In the most '70s-est sense. Eugene
-----Original Message----- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Christopher Wilke Sent: Tuesday, December 26, 2017 8:11 PM To: Dan Winheld; r.turov...@gmail.com Cc: Ron Andrico; Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music Epitaph is a great one. I nearly wrecked my wrist practicing the middle section of Crimson's aptly-named "Fracture" on baroque lute. Constantly running straight 16th notes at 120 without a single break for close to 4 minutes. Ouch! Hats off to Robert Fripp who composed and performed that beast in guitar tuning, on which it isn't any easier. Fripp now uses a "New Standard Tuning" of his own invention, but recorded this piece in standard tuning in the 1970's. (How's that for HIP? ;-) Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A. Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer www.christopherwilke.com -------------------------------------------- On Tue, 12/26/17, <r.turov...@gmail.com> wrote: Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music To: "Dan Winheld" <dwinh...@lmi.net> Cc: "Ron Andrico" <praelu...@hotmail.com>, "Ido Shdaimah" <ishdai...@gmail.com>, "lutelist Net" <lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Date: Tuesday, December 26, 2017, 3:11 PM King Crimson’s Epitaph also works well! Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 26, 2017, at 1:32 PM, Dan Winheld <dwinh...@lmi.net> wrote: > > Excellent! There aren't nearly enough lute songs employing the Baroque lute. Perfect lute for Maestro Wait's vocal range & style. > > >> On 12/26/2017 7:13 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote: >> I have a couple of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that >> is an entirely different brow level! >> RT >> >> On 12/25/2017 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote: >> >> Interesting that you mention Taylor Swift and the lute. A sound >> engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and >> is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand >> performances. He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and >> very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest, >> direct, and convincing music. We're OK with that. >> >> RA >> __________________________________________________________________ >> >> From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2]<lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on >>>> behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]<r.turov...@gmail.com> >> Sent: >>Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM >> To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net >>>> Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music >> >> If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look >> for >> another >> instrument for myself. >> Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that >> permeates the >> commercial mass culture. >> Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash >> against mass production, >> and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields. >> RT >> On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote: >> > Interesting mail, Tristan. >> > While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute >> flourish in >> > the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is >> actually >> > in more popular types of music. >> > I think a few factors might block that though: >> > 1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his >> videos (If >> > I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and >> that >> > fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people >> don't >> > know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today. >> > 2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or >> want to >> > buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced >> Pakistani >> > lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough, >> would >> > do wonders to the lute world. >> > 3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of >> the old >> > music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example) >> suddenly >> > started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would >> > definitely see a large influx of new players. Having >> intabulations of >> > popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to >> bring >> > the instrument out of obscurity. >> > The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems >> of >> > French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool >> (but >> > obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and >> warm >> > tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my >> opinion). >> > I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above >> problems. >> > On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann" >> > [4]<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: >> > >> > This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to >> > explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music. >> > Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and >> more >> > of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh >> no - >> > back in the pundaemonium...) >> > 1. The audience for Early Music (even really early music) is >> bigger >> > than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik"). >> > Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general >> audience, >> > you can always assume it is because of a great sense of >> traditional >> > tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely >> > popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences. >> > In Europe, there's Arvo Pärt who left the path of atonality >> and >> > serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well >> based in >> > the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for >> > example). >> > Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an >> even >> > more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass standpoint) >> > Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part >> of >> > the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others >> have >> > treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move: >> > By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of >> > popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of >> time for >> > a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version", >> > establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more >> > successful than others. >> > Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal >> piece >> > of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really >> get >> > what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me >> that >> > though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles >> of >> > special music do not represent the reality of most people. >> > Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly >> fantastic >> > movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today, >> which >> > is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real >> orchestra. >> > But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be >> > ridiculed. >> > 2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is >> completely >> > going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex >> or >> > well set music of "non-classical new music", there is: >> > a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and >> often >> > deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music, >> embracing >> > concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint, >> though >> > often very fast paced. >> > b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to >> "New >> > Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never >> > reach. >> > Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) maybe "Alarm will >> Sound", a >> > chamber orchestra from New York, that plays complex Electronic >> Music >> > arrangements. >> > "Ensemble Resonanz" in Hamburg, who are for years getting >> their >> > foot into the club scene, attract new audiences for "New >> Music", >> > while also playing Early Music (and everything in between). >> They are >> > not afraid to play Perotin and Philip Glass in the same >> concert, or >> > have Finnish electronic musician Jimi Tenor write music for >> them. >> > Other ensembles in other countries and cities might try similar >> > things, though when I search on youtube, such fruitful >> crossovers >> > seem rare. >> > c) Computer and Video game music. >> > The Japanese have now for years a very healthy relationship to >> music >> > composed for video games. It is completely normal to hear the >> Tokyo >> > Phil play the Super Mario Bros. theme, or a Legend of Zelda >> Medley. >> > These compositions are often surprisingly good and well >> arranged, >> > because - in reverse - classically trained composers have no >> fear >> > writing for a video game. >> > If you look on youtube, there are literally thousands of videos >> of >> > teenagers playing video game music on their piano, guitar, >> ukulele, >> > etc., some even forming little ensembles, making even their own >> > arrangements. >> > 3. Sounds familiar? Well, the Lute repertoire fits exactly >> these >> > purposes - you want crazy Ricercars for the outgoing >> > experimentalists, some popular songs, some dance music, you >> copy >> > your favourite tunes, make mixtapes (Lute books), copy music >> from >> > friends etc. >> > Some hits appear everywhere, some gems (nearly) get lost. >> > The lute is an instrument that appeals to Metal/Rock people, >> > because it allows great versatile styles more intense, somehow >> > brighter, louder and more subtle than a modern guitar, and it's >> > Medievalish cool. >> > A cittern might even be considered the "electric guitar" of its >> > time. >> > I don't know what happend to the group "Pantagruel", but the >> leader >> > of the band had deeper experiences with rock music, his Early >> music >> > interpretations felt very engaging. >> > Or maybe someone remembers the late Owain Phyfe. >> > This is the attitude at least I am looking for. >> > The lute is great to sing to, and it doesn't matter if it's >> Dowland >> > or Bob Dylan, it will still sound great. Lute is for songs. >> > Today's dance music might be difficult to recreate on a lute, >> but >> > with some percussion, this could be achieved. >> > And last but not least: there are tons of Fantasy RPG's with >> catchy >> > kind of medieval/renaissance-ish tunes that people would love >> to >> > play on the lute. >> > And the movie scores again. >> > 4. For some time now, German music shoppe giant "Thomann" has >> taken >> > Lute instruments into their portfolio. These are specially >> > commissioned lines of instruments - I don't know if one of you >> had >> > tried one of those Lutes, Theorbos or Renaissance/Baroque >> guitars. >> > I'd be interested to hear about experiences with these >> instruments, >> > as it seemed to me that these are not the infamous Pakistani >> > instruments. >> > Well - basically you can now get a Lute for $500 if you don't >> mind >> > the clean cut flat rose etc., similar to Le Luth Doré, which >> seems >> > to make similar restrictions to achieve a lower price. >> > If Lutists and Luthiers overcome the resentment of these >> production >> > methods and instead encouraging lowering the bar for the huge >> number >> > of amateur guitarists, who might not be able to afford a real >> hand >> > crafted master lute. These people might even try the original >> stuff, >> > as they have not only the actual instrument, but also a great >> > popular tab system (French) and lots of great original pieces >> at >> > hand in the internets. >> > 5. Conclusion: >> > I see a brighter future for the lute. Neither in the Early >> Music >> > scene, nor in the New Music scene, but in popular music through >> the >> > playing of popular music on the Lute. >> > Some steps are made, but it's on you to widen your repertoire a >> bit. >> > What you can do: Play Metallica or Katie Perry, or Depeche Mode >> on >> > the lute, and if your intabulations are any good, other people >> will >> > want to play them. You will at least encourage them to try it >> on >> > their guitar, where they will come to the conclusion that the >> lute >> > might just be the cooler instrument after all. Of course there >> were >> > no copyright issues back then... >> > This would have to be sorted out. >> > There should be more themed intabulation contests, or even >> > "intabulation and fantasy" Paladin style. >> > Legend of Zelda, Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, it's all >> there. >> > Don't let guitarists be the only ones :) >> > Here's some inspiration: >> > [2][5]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtDX-KsBDQA >> > [3][6]https://www.youtube.com/watch?vóh9jGSBVJo >> > [4][7]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gG3wpCeYogQ >> > [5][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnINBKOnDZU >> > [6][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkRd_OmsJKk >> > Props to those people, maybe some of them are here on the list. >> > >> > Am 22.12.2017 um 20:13 schrieb Ron Andrico: >> > >> > Both Chris and Gilbert have made excellent points: New music >> for >> > the >> > lute is not widely accepted because the lute is considered to >> be a >> > representative emblem of early music, and new music for the >> lute is >> > not >> > taught in conservatories because lute teachers holding >> conservatory >> > posts must adhere to the received and accepted idea of what >> defines >> > early music. >> > I have expended a great deal of time and energy researching >> and >> > digesting information describing the arc of the early music >> revival >> > and, in my view, the lute simply will not survive the >> apparent >> > downward >> > spiral and eventual demise of the early music revival - >> unless the >> > instrument somehow transcends the bounds of its >> associations with >> > early music. New music for the lute may help the instrument >> > survive, >> > but it will not happen without certain compromises. >> > I'll have much more to say on the topic in the coming year. >> Watch >> > this >> > space. >> > RA >> > > To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
