competition - Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
I wasn't sure where in this thread to reply so I'm replying to myself :) What search appliances exist now? I only found 3: [1] Google [2] Thunderstone http://www.thunderstone.com/texis/site/pages/Appliance.html [3] IndexEngines (not out yet) http://www.indexengines.com/ -- Also, out of curiosity, do people have appliance h/w vendors they like? These guys seem like they have nice options for pretty colors: http://www.mbx.com/oem/index.cfm http://www.mbx.com/oem/options/ David Spencer wrote: This reminds me, has anyone every discussed something similar: - rackmount server ( or for coolness factor, that mini mac) - web i/f for config/control - of course the server would have the following s/w: -- web server -- lucene / nutch Part of the work here I think is having a decent web i/f to configure the thing and to customize the L&F of the search results. jian chen wrote: Hi, I was searching using google and just found that there was a new feature called "google mini". Initially I thought it was another free service for small companies. Then I realized that it costs quite some money ($4,995) for the hardware and software. (I guess the proprietary software costs a whole lot more than actual hardware.) The "nice" feature is that, you can only index up to 50,000 documents with this price. If you need to index more, sorry, send in the check... It seems to me that any small biz will be ripped off if they install this google mini thing, compared to using Lucene to implement a easy to use search software, which could search up to whatever number of documents you could image. I hope the lucene project could get exposed more to the enterprise so that people know that they have not only cheaper but more importantly, BETTER alternatives. Jian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
In addition to this discution I would like to mention my efforts in creating a wrapper around Lucene with the LuceneServer project (http://sourceforge.net/projects/luceneserver/). It uses RMI to make indexes available over a network and includes automation tasks. I am courrently working on a search session mechanism that includes pagination and highlightment. I have many ideas to make it a real standalone Intranet search engine. I would be verry glad that some people could help me make it grow. Perhaps it could be a starting point of what Erik mentions. -Message d'origine- De : Erik Hatcher [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Envoyé : vendredi 28 janvier 2005 02:02 À : Lucene Users List Objet : Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there I've often said that there is a business to be had in packaging up Lucene (and now Nutch) into a cute little box with user friendly management software to search your intranet. SearchBlox is already there (except they don't include the box). I really hope that an application like SearchBlox/Zilverline can be created as part of the Lucene project itself, replacing the sad demos that currently ship with Lucene. I've got so many things on my plate that I don't foresee myself getting to this as soon as I'd like, but I would most definitely support and contribute what time I could to such an effort. If the web UI used Tapestry, I'd be very inclined to dig in hardcore to it. Any other web UI technology would likely turn me off. One of these days I'll Tapestry-ify Nutch just for grins and submit it as a replacement for the JSPs. And I'm even more sold on it if Mac Mini's are involved! :) Erik - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
>>Also need http://jcifs.samba.org/ so you can spider >>windows file shares. That project also has a very nice servlet filter that is used to provide automatic authentication of Windows clients using the NTLM protocol. ___ ALL-NEW Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
Jason Polites wrote: I think everyone agrees that this would be a very neat application of opensource technology like Lucene... however (opens drawer, pulls out devil's advocate hat, places on head)... there are several complexities here not addressed by Lucene (et. al). Not because Lucene isn't damn fantastic, just because it's not its job. One of the big ones is security. Enterprise search is no good if it doesn't match up with the authentication and authorization paradigms existing in the organisation. How useful is it to return a whole bunch of search results for documents to which you don't have access? Not to mention the issues around whether you are even authorized to know it exists. I was gonna mention this - you beat me to the punch. I suspect that LDAP/JNDI itegration is a start, but you need hooks for an arbitrary auth plugin. And once we address this it might be the case that a user has to *log in* to the search server. We have Verity where I work and this is all the case, along w/ the fact that a sale seems to involve mandatory consulting work (not that that's bad, but if you're trying to ship a shrink wrapped search engine in a box then this is an issue). The other prickly one is file types. It's all well and good to index HTML, XML and text but when you start looking at PDF, MS Office (OLE docs, PSTs, Outlook MSG files, MS Project files etc), Lotus Notes databases etc etc, things begin to look less simple and far less elegant than a nice clean lucene rackmount. Sure there are great projects like Apache POI but they are still have a bit of a way to go before they mature to a point of really solving these problems. After which time Microsoft will probably be rolling out Longhorn and everyone may need to start from scratch. Also need http://jcifs.samba.org/ so you can spider windows file shares. This is not to say that it's not a great idea, but as with most great ideas the challenge is not the formation of the idea, but its implementation. Indeed. I think a great first step would be to start developing good, reliable, opensource extensions to Lucene which strive to solve some of these issues. end rant. - Original Message - From: "Otis Gospodnetic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lucene Users List" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 12:40 PM Subject: Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there I discuss this with myself a lot inside my head... :) Seriously, I agree with Erik. I think this is a business opportunity. How many people are hating me now and going "shh"? Raise your hands! Otis --- David Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This reminds me, has anyone every discussed something similar: - rackmount server ( or for coolness factor, that mini mac) - web i/f for config/control - of course the server would have the following s/w: -- web server -- lucene / nutch Part of the work here I think is having a decent web i/f to configure the thing and to customize the L&F of the search results. jian chen wrote: > Hi, > > I was searching using google and just found that there was a new > feature called "google mini". Initially I thought it was another free > service for small companies. Then I realized that it costs quite some > money ($4,995) for the hardware and software. (I guess the proprietary > software costs a whole lot more than actual hardware.) > > The "nice" feature is that, you can only index up to 50,000 documents > with this price. If you need to index more, sorry, send in the > check... > > It seems to me that any small biz will be ripped off if they install > this google mini thing, compared to using Lucene to implement a easy > to use search software, which could search up to whatever number of > documents you could image. > > I hope the lucene project could get exposed more to the enterprise so > that people know that they have not only cheaper but more importantly, > BETTER alternatives. > > Jian > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
I think everyone agrees that this would be a very neat application of opensource technology like Lucene... however (opens drawer, pulls out devil's advocate hat, places on head)... there are several complexities here not addressed by Lucene (et. al). Not because Lucene isn't damn fantastic, just because it's not its job. One of the big ones is security. Enterprise search is no good if it doesn't match up with the authentication and authorization paradigms existing in the organisation. How useful is it to return a whole bunch of search results for documents to which you don't have access? Not to mention the issues around whether you are even authorized to know it exists. The other prickly one is file types. It's all well and good to index HTML, XML and text but when you start looking at PDF, MS Office (OLE docs, PSTs, Outlook MSG files, MS Project files etc), Lotus Notes databases etc etc, things begin to look less simple and far less elegant than a nice clean lucene rackmount. Sure there are great projects like Apache POI but they are still have a bit of a way to go before they mature to a point of really solving these problems. After which time Microsoft will probably be rolling out Longhorn and everyone may need to start from scratch. This is not to say that it's not a great idea, but as with most great ideas the challenge is not the formation of the idea, but its implementation. I think a great first step would be to start developing good, reliable, opensource extensions to Lucene which strive to solve some of these issues. end rant. - Original Message - From: "Otis Gospodnetic" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Lucene Users List" Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 12:40 PM Subject: Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there I discuss this with myself a lot inside my head... :) Seriously, I agree with Erik. I think this is a business opportunity. How many people are hating me now and going "shh"? Raise your hands! Otis --- David Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This reminds me, has anyone every discussed something similar: - rackmount server ( or for coolness factor, that mini mac) - web i/f for config/control - of course the server would have the following s/w: -- web server -- lucene / nutch Part of the work here I think is having a decent web i/f to configure the thing and to customize the L&F of the search results. jian chen wrote: > Hi, > > I was searching using google and just found that there was a new > feature called "google mini". Initially I thought it was another free > service for small companies. Then I realized that it costs quite some > money ($4,995) for the hardware and software. (I guess the proprietary > software costs a whole lot more than actual hardware.) > > The "nice" feature is that, you can only index up to 50,000 documents > with this price. If you need to index more, sorry, send in the > check... > > It seems to me that any small biz will be ripped off if they install > this google mini thing, compared to using Lucene to implement a easy > to use search software, which could search up to whatever number of > documents you could image. > > I hope the lucene project could get exposed more to the enterprise so > that people know that they have not only cheaper but more importantly, > BETTER alternatives. > > Jian > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
As they say, nothing lasts forever ;) I like the idea. If a project like this gets going, I think I'd be interested in helping. The Google mini looks very well done (they have two demos on the web page). For $5000, it's probably a very good solution for many businesses. If the demos are accurate, it seems like you almost literally plug it in, configure a few things using the web interface, and you're in business. Demos are at http://www.google.com/enterprise/mini/product_tours_demos.html -chris On Thu, 27 Jan 2005 17:40:53 -0800 (PST), Otis Gospodnetic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I discuss this with myself a lot inside my head... :) > Seriously, I agree with Erik. I think this is a business opportunity. > How many people are hating me now and going "shh"? Raise your > hands! > > Otis > > --- David Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This reminds me, has anyone every discussed something similar: > > > > - rackmount server ( or for coolness factor, that mini mac) > > - web i/f for config/control > > > > - of course the server would have the following s/w: > > -- web server > > -- lucene / nutch > > > > Part of the work here I think is having a decent web i/f to configure > > > > the thing and to customize the L&F of the search results. > > > > > > > > jian chen wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I was searching using google and just found that there was a new > > > feature called "google mini". Initially I thought it was another > > free > > > service for small companies. Then I realized that it costs quite > > some > > > money ($4,995) for the hardware and software. (I guess the > > proprietary > > > software costs a whole lot more than actual hardware.) > > > > > > The "nice" feature is that, you can only index up to 50,000 > > documents > > > with this price. If you need to index more, sorry, send in the > > > check... > > > > > > It seems to me that any small biz will be ripped off if they > > install > > > this google mini thing, compared to using Lucene to implement a > > easy > > > to use search software, which could search up to whatever number of > > > documents you could image. > > > > > > I hope the lucene project could get exposed more to the enterprise > > so > > > that people know that they have not only cheaper but more > > importantly, > > > BETTER alternatives. > > > > > > Jian > > > > > > > > - > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
I discuss this with myself a lot inside my head... :) Seriously, I agree with Erik. I think this is a business opportunity. How many people are hating me now and going "shh"? Raise your hands! Otis --- David Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > This reminds me, has anyone every discussed something similar: > > - rackmount server ( or for coolness factor, that mini mac) > - web i/f for config/control > > - of course the server would have the following s/w: > -- web server > -- lucene / nutch > > Part of the work here I think is having a decent web i/f to configure > > the thing and to customize the L&F of the search results. > > > > jian chen wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I was searching using google and just found that there was a new > > feature called "google mini". Initially I thought it was another > free > > service for small companies. Then I realized that it costs quite > some > > money ($4,995) for the hardware and software. (I guess the > proprietary > > software costs a whole lot more than actual hardware.) > > > > The "nice" feature is that, you can only index up to 50,000 > documents > > with this price. If you need to index more, sorry, send in the > > check... > > > > It seems to me that any small biz will be ripped off if they > install > > this google mini thing, compared to using Lucene to implement a > easy > > to use search software, which could search up to whatever number of > > documents you could image. > > > > I hope the lucene project could get exposed more to the enterprise > so > > that people know that they have not only cheaper but more > importantly, > > BETTER alternatives. > > > > Jian > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: rackmount lucene/nutch - Re: google mini? who needs it when Lucene is there
I've often said that there is a business to be had in packaging up Lucene (and now Nutch) into a cute little box with user friendly management software to search your intranet. SearchBlox is already there (except they don't include the box). I really hope that an application like SearchBlox/Zilverline can be created as part of the Lucene project itself, replacing the sad demos that currently ship with Lucene. I've got so many things on my plate that I don't foresee myself getting to this as soon as I'd like, but I would most definitely support and contribute what time I could to such an effort. If the web UI used Tapestry, I'd be very inclined to dig in hardcore to it. Any other web UI technology would likely turn me off. One of these days I'll Tapestry-ify Nutch just for grins and submit it as a replacement for the JSPs. And I'm even more sold on it if Mac Mini's are involved! :) Erik On Jan 27, 2005, at 7:16 PM, David Spencer wrote: This reminds me, has anyone every discussed something similar: - rackmount server ( or for coolness factor, that mini mac) - web i/f for config/control - of course the server would have the following s/w: -- web server -- lucene / nutch Part of the work here I think is having a decent web i/f to configure the thing and to customize the L&F of the search results. jian chen wrote: Hi, I was searching using google and just found that there was a new feature called "google mini". Initially I thought it was another free service for small companies. Then I realized that it costs quite some money ($4,995) for the hardware and software. (I guess the proprietary software costs a whole lot more than actual hardware.) The "nice" feature is that, you can only index up to 50,000 documents with this price. If you need to index more, sorry, send in the check... It seems to me that any small biz will be ripped off if they install this google mini thing, compared to using Lucene to implement a easy to use search software, which could search up to whatever number of documents you could image. I hope the lucene project could get exposed more to the enterprise so that people know that they have not only cheaper but more importantly, BETTER alternatives. Jian - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
