Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
2010/12/30 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com: Hi everyone, I was thinking about this the past couple of days and figured I would throw it out there. Does Lubuntu handle basic tasks well enough that anyone can use it? I've been using Ubuntu since 6.04 and by 8.04 I pretty much gave up Windows all together. (I keep a copy on my machine just in case, but never really need to use it.) I've also played around with Fedora and more recently Peppermint and Lubuntu. In addition, I took two Red Hat Enterprise Linux Administrator course while finishing up my Enterprise Computer Programming degree at a local community college. Despite all of that I am NOT a expert Linux user. I prefer GUI over command line for most tasks. And I usually have to do a little research when trying to solve issues with my OS. I can do the basics in Linux, but really not much more without Google. So I would say I'm armed with a lot more Linux knowledge than your typical newbie, but not really skilled at it using it. So here's the deal. I've run across several issues while using Lubuntu that have consume a little more of my time that I would have liked. Mostly just little things, but they have all been things that I would expect my OS to handle out of the box. Here is my short list: 1. Installing from USB didn't work until I made the USB without storage. 2. Grub not updating after install. 3. Chrome not opening downloads properly until I changed xdg-open. 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) I'll admit that the list isn't too bad, but keep in mind that I had to spend a good bit of time researching and implementing the solutions. So the question is what is the ultimate goal for Lubuntu. I know you guys want it to be resource friendly. But who is it aimed at? The Linux geek who can tweak it or the average Joe who just want to be able to use it? Can it be resource friendly and not need tweaking? Is it just a matter of time to sort it out or a matter philosophy? Personally, I would like to see it stay lightweight AND handle all of the basics at the same time. I realize Lubuntu is young and the devs are busting their asses on it. I really do appreciate it, but I really believe that details matter and I hoping the Lubuntu team agrees because I want Lubuntu to succeed. Thanks for listening, Tim To make a quick answer, i have already some of this bugs on the radar, but we need time to fix them. It's not a will to have Lubuntu not adpated for everyone, we just needs time and people to fix them :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
Hiyas boss, I did cc the comment about the link being out of synch on lubuntu.net to them, but there is nothing I can do until they get back in touch. Hope you had a great New Year Eve's party, you certainly deserved one for all the work you have put into the project. Regards, Phill. On 1 January 2011 10:24, Julien Lavergne gi...@ubuntu.com wrote: 2010/12/30 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com: Hi everyone, I was thinking about this the past couple of days and figured I would throw it out there. Does Lubuntu handle basic tasks well enough that anyone can use it? I've been using Ubuntu since 6.04 and by 8.04 I pretty much gave up Windows all together. (I keep a copy on my machine just in case, but never really need to use it.) I've also played around with Fedora and more recently Peppermint and Lubuntu. In addition, I took two Red Hat Enterprise Linux Administrator course while finishing up my Enterprise Computer Programming degree at a local community college. Despite all of that I am NOT a expert Linux user. I prefer GUI over command line for most tasks. And I usually have to do a little research when trying to solve issues with my OS. I can do the basics in Linux, but really not much more without Google. So I would say I'm armed with a lot more Linux knowledge than your typical newbie, but not really skilled at it using it. So here's the deal. I've run across several issues while using Lubuntu that have consume a little more of my time that I would have liked. Mostly just little things, but they have all been things that I would expect my OS to handle out of the box. Here is my short list: 1. Installing from USB didn't work until I made the USB without storage. 2. Grub not updating after install. 3. Chrome not opening downloads properly until I changed xdg-open. 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) I'll admit that the list isn't too bad, but keep in mind that I had to spend a good bit of time researching and implementing the solutions. So the question is what is the ultimate goal for Lubuntu. I know you guys want it to be resource friendly. But who is it aimed at? The Linux geek who can tweak it or the average Joe who just want to be able to use it? Can it be resource friendly and not need tweaking? Is it just a matter of time to sort it out or a matter philosophy? Personally, I would like to see it stay lightweight AND handle all of the basics at the same time. I realize Lubuntu is young and the devs are busting their asses on it. I really do appreciate it, but I really believe that details matter and I hoping the Lubuntu team agrees because I want Lubuntu to succeed. Thanks for listening, Tim To make a quick answer, i have already some of this bugs on the radar, but we need time to fix them. It's not a will to have Lubuntu not adpated for everyone, we just needs time and people to fix them :) Regards, Julien Lavergne ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 23:22:47 -0500 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: Here is my short list: 1. Installing from USB didn't work until I made the USB without storage. Isn't this a general Ubuntu problem. 2. Grub not updating after install. A cock-up with the installer where os-prober didn't get installed. 3. Chrome not opening downloads properly until I changed xdg-open. xdg-open does seem to be a mess in lubuntu and does need sorting 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. Can you give some examples, as this is probably programs not complying with the freedesktop.org standard. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. A bit more information on this would be useful 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) Again, some more information would be useful. I'll admit that the list isn't too bad, but keep in mind that I had to spend a good bit of time researching and implementing the solutions. So the question is what is the ultimate goal for Lubuntu. I know you guys want it to be resource friendly. But who is it aimed at? The Linux geek who can tweak it or the average Joe who just want to be able to use it? Can it be resource friendly and not need tweaking? Is it just a matter of time to sort it out or a matter philosophy? The problem is, people, no matter how Lubuntu is set up out of the box not everybody will be happy. As an example, I can't do with the panel on the bottom of the screen so move it to the top before adjusting anything else. Really Lubuntu has to cope with both your average Joe and your average geek. The real problem, with all software, are those people that fall between the two groups. In this area there are again two groups. Those that would like to tweak but don't know how, so don't. The other is those that would like to tweak and don't know how, but do. These two groups are the ones we need to listen to in order to make things easier (more user friendly?). The main thing that comes from your missive is that Lubuntu needs to state it's goals louder and more clearly. Some distros hide their weaknesses behind 'shiny', a lot of distros derived from Lubuntu do this. Lubuntu isn't about 'shiny', it should be about functionality and this is what we shoul try and get across. Sorry if this has been a bit rambling and thanks to Tim for bringing this up. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) http://lubuntu.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
Thanks for the replies. Steve, I'll try to sort out the details of a few of my issues and post them in another thread. I think they are known issues though. Not sure if any are also in the latest versions of Ubuntu as I have not really used it since 9.10. (I did install 10.04 from a USB without issues though.) I prefer the speed and long battery life I get with Lubuntu and don't plan on going back to Ubuntu at this point. Also the first thing I do with Lubuntu is move the panel to the top and set it up to use icons. It makes the most sense to me. :) Tim On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.comwrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 23:22:47 -0500 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: Here is my short list: 1. Installing from USB didn't work until I made the USB without storage. Isn't this a general Ubuntu problem. 2. Grub not updating after install. A cock-up with the installer where os-prober didn't get installed. 3. Chrome not opening downloads properly until I changed xdg-open. xdg-open does seem to be a mess in lubuntu and does need sorting 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. Can you give some examples, as this is probably programs not complying with the freedesktop.org standard. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. A bit more information on this would be useful 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) Again, some more information would be useful. I'll admit that the list isn't too bad, but keep in mind that I had to spend a good bit of time researching and implementing the solutions. So the question is what is the ultimate goal for Lubuntu. I know you guys want it to be resource friendly. But who is it aimed at? The Linux geek who can tweak it or the average Joe who just want to be able to use it? Can it be resource friendly and not need tweaking? Is it just a matter of time to sort it out or a matter philosophy? The problem is, people, no matter how Lubuntu is set up out of the box not everybody will be happy. As an example, I can't do with the panel on the bottom of the screen so move it to the top before adjusting anything else. Really Lubuntu has to cope with both your average Joe and your average geek. The real problem, with all software, are those people that fall between the two groups. In this area there are again two groups. Those that would like to tweak but don't know how, so don't. The other is those that would like to tweak and don't know how, but do. These two groups are the ones we need to listen to in order to make things easier (more user friendly?). The main thing that comes from your missive is that Lubuntu needs to state it's goals louder and more clearly. Some distros hide their weaknesses behind 'shiny', a lot of distros derived from Lubuntu do this. Lubuntu isn't about 'shiny', it should be about functionality and this is what we shoul try and get across. Sorry if this has been a bit rambling and thanks to Tim for bringing this up. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) http://lubuntu.net ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktophttps://launchpad.net/%7Elubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
Here are the answers to Steve's questions: On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.comwrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 23:22:47 -0500 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. Can you give some examples, as this is probably programs not complying with the freedesktop.org standard. http://wiki.lxde.org/en/Main_Menu I realize that this is a lxde limitation at the present time, but it's still a pain. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. A bit more information on this would be useful I just found this in the latest release notes: Network File Browsing with PCManFM There has been reports of PCManFM having problems displaying networked drives and folders correctly. This is not actually a bug but a feature where it allows the user to decide if this package is required for them. If you would like to use PCManFM to browse networked drives and folders this is easily accomplished by simply installing the package gvfs-backends: sudo apt-get install gvfs-backends It worked like a charm! It wasn't in the notes when I installed Lubuntu. Also, I think it would be better to include this package by default. I think most users would assume this functionality would be standard. 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) Again, some more information would be useful. I lost the changes I made to xdg-open after one of the updates. Not sure why. I also lost a hacked wireless module I compiled that would allow me to use a wireless hotspot on my phone. (Which is too bad because it worked fine up to Ubuntu 9.10, but not with any of the 10.xx distros.) Maybe it's something I did wrong or it has to do with kernel updates? Like I said, I am not an expert. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) I think that covers it for now. Most of the stuff if more or less fixed on this system, but I'm in the process of setting up Lubuntu on my new laptop so I'll have to dig through a few of these issues again. None of them are deal beakers for me, but should I really need to dig around wikis and search the net for this stuff? I bet Average Joe won't bother and simply give up. Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
Hiyas Tim, I'm one of the pour souls who try to keep documentation up to date :P As we are also in the middle of transferring stuff over to the 'new home' for our information there are times it gets a little hectic (like forgetting to up date the new area to 10.10). Reading the release notes is always a good idea :) The comments from our user base are greatly appreciated by the team, it helps us work out where our time is best devoted. Thanks for your comments, they do get taken on board. Hiyas Julien, is the gvfs-backends by default going to take Lubuntu over the RAM and CPU usage? It has been raised a few times. Regards, Phill. On 30 December 2010 19:41, Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: Here are the answers to Steve's questions: On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Yorvyk yorvik.ubu...@googlemail.comwrote: On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 23:22:47 -0500 Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. Can you give some examples, as this is probably programs not complying with the freedesktop.org standard. http://wiki.lxde.org/en/Main_Menu I realize that this is a lxde limitation at the present time, but it's still a pain. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. A bit more information on this would be useful I just found this in the latest release notes: Network File Browsing with PCManFM There has been reports of PCManFM having problems displaying networked drives and folders correctly. This is not actually a bug but a feature where it allows the user to decide if this package is required for them. If you would like to use PCManFM to browse networked drives and folders this is easily accomplished by simply installing the package gvfs-backends: sudo apt-get install gvfs-backends It worked like a charm! It wasn't in the notes when I installed Lubuntu. Also, I think it would be better to include this package by default. I think most users would assume this functionality would be standard. 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) Again, some more information would be useful. I lost the changes I made to xdg-open after one of the updates. Not sure why. I also lost a hacked wireless module I compiled that would allow me to use a wireless hotspot on my phone. (Which is too bad because it worked fine up to Ubuntu 9.10, but not with any of the 10.xx distros.) Maybe it's something I did wrong or it has to do with kernel updates? Like I said, I am not an expert. -- Steve Cook (Yorvyk) I think that covers it for now. Most of the stuff if more or less fixed on this system, but I'm in the process of setting up Lubuntu on my new laptop so I'll have to dig through a few of these issues again. None of them are deal beakers for me, but should I really need to dig around wikis and search the net for this stuff? I bet Average Joe won't bother and simply give up. Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp -- https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM, Phill Whiteside phi...@phillw.net wrote: Hiyas Tim, I'm one of the pour souls who try to keep documentation up to date :P As we are also in the middle of transferring stuff over to the 'new home' for our information there are times it gets a little hectic (like forgetting to up date the new area to 10.10). Reading the release notes is always a good idea :) The comments from our user base are greatly appreciated by the team, it helps us work out where our time is best devoted. Thanks for your comments, they do get taken on board. Hiyas Julien, is the gvfs-backends by default going to take Lubuntu over the RAM and CPU usage? It has been raised a few times. Regards, Phill. Thanks Phill, I feel sorry for you guys who have to document this stuff. Also to be clear, I'm not complaining. I'm simply pointing where Lubuntu falls short in my opinion. I still think it's the best Linux option out there for me and I'm rooting for you guys. That's why I'm throwing my opinions out there. Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] Lubuntu for anyone?
Hi Tim all, I asked the same questions to myself several times :) I tried to fully switch to Lubuntu several times but till now I always went back to regular Ubuntu. I love Lubuntu's (LXDE's) simplicity and leanness, but for various reasons there is always some small bug or misbehavior that makes me go back to Ubuntu. I would love to have a 100% perfect Lubuntu (as most probably everybody here does), and make a complete switch to this distribution, but it did not happen so far. It is very clear to everybody who uses it that it becomes better and better with each release. 11.04 is (or will be) better that 10.10 and much better that 10.04. Congrats and big thank to everybody who puts long hours and energy creating this new distribution polished. The goal is clear, it is for old computers and/or low resource computers (sometimes it's the same thing) and average people who just installs it and uses it (no tweaking should be required). However there is a user group (including myself in here) who uses it on more powerful computers and likes this distro for it's leanness (or looks?). Of course it's frustrating if something does not work, but people here on this mailing list are very friendly and helpful, help is almost immediate. Thanks for this also! Thank you Lubuntu/LXDE Team and I'm looking forward for the second beta image :) Zoltan On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 5:22 AM, Tim Bernhard ohiom...@gmail.com wrote: Hi everyone, I was thinking about this the past couple of days and figured I would throw it out there. Does Lubuntu handle basic tasks well enough that anyone can use it? I've been using Ubuntu since 6.04 and by 8.04 I pretty much gave up Windows all together. (I keep a copy on my machine just in case, but never really need to use it.) I've also played around with Fedora and more recently Peppermint and Lubuntu. In addition, I took two Red Hat Enterprise Linux Administrator course while finishing up my Enterprise Computer Programming degree at a local community college. Despite all of that I am NOT a expert Linux user. I prefer GUI over command line for most tasks. And I usually have to do a little research when trying to solve issues with my OS. I can do the basics in Linux, but really not much more without Google. So I would say I'm armed with a lot more Linux knowledge than your typical newbie, but not really skilled at it using it. So here's the deal. I've run across several issues while using Lubuntu that have consume a little more of my time that I would have liked. Mostly just little things, but they have all been things that I would expect my OS to handle out of the box. Here is my short list: 1. Installing from USB didn't work until I made the USB without storage. 2. Grub not updating after install. 3. Chrome not opening downloads properly until I changed xdg-open. 4. Having to learn how to add menu items to lxde. 5. Not being able to find my NAS from PCmanFM. 6. Loosing some of my changes when Lubuntu updates. (Am I doing something wrong here???) I'll admit that the list isn't too bad, but keep in mind that I had to spend a good bit of time researching and implementing the solutions. So the question is what is the ultimate goal for Lubuntu. I know you guys want it to be resource friendly. But who is it aimed at? The Linux geek who can tweak it or the average Joe who just want to be able to use it? Can it be resource friendly and not need tweaking? Is it just a matter of time to sort it out or a matter philosophy? Personally, I would like to see it stay lightweight AND handle all of the basics at the same time. I realize Lubuntu is young and the devs are busting their asses on it. I really do appreciate it, but I really believe that details matter and I hoping the Lubuntu team agrees because I want Lubuntu to succeed. Thanks for listening, Tim ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp ___ Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop Post to : lubuntu-desktop@lists.launchpad.net Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~lubuntu-desktop More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
