able to do much regarding the test. Above all, Im having different readings using some of the tools which have been mentioned here. Im not sure what to do? each tool is having different readings than the other. Im mainly using LXTask and GNOME System Monitor. Each one is showing different process for example LXTask is showing 3 process for Chromium while GNOME System Monitor is showing 5. Firefox as always will be shown as one process or two sometimes (plugin-container).

I think there must be a better efficient tool to do this benchmark. I dont think it should be done manually.Ill keep looking ...Thanks!P.S.Just thought to update you about that.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote:

Guys,With all due respect to EVERYONE, Im not sure if this debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean, they should agree about that. 


EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu as its and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntus Steps. Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. Im ready to do a survey and see how many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my own information.


I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because Im having Multi-Boot machine with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do some tests and send the report via mailing list? 


As many already mentioned, its apt-get install and mission accomplished.IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.Im out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you:


1- Ill do my test and send it via mailing list.2- Ill write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to everyone.I dont mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I could be wrong but thats my point after all. Disagree but dont disrespect is my motto :)


CyaOn Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:


Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
 Lets not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
 is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
Isnt that the same ?
I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
I guess that is a low machine.
If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.

 Lets not start a war here... I dont want to be rude, but please keep such
 personal opinions out of this discussion.

If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
arguments.
And no I dont want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.


 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

Google Chrome != Chromium

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 its a bit harder to know whats really going on.

At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
tab cannot crash the whole browser.

 While Im not a Google-hater, I think its very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, Ill let Julien 

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-12 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
With LXTask and GNOME System Monitor opened along side with a browser, that
was already slow. I haven't tried the app you suggested so I was JUST
wondering, that is all :)

On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 1:01 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 What has the ram size todo with the harddisk space the app and it
 dependencies use ?




 -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer

 --
 Am 12.11.2011 21:57 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com:


 Yes, I do remember but have you seen the long list of dependences that
 come with it? :)
 I'm afraid with 242MB RAM, I may not get what I really want - just a
 thought.


 On Sun, Nov 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM, leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 As I mentioned it before ksysguard is the only tool that gives numbers
 that are reasonable. The other way would be going into /proc and check it
 manually



 -- Gesendet von meinem HP Veer

 --
 Am 12.11.2011 21:49 schrieb amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com:

 Hi everyone,

 Being little sick and having problems with sleeping, I wasn't able to do
 much regarding the test. Above all, I'm having different readings using
 some of the tools which have been mentioned here. I'm not sure what to do?
 each tool is having different readings than the other. I'm mainly using
 LXTask and GNOME System Monitor. Each one is showing different process for
 example LXTask is showing 3 process for Chromium while GNOME System Monitor
 is showing 5. Firefox as always will be shown as one process or two
 sometimes (plugin-container).

 I think there must be a better efficient tool to do this benchmark. I
 don't think it should be done manually.

 I'll keep looking ...

 Thanks!

 P.S.
 Just thought to update you about that.


 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 11:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.comwrote:

 Guys,

 With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this
 debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?
 I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all
 but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder
 voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I
 mean, they should agree about that.

 EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep
 Lubuntu as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow
 Ubuntu's Steps.
 Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what
 could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to
 Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how
 many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my
 own information.

 I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine
 with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by
 default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.

 I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not
 do some tests and send the report via mailing list?

 As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission
 accomplished.
 IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.

 I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to
 you:

 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list.
 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to
 everyone.


 I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and
 I could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't
 disrespect is my motto :)

 Cya



 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.dewrote:

 Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
  Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This
  is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
 Isn't that the same ?
 I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
 I guess that is a low machine.
 If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.

  Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please
 keep such
  personal opinions out of this discussion.

 If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
 ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
 experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
 arguments.
 And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
 advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.


  Google is dropping H264 support:
 
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

 Google Chrome != Chromium

  Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
  sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
  available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
  it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

 At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
 tab cannot crash the whole browser.

  While I'm not a Google-hater, I 

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-10 Thread Michael Rawson
On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 17:03:14 -0500
James King jlki...@gmail.com wrote:

 What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice
 to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't
 matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each
 continues to improve.
 
 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote:
  Guys,
 
  With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this
  debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?
  I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but
  we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice
  IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean,
  they should agree about that.
 
  EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu
  as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's
  Steps.
  Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what
  could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to
  Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how
  many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my
  own information.
 
  I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with
  many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default,
  not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.
 
  I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do
  some tests and send the report via mailing list?
 
  As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished.
  IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.
 
  I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you:
 
  1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list.
  2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to
  everyone.
 
 
  I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I
  could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect
  is my motto :)
 
  Cya
 
 
  On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:
 
  Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
   Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
   This
   is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
  Isn't that the same ?
  I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
  I guess that is a low machine.
  If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.
 
   Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
   such
   personal opinions out of this discussion.
 
  If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
  ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
  experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
  arguments.
  And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
  advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.
 
 
   Google is dropping H264 support:
   http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html
 
  Google Chrome != Chromium
 
   Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
   sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
   available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
   it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.
 
  At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
  tab cannot crash the whole browser.
 
   While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
   web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
   than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
   source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
   nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
   continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
   different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
   the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
   supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
   maintain Chromium).
 
  I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of
  Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their
  existens.
  And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free
  software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the
  free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free
  software products.
 
 
 
  ___
  Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  Post to     : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
  Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop
  More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
 
 
 
  --
  Best Regards,
 
  amjjawad
  Lubuntu One Stop 

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-10 Thread Chris
Maybe it should be a bug/feature for ubiquity? Just an idea.

With metta, Chris
On Nov 10, 2011 5:37 PM, Michael Rawson michaelrawso...@gmail.com wrote:

 On Wed, 9 Nov 2011 17:03:14 -0500
 James King jlki...@gmail.com wrote:

  What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice
  to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't
  matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each
  continues to improve.
 
  On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com
 wrote:
   Guys,
  
   With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this
   debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?
   I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of
 all but
   we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder
 voice
   IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I
 mean,
   they should agree about that.
  
   EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep
 Lubuntu
   as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's
   Steps.
   Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows
 what
   could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to
   Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see
 how
   many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for
 my
   own information.
  
   I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot
 machine with
   many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by
 default,
   not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.
  
   I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not
 do
   some tests and send the report via mailing list?
  
   As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission
 accomplished.
   IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium
 talk.
  
   I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to
 you:
  
   1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list.
   2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it
 to
   everyone.
  
  
   I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion
 and I
   could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't
 disrespect
   is my motto :)
  
   Cya
  
  
   On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de
 wrote:
  
   Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
This
is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
   Isn't that the same ?
   I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
   I guess that is a low machine.
   If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.
  
Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please
 keep
such
personal opinions out of this discussion.
  
   If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
   ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good
 user
   experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by
 good
   arguments.
   And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
   advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.
  
  
Google is dropping H264 support:
   
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html
  
   Google Chrome != Chromium
  
Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process
 so
it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.
  
   At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that
 one
   tab cannot crash the whole browser.
  
While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the
 free
web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more
 open
than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think
 open
source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope
 Firefox
continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can
 help
maintain Chromium).
  
   I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of
   Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their
   existens.
   And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free
   software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the
   free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two
 free
   software products.
  
  
  
   

Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Chris
Bonjour Jean-Pierre,

I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the
 machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3  4 and 256
 to 512 ram.

 It's like Ali said, it's just a script which does some automated actions,
like see what the CPU usage and MEM consumption. The idea for now is just
shutting down all current processes of chromium-browser/firefox (or just
checking if it's already running or completely shutting down) and starting
a default set of tabs. That way the results should be comparable and
doable for every machine.

With metta, Chris

P.S.: I still need to look into the performance test-suite of Tom's
Hardware what that does exactly.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread

On 11/09/2011 01:55 AM, Chris wrote:
P.S.: I still need to look into the performance test-suite of Tom's 
Hardware what that does exactly
Not sure about Tom's but I couldn't find any really good solutions for 
benchmarking (I was sniffing around OpenBenchmarking) browsers outside 
of silly stuff like Java and such. I certainly couldn't find anything 
that could reliably, repeatably measure startup speed. I think that's 
going to be our most contentious issue with this project.


wxl/walter

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Leszek Lesner
Am 09.11.2011 10:55, schrieb Chris:
 Bonjour Jean-Pierre,

 I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the
 machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3  4 and 256
 to 512 ram.
 It's like Ali said, it's just a script which does some automated actions,
 like see what the CPU usage and MEM consumption. The idea for now is just
 shutting down all current processes of chromium-browser/firefox (or just
 checking if it's already running or completely shutting down) and starting
 a default set of tabs. That way the results should be comparable and
 doable for every machine.

 With metta, Chris


Its somehow funny to see everyone trying to look into the memory
consumption of firefox vs. chromium. But I just want keep in mind that
those aren't the only criteria for firefox vs. chromium.
Don't forget to compare them feature wise.
In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)
or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
other tabs. Also the startup time of chromium is still far better than
the one of firefox. Chromium also offers some little nice features like
a incognito mode that can be used alongside with the normal browsing
mode (which firefox does not have, as it closes the 'normal' browser and
opens with a incognito profile)
The memory consumption is nearly the same. Chromium seems to have a
lower memory consumption when it comes to a few open tabs. If you have
more than 5 tabs open firefox might be lower on memory consumption but
this is only my impression so far(I did not do any tests on it). If you
want to dig deep into the materia I guess reading out /proc processes is
the right way to go, or you could use the kde systemmonitor (sysguard)
which offers the most accurate memory consumption details of all the
systemmonitors so far (even giving you a list of /proc processes it
analyzed) 

All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
better features.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Jeremy Bicha
On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
 at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
 important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

Google is dropping H264 support:
http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

 or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
 process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
 other tabs.

Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

 All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
 better features.

That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
maintain Chromium).

Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread A. Andjelkovic
Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such
personal opinions out of this discussion.
I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in
features.
We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
Chromium, use the least resources.
We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

  In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
  at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
  important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

  or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
  process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
  other tabs.

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

  All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
  better features.

 That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
 possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
 Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
 has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
 improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
 Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

 Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Gabriel Salles
Should we consider Epiphany too or it is not stable enough yet?

Gabriel Salles



2011/11/9 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.
 I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in
 features.
 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
 is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

  In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
  at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
  important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

  or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
  process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
  other tabs.

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

  All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
  better features.

 That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
 possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
 Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
 has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
 improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
 Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

 Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread b g
This all sounds like personal preference and subjective arguments to me.
 After all, users can install whatever browser they desire.

Personally, I wish Lubuntu would boot as fast as it used to.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.
 I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in
 features.
 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
 is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

  In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
  at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
  important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

  or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
  process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
  other tabs.

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

  All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
  better features.

 That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
 possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
 Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
 has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
 improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
 Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

 Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.I think we can all agree that
 both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features.
 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.*


Could NOT agree more :)
Well said!

I second this:

 *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.*


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:55 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.
 I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in
 features.
 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
 is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

  In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
  at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
  important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

  or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
  process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
  other tabs.

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

  All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
  better features.

 That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
 possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
 Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
 has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
 improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
 Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

 Jeremy

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Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755
My Wiki Page https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad | My
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and Short*
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread A. Andjelkovic
On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 4:55 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.com wrote:

 Should we consider Epiphany too or it is not stable enough yet?
 Gabriel Salles


Quoting Julien:
We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a
strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important
part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on
it.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Leszek Lesner
Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
 Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
 is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
Isn't that the same ?
I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
I guess that is a low machine.
If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep such
 personal opinions out of this discussion.

If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
arguments.
And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.


 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

Google Chrome != Chromium

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
tab cannot crash the whole browser.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of
Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their
existens.
And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free
software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the
free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free
software products.



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Tim Bernhard
Again, what is the goal of this?  If the goal is to find the lighter of the
two, will Lubuntu test and choose the lightest with each release?  Does
Lubuntu want to be constantly changing browsers?  Dose Lubuntu care if it's
open source?

I agree it should be one of the two mentioned.  I think Lubuntu should
choose one and stick with it as long as it doesn't substantially fall
behind the other.  I don't think Lubuntu should split hairs over
benchmarks.  If the two are close, move on to the next question.

So what is the long range stance on this.  Lightest no matter what or
lightweight balanced of other criteria?

Tim



On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 9:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.
 I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in
 features.
 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather This
 is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

  In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just look
  at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
  important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

  or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a different
  process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
  other tabs.

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

  All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers the
  better features.

 That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
 possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
 Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
 has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
 improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
 Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

 Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
Ok, on the PC where I'm planning to do the test, the reading of both LXTask
and GNOME System Monitor are equal now :)

http://i39.tinypic.com/10ym7me.jpg

I don't know what is wrong with my Lubuntu 11.04? it's acting crazy
recently.

Will try to do the test today and will let you know :)


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:34 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote:

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.I think we can all agree that
 both Firefox and Chromium are rich in features.

 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.*


 Could NOT agree more :)
 Well said!

 I second this:

 *Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.*


 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 6:55 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such personal opinions out of this discussion.
 I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich in
 features.
 We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
 Chromium, use the least resources.
 We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box web
 browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an apt-get away.
 Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

  In my view Chromium offers still better features than firefox. Just
 look
  at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in my view
  important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is supported)

 Google is dropping H264 support:
 http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

  or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as a
 different
  process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not concerning for
  other tabs.

 Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
 sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
 available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
 it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

  All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster and offers
 the
  better features.

 That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique features: It's
 possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
 Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium. Firefox
 has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
 improve this next year). The user has more control over his data with
 Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

 While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
 web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
 than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
 source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
 nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
 continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
 different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
 the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
 supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
 maintain Chromium).

 Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread Michael Rawson

On 09/11/11 16:30, b g wrote:
This all sounds like personal preference and subjective arguments to 
me.  After all, users can install whatever browser they desire.


Personally, I wish Lubuntu would boot as fast as it used to.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:55 AM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com 
mailto:andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:


Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please
keep such personal opinions out of this discussion.
I think we can all agree that both Firefox and Chromium are rich
in features.
We are simply trying to find out which browser, out of Firefox and
Chromium, use the least resources.
We want to chose the lightest of the two to be our out-of-the-box
web browser, whatever users prefer to use after that is simply an
apt-get away.
Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but
rather This is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 3:21 PM, Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com
mailto:jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

On 9 November 2011 06:03, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de
mailto:leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 In my view Chromium offers still better features than
firefox. Just look
 at the HTML5 capabilities it just beats firefox here with in
my view
 important things just like HTML5 videoplayback (H264 is
supported)

Google is dropping H264 support:
http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

 or the fact that every browser tab in chromium is running as
a different
 process in a sandbox which makes a crash of one tab not
concerning for
 other tabs.

Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same
process so
it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

 All in all I am in flavor of Chromium as its still faster
and offers the
 better features.

That's a bit subjective as Firefox also offers unique
features: It's
possible to run a few hundred tabs in Firefox; the design of
Chromium's tabbar makes that much more painful in Chromium.
Firefox
has a much more powerful addon framework (although Chromium may
improve this next year). The user has more control over his
data with
Firefox Sync than with Google's version.

While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for
the free
web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit
more open
than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I
think open
source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope
Firefox
continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let
Julien and
the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are
fully
supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who
can help
maintain Chromium).

Jeremy

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I'm new-ish. How fast did it used to boot?

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
Guys,

With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this
debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?
I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all
but we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder
voice IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I
mean, they should agree about that.

EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu
as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's
Steps.
Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what
could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to
Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how
many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my
own information.

I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine
with many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by
default, not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.

I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do
some tests and send the report via mailing list?

As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished.
IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.

I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you:

1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list.
2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to
everyone.


I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I
could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect
is my motto :)

Cya


On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
  Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
 This
  is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
 Isn't that the same ?
 I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
 I guess that is a low machine.
 If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.

  Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
 such
  personal opinions out of this discussion.

 If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
 ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
 experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
 arguments.
 And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
 advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.


  Google is dropping H264 support:
  http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

 Google Chrome != Chromium

  Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
  sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
  available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
  it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

 At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
 tab cannot crash the whole browser.

  While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
  web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
  than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
  source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
  nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
  continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
  different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
  the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
  supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
  maintain Chromium).

 I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of
 Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their
 existens.
 And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free
 software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the
 free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free
 software products.



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-09 Thread James King
What are the chances of having an installer that gives you the choice
to install either one? Maybe even add Midori to the mix? It doesn't
matter to me either way: both are fast enough on my netbook and each
continues to improve.

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:52 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com wrote:
 Guys,

 With all due respect to EVERYONE, I'm not sure if this
 debate/discussion/argument is even healthy or not any more?
 I know we, as Lubuntu Team Members, must discuss between us first of all but
 we must not forget about one simple fact ... USERS have the louder voice
 IMHO. I do believe that such choice must first be made by users. I mean,
 they should agree about that.

 EVERYONE, and I mean everyone on Ubuntu Forum is asking us to keep Lubuntu
 as it's and to improve it to be even better BUT NOT TO follow Ubuntu's
 Steps.
 Everyone is aware that Mint is Rank 1 now on Distrowatch. Who knows what
 could happen? Do you guys know how many users has moved from Ubuntu to
 Lubuntu? I almost see 5-10 every day. I'm ready to do a survey and see how
 many actually moved to Lubuntu and will start that today, at least for my
 own information.

 I downloaded Fedora 16 LXDE today because I'm having Multi-Boot machine with
 many LXDE Distributions to compare between them. It has Firefox by default,
 not Chromium. This is FYI not FYA.

 I suggest instead of spending some time discussing about that, why not do
 some tests and send the report via mailing list?

 As many already mentioned, it's apt-get install and mission accomplished.
 IMHO, there are a lot to talk about rather than Firefox VS Chromium talk.

 I'm out of this discussion and going to do two things and get back to you:

 1- I'll do my test and send it via mailing list.
 2- I'll write my suggestions regarding 12.04 on my thread and send it to
 everyone.


 I don't mean to be rude here at all, just stating my humble opinion and I
 could be wrong but that's my point after all. Disagree but don't disrespect
 is my motto :)

 Cya


 On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM, Leszek Lesner leszek.les...@web.de wrote:

 Am 09.11.2011 15:55, schrieb A. Andjelkovic:
  Let's not think in terms of This is what I would prefer but rather
  This
  is what a user on a low spec machine would prefer.
 Isn't that the same ?
 I am running Chromium here on a 800 Mhz ARM Cortex A8 with 256 MB RAM.
 I guess that is a low machine.
 If you get to even lower hardware than both browsers feel slugish.

  Let's not start a war here... I don't want to be rude, but please keep
  such
  personal opinions out of this discussion.

 If you only choose software on the base of how much ram they use on
 ancient hardware then you will definitely fail in delivering a good user
 experience. Personal opinions matter a lot if they are supported by good
 arguments.
 And no I don't want to start a war here. I just want to discuss the
 advantages and disadvantages of both browsers.


  Google is dropping H264 support:
  http://blog.chromium.org/2011/01/html-video-codec-support-in-chrome.html

 Google Chrome != Chromium

  Firefox might do that in the future also, but it costs memory to
  sandbox each browser tab. And I believe Chromium cheats: when
  available memory gets too low, tabs begin sharing the same process so
  it's a bit harder to know what's really going on.

 At least from the user perspective you have still the advantage that one
 tab cannot crash the whole browser.

  While I'm not a Google-hater, I think it's very important for the free
  web that Mozilla continues to exist. Since Mozilla is a bit more open
  than Chromium and multiple steps more open than Android, I think open
  source fans should consider supporting Firefox if the features are
  nearly equal, which in my opinion they are. This is why I hope Firefox
  continues to remain the Ubuntu default browser. Since Lubuntu has
  different constraints in choosing default apps, I'll let Julien and
  the Lubuntu devs make their own evaluation. Both browsers are fully
  supported in Ubuntu (Canonical is looking to hire someone who can help
  maintain Chromium).

 I really don't think that if Lubuntu would ship Chromium instead of
 Firefox it will hurt Mozilla soo much that they have to fear their
 existens.
 And to be clear here, if we would to have choose a non free vs. a free
 software then I would also argue its definitely better to promote the
 free software. But in our case we have to made a choice between two free
 software products.



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com

 Guys,

 I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB
 usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on?
 I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something)
 and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are
 showing the same memory usage, LXTask add *100MB* to that.
 Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two
 tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB.

 Any idea?


I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread Benny Hult
Please use command 'free -m' to see RAM usage.
The thing that interests you most is buffers/cache and
used.Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset kirjoitti 8.11.2011 14:58:
2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com

Guys,

I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows
+100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on?
I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing
something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP)
and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add 100MB to that.
Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with
two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB.

Any idea?


I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread Chris
Aloha Benny,

The command you are using isn't very accurate to only
chromium-browser/firefox. You'd need to run it twice (before and during the
test) to get a number on what chromium or ff is using.
Therefor using a method the pulls in these numbers automatically by process
id's or similar.

@Walter:

That kill -n command only kills the different processes or tabs in chromium
(haven't tested it on ff yet), but not the window itself. Maybe something
like killall chromium-browser will work, but we'd need to figure out if
that is necessary?

With metta, Chris

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 16:02, Benny Hult hul...@gmail.com wrote:

 Please use command 'free -m' to see RAM usage.
 The thing that interests you most is buffers/cache and
 used.Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset kirjoitti 8.11.2011 14:58:
 2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com

 Guys,

 I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows
 +100MB usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on?
 I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing
 something) and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP)
 and Conky are showing the same memory usage, LXTask add 100MB to that.
 Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with
 two tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB.

 Any idea?


 I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
It's true that I have both Ubuntu 11.04 (which I'll get rid of soon) and
Lubuntu 11.04 installed but just to be extra clear, I'm just using Lubuntu
11.04 as I'm writing this. I have LXTask (installed by default) and I have
installed recently System Monitor too.
The figures are not the same.

If some of you think conky is not accurate then let's ignore it but still,
I'm having two different readings.

Anyway, lovinglinux, an add-on developer for Firefox and Ubuntu Forum
Moderator has suggested to use about:memory.

The test that I'm willing to do is on another PC (P4 with 256MB RAM) and it
has fresh new Lubuntu 11.10 installed.

Thanks!

P.S.
Jean-Pierre
I don't think Dual-Booting Ubuntu and Lubuntu has anything to do with that
extra 100MB IMHO. Each on different partition and each has its own files,
etc.

On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:57 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
jpx...@gmail.comwrote:

 2011/11/8 amjjawad HOOHAA amjja...@gmail.com

 Guys,

 I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB
 usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on?
 I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something)
 and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are
 showing the same memory usage, LXTask add *100MB* to that.
 Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two
 tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB.

 Any idea?


 I have similar issue when lubuntu is installed alongside with ubuntu :/

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the
machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3  4 and 256
to 512 ram.

Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed...
readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :)
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread

On 11/8/11 9:43 AM, Chris wrote:
That kill -n command only kills the different processes or tabs in 
chromium (haven't tested it on ff yet), but not the window itself. 
Maybe something like killall chromium-browser will work, but we'd need 
to figure out if that is necessary?
Worked for me! Of course, this is relevant assuming that script idea I 
had would work (re: testing opening speed).


wxl/walter

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread

On 11/8/11 2:26 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset wrote:
Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop 
installed... readings of both monitors are different, that's what i 
was telling you :)
...which confirms my suspicion that Ubuntu + lubuntu-desktop even with 
the other KDE/Gnome/XFCE packages removed, is still not Lubuntu. I found 
processor usage to be completely different between a native install and 
this roundabout solution.


wxl/walter

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA

 I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the
 machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3  4 and 256
 to 512 ram.


My machine is P4 @3GHz - 1M Cache. RAM is 512MB which can be dropped to
256MB.
One browser will be running at one time and reading will be written down.
Then the other browser will be running and same scenario applies.
Then, we compare between the readings.

With newer machines, users shouldn't notice any difference. With old
machine, I think it might be some differences. Only test will tell :)

I think my machine will be a good match for such test. It's a desktop. By
the way, the HDD is IDE so it's typical old :)

Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed...
 readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :)


If you check ALL my posts on Ubuntu Forum, you'll find out that I always
keep telling the users that installing lubuntu-desktop is NOT like
installing Lubuntu itself from LiveCD or LiveUSB.

*I see that Walter agrees with me* :)

On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 2:26 AM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
jpx...@gmail.comwrote:

 I don't know if this is correct, but I'm a little concerned for if the
 machines will support the test? We're talking about Pentium 3  4 and 256
 to 512 ram.

 Ps: Ali, on my new machine i have ubuntu with lubuntu-desktop installed...
 readings of both monitors are different, that's what i was telling you :)



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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-08 Thread

On 11/08/2011 01:39 PM, amjjawad HOOHAA wrote:
If some of you think conky is not accurate then let's ignore it but 
still, I'm having two different readings.
As I understand it the top object in conky should be just like the 
command top. My experience says it's way off.
Anyway, lovinglinux, an add-on developer for Firefox and Ubuntu Forum 
Moderator has suggested to use about:memory.
This works in both applications. In Firefox, the vsize and resident 
measurements track well with VM-Size and RSS in lxtask.


In Chromium, it redirects to chrome://memory-redirect/ and will even 
list other browsers. While this would be a boon for testing, as it 
wouldn't require another program to view its memory usage, it seems to 
be slightly off (~2-4MB low) in terms of reporting resident usage of 
Firefox. chrome://memory-redirect/


Regarding itself, I'm not too shocked it's off due to the fact that the 
memory used to report the memory isn't included. However, even though it 
breaks down the various processes, it seems to grossly under-report. For 
the main chromium-browser process (Browser in about:memory) it's off 
by about 20MB;  the secondary one (Sandbox Helper) about 7MB; the 
chromium-browse process (Tab) about 17MB; and the chromium-browser 
-type=zygote process (Zygote) about 7MB. chrome://memory-redirect/


So in the end, it's not reliable. And because we can't use tools inside 
BOTH browsers to check memory usage, I suggest we forget about using 
about:memory. chrome://memory-redirect/


wxl/walter
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-07 Thread amjjawad HOOHAA
Guys,

I was wondering if someone has noticed that LXTask actually shows +100MB
usage more than System Monitor and Conky so what is going on?
I have System Monitor installed on Lubutnu 11.04 (was testing something)
and Conky as well. While each of System Monitor (GNOME APP) and Conky are
showing the same memory usage, LXTask add *100MB* to that.
Example: System Monitor + Conky shows 287MB while Firefox Loaded with two
tabs. On the other hand, LXTask shows 387MB.

Any idea?

Thanks!

On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 5:21 AM, ∅ maps.backw...@gmail.com wrote:

 I like the idea of a script.. at least for most of it. The one bugaboo
 will be doing start up and shut down tests. Maybe we could use an
 appropriate signal? I'm not sure which one would be used to cleanly
 shutdown the program, but, for example, with SIGTERM we could do:

 kill -n 15 $(pidof firefox)
 kill -n 15 $(pidof chromium-browse)

 We need to know what systems these are being run on.

 Therefore:
 uname -srov
 lsb_release -a
 cat /proc/cpuinfo
 cat /proc/meminfo

 We need to use new/fresh profiles.

 So:
 firefox -CreateProfile foo  firefox -P foo space separated list of URLs
 to be opened in tabs
 chromium-browser --user-data-dir=foo space separated list of URLs to be
 opened in tabs

 One problem with this is that Chromium defaults to loading a choice of
 search engines.. so it's not technically started up.

 It IS important we use as many tabs as reasonable. There tends to be a bit
 of diversion in performance between browsers depending on the number of
 tabs opened.

 As for getting resource usage, I'm thinking that a good solution would be
 to use proc. Rather than try to follow a moving target (e.g. lxtask),
 something more static might be useful:
 cat /proc/$(pidof firefox)
 cat /proc/$(pidof chromium-browse)

 wxl/walter


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Glenn de Groot

Epihany is pretty good since 3.0, very stable.Midori became pretty much an 
Elementary browser and looks a little odd now, but Epiphany is well integrated, 
it looks like a cute mini Firefox.I believe dependencies are like 
Midori.Epiphany used to be not as good as Midori but the GNOME-devs worked real 
hard, and it shows.With Epiphany we are 100% sure we have GTK3 and there are 
more developers then Midori has.
If you try, don´t install epiphany but epiphany-browser, because epiphany is a 
game. :P
-Glenn

Date: Sat, 5 Nov 2011 19:57:02 -0200
From: gabrielper...@gmail.com
To: amjja...@gmail.com
CC: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?


Lubuntu 12.04 will be GTK3, and Chromium will still be GTK2. So, to the next 
version, Chromium will be heavyweight. I think most of the people agree that 
Midori isn't really an option, and I never tested Arora to give my opinion 
about this one.
.In a way or another, I believe that the best option for now if Firefox.
Gabriel Salles

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Jonathan Marsden
On 11/05/2011 05:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote:

 So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if
 the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.


Tom's Hardware regularly benchmarks browsers, but sadly only under
Windows and OS X.  The relevant page (Memory Efficiency) for a recent
test is at:

  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-14.html

If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu
on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium.

Does anyone on the list have the experience, willingness and time to run
some documented and repeatable benchmarks of Chromium and FF7 under
Lubuntu in low RAM machines for us?

Jonathan

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Chris
Are those benchmarks from Tom's Hardware documented at all? Maybe we could
rebuild those benchmarks for linux? When they are run on a low-spec
machine then the results should be the same on other machines. User tests
should be done to verify the results aren't just laboratory results.

I might be interested to builds those benchmarks systems, but would need
help with making them.

With metta, Chris
On Nov 6, 2011 8:45 AM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fm wrote:

 On 11/05/2011 05:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote:

  So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if
  the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.


 Tom's Hardware regularly benchmarks browsers, but sadly only under
 Windows and OS X.  The relevant page (Memory Efficiency) for a recent
 test is at:

  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-14.html

 If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu
 on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium.

 Does anyone on the list have the experience, willingness and time to run
 some documented and repeatable benchmarks of Chromium and FF7 under
 Lubuntu in low RAM machines for us?

 Jonathan

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Ali Linx
I have a P4 PC with 512MB RAM but I can drop that to 256.
I'm ready for such tests ;)

Also, I think it's important to ask the users to vote for that, not only
us. I can start a thread on Ubuntu Forum but I need to hear first from
Julien and others about that.


On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Jonathan Marsden jmars...@fastmail.fmwrote:

 On 11/05/2011 05:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote:

  So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if
  the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.


 Tom's Hardware regularly benchmarks browsers, but sadly only under
 Windows and OS X.  The relevant page (Memory Efficiency) for a recent
 test is at:

  http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/firefox-7-web-browser,3037-14.html

 If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu
 on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium.

 Does anyone on the list have the experience, willingness and time to run
 some documented and repeatable benchmarks of Chromium and FF7 under
 Lubuntu in low RAM machines for us?

 Jonathan

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Ali Linx

 I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another
 browser. But, this is my opinion :
 - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong
 upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a
 system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting
 Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage
 bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...).
 - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's
 always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it
 shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the
 Web which explain it).
 - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main
 target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine.

 So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the
 benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.

 Regards,
 Julien Lavergne


I DO AGREE with each and every word, period :)


On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Hi,

 I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another
 browser. But, this is my opinion :
 - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong
 upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a
 system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting
 Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage
 bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...).
 - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's
 always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it
 shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the
 Web which explain it).
 - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main
 target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine.

 So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the
 benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.

 Regards,
 Julien Lavergne

 On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:

  I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
  in 12.04.
  I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
 worth
  looking into.
 
  Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
  trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
  I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
  some benchmarks in the near future.
  However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
  having several tabs open (more than 3).
 
  Other reasons to switch:
  GTK3
  Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
  include as default)
 
  What do you guys think?


 --
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread ohiomoto
I also agree.  Both browsers are widely accepted work equally well for general use.  I think the question should be a) do we want to pick one and stick with it for the sake of consistency or b) always choose the lightest of the two?Tim-- Sent from my HP TouchPadOn Nov 5, 2011 9:07 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: Hi,

I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another browser. But, this is my opinion :
- We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...).
- Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which explain it).
- Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine.

So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
"A. Andjelkovic" andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth
 looking into.
 
 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).
 
 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)
 
 What do you guys think?


-- 
Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Julien Lavergne
Le 11/06/2011 09:24 AM, Ali Linx a écrit :

 Also, I think it's important to ask the users to vote for that, not
 only us. I can start a thread on Ubuntu Forum but I need to hear first
 from Julien and others about that.
Oh please don't, I imagine the mess and trolls for this tread :)
And also, it's not only a question of popularity, we need to consider
other aspects.

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Ali Linx

 @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks?
 I'm saying it so we can compare our results :)



Whatever in your mind, let me know and I'll be more than glad to do it :)
Don't have specific ideas at the time being. I'm willing to open many tabs
and monitor that. Don't have special tools to do such job.


On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
jpx...@gmail.comwrote:

 Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany
 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0.
 Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail:

 Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU
 Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU
 Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU
 Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU

 I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm missing?
 (i've only looked at the processes called chromium-browser)

 The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less
 dependencies).

 I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine...

 @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks?
 I'm saying it so we can compare our results :)

 --
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Ali Linx

 Oh please don't, I imagine the mess and trolls for this tread :)
 And also, it's not only a question of popularity, we need to consider
 other aspects.


Yes, I realized it could be a bad idea for now. Let's first decide, we as a
team then we can go public.

So, I just sent to Jean-Pierre. Any thing specific in your mind to test and
compare these two browser? I have a P4 and can drop my RAM to 256MB (it
shows 242MB actually on the Task Manager).

Let me know :)


On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 7:40 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Le 11/06/2011 09:24 AM, Ali Linx a écrit :
 
  Also, I think it's important to ask the users to vote for that, not
  only us. I can start a thread on Ubuntu Forum but I need to hear first
  from Julien and others about that.
 Oh please don't, I imagine the mess and trolls for this tread :)
 And also, it's not only a question of popularity, we need to consider
 other aspects.

 Regards,
 Julien Lavergne




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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Julien Lavergne
Le 11/06/2011 08:45 AM, Jonathan Marsden a écrit :
 If (and this is a big IF) these results are similar to those in Lubuntu
 on low-RAM machines, it might indeed be time to rethink use of Chromium.
Yes, it missed 2 points :
- memory management on Linux (we can't rely on Windows one to do proper
comparison on Linux)
- memory usage on a limited device

At least, it shows that Firefox is probably much better than when we
done the switch to Chromium.

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Julien Lavergne
Thanks for the tests. You can also use about:memory of Chromium, to have
a second source of information.

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

Le 11/06/2011 04:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset a écrit :
 Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany
 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0.
 Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail:

 Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU
 Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU
 Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU
 Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU

 I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm
 missing? (i've only looked at the processes called chromium-browser)

 The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less
 dependencies).

 I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine...

 @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your
 benchmarks? I'm saying it so we can compare our results :)

 -- 
 JpXsat

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread A. Andjelkovic
Just finished some testing using:

Chromium 15.0.874.102
Firefox 7.0.1

No extensions, no tab history (tabs are clean).

1 tab (logged into gmail)
chromium-browser: 50.1 + 24.7 + 9.1 = 83.9 MB
firefox: 97.2 MB

2 tabs (logged into gmail, ubuntuforums.org)
chromium-browser: 54.5 + 24.7 + 9.1 = 88.3 MB
firefox: 97.4 MB

Summary:
Not only does Chromium start slightly faster, it still has lower memory
usage with few tabs running. Firefox has improved A LOT however, we should
keep our eyes open in the future.
I don't know how much the gtk2 vs gtk3 issue affects us, but I suppose we
should aim at only using gtk3 apps?

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Thanks for the tests. You can also use about:memory of Chromium, to have
 a second source of information.

 Regards,
 Julien Lavergne

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread PCMan
Thank you for your test.
I, however, have some doubt about the chromium test.
Since midori, epiphany, and chromium all uses webkit, what makes so many
differences?
The most memory-demanding parts should be webkit and the graphics.
I don't believe that the remaining parts can cause so much impact.
A minimalist webkit browser with few features, midori, uses three times of
memory required by chromium, a complicated and feature-rich webkit browser.
Is that possible? I don't think so, and chromium even loads gtk2 as well.
So the result is really questions. Maybe chromium has some hidden resource
usage not covered by the test?

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Just to get an idea, i've installed and run on my new laptop Epiphany
 3.0.4, Firefox 7.0.1, Chromium 14.0.835, Midori 0.4.0.
 Here's what i get with two facebook tabs + gmail:

 Firefox: 268,7MB ram | 0% CPU
 Epiphany: 261,3MB ram | 0-1% CPU
 Midori: 225,6MB ram | 0-2% CPU
 Chromium: 69+19,8+6,1MB ram (94,9) | 0,0,0% CPU

 I'm impress with chromium... maybe there's another process i'm missing?
 (i've only looked at the processes called chromium-browser)

 The faster to open is from far Midori (And the one that has less
 dependencies).

 I'll try later those four on my Pentium 3 machine...

 @ALI, is there a specific way that you're gonna make your benchmarks?
 I'm saying it so we can compare our results :)

 --
 JpXsat


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Julien Lavergne
Le 11/06/2011 05:52 PM, PCMan a écrit :
 Since midori, epiphany, and chromium all uses webkit, what makes so
 many differences?
As far as I know, Chromium uses a patched webkit, that's probably why
the tests could be different between midori, epiphany and chromium.

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
Proposal for browser benchmarks:

- First of all, run the browsers without any add-on
- Take starts time
- Watch lxtask for memory usage  cpu. Inside Chromium about:memory shows
the memory used by each browser running too. Htop?
- Watch the general behaviour
- Sites: youtube, gmail, google, facebook, ubuntu forums (each alone, by
groups of two, three, four and finally five - I don't think that old
machines could support easily more than 5 tabs opened!)

Let me know if this is enough, what else should be added or if i'm just
talking nonsenses here :P

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Yorvyk
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:29:10 -0300
Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset jpx...@gmail.com wrote:

 Proposal for browser benchmarks:
 
 - First of all, run the browsers without any add-on
 - Take starts time
 - Watch lxtask for memory usage  cpu. Inside Chromium about:memory shows
 the memory used by each browser running too. Htop?
 - Watch the general behaviour
 - Sites: youtube, gmail, google, facebook, ubuntu forums (each alone, by
 groups of two, three, four and finally five - I don't think that old
 machines could support easily more than 5 tabs opened!)
 
 Let me know if this is enough, what else should be added or if i'm just
 talking nonsenses here :P
 
Amount of physical RAM

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Gabriel Salles
*Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test?*


To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot, open
the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of CPU
and RAM the *whole system* are using.
Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox.

This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the
final version of 11.10.


Gabriel Salles
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Ali Linx
Just a question.
Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll go
for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures from
there?

I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and
then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are
up-to-date then start some tests.
We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc?

Thanks!

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles gabrielper...@gmail.comwrote:

 *Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test?*


 To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot, open
 the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of CPU
 and RAM the *whole system* are using.
 Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox.

 This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the
 final version of 11.10.


 Gabriel Salles

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Chris
I was suggesting some kind of script, which could write the results in a
log file. That way all the results will be the same on all machines and
are objective. I will need some help in creating that script probably, but
I'll be on IRC tomorrow and see what I can get bunged together.

With metta, Chris

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 19:44, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote:

 Just a question.
 Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll go
 for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures from
 there?

 I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and
 then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are
 up-to-date then start some tests.
 We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc?

 Thanks!

 On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles 
 gabrielper...@gmail.comwrote:

 *Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the test?
 *


 To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot,
 open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of
 CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using.
 Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox.

 This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the
 final version of 11.10.


 Gabriel Salles

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Jeremy Bicha
Make sure you are doing your tests with a clean browser profile. An
easy, safe way to do that is to create a new user and login to the new
account.

Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Yorvyk
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 20:51:02 -0400
Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another 
 browser. But, this is my opinion :
 - We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong 
 upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a 
 system, and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting 
 Midori for example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage 
 bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...).
 - Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's 
 always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it 
 shares memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the 
 Web which explain it).
 - Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main 
 target for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine.
 
 So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the 
 benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.
 

Another thing to consider, is this vacancy at Canonical for a WebKit/Chromium 
Software Engineer.

https://tbe.taleo.net/NA3/ats/careers/requisition.jsp?org=CANONICALcws=1rid=376

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Yorvyk
On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:02:45 -0500
Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

 Make sure you are doing your tests with a clean browser profile. An
 easy, safe way to do that is to create a new user and login to the new
 account.
 
Also need to ensure everybody is using the same, and latest, versions of the 
browsers.

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Chris
Chromium-browser automatically checks for the latest version AFAIK. And the
script should be able to retrieve the latest version from the respective
vendor sites. If the installed version (also callable from the system)
doesn't match the latest version, then the test will fail.

With metta, Chris

On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 20:41, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.com wrote:

 On Sun, 6 Nov 2011 14:02:45 -0500
 Jeremy Bicha jbi...@ubuntu.com wrote:

  Make sure you are doing your tests with a clean browser profile. An
  easy, safe way to do that is to create a new user and login to the new
  account.
 
 Also need to ensure everybody is using the same, and latest, versions of
 the browsers.

 --
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread PCMan
If you can create such a script, it helps a lot in other areas, too.
We can use it to do benchmark for other components of lubuntu as well.


On Mon, Nov 7, 2011 at 2:55 AM, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote:

 I was suggesting some kind of script, which could write the results in a
 log file. That way all the results will be the same on all machines and
 are objective. I will need some help in creating that script probably, but
 I'll be on IRC tomorrow and see what I can get bunged together.

 With metta, Chris


 On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 19:44, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote:

 Just a question.
 Are we going to use some kind of tools/apps to do these tests? or we'll
 go for the manual approach? I mean just open LXTask and take the figures
 from there?

 I'm going to do a fresh install for Lubuntu 11.10, run apt-get update and
 then apt-get upgrade, install Firefox and make sure both browsers are
 up-to-date then start some tests.
 We need to use the same tool/app for that. LXTask, Terminal, etc?

 Thanks!

 On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 10:07 PM, Gabriel Salles 
 gabrielper...@gmail.comwrote:

 *Maybe chromium has some hidden resource usage not covered by the
 test?*


 To avoid this kind of doubt, I think it is better to make a new boot,
 open the Chromium Browser (with tabs and common pages), and see how much of
 CPU and RAM the *whole system* are using.
 Then you reboot and do the same thing with Firefox.

 This would be better with the alpha version of 12.04, and not with the
 final version of 11.10.


 Gabriel Salles

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 amjjawad*
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 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki 
 Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My
 Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum 
 Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822

 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by
 sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It
 Simple and Short** ~ *


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread Jeremy Bicha
On 6 November 2011 14:45, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Chromium-browser automatically checks for the latest version AFAIK. And the
 script should be able to retrieve the latest version from the respective
 vendor sites. If the installed version (also callable from the system)
 doesn't match the latest version, then the test will fail.
 With metta, Chris

No, the Ubuntu Firefox and Chromium packages don't use the built-in
update checker.

Jeremy

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-06 Thread
I like the idea of a script.. at least for most of it. The one bugaboo 
will be doing start up and shut down tests. Maybe we could use an 
appropriate signal? I'm not sure which one would be used to cleanly 
shutdown the program, but, for example, with SIGTERM we could do:


kill -n 15 $(pidof firefox)
kill -n 15 $(pidof chromium-browse)

We need to know what systems these are being run on.

Therefore:
uname -srov
lsb_release -a
cat /proc/cpuinfo
cat /proc/meminfo

We need to use new/fresh profiles.

So:
firefox -CreateProfile foo  firefox -P foo space separated list of 
URLs to be opened in tabs
chromium-browser --user-data-dir=foo space separated list of URLs to be 
opened in tabs


One problem with this is that Chromium defaults to loading a choice of 
search engines.. so it's not technically started up.


It IS important we use as many tabs as reasonable. There tends to be a 
bit of diversion in performance between browsers depending on the number 
of tabs opened.


As for getting resource usage, I'm thinking that a good solution would 
be to use proc. Rather than try to follow a moving target (e.g. lxtask), 
something more static might be useful:

cat /proc/$(pidof firefox)
cat /proc/$(pidof chromium-browse)

wxl/walter

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Stefano
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth
 looking into.
 
 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).
 
 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)
 
 What do you guys think?

+1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
-- 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread James Gifford
I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the
underpowered netbook user.

In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton
(read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
James Gifford



On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote:
 On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
 A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth
 looking into.

 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).

 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)

 What do you guys think?

 +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
 --
 Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Hùng Trần
Hi,

I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on
my 256MB RAM laptop.

Regards,
TRẦN Duy Hùng
http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/


On 5 November 2011 22:11, James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com wrote:

 I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the
 underpowered netbook user.

 In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton
 (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better.

 Just my two cents.

 Cheers,
 James Gifford



 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote:
  On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
  A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with
 Firefox
  in 12.04.
  I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
 worth
  looking into.
 
  Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
  trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
  I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely
 do
  some benchmarks in the near future.
  However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
  having several tabs open (more than 3).
 
  Other reasons to switch:
  GTK3
  Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
  include as default)
 
  What do you guys think?
 
  +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
  --
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
If it's a vote... i would keep chromium. I always keep both browsers 
just in case, but my benchmarks on my old pentium 3 can't tell any 
real difference with just one tab opened. Start time, firefox seems a 
little bit slower to start.


I'll run some benchmarks in the next days in the following machine: 
1000mhz, 512ram (Pentium3).


Still, you should take a look at the dependencies too... my guess is 
that we should keep chromium in this case (i believe that firefox 
installs some nautilus stuff)


Ps: when it will be ready we could try Midori (it's the faster browser 
i can try on my old machine!). But really... when it will be *ready* to 
use!!


El 05-11-2011 11:11, James Gifford escribió:

I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the
underpowered netbook user.

In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton
(read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better.

Just my two cents.

Cheers,
James Gifford



On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it  wrote:

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
A. Andjelkovicandjelko...@gmail.com  wrote:


I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
in 12.04.
I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth
looking into.

Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
some benchmarks in the near future.
However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
having several tabs open (more than 3).

Other reasons to switch:
GTK3
Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
include as default)

What do you guys think?

+1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
--
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread James Gifford
In fact, if we were really looking for a lightweight browser, might I
suggest Midori?[1] It's a Webkit based browser, very lightweight on
CPU/RAM.

Cheers,
James Gifford

[1] https://launchpad.net/midori


On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi,

 I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on my
 256MB RAM laptop.

 Regards,
 TRẦN Duy Hùng
 http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/


 On 5 November 2011 22:11, James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com wrote:

 I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the
 underpowered netbook user.

 In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton
 (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better.

 Just my two cents.

 Cheers,
 James Gifford



 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it wrote:
  On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
  A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with
  Firefox
  in 12.04.
  I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
  worth
  looking into.
 
  Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
  trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
  I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely
  do
  some benchmarks in the near future.
  However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
  having several tabs open (more than 3).
 
  Other reasons to switch:
  GTK3
  Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
  include as default)
 
  What do you guys think?
 
  +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
  --
  Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it
 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread James Gifford
Define ready to use - Midori might not have hit 1.0, but in the days
where I come back from a walk around the block and Chromium's bumped
another version number, that's hardly a way to measure things.

If it came to a vote, I'd keep Chromium, it's stable, it works, and
it's got a large upstream which means we don't have to worry a *lot*
about security bugs.
Cheers,
James Gifford



On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 12:22 PM, Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
jpx...@gmail.com wrote:
 If it's a vote... i would keep chromium. I always keep both browsers just
 in case, but my benchmarks on my old pentium 3 can't tell any real
 difference with just one tab opened. Start time, firefox seems a little bit
 slower to start.

 I'll run some benchmarks in the next days in the following machine:
 1000mhz, 512ram (Pentium3).

 Still, you should take a look at the dependencies too... my guess is that we
 should keep chromium in this case (i believe that firefox installs some
 nautilus stuff)

 Ps: when it will be ready we could try Midori (it's the faster browser i
 can try on my old machine!). But really... when it will be *ready* to use!!

 El 05-11-2011 11:11, James Gifford escribió:

 I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the
 underpowered netbook user.

 In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton
 (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better.

 Just my two cents.

 Cheers,
 James Gifford



 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it  wrote:

 On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
 A. Andjelkovicandjelko...@gmail.com  wrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with
 Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
 worth
 looking into.

 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely
 do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).

 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)

 What do you guys think?

 +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
 --
 Stefanoeco.st...@fastwebnet.it

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
In fact Midori is lighweight... but it crash just too often. That's what i
mean by ready to use

2011/11/5 James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com

 In fact, if we were really looking for a lightweight browser, might I
 suggest Midori?[1] It's a Webkit based browser, very lightweight on
 CPU/RAM.

 Cheers,
 James Gifford

 [1] https://launchpad.net/midori


 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 11:18 AM, Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com
 wrote:
  Hi,
 
  I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless
 on my
  256MB RAM laptop.
 
  Regards,
  TRẦN Duy Hùng
  http://www.nguyentieuhau.com/
 
 
  On 5 November 2011 22:11, James Gifford ja...@jamesrgifford.com wrote:
 
  I'm one of the target audiences for Lubuntu, mainly that of the
  underpowered netbook user.
 
  In my experience, Chromium is faster, until you start having a ton
  (read: 4-10) tabs open. At that point, Firefox starts to be better.
 
  Just my two cents.
 
  Cheers,
  James Gifford
 
 
 
  On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 10:51 AM, Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it
 wrote:
   On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
   A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:
  
   I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with
   Firefox
   in 12.04.
   I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
   worth
   looking into.
  
   Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
   trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
   I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will
 definitely
   do
   some benchmarks in the near future.
   However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
   having several tabs open (more than 3).
  
   Other reasons to switch:
   GTK3
   Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
   include as default)
  
   What do you guys think?
  
   +1, i love firefox, chromium is too much for dummies ;-)
   --
   Stefano eco.st...@fastwebnet.it
  
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-- 
jpxsat

Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset
Club de Campo y Hostal Los Pequenes http://www.lospequenes.cl
Departamento de Informática y Publicidad
Celular: +56 9 8-548.38.00 // Fono: +56 72 66.81.42

Je@n-Pie®®e Vidal Piesset http://www.facebook.com/jpxsat
Fono: +56 72 66.81.42 // Celular 09 8-548.38.00

 jpxsat http://lahistoriadeuncompaq1700.blogspot.com/ //  Linux user
#522.597 //  Ubuntu user #29.157
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna)

  
  
Midori isn't a REAL optin right now, because of handling
certificates and such things. A better option should be Arora. But
Alexander is right. Firefox 7 has improved a lot with beta 7, and 8
is more promising. But I don't give any point until benchmark is
provided.

-- 
  
  
  

  



  

  
  

  

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Yorvyk
On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 22:18:12 +0700
Hùng Trần nguyentieu...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,
 
 I prefer Chromium, it's good on old machine. Firefox is almost useless on
 my 256MB RAM laptop.
 
I've also found Chromium to be better than Firefox when there is less than 512 
MiB of RAM.  I haven't really checked memory/CPU usage but Chromium is more 
responsive with 6-8 tabs open.  With less than 256 MiB of RAM Firefox really 
seems to struggle with only 3-4 tabs open.  This isn't just a case of a PIII 
CPU struggling either.  I have a 'brand new', never out of it's box, 2003 
vintage, Dell 4600 2.4Mhz P4 with 256 MiB of RAM, AGP8 video and Firefox is 
slow in this as well.

As much as I like Firefox I think Chromium is the way to go for Lubuntu.



-- 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Ali Linx
Keep Chromium. Users, as always, can install Firefox whenever they want.

Firefox is my no.1 browser but I must have them both. I run both of them at
the same time (FF and Chromium).
Let's keep in mind that Chromium is lighter than Firefox. After all,
Lubuntu is a lightweight distribution so please keep it as it's :)



On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:47 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
 worth looking into.

 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).

 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)

 What do you guys think?

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-- 
Best Regards,

*A.J
amjjawad*
Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega
Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755
My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki
Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My
Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum
Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822

*~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by
sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple
and Short** ~ *
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Chris
Ali,

It's been mentioned that the new FF7 is lightweight again, that's why it's
been brought up. Personally I don't like FF, so personally I'd vote
Chromium. But if with benchmarks/user tests it's proven that FF is the
better one, than we should consider switching.

With metta, Chris
On Nov 5, 2011 9:41 PM, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote:

 Keep Chromium. Users, as always, can install Firefox whenever they want.

 Firefox is my no.1 browser but I must have them both. I run both of them
 at the same time (FF and Chromium).
 Let's keep in mind that Chromium is lighter than Firefox. After all,
 Lubuntu is a lightweight distribution so please keep it as it's :)



 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:47 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
 worth looking into.

 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).

 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)

 What do you guys think?

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 --
 Best Regards,

 *A.J
 amjjawad*
 Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega 
 Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755
 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki 
 Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My
 Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum 
 Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822

 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by
 sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It
 Simple and Short** ~ *


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Ali Linx
I love them both so whatever you guys decide, I don't mind.
All what I care about is overall performance.

I've noticed FF started to be lighter than before. I also noticed it takes
so much from RAM with 3-4 opened tabs. Don't have time to test that for
now.

Again, whatever your choice will be, I'm ok because after all, I do need
them both installed :)


On Sun, Nov 6, 2011 at 12:54 AM, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ali,

 It's been mentioned that the new FF7 is lightweight again, that's why it's
 been brought up. Personally I don't like FF, so personally I'd vote
 Chromium. But if with benchmarks/user tests it's proven that FF is the
 better one, than we should consider switching.

 With metta, Chris
 On Nov 5, 2011 9:41 PM, Ali Linx amjja...@gmail.com wrote:

 Keep Chromium. Users, as always, can install Firefox whenever they want.

 Firefox is my no.1 browser but I must have them both. I run both of them
 at the same time (FF and Chromium).
 Let's keep in mind that Chromium is lighter than Firefox. After all,
 Lubuntu is a lightweight distribution so please keep it as it's :)



 On Sat, Nov 5, 2011 at 6:47 PM, A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.comwrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with
 Firefox in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is
 worth looking into.

 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely
 do some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).

 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)

 What do you guys think?

 ___
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 --
 Best Regards,

 *A.J
 amjjawad*
 Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega 
 Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755
 My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki 
 Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My
 Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum 
 Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822

 *~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by
 sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It
 Simple and Short** ~ *


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*A.J
amjjawad*
Lubuntu One Stop Thread (Mega
Thread)http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1844755
My Blog http://amjjawad.wordpress.com | My Wiki
Pagehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad| My
Launchpad https://launchpad.net/%7Eamjjawad | My Ubuntu Forum
Profilehttp://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=941822

*~ My Actions Speak Louder Than My Words || ** I walk by faith, not by
sight **|| Imagination is more important than Knowledge || **Keep It Simple
and Short** ~ *
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Gabriel Salles
Lubuntu 12.04 will be GTK3, and Chromium will still be GTK2. So, to the
next version, Chromium will be heavyweight. I think most of the people
agree that Midori isn't really an option, and I never tested Arora to give
my opinion about this one.
.
In a way or another, I believe that the best option for now if Firefox.

Gabriel Salles
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread 神癒礁湖 (Rafael Laguna)

  
  
Well, it's ont sure that Ubuntu istelf will remove all GTK2 packages
and libraries completely. Shuttleworth was clear on it at UDS,
because we're not going to be "cool and modern" but removing things
that are really useful just because they're GTK2.

I'm the first who want Mono and GTK2 away from Ubuntu (and GTK2 away
too from Lubuntu), but who knows...

-- 
  
  
  

  



  

  
  

  

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Jean-Pierre Vidal Piesset

Arora is QT based... so i don't think lubuntu will ever adopt it :(

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread Julien Lavergne
Hi,

I'm not very fan of a change unless we have a strong consensus for another 
browser. But, this is my opinion :
- We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong 
upstream and are well maintained. Browser is a very important part of a system, 
and we really don't have time to do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for 
example, means we have to do the maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, 
maybe some packaging ...).
- Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's 
always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares 
memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which 
explain it).
- Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target 
for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine.

So far, I don't see advantages to switch to Firefox. Of course, if the 
benchmarks show a real difference, I may reconsider my opinion.

Regards,
Julien Lavergne

On Sat, 5 Nov 2011 15:47:26 +0100
A. Andjelkovic andjelko...@gmail.com wrote:

 I wanted to bring up the discussion about replacing Chromium with Firefox
 in 12.04.
 I'm not sure if this was discussed on UDS, but in my opinion, this is worth
 looking into.
 
 Firefox has reduced it's memory usage dramatically, and I'm currently
 trying out Firefox 7 as a replacement.
 I do not have detailed memory benchmarks (yet!), but I will definitely do
 some benchmarks in the near future.
 However, I'm pretty sure Firefox has better (lower) memory usage when
 having several tabs open (more than 3).
 
 Other reasons to switch:
 GTK3
 Better desktop integration (Chromium themeing is limited and hard to
 include as default)
 
 What do you guys think?


-- 
Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] [12.04] Firefox instead of Chromium?

2011-11-05 Thread

On 11/5/11 5:51 PM, Julien Lavergne wrote:

- We should only consider Chromium or Firefox, because they have a strong 
upstream and are well maintained.
agreed. i wouldn't suggest anything else tho there are other, more 
lightweight, options.

Browser is a very important part of a system, and we really don't have time to 
do maintenance on it. Adopting Midori for example, means we have to do the 
maintenance on Ubuntu (triage bugs, testing, maybe some packaging ...).
if we really wanted to go lightweight, we'd do w3m or dillo or 
something. lubuntu is light, but not THAT light :)

- Benchmark are needed, because just saying it's light, doesn't mean it's 
always light. Also, the memory usage for Chromium is special, because it shares 
memory (there is an article from a dev of Chromium somewhere in the Web which 
explain it).
i have had better luck with chromium when resources are a limited. i've 
seen what appear to be memory leaks in firefox that they always claim is 
due to some plugin though other browsers don't have this same problem. 
chromium of course sandboxes each process/plugin, so this is usually not 
a session-wide issue if you will.


despite that, i'm a firefox user. for one, i've got a ppc machine 
(though i'm installing on a thinkpad now) which means that anything but 
chromium is the only option. secondly, there are some plugins i would 
really miss. i've tried a couple times to move away (especially after 
experiencing webkit which seems to work a heck of a lot better overall), 
but i keep coming back.


despite all this, the user has the option of changing whatever they want 
at any time. so then comes the question of the target audience..

- Finally, it needs to be light on old hardware. Remember, it's the main target 
for Lubuntu. So far, Chromium seems better on this type of machine.

to which i must say, exactly.

but yeah, we should benchmark it.

wxl/walter


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