Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

2011-12-12 Thread Jono Bacon
On 6 December 2011 06:37, Chris cyber.dr...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hai Charlie (and the rest),

 I think something went wrong with your reply so I forwarded to everyone
 again.
 @Scott K: I think it's a problem with using a lot of terms side-by-side and
 mixing things up even. As you can see, the page [1] Ubuntu uses is called
 Derivatives. However on that same page the officially recognized once are
 suddenly called flavor. In my humble opinion it's a more friendly term to
 use, but we should get some (dare I say it?) Unity in our naming scheme.
 It might have been my mistake, because the information [2] given by Kate
 apparently also talked about Flavors. But it's important everyone knows what
 the correct term is/should be.

 I hope this clears up some of the mess (originally created to ask for help
 on getting links to the meeting minutes).

I can see how there is some confusion here. I see them as:

 * Favors - community development distributions based on Ubuntu, but
part of the Ubuntu project (e.g. Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Edubuntu).
 * Derivatives - any other project based on Ubuntu but not part of the
Ubuntu project (e.g. Mint).

I think we should get some clarity on this and communicate this
outwards. Kate (CCed) - is this something can help with?

   Jono


-- 
Jono Bacon
Ubuntu Community Manager
www.ubuntu.com / www.jonobacon.org
www.identi.ca/jonobacon www.twitter.com/jonobacon

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

2011-12-06 Thread Scott Kitterman
On 12/06/2011 12:52 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:40 AM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com 
 wrote:
 None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative).  These are other
 distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project.  I think it's
 much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
 Ubuntu Server.

 I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
 is derivative correct.

 Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
 to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or 
 others
 to change this.  Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
 section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
 well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
 Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
 help with encouragement, inclusion and good will.  It's like you
 are beating up the messenger.

 We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
 many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
 call them.  We were asking for your help and instead you complain
 about the word.  Seriously?

 Because I find the term offensive.

 I bring it up whenever I see it used.  I even said that I recognized he
 was only using a term others use.

 Why should I not bring it up?
 
 
 You're right you have the right to your opinion; however, its the tone
 of your email (just like this one) that comes across has hostile and
 confrontational. I apologize if misunderstood.

 It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion.  If
 you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
 name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?
 
 Yes, but we don't make the names up, as you know.  So there is no
 sense hashing that out here. :-)   However, because you brought it up
 I will forward your issues onto Kate Stewart.
 Thanks for bringing to our attention.

I am hostile to the term as applied to Ubuntu flavors developed within
the Ubuntu project.  I'm not hostile to any of the people involved in
the discussion.  I'm sorry I communicated it in a way that felt hostile
to people.

Scott K


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

2011-12-05 Thread Scott Kitterman
None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative).  These are other
distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project.  I think it's
much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
Ubuntu Server.

I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
is derivative correct.

Scott K

On 12/05/2011 09:35 PM, Chris wrote:
 Hello everyone,
 
 I'd like to take this opportunity to tell everyone about the new section on
 the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter. It's a section devoted to the development of
 the official derivatives of Ubuntu. For this we'd like to receive every
 week that you have a meeting, a link to the summary of the meeting. This is
 all to more acknowledgement of the hard work everyone in the derivatives
 branches are doing.
 If there are any questions, please ask them here or on #ubuntu-news.
 akgraner and me (MrChrisDruif) should be around to answer your questions.
 
 With metta, Chris
 
 
 
 


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

2011-12-05 Thread Amber Graner
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote:
 None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative).  These are other
 distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project.  I think it's
 much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
 Ubuntu Server.

 I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
 is derivative correct.

Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or others
to change this.  Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
help with encouragement, inclusion and good will.  It's like you
are beating up the messenger.

We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
call them.  We were asking for your help and instead you complain
about the word.  Seriously?

Cheers,
Amber

 Scott K

 On 12/05/2011 09:35 PM, Chris wrote:
 Hello everyone,

 I'd like to take this opportunity to tell everyone about the new section on
 the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter. It's a section devoted to the development of
 the official derivatives of Ubuntu. For this we'd like to receive every
 week that you have a meeting, a link to the summary of the meeting. This is
 all to more acknowledgement of the hard work everyone in the derivatives
 branches are doing.
 If there are any questions, please ask them here or on #ubuntu-news.
 akgraner and me (MrChrisDruif) should be around to answer your questions.

 With metta, Chris








-- 
Amber Graner//akgraner//
http://akgraner.com/
http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/Blogs/Amber-Graner-You-in-Ubuntu


Just me Amber.

There are lots of Linux users who don't care how the kernel works, but
only want to use it. That is a tribute to how good Linux is.
Linus Torvalds

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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

2011-12-05 Thread Scott Kitterman
On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote:
 None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative).  These are other
 distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project.  I think it's
 much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
 Ubuntu Server.

 I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
 is derivative correct.
 
 Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
 to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or 
 others
 to change this.  Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
 section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
 well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
 Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
 help with encouragement, inclusion and good will.  It's like you
 are beating up the messenger.
 
 We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
 many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
 call them.  We were asking for your help and instead you complain
 about the word.  Seriously?

Because I find the term offensive.

I bring it up whenever I see it used.  I even said that I recognized he
was only using a term others use.

Why should I not bring it up?

It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion.  If
you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?

Scott K


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Re: [Lubuntu-desktop] New Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter section

2011-12-05 Thread Amber Graner
On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:57 AM, Steve Stalcup stalc...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Dec 5, 2011, at 10:40 PM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com wrote:

 On 12/06/2011 12:28 AM, Amber Graner wrote:
 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:15 AM, Scott Kitterman ubu...@kitterman.com 
 wrote:
 None of these are derivatives (Mint is a derivative).  These are other
 distribution products developed in the Ubuntu project.  I think it's
 much more correct to refer to them as siblings to Ubuntu (Desktop) and
 Ubuntu Server.

 I know you didn't make up this terminology, but in no sense of the word
 is derivative correct.

 Scott why bring this up to the UWN folks who are trying their hardest
 to bring the news to folks, why not bring it up to the release manager or 
 others
 to change this.  Chris, who is new to the news team, wanted to add a
 section to cover these distributions, and establish a relationship as
 well as let you all know what we (the news were doing).
 Responses like this, to someone who doesn't make those decisions don't
 help with encouragement, inclusion and good will.  It's like you
 are beating up the messenger.

 We on the news team are trying our best to bring coverage about as
 many of the flavors, derivatives, siblings or whatever you want to
 call them.  We were asking for your help and instead you complain
 about the word.  Seriously?

 Because I find the term offensive.

 I bring it up whenever I see it used.  I even said that I recognized he
 was only using a term others use.

 Why should I not bring it up?

 It's not meant as an attack on anyone, but to express an opinion.  If
 you're going to add a section as a part of showing appreciation, but
 name it something that bothers someone, isn't that useful to know?

 Scott K

 This is an insult, tbh [0].  But since when does Canonical care about any 
 other flavor?

 [0] http://www.ubuntu.com/project/about-ubuntu/derivatives

I am sorry you feel this way.  I have CC'd Jono Bacon into this
conversation b/c we on UWN are community members who are just wanting
to bring the news to the masses.  I can't speak for what Canonical
does or doesn't do and I don't want this thread to be about anything
other than what it was originally intended which was to ask for your
help in making sure we could bring the community news about each of
these distributions and make the community at large aware of the
various meetings etc.

Thanks for your understanding.

Cheers,
Amber



-- 
Amber Graner//akgraner//
http://akgraner.com/
http://www.ubuntu-user.com/Online/Blogs/Amber-Graner-You-in-Ubuntu


Just me Amber.

There are lots of Linux users who don't care how the kernel works, but
only want to use it. That is a tribute to how good Linux is.
Linus Torvalds

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