Martin,
I use quite a large diameter double loop fret on bigger lutes, for example the
first fret on my large theorbo is around 1.2mm, and have no problem at all in
tightening it up. The key is to use the proper knot and leave sufficient length
to grasp well - in short the double loop fret
Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2005 13:11:37 +0100
(BST)
From: Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Built-in action? Double frets
To: Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The historical evidence is that double fret loops were generally used; always
excepting
Thank you Michael,
I'm not suggesting any definition of the word 'action' but that it would be
more rational to concentrate on the displacement to fingerboard rather than to
the fret top.
regards,
Martyn Hodgson
Michael Thames [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Surely the better indicator
fleshy finger ends, which I guess
was never the case for impoverished 16thC musicians!). They also claim
large frets make playing ornaments easier.
Comments, anyone?
Best wishes,
Martin
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Martin,
Yes. But one of the problems continues to be the reluctance of players
for performance on that
instrument.
regards,
Martyn
Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Date: Sat, 21 May 2005 11:28:48 +0100 (BST)
From: Martyn Hodgson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: The List!
To: Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Lute Net lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
But perhaps you ought
But perhaps you ought really to be thinking of how the Old Ones held the
instrument and use this as the basis for discussion; surely they have something
to tell us.
Dr. Marion Ceruti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Arto and other friends,
For the benefit of those who forgot the context, we
A serious case that may close down the acclaimed Hyperion records as well as
the other implications.
Helen Peate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Subject: HYPERION APPEAL RESULT
Date: Thu, 19 May 2005 10:25:11 +0100
From: Helen Peate [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HYPERION RECORDS FAILS AT APPEAL
Hyperion
\
ij·§¶\¢ Ê'ªíÊ| ¢é/µï^:×¾µÝ8n×ÓËm4çOvë_ÓM4ëaz{bq«b¢t^²ém²kZ×}fj)n\ ¢gë¢
To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
Pure speculation of course but, if only 6/7 fingered and 4 (doubled) bass
courses, don't overlook that it cld conceivably be an arch-colachon: 18thC
mandoras and colachons gathered additional bass courses, altho a 1720
conversion date is probably too early fr a 10 course instrument. Whether
temperament (not some kind
of meantone sysytem) should be the order of the day, suggesting that
perhaps they were in the minority.
Best wishes,
Stewart.
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Stewart McCoy ; Lute Net
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 11:55 AM
Subject: Re
Thank you Arto,
I'm not sure I can trust my Italian either: at least to get a totally accurate
translation. I shall pass it onto a colleague to be on the safe side. In the
meantime, if any of our Italian friends can help...
rgds
Martyn
Arto Wikla [EMAIL
, if you would like me to.
Best wishes,
Stewart McCoy.
- Original Message -
From: Martyn Hodgson
To: Lute Net
Sent: Monday, April 04, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: 'Tastini' evidence
Would someone kindly remind me of all the historical evidence for
''tastini', for their actual widespread use
Thank you Arto.
The 1584 book is paginated running to page no. 182. Pages 120 through to 175
contain only tablature with no text other than titles of the pieces: - page 155
has an intabulation of 'Non ved'il mondo'; - page 162 of 'Caronte' and 'Mentre
di poggia'. In short, as you suggest,
else has other HISTORICAL evidence, I'd be grateful for it.
rgds
Martyn
'
Daniel Shoskes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Monday, April 04, 2005, at 12:57PM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:
Would someone kindly remind me of all the historical evidence for ''tastini',
for their actual widespread use
Before inventing new ways of holding an instrument, it's useful to look at what
early players actually did.
For the lute the following come to mind:
- Iconography depicting extended peghead lutes (ie theorboes, archlutes, late
german baroque lutes) frequently shows the use of a
No Daniel, it's not just G I'm afraid but on the basis of historical evidence,
or rather lack of it, most other early lutenists. If we are serious about
period performance it is important we pay proper regard to what they wld have
expected based on the evidence and not our personal
Would someone kindly remind me of all the historical evidence for ''tastini',
for their actual widespread use and examples of any iconography depicting them.
Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
--
To get on or off this list see list
Interestingly, one of the few lutenists to indicate damping (he calls it 'die
Etoufement') is Von Radolt in 'Die Alle Treueste...' (Wien 1701): he
uses two small slashes // after the note to be damped. I've just skimmed
through it and can't find an example where the symbol is used on
or different. In any case, this is how we use these words it in the NEW
country.
My warmest regards to all,
Marion
-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Mar 16, 2005 11:48 AM
To: Roman Turovsky
Cc: Lute Net
Subject: Re: Hoffmann Mandora/Gallichon
Thank you Roman,
in short - a guitar
displacement which is sadly not atypical. Both Budapest
Jauch and Brunner baroque lutes suffered this at some point during the 19th
century.
RT
--
http://polyhymnion.org/torban
-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Mar 16, 2005 1:05 AM
To: Mathias R?
Cc: Lute Net
Mathias,
Thank you fr this - I'm not quite sure the point you're making. I specifically
said that we ought not to think of V's instrument as a guitar - my comment
point about the tuning he might have employed was an altogether different
point; I'm sorry if this was not clear enough. As has
Please, Roman - I was v careful to insert the adjective 'only' in front of
'music' ; perhaps I ought to have gone even further and made it clear I'm
speaking about the instrument in the normal guitar tuning. I can't think what
else wld have been done with it in the mid 19thC.
To my mind
Thank you for your comments Mathias, but:
- are you not aware that guitars were made in lute shape in the 19thC (and in
other shapes as well for that matter - eg lyre guitar).
- defining a guitar as a 'shallow bodied' instrument is surely asking for
trouble - probably better to relate to
Precisely my point
regards,
Martyn
Mathias Rösel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In my opinion how it could be used is more important than what you call it.
that would indeed be the case, if some of the names were synonymous.
However, each name stands for a certain tuning, stringing, kind of
not atypical. Both Budapest
Jauch and Brunner baroque lutes suffered this at some point during the 19th
century.
RT
--
http://polyhymnion.org/torban
-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Mar 16, 2005 1:05 AM
To: Mathias R?
Cc: Lute Net
Subject: Re: Hoffmann Mandora
-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Mar 16, 2005 1:05 AM
To: Mathias R?
Cc: Lute Net
Subject: Re: Hoffmann Mandora/Gallichon
Thank you for your comments Mathias, but:
- are you not aware that guitars were made in lute shape in the 19thC (and in
other
displacement which is sadly not atypical. Both Budapest
Jauch and Brunner baroque lutes suffered this at some point during the 19th
century.
RT
--
http://polyhymnion.org/torban
-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Mar 16, 2005 1:05 AM
To: Mathias R?
Cc: Lute Net
-Original Message-
From: Martyn Hodgson
Sent: Mar 16, 2005 1:05 AM
To: Mathias R?
Cc: Lute Net
Subject: Re: Hoffmann Mandora/Gallichon
Thank you for your comments Mathias, but:
- are you not aware that guitars were made in lute shape in the 19thC (and
in
other shapes as well
My view is that it is most likely a guitar (or rather late 19thC german
lute/guitar) conversion direct from a lute. There are numerous examples of
18thC Colachons/mandoras (see Gill et als) and leaving aside the obvious guitar
conversion features (eg bridge, rose) it looks pretty atypical (eg
Most Lutes before the early 1600s do not appear to have stuck on frets (see
iconography) - the practice was to play on the belly.
Walter Durka [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
collective lute wisdom,
in his Toccata Prima from Intavolatura di luto (Bolgona 1639) Piccini
goes up to the 20th fret on
Stephan,
If I might interject a practical performance note: whilst some of the solo
repertoire may well benefit from a form of meantone temperament (although as
Roman points out this is very much a moot point by the mid 18thC), continuo
playing in works such as later operas requires ranging
Roman,
Whilst, as you'll be aware, there are quite a number of intabulated
accompaniments fr Dm lute from the 18thC, surely a professional continuo player
(eg SL Weiss) from that period played from staff notation? Indeed isn't there
a letter from him to say he couldn't be bothered to use
I know of no evidence that the theorbo pitched 4th higher than usual was used
for continuo - do you?
Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005, Roman Turovsky wrote:
Also, short of having written tablature accompaniment for the d-min
lute (such as you have for your lieder),
Or even better, why not use the Colachon (various spellings) for which there
is real 18thC evidence of usage in Northern Europe. Telleman amongst others
specified it (and not tiorba).
Martyn
LGS-Europe [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This thread started as a question for suitable continuo
Thank you Arto,
However, by evidence I meant historical evidence from the early period; - I'm
sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Martyn
Arto Wikla [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Dear Martyn and the List,
on Thursday 10 March 2005 11:22 Martyn Hodgson wrote:
I know of no evidence
-minor lute as a common continuo
instrument: there is no reason to deny the same misapplication for the
theorbe-de-pieces.
RT
__
Roman M. Turovsky
http://polyhymnion.org/swv
From: Martyn Hodgson
However, by evidence I meant historical evidence from the early period; - I'm
sorry if I
Quite.
But how does this justify yr position that it is 'preposterous' etc to play
from staff notation on a Dm tuned instrument?
Martyn
Roman Turovsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Whilst, as you'll be aware, there are quite a number of intabulated
accompaniments fr Dm lute from the
But as Roman has already pointed out, a recording tells us very little. Much
depends on the whims of recording engineers, who like to have all instruments
audible even where not true to life, and the understandable egos of players,
who also like to have their efforts heard; again even when
not to encourage such
sloppy thinking.
regards
Martyn Hodgson
Alexander
Batov
Stewart,
I wld normally play this as yr option 3.
You may not be aware that playing just the octave of a bass course is in
fact specifically notated in a number of sources for the'baroque' lute
roughly contemporary with Losy. Two come readily to mind: Mouton's books
and the book by Von Radolt
Stewart,
I know the Ms well - I mentioned it apropos the recent communications
about octave 2nd on the Theorbo. The point being that some of the pieces
very clearly require an upper octave 2nd and some a lower; there are a few
ambiguous passages (like Melli)
Martyn
Sorry, I meant Goess (also known as the Ebenthal MSs I believe). Facsimiles
of all these tablature MSs are available from Tree Editions
Stewart McCoy
)
martyn hodgson writes:
You misunderstand the point: for larger theorboes, ie those
You misunderstand the point: for larger theorboes, ie those that would
normally be required to lower the 2nd an octave as well as the first, the
physics doesn't work. Of course, for smaller theorboes (say, less than
around 80cm) only the first would normally be required to be lowered (as
the
Stewart,
I posted something about this over a year (or so) ago when it first emerged
in this forum, so I'll not repeat myself other than to say it's simply a
question of the physics: the highest courses were tuned down an octave
because the string stress exceeded the breaking stress of the
Stewart,
This matter was discussed at length a year or so ago: it is a chimera.
Other than wishful thinking, there is no evidence for use of a theorbo
second course strung in octaves; indeed, since the stress of a higher
octave second would exceed the maximum breaking stress, it is highly
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