Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread jon york

i agree with c david rigby, in that maybe we can have a barebone system, and 
instead of having installers in the install process, maybe have some meta 
packages in the repo's where a user can download the 'full multimedia desktop' 
or the 'professional office tools' 

Jon York



Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:11:37 +0100
From: andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com
To: gbiz...@gmail.com
CC: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
Slow)

I have a small script the guts the system of all the fluff I do not need. These 
days I use the minimal ISO and install from the repos what I need. So much 
better. My root partitions is currently 2Gb with the desktop + web browse + vlc 
+ transmission + pidgin + some plugins. Bliss 


On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:05 PM, Glen Bizeau gbiz...@gmail.com wrote:

I agree,



Keep it small and lean, and apt-get anything you need.



The one question I think needs to be answered is  Are we making a

distro for newbies?



If we are then you will need a bunch of standard default apps... If

not, which I think in my personal experience with Linux and LXDE, this

will probably only be attractive to the more experienced user, who

like myself ends up uninstalling all the crap that comes with Ubuntu

anywayI think it should be mean and lean and if you want

something, go fetch it.



Synaptic should be front and center though, is a launcher so it's easy

ti find. And maybe a desktop document on the default install

explaining about the distro and why it is what it is, and how to get

software.



my two-cents



Glen



On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Andrew

Woodheadandrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:

 This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard

 repos can be used to install apps if they are needed.

 If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a minimal

 install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed off the

 repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland

 efficient distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the

 system with the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully

 installable once the installation has completed but the initial base system

 should be slick and quick



 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.com

 wrote:



 On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:



 discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided



 Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between

 ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the

 other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to

 build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.



 I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the

 list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks

 where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the

 possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering

 bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the

 FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.



 The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable

 system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the

 real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or

 grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to

 install.



 More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have

 yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of

 bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system

 performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user

 could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice

 would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they

 mean for the final installed system.



 My $0.02.



 Cheers

 C David Rigby





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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread John Thng
hi all,

I think lubuntu should not meant for geeks only. It should appeal to the
mass just like ubuntu is for.
As for applications, we should not think too much about the disk space, as
disk space is not very critical less than cpu and ram nowadays, but it's
good to keep it below 2 GB after installation ... And before installation,
things are compressed into livecd, keep it under a livecd rather than
livedvd.

We should look at the memory requirements and cpu utilization more than disk
space.
This is what I saw as lightweight.

As for user friendly, normal users should not configure too much out of box.
It would make the distro unfriendly if the normal users have to configure
like geeks.

I know there are lots of geeks thoughts when designing the distro, but we
should look at the demography of people who will be using it, and which area
of people should we create the distro for, and also we should think more of
the mass, rather than ourselves, it's because we are more experience in
linux, does not mean a normal person who has no experience in linux can
think like us.

Regards
John Thng

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 7:05 PM, Glen Bizeau gbiz...@gmail.com wrote:

 I agree,

 Keep it small and lean, and apt-get anything you need.

 The one question I think needs to be answered is  Are we making a
 distro for newbies?

 If we are then you will need a bunch of standard default apps... If
 not, which I think in my personal experience with Linux and LXDE, this
 will probably only be attractive to the more experienced user, who
 like myself ends up uninstalling all the crap that comes with Ubuntu
 anywayI think it should be mean and lean and if you want
 something, go fetch it.

 Synaptic should be front and center though, is a launcher so it's easy
 ti find. And maybe a desktop document on the default install
 explaining about the distro and why it is what it is, and how to get
 software.

 my two-cents

 Glen

 On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:15 PM, Andrew
 Woodheadandrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:
  This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard
  repos can be used to install apps if they are needed.
  If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a
 minimal
  install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed off
 the
  repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland
  efficient distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating
 the
  system with the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are
 fully
  installable once the installation has completed but the initial base
 system
  should be slick and quick
 
  On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:
 
  discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided
 
  Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between
  ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the
  other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to
  build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.
 
  I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the
  list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks
  where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the
  possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering
  bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the
  FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.
 
  The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable
  system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the
  real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or
  grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to
  install.
 
  More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have
  yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of
  bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system
  performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user
  could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice
  would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they
  mean for the final installed system.
 
  My $0.02.
 
  Cheers
  C David Rigby
 
 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread jon york

Good point ed, 

we are forgetting our requirements, and getting head of ourselves.

so now that we are mostly agreed on being small and lightweight, what will be 
the minimum and recommended specs?

Jon York



Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:07:11 +0100
From: edwardahew...@googlemail.com
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy  Slow)

I believe its a bad idea having different versions of Lubuntu, having different 
meta packages of Lubuntu is not what lubutnu needs. Its all about lightweight 
distro. The Ubuntu guidelines requires the distro to have one build, 
lubuntu-desktop.


All we need to do is make sure that this single meta package is bundled with a 
few lightweight apps for the end user to require out of the box which works 
well with the LXDE environment.
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread Ed Hewitt
I would say LXDE is lighter than Xfce, the LXDE developers seem to think so.
I think 64mb Minimum is enough.

2009/6/30 Andrew Woodhead andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com

 http://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements

 May help to guide

 I'd say 300Mhz CPU + 192Mb RAM



 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, jon york jr_...@hotmail.com wrote:

  Good point ed,

 we are forgetting our requirements, and getting head of ourselves.

 so now that we are mostly agreed on being small and lightweight, what will
 be the minimum and recommended specs?

 Jon York



 --
 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:07:11 +0100
 From: edwardahew...@googlemail.com
 To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
 Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy 
 Slow)

 I believe its a bad idea having different versions of Lubuntu, having
 different meta packages of Lubuntu is not what lubutnu needs. Its all about
 lightweight distro. The Ubuntu guidelines requires the distro to have one
 build, lubuntu-desktop.

 All we need to do is make sure that this single meta package is bundled
 with a few lightweight apps for the end user to require out of the box which
 works well with the LXDE environment.

 --
 www.edhewitt.co.uk

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread Luther Goh Lu Feng
Hi everyone,

Good to see the sudden spike in mailing list activity. I definitely need time 
to follow the threads.

For those unaware, we have had 3 IRC meetings to discuss the goals and 
applications of Lubuntu. The logs are at 
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings. The objective of the meeting 
was to narrow down the list of applications, and also to decide the goals of 
Lubuntu I urge patience to go through the logs to understand what has 
transpired so far.

I believe the goals of Lubuntu that was decided during that meeting is
that Lubuntu will be a lightweight distro with appropriate
functionality and usability. (Yes, I know that functionality and
usability have subjective meaning).

The list of applications at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications are 
just a list of applications we will choose for inclusion. Generally, only one 
will be included from each application category.

At the meeting, members have decided to include Firefox,
OpenOffice.org, VLC I am not sure if there will be changes following the
discussion on the mailing list. Perhaps this can be discussed in the
next IRC meeting?



From: Ed Hewitt edwardahew...@googlemail.com
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:13:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy  Slow)

I would say LXDE is lighter than Xfce, the LXDE developers seem to think so. 
I think 64mb Minimum is enough.


2009/6/30 Andrew Woodhead andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com

http://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements

May help to guide

I'd say 300Mhz CPU + 192Mb RAM




On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, jon york jr_...@hotmail.com wrote:

Good point ed, 

we are forgetting our requirements, and getting head of ourselves.

so now that we are mostly agreed on being small and lightweight, what will 
be the minimum and recommended specs?

Jon York




Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:07:11 +0100
From: edwardahew...@googlemail.com
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net

Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy  Slow)

I believe its a bad idea having different versions of Lubuntu, having 
different meta packages of Lubuntu is not what lubutnu needs. Its all about 
lightweight distro. The Ubuntu guidelines requires the distro to have one 
build, lubuntu-desktop.

All we need to do is make sure that this single meta package is bundled with 
a few lightweight apps for the end user to require out of the box which 
works well with the LXDE environment.

-- 
www.edhewitt.co.uk


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread Glen Bizeau
Wow,

I just went through the list if apps, Thats a lot of stuff...

Personally, I think it should be lighter than this, but I guess thats
what I get for missing the IRC meeting :)

Will we have a chance to vote on these things? or do the IRC meetings
denote final say?

Glen

On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Luther Goh Lu Fengelf...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 Good to see the sudden spike in mailing list activity. I definitely need
 time to follow the threads.

 For those unaware, we have had 3 IRC meetings to discuss the goals and
 applications of Lubuntu. The logs are at
 https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings. The objective of the meeting
 was to narrow down the list of applications, and also to decide the goals of
 Lubuntu I urge patience to go through the logs to understand what has
 transpired so far.

 I believe the goals of Lubuntu that was decided during that meeting is that
 Lubuntu will be a lightweight distro with appropriate functionality and
 usability. (Yes, I know that functionality and usability have subjective
 meaning).

 The list of applications at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applications are
 just a list of applications we will choose for inclusion. Generally, only
 one will be included from each application category.

 At the meeting, members have decided to include Firefox, OpenOffice.org, VLC
 I am not sure if there will be changes following the discussion on the
 mailing list. Perhaps this can be discussed in the next IRC meeting?

 From: Ed Hewitt edwardahew...@googlemail.com
 To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
 Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:13:47 PM
 Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy 
 Slow)

 I would say LXDE is lighter than Xfce, the LXDE developers seem to think so.
 I think 64mb Minimum is enough.

 2009/6/30 Andrew Woodhead andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com

 http://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements

 May help to guide

 I'd say 300Mhz CPU + 192Mb RAM



 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, jon york jr_...@hotmail.com wrote:

 Good point ed,

 we are forgetting our requirements, and getting head of ourselves.

 so now that we are mostly agreed on being small and lightweight, what
 will be the minimum and recommended specs?

 Jon York



 
 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:07:11 +0100
 From: edwardahew...@googlemail.com
 To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
 Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy 
 Slow)

 I believe its a bad idea having different versions of Lubuntu, having
 different meta packages of Lubuntu is not what lubutnu needs. Its all about
 lightweight distro. The Ubuntu guidelines requires the distro to have one
 build, lubuntu-desktop.

 All we need to do is make sure that this single meta package is bundled
 with a few lightweight apps for the end user to require out of the box which
 works well with the LXDE environment.

 --
 www.edhewitt.co.uk

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-30 Thread Ed Hewitt
I too have the same opinion and in the same situation as Glen. I have missed
out on the meetings, since only being involved in Lubuntu since yesterday. I
have looked at the applications list and there is too many, Lubuntu could
end up too heavy. This is one of the reasons I sent my first email off in
the mailing lists.

2009/7/1 Glen Bizeau gbiz...@gmail.com

 Wow,

 I just went through the list if apps, Thats a lot of stuff...

 Personally, I think it should be lighter than this, but I guess thats
 what I get for missing the IRC meeting :)

 Will we have a chance to vote on these things? or do the IRC meetings
 denote final say?

 Glen

 On Wed, Jul 1, 2009 at 1:03 AM, Luther Goh Lu Fengelf...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Hi everyone,
 
  Good to see the sudden spike in mailing list activity. I definitely need
  time to follow the threads.
 
  For those unaware, we have had 3 IRC meetings to discuss the goals and
  applications of Lubuntu. The logs are at
  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/IRC%20Meetings. The objective of the
 meeting
  was to narrow down the list of applications, and also to decide the goals
 of
  Lubuntu I urge patience to go through the logs to understand what has
  transpired so far.
 
  I believe the goals of Lubuntu that was decided during that meeting is
 that
  Lubuntu will be a lightweight distro with appropriate functionality and
  usability. (Yes, I know that functionality and usability have subjective
  meaning).
 
  The list of applications at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu/Applicationsare
  just a list of applications we will choose for inclusion. Generally, only
  one will be included from each application category.
 
  At the meeting, members have decided to include Firefox, OpenOffice.org,
 VLC
  I am not sure if there will be changes following the discussion on the
  mailing list. Perhaps this can be discussed in the next IRC meeting?
 
  From: Ed Hewitt edwardahew...@googlemail.com
  To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
  Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 12:13:47 PM
  Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy 
  Slow)
 
  I would say LXDE is lighter than Xfce, the LXDE developers seem to think
 so.
  I think 64mb Minimum is enough.
 
  2009/6/30 Andrew Woodhead andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com
 
  http://wiki.xfce.org/minimum_requirements
 
  May help to guide
 
  I'd say 300Mhz CPU + 192Mb RAM
 
 
 
  On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 3:50 PM, jon york jr_...@hotmail.com wrote:
 
  Good point ed,
 
  we are forgetting our requirements, and getting head of ourselves.
 
  so now that we are mostly agreed on being small and lightweight, what
  will be the minimum and recommended specs?
 
  Jon York
 
 
 
  
  Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:07:11 +0100
  From: edwardahew...@googlemail.com
  To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
  Subject: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy 
  Slow)
 
  I believe its a bad idea having different versions of Lubuntu, having
  different meta packages of Lubuntu is not what lubutnu needs. Its all
 about
  lightweight distro. The Ubuntu guidelines requires the distro to have
 one
  build, lubuntu-desktop.
 
  All we need to do is make sure that this single meta package is bundled
  with a few lightweight apps for the end user to require out of the box
 which
  works well with the LXDE environment.
 
  --
  www.edhewitt.co.uk
 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread jon york

Hi guys, completely agree with all of this, but first i think is to determine 
what we want our market to be. Do we want to be out of the box, forget about 
needed to install something to make it usable (ie: flash, codecs) or do we 
want to be a bare minimum speedy OS. either way, i like both ideas, but we do 
need to determine what we wish to be and go for it. Il admit, i am ignorant of 
the rules or objectives we need to meet to be a ubuntu derivative, and we must 
adhere to that, But Mr. Ed Hewitt brings up some very valid points,

I have been selling linux based computers for years now, and I have a good idea 
of what people want either way.

Jon York



From: wiebelh...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 12:49:44 -0500
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
Slow)

Ed Hewitt makes some very good points , Something to look at would be the 
Fluxbuntu project the 7.10 Version was amazing because it was very very slim 
nothing except the essentials installed but it also retained the availability 
of all those other apps by using the official repositories. I don't think 
anyone has to worry about something missing because the people that would be 
drawn to Lubuntu would certinaly be savvy enough to fetch it for themselves.



What's good isn't always golden , I agree with the minilmist idea that Ed 
Hewitt proposed here.

Cheers!.

Dallas Wiebelhaus.





On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 12:40 PM, Ed Hewitt edwardahew...@googlemail.com 
wrote:


Hi,

I'm Ed Hewitt (chewit in IRC). I have just joined the Lubuntu team in 
Launchpad, I am very keen to give you help with the Lubuntu project. I have 
been using Xubuntu since 7.10 release, and over the years Xubuntu has been 
getting heavier and slower after each release. This has been down two things. 
First, the Ubuntu developers adding more applications and utilies to improve 
the usability of the operating system. Secondly, Xubuntu is just Ubuntu with 
Xfce 'bolted on'. No thought has gone into using as little gnome depencies as 
possible. These two points have made Xubuntu heavy and slow, and not a 
lightweight distro. It is very close to being as heavy as Ubuntu!




My worry with the Lubuntu project is that when it becomes an official Ubuntu 
distro, it will have loads of extra apps added which will make it slow and 
heavy like Xubuntu. It will be a waste your time creating a distro which went 
the same way as Xubuntu. I am writing this message to warn you that it could 
happen. I want to join the Lubuntu and help decide the best applications to add 
to the operating systems and ways to make it as light as possible.




I have looked at the Lubuntu application list and I am already concerned with 
the success of the project. It appears Lubuntu will have more applications 
installed than the Ubuntu install!

The best way I see Lubuntu being setup is to carefully follow the way Debian is 
created, since Debain is very lightweight. I believe it is best to use the 
Ubuntu minimal install with LXDE added on, then we add a carefully selection of 
applications. Such as:




Web browser - FirefoxEmail - ClawsChat - Pidgin, Xchat
Office - Abiword, Gnumeric, ePDFMedia - Totem, Rhythmbox (would like to use 
VLC, but it uses QT4)GIMP


Synaptic  Update Manager is a mustGnome network manager (need good network 
support, however it needs to start on boot up)
Some Xfce apps - Notifyd (very nice notification system), taskmanager (but 
could use lxde task), power manager


We want to keep the apps list small, basic apps which most people will use. 
Video editing, ftp clients and programming apps are not needed on the base 
install. If we add loads of apps, we will be a heavy distro. With Lubuntu its 
performance and lightweight first, sadly xubuntu forgot about that. 




Would like to hear what the whole team thinks and if I can be some help in the 
development of Lubuntu.

-- 
www.edhewitt.co.uk




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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread Dallas Wiebelhaus
Good eye there David!

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 5:15 PM, David Sugar david.su...@canonical.comwrote:

 Related to this question is what to do with what is currently the
 separate lxde blueprint in Launchpad:


 https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/mobile-karmic-lxde-ubuntu-desktop

 I would be happy to see about transferring it to the Lubuntu Team if the
 Lubuntu team does wish to formally take it over...

 In any case, yes, I also think the key is finding the right reasonable
 mix.

 Ed Hewitt wrote:
  I think we should go with Firefox. However, OpenOffice would solve the
  problem of having no presentation software if we went with Abiword 
  Gnumeric. We could use these tweaks to speed up OpenOffice. 
 
 http://lifehacker.com/software/optimization/speed-up-openoffice-270775.php
 
  By going small, we will achieve the objective of achieving a
  lightweight distro. However, I still think a good out of the box
  experience, as long as we keep it to a minimal. So by having a few basic
  utilities (such as synaptic), need a few must have apps (such as web
  browser, office apps, chat, media player). we can still achieve a user
  friend lightweight distro. Its all about getting the right balance.
 
  Maybe another Lubuntu IRC Meeting could be useful to discuss my points.
  It would be great to have an application list set in time for Karmic.
  Could be Lubuntu's first release
 
  --
  www.edhewitt.co.uk http://www.edhewitt.co.uk
 
 
  
 
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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread Dallas Wiebelhaus
Yep , but Debian LXDE does have the entire open office suite installed and
it weights in at just under 500 megs.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:25 PM, Andrew Woodhead 
andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:

 It's not copying, it is as you say learning from others. OpenOffice just
 isn't suitable but will be accessible via reops if you must install it. I
 personally only use abiword and know a great many users who have the entire
 suite installed and only use the writer. Its laughable.


 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Dallas Wiebelhaus 
 wiebelh...@gmail.comwrote:

 I agree Abiword is so incredibly fast and small and if someone has not
 tried it they should give it a spin , it's a brilliant little application! I
 could foresee someone adding openoffice if they needed that extra
 functionality but for simple out of the box word processing in a small
 efficient quick package , abiword can't be beat. We should all take a long
 hard look at what other small distributions are doing because they like
 Puppy have already pounded these discussions out , I'm not saying to copy
 but to learn from from their methodology.


 On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 6:14 PM, Andrew Woodhead 
 andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:

 OpenOffice in my opinion is far too bulky for a lightweight distro.

 0 upgraded, 44 newly installed, 0 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
 Need to get 123MB of archives.
 After this operation, 412MB of additional disk space will be used.

 Its just stupidly fat and bloated and doesn't fit with the ethos of
 Lubuntu. 0.5Gb for office productivity when gnumeric and abiword use a
 microscopic fraction of this.

 No way

 -Andy



  On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 10:52 PM, Ed Hewitt 
 edwardahew...@googlemail.com wrote:

  I think we should go with Firefox. However, OpenOffice would solve the
 problem of having no presentation software if we went with Abiword 
 Gnumeric. We could use these tweaks to speed up OpenOffice. 
 http://lifehacker.com/software/optimization/speed-up-openoffice-270775.php

 By going small, we will achieve the objective of achieving a
 lightweight distro. However, I still think a good out of the box 
 experience,
 as long as we keep it to a minimal. So by having a few basic utilities 
 (such
 as synaptic), need a few must have apps (such as web browser, office apps,
 chat, media player). we can still achieve a user friend lightweight distro.
 Its all about getting the right balance.

 Maybe another Lubuntu IRC Meeting could be useful to discuss my points.
 It would be great to have an application list set in time for Karmic. Could
 be Lubuntu's first release

 --
 www.edhewitt.co.uk

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread Andrew Woodhead
This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard
repos can be used to install apps if they are needed.
If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a minimal
install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed off the
repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland
efficient distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the
system with the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully
installable once the installation has completed but the initial base system
should be slick and quick

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:

 discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided

 Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between
 ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the
 other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to
 build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.

 I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the
 list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks
 where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the
 possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering
 bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the
 FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.

 The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable
 system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the
 real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or
 grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to
 install.

 More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have
 yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of
 bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system
 performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user
 could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice
 would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they
 mean for the final installed system.

 My $0.02.

 Cheers
 C David Rigby


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread Dallas Wiebelhaus
By the way , Chrome fits in like it's native and is running hella fast on
this DE on my test box. I'm about to crank the ram down and see how low I
can get.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Woodhead 
andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:

 This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard
 repos can be used to install apps if they are needed.
 If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a
 minimal install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed
 off the repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland
 efficient distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the
 system with the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully
 installable once the installation has completed but the initial base system
 should be slick and quick


 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:

 discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided

 Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between
 ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the
 other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to
 build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.

 I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the
 list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks
 where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the
 possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering
 bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the
 FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.

 The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable
 system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the
 real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or
 grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to
 install.

 More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have
 yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of
 bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system
 performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user
 could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice
 would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they
 mean for the final installed system.

 My $0.02.

 Cheers
 C David Rigby


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread Dallas Wiebelhaus
Stabilized without hiccups at 128mb ram , that's without youtube lagging out
, you can go lower no doubt.

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Dallas Wiebelhaus wiebelh...@gmail.comwrote:

 By the way , Chrome fits in like it's native and is running hella fast on
 this DE on my test box. I'm about to crank the ram down and see how low I
 can get.


 On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Woodhead 
 andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:

 This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard
 repos can be used to install apps if they are needed.
 If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a
 minimal install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed
 off the repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland
 efficient distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the
 system with the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully
 installable once the installation has completed but the initial base system
 should be slick and quick


 On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby 
 c.david.ri...@gmail.comwrote:

 On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:

 discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided

 Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between
 ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the
 other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to
 build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.

 I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the
 list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks
 where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the
 possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering
 bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the
 FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.

 The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable
 system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the
 real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or
 grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to
 install.

 More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have
 yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of
 bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system
 performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user
 could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice
 would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they
 mean for the final installed system.

 My $0.02.

 Cheers
 C David Rigby


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy Slow)

2009-06-29 Thread jon york

Hi guys, why dont we move this to the forum where it can be easier to document 
and organize these conversations?

also on that topic, in my opinion, we need to divide us into work partners, as 
right now, there is much discussion and no work being done. I think the first 
step, is quite simply that a select few people, who know LXDE and ubuntu the 
best, that they can create a base system that we can work with. this system 
should be very small, and include nothing but the neccesairy files to run lxde 
on ubuntu, as well as synaptic. that way, we can all have the same base system 
to work with, and test things out with.

Jon York



From: wiebelh...@gmail.com
Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 20:41:09 -0500
To: lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net
Subject: Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu could end up like Xubuntu (Heavy
Slow)

Stabilized without hiccups at 128mb ram , that's without youtube lagging out , 
you can go lower no doubt.  

On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:27 PM, Dallas Wiebelhaus wiebelh...@gmail.com wrote:


By the way , Chrome fits in like it's native and is running hella fast on this 
DE on my test box. I'm about to crank the ram down and see how low I can get.



On Mon, Jun 29, 2009 at 8:15 PM, Andrew Woodhead 
andrew.woodhead...@googlemail.com wrote:



This is kinda surplus, the system is still ubuntu based so the standard repos 
can be used to install apps if they are needed.



If the OS is going to be as it says below, you may as well install a minimal 
install then have a gui to select apps which can then be installed off the 
repos. This however isn't the case, we are trying to make a smalland efficient 
distro with a decent amount of functionality without bloating the system with 
the likes of evolution, openoffice and firefox. These are fully installable 
once the installation has completed but the initial base system should be slick 
and quick





On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 1:14 AM, C David Rigby c.david.ri...@gmail.com wrote:




On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 18:40 +0100, Ed Hewitt and several others wrote:



discussion of keep it light or feature complete elided



Restating the obvious, but the engineering trade off is always between

ease of use/fully featured on the one hand and lightweight on the

other. The necessary criterion is to decide what we really want to

build, and make it unique and useful enough to attract interest.



I've proposed it before, but I'll say it again as more people are on the

list now (sorry that I've missed the IRC meetings for the last two weeks

where the app mix has been the topic of discussion). How about the

possibility of a very slim base install with the installer offering

bundles to meet individual needs and desires? Something like the

FreeBSD or Debian text installers comes to mind.



The base installation would be just a command-line, network-capable

system plus enough of X to get LXDE operational. We would be pushing the

real work to the installer. The installer, whether text-based or

grahpical, would need to provide a lot of choices of bundles to

install.



More importantly, I think the installer should provide something I have

yet to see. That something is extensive documentation of the choices of

bundles of applications, and what they mean in terms of system

performance vs features. It should be organized so that a savvy user

could bypass the explanations (or load a jumpstart script), but a novice

would get a detailed explanation of what the choices are and what they

mean for the final installed system.



My $0.02.



Cheers

C David Rigby





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