[LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire
Two thumbs up for Martin's anthology! - I got my copy from him years ago at lute seminar, it has a wonderful balance of repertoire in all ways. By the way, much of Hans Newsidler's intabs are no push overs. He will first give you a pretty straight intab, then follow with an ornamented one. Timing, rhythms can be very tricky if you don't tweak your pace properly. I love all of them, and it is especially rewarding to learn & play his "Mille Regretz" after all these years of only playing the justly popular version by Narvaez. Both are superb examples of the art of intabulation at its best. Dan On 12/7/2017 1:50 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote: Since we're talking about Newsidler: Yes, his books are ideal for learning to read German tablature because the letters are very clear and distinct and he only introduces a few symbols at a time. Many of the German Tenorlieder are frustrating because they have these huge gaps between sections - perhaps we should improvise some twiddly bits to fill the gaps? You can find some nice music (56 pieces) from German prints (in French tab) in my anthology "Renaissance Lute Music from German Sources" published by the Lute Society in 2000 (http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/catalogue#b). Martin On 07/12/2017 08:04, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Well then, you are lucky! Deciphering obscure German Tabs is one of my next projects. I'm running out of new music, so this would be the way to go, and as a side effect, I might even learn to play from those tabs. I plan to transcribe with lute in hand. Does anyone have any insight into which German tab books are most desired as transcriptions? I prefer German song intabulations to French chansons. Italian Madrigals are ok. Most welcome of course are interesting Fantasies and groovy dances. Am 07.12.2017 um 01:44 schrieb G. C.: So, Hans Newsidler seems to be a good place to begin, judging from the many manuscript copies that were made of his books. He not only was an early Renaissance lutenist, but had a didactic flair which caught on and demonstrably also worked. (Both his sons Conrad and Melchior became outstanding lutenists, especially Melchior). German tablature is also made approachable for a modern player through his easy pieces. There is a wealth of (often quite virtuosic) music available in the many German tablature manuscripts, which have not yet been sufficiently researched and are still awaiting academic and performer discovery. G. On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:15 AM, Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: THanks G., I own the Poulton Lute Book, also I browse regularly through Sarge Gerbode's site. I have harvested literally 1000s of pieces now... But you never know what's out there, so that's why I asked, and also to see what people think is on the easy to intermediate side. Hans Neusiedler is really really good though, I practically learned to play the lute with his pieces. -- References 1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[LUTE] Re: Stringing Question (German Lute)
Hello, Tristan all. In my limited understanding, these instruments were originally intended to be tuned like a standard guitar, EADgbe at.A440, and in fact are often referred to in English as "guitar-lutes" or "lute-guitars" I have a couple of music books for "laute" from the time, and it's clear that the music is interchangeable with a standard guitar, though often with sub-basses. I think most people who have them just use standard nylon guitar string sets, though I hope with low-tension, and of course they would have originally been gut for the 3 treble strings, and silk overspun with wire, often called "metal strings" at the time, for the 3 bass strings.. Frequently people erroneously believe that a pin-style bridge indicates that an instrument was intended to have metal strings, but that is not necessarily the case before about 1930. Also, many damaged guitar-type instruments of the era appear to have been destroyed by people restringing them with wire at high tension. I have no idea why they scalloped the fingerboard between the frets, except to make it look old and romantic (see below) I can't imagine any effect other than making the intonation shaky. Frankly, I think these instruments have little to do with the historical lute tradition except the shape of the back and the decorated soundhole, and these were borrowed to evoke a romantic. pre-Raphaelite "ancient times" appearance. That said, they now represent a historical moment and aesthetic in themselves, and deserve to be preserved on that basis.Somewhere on my computer I have collection, ca. 1925, of Volkslieder for voice and laute, complete with medievalist line-drawing illustrations, that I'd be happy to share. []^[DEL: :DEL] Best to all, and keep playing. Chris On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:20 PM, Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: Thank you very much Joachim! I decided to string it in G (415Hz) and with the tension of a medium tension Renaissance Lute and see what happens. If it doesn't work, I'll try F. I can't say right now- the one rib joint that has come apart and became warped is now fixed bent the opposite way with an old banking card and gaffer tape. Hopefully the wood will reshape over some time so I can glue it with good old Dr. Oetker Blattgelatine ;). That way I don't have to dismantle the whole bowl which I wouldn't want to try... Am 07.12.2017 um 21:30 schrieb Joachim Lüdtke: Sorry to have you waiting! Generally: rather light, especially if the instrument has suffered from time and bad treatment. Like 'Wandervogel' guitars, the lutes contemporary with them are fit for strings which are somewhere between the very light ones one puts on Early Romantic guitars and those you string your Andres Segovia memorial monster with... I have difficulties with defining a tension yet as I would have to bring out one of my calculators first. All best Joachim -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Stringing Question (German Lute) Datum: 2017-11-30T22:11:37+0100 Von: "Tristan von Neumann" <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> An: "lutelist Net" <[3]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu> Thank you! This is very helpful, especially coming from you! I recently bought "The Lute in Europe 2" and I'm very awestruck by the book :) So I'm going to use my good old fishing wire (1150 kg/m ³). What tension would you recommend? Am 30.11.2017 um 21:21 schrieb Joachim Lüdtke: Gut â definitely â was the material of the original strings. Even with such a thick soundboard, don't put on metal strings. The whole structure of both guitars as galutes/lutars or whatchamacallits from about that time is not fit to withstand the pressure put on it by metals strings for long. Don't judge the soundboard thickness by what you can measure at the rose: these were (most?) often not cut into the soundboard, but set in and were sawn out of a material considerably thicker than the soundboard wood itself, whicht might be about 3 mm. If you really want to try out metal strings (your own risk, Tristan!), use a set of silk-and-steel strings as recommended for old American parlor guitars. Good luck! Joachim P.S.: you will find metal strings with old German guitars and instrument like your six-string lute occasionally. They were introduced in years when gut became rare, and nylon strings were not yet available (nylon strings were provided as a replacement material first and only later became a 'standard' for 'classical' guitars). The metal strings have ruined a lot of instruments ... Lektorat & Korrektorat Dr. Joachim Lüdtke BlumenstraÃe 20 D-90762 Fürth Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20 Mail: [4]jo.lued...@t-online.de Mitglied im
[LUTE] Re: Stringing Question (German Lute)
Thank you very much Joachim! I decided to string it in G (415Hz) and with the tension of a medium tension Renaissance Lute and see what happens. If it doesn't work, I'll try F. I can't say right now- the one rib joint that has come apart and became warped is now fixed bent the opposite way with an old banking card and gaffer tape. Hopefully the wood will reshape over some time so I can glue it with good old Dr. Oetker Blattgelatine ;). That way I don't have to dismantle the whole bowl which I wouldn't want to try... Am 07.12.2017 um 21:30 schrieb Joachim Lüdtke: Sorry to have you waiting! Generally: rather light, especially if the instrument has suffered from time and bad treatment. Like 'Wandervogel' guitars, the lutes contemporary with them are fit for strings which are somewhere between the very light ones one puts on Early Romantic guitars and those you string your Andres Segovia memorial monster with... I have difficulties with defining a tension yet as I would have to bring out one of my calculators first. All best Joachim -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Stringing Question (German Lute) Datum: 2017-11-30T22:11:37+0100 Von: "Tristan von Neumann"An: "lutelist Net" Thank you! This is very helpful, especially coming from you! I recently bought "The Lute in Europe 2" and I'm very awestruck by the book :) So I'm going to use my good old fishing wire (1150 kg/m³). What tension would you recommend? Am 30.11.2017 um 21:21 schrieb Joachim Lüdtke: Gut – definitely – was the material of the original strings. Even with such a thick soundboard, don't put on metal strings. The whole structure of both guitars as galutes/lutars or whatchamacallits from about that time is not fit to withstand the pressure put on it by metals strings for long. Don't judge the soundboard thickness by what you can measure at the rose: these were (most?) often not cut into the soundboard, but set in and were sawn out of a material considerably thicker than the soundboard wood itself, whicht might be about 3 mm. If you really want to try out metal strings (your own risk, Tristan!), use a set of silk-and-steel strings as recommended for old American parlor guitars. Good luck! Joachim P.S.: you will find metal strings with old German guitars and instrument like your six-string lute occasionally. They were introduced in years when gut became rare, and nylon strings were not yet available (nylon strings were provided as a replacement material first and only later became a 'standard' for 'classical' guitars). The metal strings have ruined a lot of instruments ... Lektorat & Korrektorat Dr. Joachim Lüdtke Blumenstraße 20 D-90762 Fürth Tel.: 0911 / 976 45 20 Mail: jo.lued...@t-online.de Mitglied im Verband der freien Lektorinnen und Lektoren www.vfll.de www.lektoren.de/profil/joachim-luedtke -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [LUTE] Stringing Question (German Lute) Datum: 2017-11-30T19:58:23+0100 Von: "Tristan von Neumann" An: "lutelist Net" Hi there, I'm currently repairing my old German Lute (6x1, 62cm), previously decorative only. Some ribs have come apart. I managed one connection already. I noticed that it has very thin ribs (about 1-1.5mm), however the soundboard is quite thick judging at the rose (about 4-5mm). There is one leftover string attached on the 4th course, it seems contemporary and is wound metal. The lute has a one piece carved pegbox with ornamented back plate and flowerhead, and mechanical pegs. The fingerboard has metal frets with arches in between. The strings are attached with wooden pins into holes in the bridge. It seems about 100 years old. No maker's plate is visible inside the bowl. After having it in ok condition I plan to string it -- what would you suggest? Metal or nylon (in the latter case I'll use my fishing line)? Is there a way to tell if it was metal or gut strung? Personally I would prefer metal for more cittern-like sound, unless anyone advises strongly against it. Cheers Tristan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Game of Thrones Theme
Here's a guitar duet I found on YouTube: [1]http://artofguitar.net/courses/game-of-thrones-arranged-for-classica l-guitar-duet/ On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 3:04 PM, Tristan von Neumann <[2]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: .. don't laugh, but I'd like to play the Game of Thrones theme... Does anyone have a nice intabulation? :) To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://artofguitar.net/courses/game-of-thrones-arranged-for-classical-guitar-duet/ 2. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Game of Thrones Theme
.. don't laugh, but I'd like to play the Game of Thrones theme... Does anyone have a nice intabulation? :) To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mus.Hs.17706 Sammlung von Lautentabulaturen von verschiedenen Komponisten
Excellent! Thank you so much for your wonderful work, David! > Le 7 déc. 2017 à 09:08, David Smitha écrit : > > I received a request recently about this manuscript and went ahead and > downloaded it. There are a LOT of blank pages and the theorbo parts > start at the end, upside down, and come forward. I have posted two > versions. The first is the complete download as posted on the > Österreichische Nationalbibliothek web page. The other is without the > blank pages and the theorbo parts rotated and put into the correct > order. There is a blank page between the two. > > > It can be found at: [1]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ > > > I hope this is useful to someone. > > > Regards > > David Smith > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Professorship in Cologne
https://www.hfmt-koeln.de/nc/en/aktuelles/stellenangebote.html BTW, this Umlaut-problem seems rather new on my machine, I don't understand this... So, it's Junghaenel... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Stephan Olbertz Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 11:53 An: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Professorship in Cologne Hi all, this is to inform you that the Cologne Musikhochschule is looking for a new lute professor (50 %) in succession to Konrad Junghänel. Application ends on January the 15. Please spread the word to your worldclass friends... Best regards Stephan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] WG: Professorship in Cologne
https://www.hfmt-koeln.de/nc/en/aktuelles/stellenangebote.html BTW, this Umlaut-problem seems rather new on my machine, I don't understand this... So, it's Junghaenel... -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] Im Auftrag von Stephan Olbertz Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 11:53 An: l...@cs.dartmouth.edu Betreff: [LUTE] Professorship in Cologne Hi all, this is to inform you that the Cologne Musikhochschule is looking for a new lute professor (50 %) in succession to Konrad Junghänel. Application ends on January the 15. Please spread the word to your worldclass friends... Best regards Stephan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Professorship in Cologne
Hi all, this is to inform you that the Cologne Musikhochschule is looking for a new lute professor (50 %) in succession to Konrad Junghänel. Application ends on January the 15. Please spread the word to your worldclass friends... Best regards Stephan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[BAROQUE-LUTE] WG: Professorship in Cologne
Von: Stephan Olbertz [mailto:stephan.olbe...@web.de] Gesendet: Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2017 11:53 An: 'l...@cs.dartmouth.edu' Betreff: Professorship in Cologne Hi all, this is to inform you that the Cologne Musikhochschule is looking for a new lute professor (50 %) in succession to Konrad Junghänel. Application ends on January the 15. Please spread the word to your worldclass friends... Best regards Stephan -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Rewarding Renaissance Lute repertoire
Since we're talking about Newsidler: Yes, his books are ideal for learning to read German tablature because the letters are very clear and distinct and he only introduces a few symbols at a time. Many of the German Tenorlieder are frustrating because they have these huge gaps between sections - perhaps we should improvise some twiddly bits to fill the gaps? You can find some nice music (56 pieces) from German prints (in French tab) in my anthology "Renaissance Lute Music from German Sources" published by the Lute Society in 2000 (http://www.lutesociety.org/pages/catalogue#b). Martin On 07/12/2017 08:04, Tristan von Neumann wrote: Well then, you are lucky! Deciphering obscure German Tabs is one of my next projects. I'm running out of new music, so this would be the way to go, and as a side effect, I might even learn to play from those tabs. I plan to transcribe with lute in hand. Does anyone have any insight into which German tab books are most desired as transcriptions? I prefer German song intabulations to French chansons. Italian Madrigals are ok. Most welcome of course are interesting Fantasies and groovy dances. Am 07.12.2017 um 01:44 schrieb G. C.: So, Hans Newsidler seems to be a good place to begin, judging from the many manuscript copies that were made of his books. He not only was an early Renaissance lutenist, but had a didactic flair which caught on and demonstrably also worked. (Both his sons Conrad and Melchior became outstanding lutenists, especially Melchior). German tablature is also made approachable for a modern player through his easy pieces. There is a wealth of (often quite virtuosic) music available in the many German tablature manuscripts, which have not yet been sufficiently researched and are still awaiting academic and performer discovery. G. On Thu, Dec 7, 2017 at 1:15 AM, Tristan von Neumann <[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote: THanks G., I own the Poulton Lute Book, also I browse regularly through Sarge Gerbode's site. I have harvested literally 1000s of pieces now... But you never know what's out there, so that's why I asked, and also to see what people think is on the easy to intermediate side. Hans Neusiedler is really really good though, I practically learned to play the lute with his pieces. -- References 1. mailto:tristanvonneum...@gmx.de To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus
[LUTE] Re: Mus.Hs.17706 Sammlung von Lautentabulaturen von verschiedenen Komponisten
As always a look to the lute music data base by Peter Steur and me: mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1=ms=A-Wn17706 can be helpful. The theorbo pieces start here: http://mss.slweiss.de/index.php?id=1=ms=A-Wn17706=90 If someone has concordances, we always are thankful for support and corrections. Best regards Markus Am 07.12.2017 um 09:33 schrieb Matthew Daillie: Oh dear, I am the guilty party I'm afraid! I asked David for help in finding an efficient way of downloading the whole manuscript from the Austrian National Library in Vienna but I didn't expect him to be so kind as to do all the donkey work (yet again!). Many thanks David. The end of the book (which was reversed to start afresh) contains some interesting theorbo pieces by Bartolotti, beautifully written out in a very clear hand and certainly worth playing through (there is a modern edition of these works by Massimo Moscardo published by the Société française de luth but which contains errors). The library provides a link to a list of contents, which includes a number of works for baroque lute by such illustrious French composers as Gallot, Dufeaux (sic) and Denis Gaultier (but which I haven't had time to look at yet). Best, Matthew On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:08, David Smithwrote: I received a request recently about this manuscript and went ahead and downloaded it. There are a LOT of blank pages and the theorbo parts start at the end, upside down, and come forward. I have posted two versions. The first is the complete download as posted on the Österreichische Nationalbibliothek web page. The other is without the blank pages and the theorbo parts rotated and put into the correct order. There is a blank page between the two. It can be found at: [1]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ I hope this is useful to someone. Regards David Smith -- References 1. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- Markus Lutz Schulstraße 11 88422 Bad Buchau Tel 0 75 82 / 92 62 89 Fax 0 75 82 / 92 62 90 Mail mar...@gmlutz.de
[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: help with translating French titles
Hi David, I think this is more a question of social and historical context than of translation. The CNRS edition of the works of Mouton gives possible explanations for a number of the subtitles of the pieces, inspired by his encounters in the Parisian salons. I can scan the relevant pages and send them to you off-list if you're interested. Best, Matthew > On Dec 7, 2017, at 7:47, David van Ooijenwrote: > > Before I start making mistakes with my poor French, or overlook > anything (not so) obvious, can the collected wisdom help me translate > these titles of pieces by Gaultier and Mouton, and possibly shed some > light on the quirkiness of some of them? How is Languedoc connected > with la pompe funèbre, or a bucentaure, what is so deliberée about > that courante, do we know which Madame and Belle Danceuse he was > writing for, It's for programme notes, so any extra info is > welcome. > Gaultier: > Allemande, le languetock ou la Pompe funèbre ou bien le Bucentaure > Mouton: > La Deliberée Courant > La Bergère Sarabande > La Libertine Canarie > La belle Espagnole Chaconne > Tomeau de Madame, Pavane > La belle Danceuse, Gavotte > A grande merci in advance > David > *** > David van Ooijen > [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com > [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl > *** > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com > 2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Re: Mus.Hs.17706 Sammlung von Lautentabulaturen von verschiedenen Komponisten
Oh dear, I am the guilty party I'm afraid! I asked David for help in finding an efficient way of downloading the whole manuscript from the Austrian National Library in Vienna but I didn't expect him to be so kind as to do all the donkey work (yet again!). Many thanks David. The end of the book (which was reversed to start afresh) contains some interesting theorbo pieces by Bartolotti, beautifully written out in a very clear hand and certainly worth playing through (there is a modern edition of these works by Massimo Moscardo published by the Société française de luth but which contains errors). The library provides a link to a list of contents, which includes a number of works for baroque lute by such illustrious French composers as Gallot, Dufeaux (sic) and Denis Gaultier (but which I haven't had time to look at yet). Best, Matthew > On Dec 7, 2017, at 9:08, David Smithwrote: > > I received a request recently about this manuscript and went ahead and > downloaded it. There are a LOT of blank pages and the theorbo parts > start at the end, upside down, and come forward. I have posted two > versions. The first is the complete download as posted on the > Österreichische Nationalbibliothek web page. The other is without the > blank pages and the theorbo parts rotated and put into the correct > order. There is a blank page between the two. > > > It can be found at: [1]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ > > > I hope this is useful to someone. > > > Regards > > David Smith > > -- > > References > > 1. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[LUTE] Mus.Hs.17706 Sammlung von Lautentabulaturen von verschiedenen Komponisten
I received a request recently about this manuscript and went ahead and downloaded it. There are a LOT of blank pages and the theorbo parts start at the end, upside down, and come forward. I have posted two versions. The first is the complete download as posted on the Ãsterreichische Nationalbibliothek web page. The other is without the blank pages and the theorbo parts rotated and put into the correct order. There is a blank page between the two. It can be found at: [1]http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ I hope this is useful to someone. Regards David Smith -- References 1. http://www.dolcesfogato.com/Music/ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html