[LUTE] Full circle

[Roman Turovsky]

   Recently there has seen some remarkable developments: some Ukrainian
   musicians have discovered my Ukro-centric music, and started to adopt
   it and adapt it to the Ukrainian diatonic zither/psaltery, AKA the
   Bandura:

   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywW8txYy8gE
   [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pSg2hXqFfg
   [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNeFS1uoi5Q
   [4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1V1aWRfYa8

   It only took 25 years!
   Enjoy!
   Met vriendelijke groeten!
   RT
   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ywW8txYy8gE
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pSg2hXqFfg
   3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNeFS1uoi5Q
   4. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1V1aWRfYa8


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[LUTE] Re: future of the lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Better than Hollywood, we already have an indie classic
by Jim Jarmusch, featuring a lute soundtrack, and the film opens
with a prominent shot of a Michael Schreiner 10course.
RT

On 8/26/2020 8:13 PM, theoj89...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:

Dear luters:
What does the future hold the lute?
In the waning days of this wonderful email list (Thanks Wayne!!), I
thought I would invite thoughts regarding the future of the lute and
the lute community. As I muse, it seems that this present lute revival
started in 1960's - 70's largely out of the folk music revival and
early music revival. I notice that many of our fellow lute enthusiasts
are growing older (as am I). And with the recent passing of Julian
Bream, I thought it prescient to reflect:
What will the next 10, 20, or 50 years look like for the lute and lute
community?
Is interest in the lute on the decline, ascendency, or moving in some
other direction?
Is this trajectory different in different countries?
The internet has revolutionized access to manuscripts, publishers, and
recordings. Will the internet ultimately drive interest to diversions
other than the lute?
And when will Hollywood finally make a sizzling historical romance
about a lute player and bring the lute back to be a symbol of
seduction, as it should be? (Hopefully the movie won't be about Mark
Smeaton.)
Thoughts?
theodore jordan

--


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[LUTE] Cantio Lodomerica CVIII

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]https://youtu.be/EvqQQeYfEX0 - with Scott Saari!
   [2]http://torban.org/lodomericae/images/552.pdf

   Amities,
   RT
   --

References

   1. 
https://youtu.be/EvqQQeYfEX0?fbclid=IwAR0TUY7r-t5HAscXe65cCaYmOpkOZEpfZWvRvsq-8sz7i15szpRP__EDHWw
   2. http://torban.org/lodomericae/images/552.pdf


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[LUTE] Re: Lute strap

[Roman Turovsky]

And Pat strongly advocated playing standing up,
with the lute close to one's chin.
He also emphatically recommended looping the strap
around a couple of pegs on the treble side of the pegbox:
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/images/strap.jpg
to prevent one's lute from facing the ceiling.
RT

On 5/24/2020 3:04 PM, Leonard Williams wrote:

Disclaimer--I am a largely self-taught (with tips from this list!),
falteringly intermediate player.  I use strap, footstool and shelf
liner.  I enjoy playing, while mindfully trying to approximate
recognized proper technique.
   It seems that what has taken me the longest time to get right (or
nearly so) is the balance of comfort, security, and accessibility for
right and left hands.  As we are all built to different proportions and
agility, my conclusion is that there is no single right physical
approach to the lute; one needs simply to pay attention to what's
happening between the body and the instrument.  A good teacher who can
"read" your body language while playing would be very helpful (Pat
O'Brien could do this kind of thing).
(here ends this 2 cents worth)
Regards,
Leonard Williams
-Original Message-
From: Jurgen Frenz 
To: Leonard Williams 
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Sent: Sun, May 24, 2020 8:06 am
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
I find the strap discussion quite interesting especially what Leonhard
Williams just said - it reminds me (and everybody who likes to think
about his/her playing) that the simple position we sit down and hold
the instrument has quite an impact on our playing. As often, there is
no "rule" except that everybody has to figure out how it's real
comfortable to play. I strongly believe that the instrument has to sit
there without any additional effort to hold it, one needs to figure out
how that exactly can be achieved.
Good luck!
âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
On Saturday, May 23, 2020 11:45 PM, Leonard Williams
<[1]arc...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
> Yes--the shelf liner material works very nicely to de-grease the
piggy!
> I actually use a footstool on the right to get the lute up a little
> higher (thigh under the widest point). Can't say it's improved my
> playing, however.
> Leonard Williams
> -Original Message-
> From: John Mardinly [2]john.mardi...@asu.edu
> To: howard posner [3]howardpos...@ca.rr.com; Lute List
> [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
> Sent: Sat, May 23, 2020 2:47 pm
> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Lute strap
> I've been playing without a strap since 1970. However, I must admit
> that holding the lute is a bit like holding a greased pig. What works
> for me now is rubberized shelf liner:
>
[1][5]https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LWAPOO1/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?psc=1
d_r
>
d_i=B01LWAPOO1_rd_w=kPNRm_rd_p=48d372c1-f7e1-4b8b-9d02-4bd86f5158
>
c5_rd_wg=FAgbm_rd_r=6BF0CZFPTPEJ3V0B4C0J_rd_r=b4cc3dc9-fcdd-4e
>
91-871f-3a45b2ca6f75=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyQlpFOVExWUNKOFBTJ
>
mVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMzAxNTgzMVdHTVVXMjg5QjlLUiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzkz
>
MDU1NFFLQzJMQzQzRVIzJndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGl
> yZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
> Cut out a 15'x15' piece for each thigh, and use a footstool for the
> left leg like guitarists use. The lute is then fairly stable. Makes a
> guitar a bit more stable also. $5 buys enough to last a lifetime.
> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
> Classical Guitarist/Lutenist
>
> > On May 22, 2020, at 4:16 PM, howard posner
>
> <[2][6]howardpos...@ca.rr.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > > On May 22, 2020, at 7:19 AM, Christopher Stetson
>
> <[3][7]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > >
>
> > > Hi, all. I've been playing without a strap since 1974. It is
>
> possible.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: Ah. Look, the statue. How do get the cup bit to stay where
it
>
> is, unsupported?
>
> >
>
> > Wise Old Bird: It stays there because it's artistically right.
>
> >
>
> > Arthur: What?
>
> >
>
> > WOB: The Law of Gravity isn't as indiscriminate as people often
>
> think. You learn things like that when you're a bird.
>
> >
>
> > --Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (original radio script) Fit the
>
> Tenth
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > To get on or off this list see list information at
>
> >
>
>
[4][8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
uth
>
.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
>
1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=T0D
>
BLPWi-JsEl3u9ihtW2Cu9gVo3NkkKh4as-2CmlkM=7riCOmG8O7h8gdO6D70sBjwmU8mI

[LUTE] Cantio Sarmatoruthenica 44 with Scott Saari

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]https://youtu.be/v0b03Dw1Jtc

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   --

References

   1. 
https://youtu.be/v0b03Dw1Jtc?fbclid=IwAR0iTp-DxlM2d6myojI2WfjTG3ZhC1Z5wC1VvMkjtxP_SHFBcjaOeQo-AHk


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Passacaglia

[Roman Turovsky]

   With Sergio Pes -
   [1]https://youtu.be/aXU-f_Pq-tc
   With Daniel Estrem -
   [2]https://youtu.be/IUu1ANBiL90

   Amities,
   RT

   On 3/24/2020 1:58 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

[3]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.mp3
[4]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.pdf
Passacaglia Super Thema Regium Vermiculum,  for your perusal and delectation in
tempora plagae!
Enjoy!
RT
===[5]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.

   --

References

   1. 
https://youtu.be/aXU-f_Pq-tc?fbclid=IwAR3WoLJ9Kyrm8ZDKSEYgEtreLro4H06wkUih-t0zWIEAv7TjtBeUeQI8EQc
   2. 
https://youtu.be/IUu1ANBiL90?fbclid=IwAR2rLxTdBHqGwvDRbmSrohkPk7QEke96AoaH_CnNIkZR7-i1MKWF_90x9wg
   3. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.mp3
   4. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.pdf
   5. http://turovsky.org/


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Passacaglia

[Roman Turovsky]

[1]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.mp3
[2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.pdf
Passacaglia Super Thema Regium Vermiculum,  for your perusal and delectation in
tempora plagae!
Enjoy!
RT
===[3]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.

   --

References

   1. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.mp3
   2. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ostinato/epitaph-passacaglia.pdf
   3. http://turovsky.org/


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[LUTE] Cantio Lodomerica 101

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]http://torban.org/lodomericae/audio/545.mp3
   [2]http://torban.org/lodomericae/images/545.pdf

   This is a setting of a traditional salt-merchant lament, pilfered from
   a recording by
   a great Ukrainian avantgarde singer Yuri Yosyfovych:
   [3]https://youtu.be/KBTBJiI46xs

   About the salt-merchants: [4]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumak
   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   --

References

   1. 
http://torban.org/lodomericae/audio/545.mp3?fbclid=IwAR0LqYwYH7-dvGu9xjO1OPojXGOJF-2Us4k6fWds_NsLUo3YMrQWEwOUKDk
   2. 
http://torban.org/lodomericae/images/545.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0C9LwxdQ1rH6xi0C_kCwdHZG59XaV1V1OLSu3ACjpH73ckTTEq37fsr7A
   3. https://youtu.be/KBTBJiI46xs
   4. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chumak


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] SLW typesets

[Roman Turovsky]

Dear collective wisdom,
What ever happened to the J.D.Forget's Weiss typesets?

RT



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[LUTE] Re: A historical Ukrainian ballad for Theorbo

[Roman Turovsky]

Premiered by Francesco Motta! -
https://youtu.be/GUpC2dSz2X4

Amities,
RT

On 12/29/2019 9:58 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

[1]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.mp3
[2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.pdf

Still warm, for your perusal and delectation!
Met vriendelijke groeten,

RT

--

References

1. 
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.mp3?fbclid=IwAR0AjlF-6D5dhw5TuAwijQBCIytzh1lby8SePCYkoPzP1zMfX761S-EO_MI
2. 
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1xd1Q-_-5oHdtFAhW4VfFj_uPh29rWf8aXys6Aw_pjDdhq3TSA3TtZg90


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[LUTE] Re: Milan's name

[Roman Turovsky]

Because they lend credence to alternatives of Antonio's postulates!)))
RT

On 1/6/2020 12:34 PM, Mathias Rösel wrote:

Why is that? Let others do as they please. I should only be curious why
they did so.
Mathias
  __

Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
--- Original-Nachricht ---
Von: r.turov...@gmail.com
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name
Datum: 06.01.2020, 18:06 Uhr
An: Mathias Rösel
Cc: Lutelist

Someone should send a cease order to Jordi Savall and all the
other performers who put De Mila'n on their CDs!
RT

[2]http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
> On Jan 6, 2020, at 11:08 AM, Mathias Rösel
<[3]mathias.roe...@t-online.de> wrote:
>
>  Dear Antonio,
> please rest assured, no more evidence is demanded. Don Luis Milan was
> and is his name, and he's not from Milano.
> They're making fun of it, or so is my impression.
> Mathias
> __
>
> Gesendet mit der [1]Telekom Mail App
> --- Original-Nachricht ---
> Von: Jurgen Frenz
> Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Milan's name
> Datum: 06.01.2020, 15:17 Uhr
> An: Antonio Corona
> Cc: [4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
>
> Here is the collection of names for Seà ±or Luys from the online
> Petrucci library, for what it's worth:
> ï ¼
> Alternative Names/Transliterations: Millà ¡n, Luys Milan, Luis de
> Milà ¡n, LluÃs del MilÃ
> ï ¼
> Name in Other Languages: Luis de Milà ¡n, 㠫㠤㠹ã 
»Ã£Ã£ »Ã£Ã£
©Ã£ ³, LluÃs del
> Milà , Ãà ¸Ã »Ã °Ã ½, ÃÃà ¸Ã à ´Ã µ, ÃÃÃà ³ à 
¯Ã ÃÃÃà §Ã
> ï ¼
> Aliases: Luis de Milan, Luys de Milan, Luys de Milà ¡n, LluÃs Milà ,
> Lluis Mila, Luis Milan, Lluis Milà , LluÃs Mila, LluÃs de Milà , Luys
> Milà ¡n
> --
> "Close your eyes. Fall in love. Stay there."
> JalÃl ad-DÃ «n Muhammad Rumi
> âââââââ Original Message âââââââ
>> On Monday, January 6, 2020 6:41 AM, Antonio Corona
>> <[2][5]abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:
>> A couple more:
>>
>> Juan Timoneda, Rosas de romances (1573): Don Luys Milan
>>
>> Bartolomà © de Villalba y Estaà ±a, El pelegrino curioso ... (1577):
> Don Luys Milan
>>
>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2020, 19:24:07 GMT-6, Antonio Corona
>> [3][6]abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:
>>
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> Luis Milà ¡n, Libro de motes (1535): Don Luys Milan
>>
>> Luis Milà ¡n, El Maestro (1535-36): Luys Milan
>>
>> Luis Milà ¡n, El cortesano (1561): Don Luys Milan
>>
>> Juan Fernà ¡ndez de Heredia, Las obras ... (1562): Don Luys Milan
>>
>> Gaspar Gil Polo, Diana enamorada (1564): Don Luys Milan
>>
>> Best wishes,
>> Antonio
>>
>>> On Sunday, 5 January 2020, 14:26:06 GMT-6, Joachim LÃ ¼dtke
>> [4][7]jo.lued...@t-online.de wrote:
>>
>> In El Cortesano it's Don Luys Milan â ¦ I am not a home for the
next
> few days, but if anyone has the Facsimile of El Maestro published by
> the Sociedad de la Vihuela a few years ago, he or she could look into
> the commentary and see if there is any evidence mentioned for MilÃ
¡n,
> de Milà ¡n or similar.
>>
>> Best
>>
>> Joachim
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [5][8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> --
>
> References
>
> 1.
[9]https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_androi
d_sendmail_footer
> 2. mailto:[10]abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
> 3. mailto:[11]abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
> 4. mailto:[12]jo.lued...@t-online.de
> 5. [13]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
--

References

1. 
https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
2. http://turovsky.org/
3. mailto:mathias.roe...@t-online.de
4. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
5. mailto:abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
7. mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
9. 
https://kommunikationsdienste.t-online.de/redirects/email_app_android_sendmail_footer
   10. mailto:abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   11. mailto:abcor...@mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
   12. mailto:jo.lued...@t-online.de
   13. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?

[Roman Turovsky]

All of Jordi Savall's CDs have him as De M.
RT

On 1/5/2020 12:24 PM, Joachim Lüdtke wrote:

The title page of the Libro de motes … has Luys Milan too

I have not seen El Cortesano for quite a while …

All best

Joachim


-Original-Nachricht-
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?
Datum: 2020-01-05T10:13:43+0100
Von: "Albert Reyerman" 
An: "Tristan von Neumann" , "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" 


Wrong, Tristan.

The only source we have with his name given
is EL MAESTRO.
Here his name is prited Luys Milan (sic)
No apostroph.

Regards
Albert

TREE  EDITION
Albert Reyerman
Finkenberg 89
23558 Luebeck
Germany

albertreyer...@kabelmail.de
www.tree-edition.com
0451 899 78 48
---
Fine Art Paintings
Anke Reyerman
www.anke-reyerman.de

Am 04.01.2020 um 20:02 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:

May I just add something outrageous:


This guy is literally called "Milán". How sure are we that he's not of
Italian origin?


On 04.01.20 19:59, Antonio Corona wrote:

Dear Ron,

Thank you for your kind words. Again, I think we should be wary of
speculations where the known facts points in another direction. While
there is indeed a possibility of Italian influence in Milán,
especially considering that the viceroy of Valencia was Ferdinand of
Aragón, Duke of Calabria, I still believe that putting together Milán
and Verdelot is pushing the evidence too far merely on the basis of a
vague possibility (which I cannot share -the dates of their
publications suggest otherwise); on the other hand, we have no way of
knowing how much influence Castiglione's book might have had on
Milán: at least there is none to be found in his own Cortesano. In my
view all the arguments in favour of an Italian direct musical
influence on Milán remain purely speculative.  I cannot give credence
to them.

On the other hand, resorting to the contents of Valderrábano and
Fuenllana is, again, misleading. Both vihuelists belong to a later
phase and school (I call it Castilian as opposed to the earlier
Valencian) and should not be used as a basis for comparison. The mere
fact that both included a large amount of intabulations as opposed to
the contents of El Maestro -where there are none-, not to mention the
altogether different style of their fantasias, as well as the fact
that both Valderrábano and Fuenllana were professional musicians at
the service of nobility, whereas Milán was an amateur (probably a
member of the lesser nobility as suggested by the "Don"), their
"nationality": Castilian versus Valencian, and even the type of
tablature they used should put us on our guard against a direct
comparison and therefore considering them on the same category.

I´m afraid that I shall need more solid evidence to convince me that
Milan used the music of Verdelot (or any of the other great composers
intabulated by later vihuelists) as a model or otherwise for his own
music. As it stands now, I must stress it again, such a suggestion is
firmly rooted on speculation and nothing more.

Best wishes,
Antonio






   On Saturday, 4 January 2020, 09:19:07 GMT-6, Ron Andrico
 wrote:





     Thanks, Antonio.  I must say it is heartwarming to know you are
such a
    champion for the music of Milan.  I appreciate his role as a
pioneer in
    Spanish instrumental music and as an advocate of the viheula and its
    significance in courtly life.  But I don't think it is much of a
    speculation to say that he was influenced by Italian examples,
    including Verdelot's madrigals and Castiglione's much earlier example
    of a guide to courtly custom.  I think if you'll examine the large
    amount of intabulated polyphony found in the books of Fuenllana
(1552)
    and Valderrabano (1547), both of which contain several
intabulations of
    music by Verdelot, as well as Arcadelt, Compere, Gombert, Josquin,
    Mouton, Sermisy and Willaert, you must admit there is a chance Milan
    had access to examples for his instrumental settings.

    RA
__

    From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
     on behalf of Antonio Corona
    
    Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2020 9:21 AM
    To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?

    Oops ... a mistake.
    In the paragraph wich reads:
    Milán`s El Cortesano is an account of his life at the viceregal court
    of the Duke of Calabria and Germaine de Foix at Valencia: it has
little
    in common with Casteglione's work which, incidentally, was
published in
    a Spanish translation by Juan Boscán in 1534 - the same year in which
    the work for publishing El Maestro began. We do not know at what time
    Milan might have learned of it, but his Cortesano was published in
    1561, a long time after.
    The part which states "in 1534 - the same year in which the work for
    publishing El Maestro began." should be ignored (the correct date is
    1535).
    Best wishes,
    Antonio
    To get on or off this list see list 

[LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?

[Roman Turovsky]

Interestingly there are only about a dozen Milans in the whole province 
of Valencia, some with the accent on A,

some without.
I certainly wouldn't rule out Italian extraction for the character in 
question.


The whole argument reminds me of an old epigram:

"Seven cities argue over Homer's citizenship.
He was a beggar in all seven of these!"

RT


On 1/5/2020 10:51 AM, Lex van Sante wrote:

Lluis del Milà is the the name in Catalan. In Castiliano the name is Luys (or 
alternatively Luis) Milan.
Cheers!
Lex

Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone


Op 5 jan. 2020 om 14:17 heeft r.turov...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven:

How come is he also known as Luis de Milan and Lluis del Mila’?
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Jan 5, 2020, at 4:16 AM, Albert Reyerman  wrote:

Wrong, Tristan.

The only source we have with his name given
is EL MAESTRO.
Here his name is prited Luys Milan (sic)
No apostroph.

Regards
Albert

TREE  EDITION
Albert Reyerman
Finkenberg 89
23558 Luebeck
Germany

albertreyer...@kabelmail.de
www.tree-edition.com
0451 899 78 48
---
Fine Art Paintings
Anke Reyerman
www.anke-reyerman.de


Am 04.01.2020 um 20:02 schrieb Tristan von Neumann:

May I just add something outrageous:


This guy is literally called "Milán". How sure are we that he's not of
Italian origin?



On 04.01.20 19:59, Antonio Corona wrote:
Dear Ron,

Thank you for your kind words. Again, I think we should be wary of speculations 
where the known facts points in another direction. While there is indeed a 
possibility of Italian influence in Milán, especially considering that the 
viceroy of Valencia was Ferdinand of Aragón, Duke of Calabria, I still believe 
that putting together Milán and Verdelot is pushing the evidence too far merely 
on the basis of a vague possibility (which I cannot share -the dates of their 
publications suggest otherwise); on the other hand, we have no way of knowing 
how much influence Castiglione's book might have had on Milán: at least there 
is none to be found in his own Cortesano. In my view all the arguments in 
favour of an Italian direct musical influence on Milán remain purely 
speculative.  I cannot give credence to them.

On the other hand, resorting to the contents of Valderrábano and Fuenllana is, again, misleading. 
Both vihuelists belong to a later phase and school (I call it Castilian as opposed to the earlier 
Valencian) and should not be used as a basis for comparison. The mere fact that both included a 
large amount of intabulations as opposed to the contents of El Maestro -where there are none-, not 
to mention the altogether different style of their fantasias, as well as the fact that both 
Valderrábano and Fuenllana were professional musicians at the service of nobility, whereas Milán 
was an amateur (probably a member of the lesser nobility as suggested by the "Don"), 
their "nationality": Castilian versus Valencian, and even the type of tablature they used 
should put us on our guard against a direct comparison and therefore considering them on the same 
category.

I´m afraid that I shall need more solid evidence to convince me that Milan used 
the music of Verdelot (or any of the other great composers intabulated by later 
vihuelists) as a model or otherwise for his own music. As it stands now, I must 
stress it again, such a suggestion is firmly rooted on speculation and nothing 
more.

Best wishes,
Antonio







  On Saturday, 4 January 2020, 09:19:07 GMT-6, Ron Andrico 
 wrote:





Thanks, Antonio.  I must say it is heartwarming to know you are such a
   champion for the music of Milan.  I appreciate his role as a pioneer in
   Spanish instrumental music and as an advocate of the viheula and its
   significance in courtly life.  But I don't think it is much of a
   speculation to say that he was influenced by Italian examples,
   including Verdelot's madrigals and Castiglione's much earlier example
   of a guide to courtly custom.  I think if you'll examine the large
   amount of intabulated polyphony found in the books of Fuenllana (1552)
   and Valderrabano (1547), both of which contain several intabulations of
   music by Verdelot, as well as Arcadelt, Compere, Gombert, Josquin,
   Mouton, Sermisy and Willaert, you must admit there is a chance Milan
   had access to examples for his instrumental settings.

   RA
__

   From: lute-...@new-old-mail.cs.dartmouth.edu
on behalf of Antonio Corona
   
   Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2020 9:21 AM
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Portuguese Lute Music anyone?

   Oops ... a mistake.
   In the paragraph wich reads:
   Milán`s El Cortesano is an account of his life at the viceregal court
   of the Duke of Calabria and Germaine de Foix at Valencia: it has little
   in common with Casteglione's work which, incidentally, was published in
   a Spanish translation by Juan Boscán in 1534 - the same year in 

[LUTE] A historical Ukrainian ballad for Theorbo

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.mp3
   [2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.pdf

   Still warm, for your perusal and delectation!
   Met vriendelijke groeten,

   RT

   --

References

   1. 
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.mp3?fbclid=IwAR0AjlF-6D5dhw5TuAwijQBCIytzh1lby8SePCYkoPzP1zMfX761S-EO_MI
   2. 
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/guktheorbo-E.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1xd1Q-_-5oHdtFAhW4VfFj_uPh29rWf8aXys6Aw_pjDdhq3TSA3TtZg90


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[LUTE] Re: Qui est l'heureux luthiste?

[Roman Turovsky]

Eduardo Eguez.
RT

On 12/3/2019 8:42 PM, Alain Veylit wrote:

Who is the lucky lutenist in this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3U1KVXku_o




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[LUTE] Re: Melchior Newsidler's portrait, again

[Roman Turovsky]

I have a 50 year experience in visual arts, so...
Stylistically is absolutely post-1600.
It is also worth looking at such material culture elements as clothing,
same anachronism.
RT

On 11/10/2019 11:50 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

You just repeated yourself...

You cannot say "is from the 1600s" for what you perceive as a style,
without any explanation...


:)

T*




On 11.11.19 04:41, Roman Turovsky wrote:

Neusiedler was Cranach the Younger's contemporary.
The portrait in question stylistically is from the 1600's.
It also doesn't look look German.
RT

On 11/10/2019 3:20 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Roman, what is your rationale for your stylistic argument?




On 10.11.19 20:04, Roman Turovsky wrote:

What is the rationale for ascribing the sitter to be Neusiedler?
The painting stylistically at least a generation later than the
Neusiedler's life dates.
RT



On 11/10/2019 11:03 AM, Wayne Cripps wrote:


I posted Arthur’s picture of Melchior Newsidler at

https://home.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-old/MN_OsloJ3.jpg

    Wayne



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[LUTE] Re: Melchior Newsidler's portrait, again

[Roman Turovsky]

Neusiedler was Cranach the Younger's contemporary.
The portrait in question stylistically is from the 1600's.
It also doesn't look look German.
RT

On 11/10/2019 3:20 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Roman, what is your rationale for your stylistic argument?




On 10.11.19 20:04, Roman Turovsky wrote:

What is the rationale for ascribing the sitter to be Neusiedler?
The painting stylistically at least a generation later than the
Neusiedler's life dates.
RT



On 11/10/2019 11:03 AM, Wayne Cripps wrote:


I posted Arthur’s picture of Melchior Newsidler at

https://home.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-old/MN_OsloJ3.jpg

    Wayne



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Melchior Newsidler's portrait, again

[Roman Turovsky]

What is the rationale for ascribing the sitter to be Neusiedler?
The painting stylistically at least a generation later than the 
Neusiedler's life dates.

RT



On 11/10/2019 11:03 AM, Wayne Cripps wrote:


I posted Arthur’s picture of Melchior Newsidler at

https://home.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-old/MN_OsloJ3.jpg

Wayne



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[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Roman Turovsky]

sometimes even with bagpipes.

RT

On 7/22/2019 1:59 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

Citterns play in only 2 keys, and hardly ever with other instruments.
so it is not a problem there.
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Jul 22, 2019, at 10:47 AM, David van Ooijen  wrote:

   Fixed fretted instrument had some sort of MT. Citerns with an
   approximation 1/6 comma MT come to mind. That's not a modern
   interpretation or an awkward stretch.


   on.   There survive some historical discussions of lute

 fretting but the

   language is unclear or otherwise flawed.   A sideways

 application of

   modern interpretations of keyboard temperaments to the lute and

 fretted

   viol is a bit of an awkward stretch.

   --

   ***
   David van Ooijen
   [1]davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   [2]www.davidvanooijen.nl
   ***

   --

References

   1. mailto:davidvanooi...@gmail.com
   2. http://www.davidvanooijen.nl/


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[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Roman Turovsky]

Not all tastes are created equal.
RT 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 20, 2019, at 11:34 AM, Tristan von Neumann  
> wrote:
> 
> Roman, "insufferable" temperament does not exist.
> 
> All temperaments are an acquired taste - otherwise you would (and some
> people surely did) think the music of Arabia insufferable with its 3/4
> tones.
> 
> Or Gamelan ensembles consisting of instruments left to rot and detune
> deliberately because it reflects the age of the instrument.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 20.07.19 16:45, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
>> It is a lot more harrowing to hear the minor 3rds that are too wide, 
>> resulting from various masochistic temperaments.
>> 
>> And the use of the latter in music that contains chromaticism is simply 
>> insufferable.
>> RT
>> 
>> 
>> http://turovsky.org
>> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
>> 
>>> On Jul 20, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Matthew Daillie  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> It has been well-documented that the instructions published by Robert 
>>> Dowland in the Varietie of Lute Lessons are critically flawed (see Lindley 
>>> pp. 81-83).
>>> 
>>> It is highly probable that something close to equal temperament was used 
>>> during the renaissance period but so were several variants of meantone 
>>> temperament. The latter favours pure major thirds and creates major and 
>>> minor semitones with far more character than equal temperament, notably for 
>>> the many chromatic passages prevalent in renaissance music. I think a 
>>> deeper understanding of temperaments is a prerequisite for playing early 
>>> music and much can be learned by looking at how other instruments were 
>>> tuned. 1/4 comma meantone was clearly used on early keyboards and it would 
>>> be pretty unthinkable today to listen to a performance of 16th century 
>>> Italian music or the English virginalists in equal temperament (obviously 
>>> as we move into the baroque period, circulating temperaments were adopted 
>>> that favoured purer fifths rather than pure major thirds).
>>> 
>>> When one gets used to playing a piece in 1/4 comma meantone with its pure, 
>>> beatless major thirds, it can be quite a harrowing experience to go back to 
>>> equal temperament as one is conscious of just how much crucial intervals 
>>> beat and everything appears to be out of tune. It is not necessarily easy 
>>> to adapt meantone successfully to the lute, but it can be done with time 
>>> and careful adjustments of frets and the addition of tastini. 1/5 comma 
>>> meantone is quite popular amongst major lutenists and although the thirds 
>>> are no longer pure, it does impart far more character than equal 
>>> temperament and does not require such extreme fret placement (which can be 
>>> particularly uncomfortable on the short string length of a lute in a', for 
>>> example). If one has access to an early keyboard and the help of an 
>>> experienced player, it can be easier to appreciate the fundamentals of 
>>> various temperaments than on the lute (metal strings facilitate the 
>>> detection of beatless intervals).
>>> 
>>> Rather than being a daunting prospect, the use of meantone temperaments on 
>>> the lute can add further enjoyment to one's playing and enrich our musical 
>>> world.
>>> 
>>> Best,
>>> 
>>> Matthew
>>> 
>>> 
 Le 20 juil. 2019 à 13:22, Ron Andrico  a écrit :
 
  Tristan, the various alternative temperaments may sound nice for a
  narrow repertory with the excepted odd note, but musicians who
  understand music and who explore the more interesting repertory for
  lute follow the precepts of Galilei, which approximates equal
  temperament.
 
  RA
__
 
  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
  of Tristan von Neumann 
  Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 4:04 PM
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
  Subject: [LUTE] Lute Temperaments
 
  I know this is a wide topic...
  Today, I changed my fret setup from Gerle to Dowland (Thanks to Mr.
  Niskanen and his marvellous calculator), because I mostly play later
  16th century music.
  It sounds somewhat "brighter" in the keys preferred then.
  Maybe I will also try what Galilei recommended.
  Which one did you try and which one do you prefer (for solo playing).
  What are your thoughts on character vs. versatility?
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
  --
 
 References
 
  1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
> 
> 

[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Roman Turovsky]

Minor thirds get compromised, so
RT

On 7/20/2019 12:55 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

??

Le 20 juil. 2019 à 18:45, Roman Turovsky  a écrit :


I'm referring to the minor thirds in MT that that nauseously sound more neutral 
than minor.
RT





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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Roman Turovsky]

I'm referring to the minor thirds in MT that that nauseously sound more 
neutral than minor.

RT

On 7/20/2019 12:35 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

Yes, there are minor thirds in 1/4 comma meantone that are wider than in equal 
temperament and so closer to pure (they beat less)! Minor thirds in equal 
temperament are more than 15 cents narrower than pure.

Maybe you were referring to augmented seconds (in meantone, enharmonic 
accidentals are no longer the same). Obviously one has to choose between, say, 
a D# and an Eb (unless you have a keyboard with split accidentals).

Best,
Matthew

Le 20 juil. 2019 à 16:45, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :


It is a lot more harrowing to hear the minor 3rds that are too wide, resulting 
from various masochistic temperaments.

And the use of the latter in music that contains chromaticism is simply 
insufferable.
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Jul 20, 2019, at 10:28 AM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:

It has been well-documented that the instructions published by Robert Dowland 
in the Varietie of Lute Lessons are critically flawed (see Lindley pp. 81-83).

It is highly probable that something close to equal temperament was used during 
the renaissance period but so were several variants of meantone temperament. 
The latter favours pure major thirds and creates major and minor semitones with 
far more character than equal temperament, notably for the many chromatic 
passages prevalent in renaissance music. I think a deeper understanding of 
temperaments is a prerequisite for playing early music and much can be learned 
by looking at how other instruments were tuned. 1/4 comma meantone was clearly 
used on early keyboards and it would be pretty unthinkable today to listen to a 
performance of 16th century Italian music or the English virginalists in equal 
temperament (obviously as we move into the baroque period, circulating 
temperaments were adopted that favoured purer fifths rather than pure major 
thirds).

When one gets used to playing a piece in 1/4 comma meantone with its pure, 
beatless major thirds, it can be quite a harrowing experience to go back to 
equal temperament as one is conscious of just how much crucial intervals beat 
and everything appears to be out of tune. It is not necessarily easy to adapt 
meantone successfully to the lute, but it can be done with time and careful 
adjustments of frets and the addition of tastini. 1/5 comma meantone is quite 
popular amongst major lutenists and although the thirds are no longer pure, it 
does impart far more character than equal temperament and does not require such 
extreme fret placement (which can be particularly uncomfortable on the short 
string length of a lute in a', for example). If one has access to an early 
keyboard and the help of an experienced player, it can be easier to appreciate 
the fundamentals of various temperaments than on the lute (metal strings 
facilitate the detection of beatless intervals).

Rather than being a daunting prospect, the use of meantone temperaments on the 
lute can add further enjoyment to one's playing and enrich our musical world.

Best,

Matthew



Le 20 juil. 2019 à 13:22, Ron Andrico  a écrit :

Tristan, the various alternative temperaments may sound nice for a
narrow repertory with the excepted odd note, but musicians who
understand music and who explore the more interesting repertory for
lute follow the precepts of Galilei, which approximates equal
temperament.

RA
   __

From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
of Tristan von Neumann 
Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 4:04 PM
To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
Subject: [LUTE] Lute Temperaments

I know this is a wide topic...
Today, I changed my fret setup from Gerle to Dowland (Thanks to Mr.
Niskanen and his marvellous calculator), because I mostly play later
16th century music.
It sounds somewhat "brighter" in the keys preferred then.
Maybe I will also try what Galilei recommended.
Which one did you try and which one do you prefer (for solo playing).
What are your thoughts on character vs. versatility?
To get on or off this list see list information at
[1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Lute Temperaments

[Roman Turovsky]

Well said, Ron.
RT 
===
http://rurovsky.org

> On Jul 20, 2019, at 7:22 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
>   Tristan, the various alternative temperaments may sound nice for a
>   narrow repertory with the excepted odd note, but musicians who
>   understand music and who explore the more interesting repertory for
>   lute follow the precepts of Galilei, which approximates equal
>   temperament.
> 
>   RA
> __
> 
>   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
>   of Tristan von Neumann 
>   Sent: Friday, July 19, 2019 4:04 PM
>   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu 
>   Subject: [LUTE] Lute Temperaments
> 
>   I know this is a wide topic...
>   Today, I changed my fret setup from Gerle to Dowland (Thanks to Mr.
>   Niskanen and his marvellous calculator), because I mostly play later
>   16th century music.
>   It sounds somewhat "brighter" in the keys preferred then.
>   Maybe I will also try what Galilei recommended.
>   Which one did you try and which one do you prefer (for solo playing).
>   What are your thoughts on character vs. versatility?
>   To get on or off this list see list information at
>   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 
>   --
> 
> References
> 
>   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
> 

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[Roman Turovsky]

aren't lutenists switching to gut out of sustainophobia?
RT


On 6/30/2019 3:46 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

I find that sustain is a major factor in the choice of a lute. Obviously we are 
not talking grand piano sustain, but an instrument with good sustain makes all 
the difference, especially for playing polyphonic music.
Clearly appropriate acoustics can make or break a lute, (however good the 
instrument and the player) but in the right environment the sound can also 
carry astonishingly well.

There might actually be a correlation between sustain and the amount of 
dishing. A well respected lutenist, with vast experience of teaching 
internationally, observed that lutes with inordinate dishing (a practice which 
is apparently common in some parts), and so with the strings at a significant 
height above the soundboard, frequently lacked sustain.

Best,
Matthew




On Jun 30, 2019, at 19:51, Ron Andrico  wrote:
Sustain does not and probably never did factor into the plucked string sound of 
the lute.  The sound is immediate and rich in overtones, but ephemeral and does 
not travel well.
   RA
 __



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[LUTE] Re: David Gilmore [guitar] Collection being sold

[Roman Turovsky]

Are there any lutes there?
If not - I wouldn't bother looking.))
RT

On 6/29/2019 3:12 PM, Peter Martin wrote:

$21 million total sale value!
[1]https://www.christies.com/the-david-gilmour-guitar-28021.aspx?saleti
tle=
P

On Thu, 13 Jun 2019 at 15:59, Arthur Ness
<[2]arthurjn...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

 Here's the link to the instruments (127 in total).   Some amazing
 estimated sales prices.

  [3]https://www.christies.com/salelanding/index.aspx?intsaleid(021
  d=1

  letitle==all=paging
 AJN
 --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. https://www.christies.com/the-david-gilmour-guitar-28021.aspx?saletitle=
2. mailto:arthurjn...@cs.dartmouth.edu
3. https://www.christies.com/salelanding/index.aspx?intsaleid(021=1
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[Roman Turovsky]

I have 6 axes, no bulges on any of them, knock on wood.
RT

On 6/29/2019 12:14 PM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

Oh well, if you say so. Maybe you'd like to inform the cream of the British 
makers that their lutes aren't well made then.
Best,
Matthew




On Jun 29, 2019, at 18:02, Roman Turovsky  wrote:

On well-made lutes - bridges don't sink.
RT


On 6/29/2019 10:30 AM, Matthew Daillie wrote:
Unfortunately things don't work that way. Generally over time the tension of 
the strings pulls the bridge towards the neck so that its front edge sinks and 
this is what causes the bulge in the soundboard you refer to. It's true that if 
you have no dishing, this immediately makes the lute virtually unplayable 
(which is another reason I like 6 mm or so of dishing). I don't think there is 
any evidence (or physical explanation I can think of) to suggest that a flat 
soundboard is going to be more subject to this phenomenon than one with 
dishing, it's just that the latter has more leeway. Different soundboards seem 
to react in different ways. I have a lute which is over 20 years old which has 
virtually no sign of the bridge sinking whereas a more recent lute might show 
signs of a sinking bridge within a very short period of time. I suspect that 
very thin soundboards are more prone to the problem.

Some late baroque lutes had convex bars between the rose and the bridge which 
might have been intended to try to limit the phenomenon of the bridge sinking 
over time. The corresponding bridges would have been convex.

Best,

Matthew



Le 29 juin 2019 à 15:10, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :

Physics, I suppose!))
The pull of the strings deepens the scoop, rather then lifting the bridge.

The non-concave soundboard also carries a large risk of becoming convex, and 
I’ve seen a few lutes with a nasty bulge between the bridge and the rose.
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Jun 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:

What is the reasoning behind that claim?

Best,

Matthew



Le 29 juin 2019 à 12:37, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :

The scoop keeps the action stable, and that’s its main function.
An axe without the scoop is a disaster to be avoided.
RT

--

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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Plucking Room

[Roman Turovsky]

On well-made lutes - bridges don't sink.
RT

On 6/29/2019 10:30 AM, Matthew Daillie wrote:

Unfortunately things don't work that way. Generally over time the tension of 
the strings pulls the bridge towards the neck so that its front edge sinks and 
this is what causes the bulge in the soundboard you refer to. It's true that if 
you have no dishing, this immediately makes the lute virtually unplayable 
(which is another reason I like 6 mm or so of dishing). I don't think there is 
any evidence (or physical explanation I can think of) to suggest that a flat 
soundboard is going to be more subject to this phenomenon than one with 
dishing, it's just that the latter has more leeway. Different soundboards seem 
to react in different ways. I have a lute which is over 20 years old which has 
virtually no sign of the bridge sinking whereas a more recent lute might show 
signs of a sinking bridge within a very short period of time. I suspect that 
very thin soundboards are more prone to the problem.

Some late baroque lutes had convex bars between the rose and the bridge which 
might have been intended to try to limit the phenomenon of the bridge sinking 
over time. The corresponding bridges would have been convex.

Best,

Matthew


Le 29 juin 2019 à 15:10, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :


Physics, I suppose!))
The pull of the strings deepens the scoop, rather then lifting the bridge.

The non-concave soundboard also carries a large risk of becoming convex, and 
I’ve seen a few lutes with a nasty bulge between the bridge and the rose.
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Jun 29, 2019, at 8:18 AM, Matthew Daillie  wrote:

What is the reasoning behind that claim?

Best,

Matthew



Le 29 juin 2019 à 12:37, r.turov...@gmail.com a écrit :

The scoop keeps the action stable, and that’s its main function.
An axe without the scoop is a disaster to be avoided.
RT


--

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[BAROQUE-LUTE] De Temporum Fine Postludia II

[Roman Turovsky]

Dear friends,
The entire “De Temporum Fine Postludia II” cd is now available 
physically on Amazon, electronically on all the services like iTunes, 
Apple Music etc., as well as on YouTube, for your perusal and delectation! -

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_nqd-ysxpM2s5UtdzrG8dhHBb1WO8l20YQ
It is an immense honor to collaborate with such a world-class musician 
as Christopher Wilke!

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT

http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
Ad magnam gloriam Rutheniae!
Moscovia delenda est!






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] lutes in the 1980's

[Roman Turovsky]

Dear Collective Wisdom,
Do you know anything about the luthier who signed as
Hubertus Claudius Alkmaar, in the 1980's?
RT





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: decent field recorder for lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Of course you can hear noise. This is New York City!))
RT

On 5/18/2019 12:24 PM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Seems ok, but I can hear the noise.

The stand alone devices have better ratio there.



On 18.05.19 18:04, Roman Turovsky wrote:

built mic in iPhones is mono, as is the recording software included ,
but the audio card it is great,
and there are inexpensive gadgets you can plug into it. Tascam stereo
mic works very well, and its gain is so strong that you need to
have the limiter switch on at all times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcTeHQu-Ml0 this is the result on the
Rode recording app.
RT

On 5/18/2019 10:48 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:

    How do they fare when it comes to the lute?
    My cheap (but pretty awesome for the price) Xiaomi phone has an
abysmal
    microphone.
    On Sat, 18 May 2019, 16:53 Roman Turovsky, 
<[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>

    wrote:

  iPhones are great for arts. I have 3 of them plus an iPad,
dedicated
  to
  various projects.
  RT
  On 5/18/2019 8:06 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
  > Roman, just NO. :)
  >
  >
  > Why would I want an iPhone. Or even a phone with a computer
in it.
  >
  > My old Motorola Razr V9 looks good and doesn't need to recharge
  every
  > day and only secret services may locate me, not dozens of
  companies.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > On 18.05.19 06:30, [2]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
  >> The best field recording device is your own iPhone, with a $50
  Tascam
  >> stereo mic, and Rode recording app.
  >> RT
  >>
  >> 
  >> [3]http://turovsky.org
  >> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
  >>
  >>> On May 17, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Daniel Heiman
  <[4]heiman.dan...@juno.com>
  >>> wrote:
  >>>
  To get on or off this list see list information at
[5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

    --

References

    1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
    2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
    3. http://turovsky.org/
    4. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com
    5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: decent field recorder for lute

[Roman Turovsky]

built mic in iPhones is mono, as is the recording software included , 
but the audio card it is great,
and there are inexpensive gadgets you can plug into it. Tascam stereo 
mic works very well, and its gain is so strong that you need to

have the limiter switch on at all times.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcTeHQu-Ml0 this is the result on the 
Rode recording app.

RT

On 5/18/2019 10:48 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:

How do they fare when it comes to the lute?
My cheap (but pretty awesome for the price) Xiaomi phone has an abysmal
microphone.
On Sat, 18 May 2019, 16:53 Roman Turovsky, <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:

  iPhones are great for arts. I have 3 of them plus an iPad, dedicated
  to
  various projects.
  RT
  On 5/18/2019 8:06 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
  > Roman, just NO. :)
  >
  >
  > Why would I want an iPhone. Or even a phone with a computer in it.
  >
  > My old Motorola Razr V9 looks good and doesn't need to recharge
  every
  > day and only secret services may locate me, not dozens of
  companies.
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > On 18.05.19 06:30, [2]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
  >> The best field recording device is your own iPhone, with a $50
  Tascam
  >> stereo mic, and Rode recording app.
  >> RT
  >>
  >> 
  >> [3]http://turovsky.org
  >> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
  >>
  >>> On May 17, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Daniel Heiman
  <[4]heiman.dan...@juno.com>
  >>> wrote:
  >>>
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
3. http://turovsky.org/
4. mailto:heiman.dan...@juno.com
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: decent field recorder for lute

[Roman Turovsky]

iPhones are great for arts. I have 3 of them plus an iPad, dedicated to 
various projects.

RT

On 5/18/2019 8:06 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Roman, just NO. :)


Why would I want an iPhone. Or even a phone with a computer in it.

My old Motorola Razr V9 looks good and doesn't need to recharge every
day and only secret services may locate me, not dozens of companies.




On 18.05.19 06:30, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
The best field recording device is your own iPhone, with a $50 Tascam 
stereo mic, and Rode recording app.

RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.

On May 17, 2019, at 10:02 PM, Daniel Heiman  
wrote:






To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] De Temporum Fine Postludia II

[Roman Turovsky]

   Dear friends,
   The “De Temporum Fine Postludia II” CD has just been released
   electronically!
   The physical CDs will be available next week!
   Full track previews!
   Enjoy-
   [1]http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/christopherwilke22

   RT

   --

References

   1. 
http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/christopherwilke22?fbclid=IwAR1YppiTng8jY9YMl2ZW-5Wp9jBm_oybktSVmN5d3cGI32Lb0ZxjPGC8vCg


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] De Temporum Fine Postludia II

[Roman Turovsky]

   Dear friends,
   The "De Temporum Fine Postludia II" CD has just been released
   electronically!
   The physical CDs will be available next week!
   Full track previews!
   Enjoy-
   [1]http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/christopherwilke22

   RT

   --

References

   1. 
http://store.cdbaby.com/cd/christopherwilke22?fbclid=IwAR1YppiTng8jY9YMl2ZW-5Wp9jBm_oybktSVmN5d3cGI32Lb0ZxjPGC8vCg


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[Roman Turovsky]

Fernando Sor.
RT


On 5/8/2019 9:35 AM, magnus andersson wrote:

Do we have any evidence of any historical guitar or theorbo player who
explicitly played without fingernails?

[1]Skickat från Yahoo Mail för iPhone

Den onsdag, maj 8, 2019, 3:20 em, skrev Martyn Hodgson
:

  Hear! hear!.

  And just because some theorbo players used nails by no means that De

  Visee did. This is, of course, how modern myths start

  Martyn

  On Wednesday, 8 May 2019, 11:09:58 BST, Monica Hall

  <[2]mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

  Corbetta didn't have to pay his musicians out of his own pocket -

  that's just another myth. The relevant source states that

  Every foreign musician who performed at court in Turin was given 500

  Thlr. and Madame Royale wished to show her generosity by not

  withholding anything [from Signor Corbetta].

  Madame Royale was the mother of Victor Amadeus, the ruler of Savoy at

  the time when Corbetta visited the town to perform.

  We don't actually know whether De Visee played with his nails.

  Monica

  > On 07 May 2019 at 22:20 magnus andersson

  <[1][3]maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

  >

  >

  >Dear collective wisdom,

  >From what I have understood, it seems like manicure has been

  around

  >since  at least 3200 BC, so I assume players like Piccinini,

  Corbetta

  >(who we know had

  >to cancel one of his concerts due to a broken nail- and still
pay

  his

  >fellow musicians from his own pocket!) and perhaps de Visà ©e
had

  found

  >a way for them to get it to work without shredding and tearing

  their

  >strings apart constantly, and - to quote Piccinini:

  >

  >"the one, and very important [thing] is to play neatly, and

  cleanly; In

  >the manner that all small touches of the string may be schietto,

  like

  >pearl[s]"

  >/Magnus

  >

  >On Tuesday, May 7, 2019, 10:45:44 PM GMT+2, John Mardinly

  ><[2][4]john.mardi...@asu.edu> wrote:

  >  Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document
good

  nail

  >  polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I

  would

  >  love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from
telescope

  >lenses

  >  and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The

  chamois

  >  stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much

  better

  >  in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among

  those

  >who

  >  play with nails.

  >  A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

  >  On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran

  ><[1][1][3][5]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>

  >  wrote:

  >  Hahahaha good point!

  >  To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to

  remember

  >  you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of

  years to

  >  polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum

  >  ("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute

  >  <[2][2][4][6]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:

  >Dear All:

  >Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to

  build

  >lutes and

  >craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to

  file

  >and

  >polish

  >their nails.

  >Jim Stimson

  >Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

  > Original message 

  >From: John Mardinly <[3][3][5][7]john.mardi...@asu.edu>

  >Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)

  >To: Roland Hayes
<[4][4][6][8]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>

  >Cc: Lute List <[5][5][7][9]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>

  >Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee

  >More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of

  the

  >modern

  >files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly

  prepared

  >nails give

  >a terrible result for both sound and playability. My

  teacher

  >back

  >in

  >1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia

  >prepared

  >his

  >nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a

  saw-cut

  >slot in

  >it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden
block.

  The

  >nail was

  >then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot,

  which

  >acted as

 

[LUTE] Re: De Visee

[Roman Turovsky]

Manicure has been around a long more than lute-playing.

RT



On 5/7/2019 4:44 PM, John Mardinly wrote:

Pure speculation. Where are the facts? Can anyone document good nail
polishing techniques that may have been used centuries ago? I would
love to see it. Techniques used to polish things from telescope lenses
and mirrors to razors would not work well on fingernails. The chamois
stropping technique used by Segovia because there was not much better
in the mid 20th Century would be deemed laughable today among those who
play with nails.

A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.

On May 7, 2019, at 4:48 AM, Yuval Dvoran <[1]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de>
wrote:

Hahahaha good point!
To add something substantial to the discussion, I'd like to remember
you that also plants exist which were used for thousands of years to
polish wood (and maybe also fingernails), e.g. Equisetum
("Schachtelhalm" in German).Am 07.05.2019 13:31 schrieb jslute
<[2]jsl...@cs.dartmouth.edu>:

 Dear All:
  Might I suggest that a culture sophisticated enough to build
  lutes and
 craft overwound strings could have figured out a way to file and
  polish
 their nails.
 Jim Stimson
 Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
  Original message 
 From: John Mardinly <[3]john.mardi...@asu.edu>
 Date: 5/6/19 6:51 PM (GMT-05:00)
 To: Roland Hayes <[4]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
 Cc: Lute List <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Subject: [LUTE] Re: De Visee
 More lacking than glue-on-nails might have been some of the
  modern
 files and abrasives used to polish the nails. Badly prepared
  nails give
 a terrible result for both sound and playability. My teacher back
  in
 1965 had studied with Segovia, and showed me how Segovia prepared
  his
 nails: after some filing, he used a wooden block with a saw-cut
  slot in
 it and a piece of chamois wrapped around the wooden block. The
  nail was
 then rubbed back and forth on the chamois over the slot, which
  acted as
 a track to guide the nail. When I began to study metallurgy and
  the art
 of cross-sectioning and polishing metals to view their
  microstructure,
 I experienced a revolution in materials to polish the nails that
  were
 quickly adopted by many people playing with nails.
 A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
 > On May 6, 2019, at 3:34 PM, Roland Hayes
  <[6]rha...@legalaidbuffalo.org>
 wrote:
 >
 >   Do we think he played with nails? Lutenists did not as I
 understand,
 >   but
 >
 >   I have always thought his lute pieces were merely
  arrangements of
 >   guitar/theorbo pieces. For those instruments we can establish
  the
 use
 >   of nails.
 >
 >   And if deVisee played guitar with nails, then he most likely
  played
 >   theorbo with nails as well. Yes? Glue on nails had yet to
  arrive on
 the
 >   scene.
 >
 >   Get [1]Outlook for Android
 >
 >   This message is intended only for the use of the individual
  or
 entity
 >   to which it is addressed, and may contain information that is
 >   privileged, confidential and exempt from disclosure under
 applicable
 >   law. If the reader of this message is not the intended
  recipient,
 or
 >   the employee or agent responsible for delivering the message
  to the
 >   intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any
  dissemination,
 >   distribution, or copying of this communication is strictly
 prohibited.
 >   If you have received this communication in error, please
  notify us
 >   immediately by telephone and return the original message to
  us at
 >   [7]i...@legalaidbuffalo.org --
 >
 > References
 >
 >   1.

  [8]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__aka.ms_ghei3
  6=Dw

  IBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joG
  eE1

  ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E���1m2M37zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvv
  Jqg
 =ctn5UU2dPJsBEQxzJcHstOUeERuDkBtXhs4pd0M0t-c=
 >
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 >

  [9]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmo
  uth.ed

  u_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIBAg=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
  1Gy

  cN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E���1
  m2M37

  zO3KCb5uTRtTMLYbh6c_tcz94RkH1fvvJqg=9RqBccAKKlP3oVcnl4UNupxF1MvNw_
  jgZ
 4VyNvSGyDk=

References

1. 

[LUTE] Re: theorbo repertoire

[Roman Turovsky]

   From Lynda Sayce:
   "I suspect all theorbo players are subliminally aware of the heavy key
   bias in the historic repertory.
   It rears its head every time we're asked to supply a little link piece
   for a programme, always in a key
   in which no theorbo music survives…! The (original) index of the Vaudry
   de Saizenay manuscript (1699),
   which you probably know, gives a pretty good overview of the keys used,
   and their relative importance
   in the repertory. It assumes an instrument in A. The situation with the
   Italian sources is somewhat similar
   (though this is only a casual ‘off the top of my head' mental survey):
   again assuming A tuning, you'll find
   a lot in G major and G minor, D major and D minor. Surprisingly little
   in A major or A minor, which you
   would expect to be much-used keys. A reasonable amount in C major and F
   major.
   Other keys are much less common."

   RT

   On 4/20/2019 4:22 AM, Jean-Marie POIRIER wrote:

   John Wilson has also Voluntaries in these keys !


   Jean-Marie





 > Message du 19/04/19 23:02
 > De : "magnus andersson" [1]
 > A : "Roman Turovsky" [2], "Lute Net"
 [3]
 > Copie à :
 > Objet : [LUTE] Re: theorbo repertoire
 >
 > Dear Roman,
 >
 > Not true :)
 > On the top of my head:
 > Bartolotti in A- Wn 17706 ( e minor)
 > De Vis����e in Saizenay ( b minor and e minor)
 > [1]Skickat fr����n Yahoo Mail f����r iPhone
 >
 > Den fredag, april 19, 2019, 10:12 em, skrev Roman Turovsky
 > [4]:
 >
 > A question to the collective wisdom:
 >
 > Someone mentioned to me that there are practically no surviving
 solo
 >
 > theorbo pieces in e-minor or b-minor.
 >
 > Is that true?
 >
 > RT
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 >
 > [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 > --
 >
 > References
 >
 > 1. [6]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
 > 2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: theorbo repertoire

[Roman Turovsky]

   for organ?

   RT

   On 4/20/2019 4:22 AM, Jean-Marie POIRIER wrote:

   John Wilson has also Voluntaries in these keys !


   Jean-Marie





 > Message du 19/04/19 23:02
 > De : "magnus andersson" [1]
     > A : "Roman Turovsky" [2], "Lute Net"
 [3]
 > Copie à :
 > Objet : [LUTE] Re: theorbo repertoire
 >
 > Dear Roman,
 >
 > Not true :)
 > On the top of my head:
 > Bartolotti in A- Wn 17706 ( e minor)
 > De Vis����e in Saizenay ( b minor and e minor)
 > [1]Skickat fr����n Yahoo Mail f����r iPhone
     >
 > Den fredag, april 19, 2019, 10:12 em, skrev Roman Turovsky
 > [4]:
 >
 > A question to the collective wisdom:
 >
 > Someone mentioned to me that there are practically no surviving
 solo
 >
 > theorbo pieces in e-minor or b-minor.
 >
 > Is that true?
 >
 > RT
 >
 > To get on or off this list see list information at
 >
 > [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 > --
 >
 > References
 >
 > 1. [6]https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
 > 2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 >
 >

   --

References

   1. mailto:maan7...@cs.dartmouth.edu
   2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   3. mailto:lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
   5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   6. https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/?.src=iOS
   7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] theorbo repertoire

[Roman Turovsky]

A question to the collective wisdom:
Someone mentioned to me that there are practically no surviving solo 
theorbo pieces in e-minor or b-minor.

Is that true?

RT




To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] S.Zhadan "SEARCH": film, lute and war

[Roman Turovsky]

   For those of my friends who couldn't attend the fabulous event at the
   Ukrainian Museum on April 12: here's the video from it:

   [1]https://youtu.be/4aeiETVd3jU

   Special thanks to [2]Stuart Walsh and [3]Володимир Харченко!
   RT

   --

References

   1. 
https://youtu.be/4aeiETVd3jU?fbclid=IwAR1PfMLKphjkXwCDnC9uAv4nARVEF0d18KWioyFNSReT4h7R7TdR-uvFXTQ
   2. 
https://www.facebook.com/stuart.walsh.5?__tn__=,dK-R-R=ARDaZOT6TGYbxY2THvBfM3_CQ4AK1f3Lrwm6K6GBk40WK6bdPcZOHGN-SSmJGzyOUCgTuLciYg552vlX=mentions
   3. 
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id0002999263809&__tn__=,dK-R-R=ARCDmTVqX0OZRnc5wu_PlXSQGq5ICR6U2qc2_ZpUGJ5J3Bz2HM0rUNb_0eHoTVcDdurKWRksGURnNGK-=mentions


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Froeberger on Baroque lute

[Roman Turovsky]

look at #34 at
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/opus-2.html
RT

On 4/13/2019 7:48 PM, Jay F. wrote:

Hello All,

I was wondering if someone could point me to some good transcriptions
of Froberger's keyboard music for 13c lute?

Best wishes,

Jay

--


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Nylon string 2m

[Roman Turovsky]

that's 0.52 carbon. shouldn't be a problem.
RT

On 4/1/2019 9:11 AM, Edward Martin wrote:

You say a nylgut .62 is too thick. You have stated the length you want, but 
what size string are you asking?

Sent from my iPhone


On Apr 1, 2019, at 7:42 AM, Yuval Dvoran  wrote:

I know, but carbon will be too thin for this job... I'd love to use Nylgut, but 
0,62 is too thick, and they don't produce it in 0,6 in 1,80m length.
Am 01.04.2019 15:39 schrieb Roman Turovsky :

you can get unlimited lenghts of Seaguar carbonfiber.
RT


On 4/1/2019 7:20 AM, Yuval Dvoran wrote:
  Hi folks,

  Any ideas, where I can get a nylon string of 1,80-2,00m length? I
  already asked Pyramid and Kürschner, both only have short ones. Savarez
  I'll contact in some minutes.
  And any experiments with line?

  All the best from sunny Germany!
  Yuval


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Nylon string 2m

[Roman Turovsky]

you can get unlimited lenghts of Seaguar carbonfiber.
RT

On 4/1/2019 7:20 AM, Yuval Dvoran wrote:

Hi folks,

Any ideas, where I can get a nylon string of 1,80-2,00m length? I
already asked Pyramid and Kürschner, both only have short ones. Savarez
I'll contact in some minutes.
And any experiments with line?

All the best from sunny Germany!
Yuval


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[LUTE] An Estonian Air

[Roman Turovsky]

For your perusal and delectation:
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/setomaa.html
SIBERI SETUDE LUGU, a traditional Estonian melody
in three versions, for
baroque lute, theorbo and renaissance lute.
Enjoy!
Amities,
RT



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[LUTE] Re: Heavy theorbo neck

[Roman Turovsky]

Virtus stat in medio.
RT

On 3/28/2019 9:37 AM, Luca Manassero wrote:

Dear all,
thank you for all your interesting suggestions!
I'll probably think again about it ;-)
All the best,
Luca
 On dom, 24 mar 2019 05:10:08 +0100 Howard
Posner wrote 

I'd have asked him the question I asked you.
Sent from my iPhone
> On Mar 23, 2019, at 18:02, Roman Turovsky <[1]r.turov...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Pat's opinion re the luthier's fault.
> RT
>
>> On 3/23/2019 7:01 PM, howard posner wrote:
>> What do you base that conclusion on?
>> Did the lute formerly have a lighter neck?
>>
>>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 3:16 PM, [2]r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> One of my lutes is neck-heavy, and it definitely has been
detrimental to its sound.
>>> RT
>>>
>>> 
>>> [3]http://turovsky.org
>>> Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
>>>
>>>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:48 PM, [4]yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote:
>>>>
>>>> My lute builder, Dieter Schossig, is actually a physicist, and he
also told me about this. It's about the energy that gets lost in the
neck, instead of reinforcing the sound.
>>>>
>>>> Am 23.03.2019 22:29 schrieb John Mardinly:
>>>>> Some guitar makers have also believed that neck stiffness
improves the
>>>>> sound. Ramirez 1A guitars have a significant graphite-epoxy inset
along
>>>>> the neck to stiffen it, and that is said to be significant in a
neck
>>>>> that is only 66.7cm.
>>>>> A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM, howard posner
<[1][5]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Luca Manassero
<[2][6]l...@manassero.net>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> I‘m about to ask him to rebuild the long neck of my big
Hasenfuss
>>>>> theorbo, as the instrument has a fantastic voice, but Hasenfuss
>>>>> built a
>>>>> very heavy long neck, so it is really painful to homd during
>>>>> concerts.
>>>>> A lighter neck should solve the issue.
>>>>> All the best,
>>>>> Luca
>>>>> Consider that the heavy neck may be part of what makes the
fantastic
>>>>> voice. I've been told that a neck that's heavy, and therefore
does not
>>>>> vibrate, increases resonance because a vibrating neck has a
damping
>>>>> effect on the body of the instrument. I don't recall whether
Hendrik
>>>>> told me that, or it was volunteered by someone else, and I can't
vouch
>>>>> for its accuracy as a matter of acoustical science.
>>>>> But I can tell you that the heavy neck on my Hasenfuss theorbo
was
>>>>> never a problem because I never held the instrument while I
played it.
>>>>> I just used a strap, and ran a leather or fake-leather bootlace
from
>>>>> the bridge-end of the instrument and sat on it (the lace, NOT the
>>>>> instrument). I could take my hands off the theorbo completely.
>>>>> Indeed, listeners may have preferred it when I did.
>>>>> And it's a lot cheaper than rebuilding the neck.
>>>>> H
>>
>>
>>
>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
2. mailto:r.turov...@gmail.com
3. http://turovsky.org/
4. mailto:yuval.dvo...@posteo.de
5. mailto:howardpos...@ca.rr.com
6. mailto:l...@manassero.net
7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Rust and lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Coincidently,
I have arranged Rust's setting of Goethe's Wanderers Nachlied
for lute in two versions, in F and C,
Played it with a contralto friend at a Stubbs' masterclass 30 years ago:
http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/rust-c.pdf
http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/rust-f.pdf
Enjoy!
Met vriendelijke groeten,
RT




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[LUTE] Re: Heavy theorbo neck

[Roman Turovsky]

Pat's opinion re the luthier's fault.
RT

On 3/23/2019 7:01 PM, howard posner wrote:

What do you base that conclusion on?
Did the lute formerly have a lighter neck?


On Mar 23, 2019, at 3:16 PM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

One of my lutes is neck-heavy, and it definitely has been detrimental to its 
sound.
RT


http://turovsky.org
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.


On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:48 PM, yuval.dvo...@posteo.de wrote:

My lute builder, Dieter Schossig, is actually a physicist, and he also told me 
about this. It's about the energy that gets lost in the neck, instead of 
reinforcing the sound.

Am 23.03.2019 22:29 schrieb John Mardinly:

Some guitar makers have also believed that neck stiffness improves the
  sound. Ramirez 1A guitars have a significant graphite-epoxy inset along
  the neck to stiffen it, and that is said to be significant in a neck
  that is only 66.7cm.
  A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
  On Mar 23, 2019, at 2:22 PM, howard posner <[1]howardpos...@ca.rr.com>
  wrote:
On Mar 23, 2019, at 5:43 AM, Luca Manassero <[2]l...@manassero.net>
wrote:
 I‘m about to ask him to rebuild the long neck of my big Hasenfuss
 theorbo, as the instrument has a fantastic voice, but Hasenfuss
built a
 very heavy long neck, so it is really painful to homd during
concerts.
 A lighter neck should solve the issue.
 All the best,
 Luca
  Consider that the heavy neck may be part of what makes the fantastic
  voice.  I've been told that a neck that's heavy, and therefore does not
  vibrate, increases resonance because a vibrating neck has a damping
  effect on the body of the instrument.  I don't recall whether Hendrik
  told me that, or it was volunteered by someone else, and I can't vouch
  for its accuracy as a matter of acoustical science.
  But I can tell you that the heavy neck on my Hasenfuss theorbo was
  never a problem because I never held the instrument while I played it.
   I just used a strap, and ran a leather or fake-leather bootlace from
  the bridge-end of the instrument and sat on it (the lace, NOT the
  instrument).  I could take my hands off the theorbo completely.
  Indeed, listeners may have preferred it when I did.
  And it's a lot cheaper than rebuilding the neck.
  H




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[LUTE] Re: baroque lute duets

[Roman Turovsky]

http://polyhymnion.org/swv/adue2.html
RT


On 3/23/2019 10:51 AM, b...@symbol4.de wrote:


Gesendet: Samstag, 23. März 2019 um 15:15 Uhr
Von: "Richard Brook" 
An: "Jay F." 
Cc: "lute@cs.dartmouth.edu" 
Betreff: [LUTE] Re: Best luthier to make a 1728 Edlinger/problems with
new Cepelak lute
Hi B lutenists
On a different question.
Do you know where I might acquire any Baroque lute duet sheet music? I
have some duets but just for B lute and flute.
Thanks
Dick Brook


Hi Dick! I changed the subject line..

Have a look here
[1]http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?Partitions/Le_Secret_des_Muses

volume 29.

for French baroque lute duets.

A beautiful transcription of BWV 814 (3rd french Suite)

[2]http://www.luteduo.com/en/product/j-s-bach-lute-duo-book-2/

Kind regards
B

References

1. http://www.sf-luth.org/index.php?Partitions/Le_Secret_des_Muses
2. http://www.luteduo.com/en/product/j-s-bach-lute-duo-book-2/


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[LUTE] Re: right hand technique -- bending the pinky

[Roman Turovsky]

According to Pat O'Brien one should never bend the right pinky,
as that locks the rest of the hand and particularly - the elbow.
Pat actually had me put masking tape on my pinky early on,
to prevent it from bending.
RT


On 3/5/2019 2:11 AM, Jurgen Frenz wrote:

It would be totally excellent if you'd find out where Besard made that 
suggestion.
Thanks,
jurgen


--
“There is a voice that doesn’t use words. Listen.”

Jalāl ad-Dīn Muhammad Rumi

‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐
On Tuesday, March 5, 2019 10:40 AM, Alain Veylit  
wrote:


That's odd because I remember O'Dette's advice for the left-hand pinky:
plant it vertically on the string instead of laying it flat - which
requires more effort. That should mean his left-hand little finger can
bend... Not a conclusive proof for the right hand little finger but ...
For Renaissance lute, if I am not mistaken, the right-hand little finger
is supposed to be parallel to the sound board, just lightly brushing on
it, and it should remain extended.

Anybody with a good explanation as to how additional basses would alter
the right hand position? If I recall, Besard still argued for a mixed
technique, thumb-under for fast runs and thumb over for whatever else
(chords). I think it is logical that increasing dedication of the thumb
to the bass strings does account for the shift in right-hand position,
and when you think about it, it is not a small revolution in music
history...

On 3/4/19 7:12 PM, Richard Brook wrote:


Heard via the late great Pat OBrien Paul O’Dette couldn’t bend that finger down 
by itself. Though I think Pat said in my case the fault was in my head, not in 
the stars.
D ick Brook


On Mar 4, 2019, at 6:58 PM, Alain Veylit al...@musickshandmade.com wrote:
Good one Rainer - Anybody remembers the title of that American series from the 
60s-70s where aliens live among us in disguise, and the only sure way to 
identify them is that they cannot bend their little finger?
Worth mentioning also about right-hand technique, Jimmy Hendrix playing with 
his teeth - frustrated leftie, you think?
On 3/4/19 12:19 PM, Rainer wrote:


On 04.03.2019 17:11, Alain Veylit wrote:


And then, there is Django Reinhardt... one big exception to the rules of guitar 
playing. Experimenting with various techniques has probably always been a 
popular habit among musicians, whether by choice or force.

And Aguado used the 4th finger of the right hand. Perhaps he was an alien :)
Rainer
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[LUTE] Re: Caravaggio

[Roman Turovsky]

Nothing to do with the model.
Caravaggio himself was documented to have been a competent plucker,
so he absolutely knew how to depict them fingers in correct positions.
David van Edwards is "right on the money".
RT


On 3/4/2019 3:01 AM, Martyn Hodgson wrote:

There's no reason why the third finger should not be held on the belly
- rather than the more conventional fourth.  Indeed, some historical
players (Kapsberger comes to mind) are recorded as only plucking with
the thumb, first and second fingers.
Further, it's not wholly unlikely that the painting shows a model who
may not have had much, if any, real instruction on how to play the
instrument -  how many modern depictions of lutes (in ads etc) depict
unlikely postures which are accepted by the general public (eg a
current UK Building society TV ad)  and even, amazingly, a print ad for
a manufacturer of thirteen course and other lutes being played in what
appears to be an unconventional manner
MH

On Saturday, 2 March 2019, 04:39:51 GMT, Lisa Sass @muse
 wrote:
You're welcome! Towards the end, he gets into finger position. Plus,
link to a followup article from ~2005 is at the very bottom.
Sent from my TRS-80
> On Mar 1, 2019, at 22:09, Edward C. Yong <[1]edward.y...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Thank you! This may well have been it!
>
>> On 2 Mar 2019, at 12:02 PM, Lisa Sass @muse
<[2]muse314...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>  Was it David Van
>>  Edwards? [1][3]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/month/jun99/month.htm
>>
>>  ~Lisa Sass
>>  Sent from my TRS-80
>>  On Mar 1, 2019, at 21:47, Edward C. Yong
<[2][4]edward.y...@gmail.com>
>>  wrote:
>>
>>  Hi everyone,
>>  over a decade ago, I recall attending one of the talks at the UK
Lute
>>  Society's meetings where the speaker talked about paintings of lute
>>  players, and said he felt a certain painting (Caravaggio?) was
likely a
>>  fake on account of the positioning of the fingers. It was quite a
>>  compelling argument at the time.
>>  Does anyone recall who the talk was by and if a transcript is
>>  available?
>>  Thanks in advance!
>>  Edward
>>  To get on or off this list see list information at
>>  [3][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>>  --
>>
>> References
>>
>>  1. [6]http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/month/jun99/month.htm
>>  2. mailto:[7]edward.y...@gmail.com
>>  3. [8]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
>

--

References

1. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
2. mailto:muse314...@gmail.com
3. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/month/jun99/month.htm
4. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
6. http://www.vanedwards.co.uk/month/jun99/month.htm
7. mailto:edward.y...@gmail.com
8. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Tombeau de Boleslaw Lesmian

[Roman Turovsky]

   for your perusal and delectation -

   [1]https://youtu.be/H7KrfGtV1jg
   -
   Tombeau de Boleslaw Lesmian, le grand poete polonois,
   performed by Maciej Konczak on Weiss-theorbo.
   Amities,
   RT
   __._,_.___
 __

   Envoyé par : Roman Turovsky [2]
 __

   [stime50433513]

   __,_._,___

   --

References

   1. 
https://youtu.be/H7KrfGtV1jg?fbclid=IwAR095v_L3CGkvXydACIUPi6OccXlgk1av-gLyrqO9FVQH4aW21MyeKynndo
   2. mailto:lu...@polyhymnion.org


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[LUTE] Re: LA RITURNELLA

[Roman Turovsky]

   On 2/11/2019 6:43 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

 For those who may be familiar with this traditional song from Sicily
 -
 [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ711ThbHw - a very cheesy
 version,
 [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwCMn5YXEQ8 - a very classy
 version
 and wishing to accompany oneselfon lute or theorbo:
 [3]http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/riturnella.pdf - the
 greatest 4 bars-worth of music.
 RT

   Tu rinnina che vai
   Tu rinnina che vai
   Lu maru maru
   Oi riturnella
   Tu rinnina che vai lu maru maru
   Ferma quanno te dico
   Ferma quanno te dico
   Dui paroli
   Oi riturnella
   Ferma quanno te dico dui paroli
   Corri a jettari lu
   Corri a jettari lu
   Suspiro a mari
   Oi riturnella
   Corri a jettari lu suspiro a mari
   E vididi se mi rispunna
   E vididi se mi rispunna
   Lu mio beni
   Oi riturnella
   E vididi se mi rispunna lu mio beni
   Non mi rispunna - No
   Non mi rispunna - No
   È troppo lontano -
   Oi riturnella
   Non mi rispunna - No è troppo lontano
   E sotto a na friscura
   E sotto a na friscura
   Che sta dormendo
   Oi riturnella
   E sotto a na friscura che sta dormendo
   Poi si ripiglia cu
   Poi si ripiglia cu
   Nu chianto all'occhi
   Oi riturnella
   Poi si ripiglia cu nu chianto all'occhi
   Se struja l'occhi e li
   Se struja l'occhi e li
   Passa lu chianto
   Oi riturnella
   Se struja l'occhi e li passa lu chianto
   Piglia tu muccaturo
   Piglia tu muccaturo
   Lu vai a lavu
   Oi riturnella
   Piglia tu muccaturo lu vai a lavu
   Poi ti lu spanno a lu
   Poi ti lu spanno a lu
   Pero de rosa
   Oi riturnella
   Poi ti lu spanno a lu pero de rosa
   Poi ti lu manno a Na…
   Poi ti lu manno a Na…
   …poli a stirare
   Oi riturnella
   Poi ti lu manno a Napoli a stirare
   Poi ti lu cogliu a la
   Poi ti lu cogliu a la
   Napulitana
   Oi riturnella
   Poi ti lu cogliu a la napulitana
   Poi ti lu mannu cu
   Poi ti lu mannu cu
   Ventu a purtari
   Oi riturnella
   Poi ti lu mannu cu ventu a purtari
   Ventu và portacello
   Ventu và portacello
   A lu mio beni
   Oi riturnella
   Ventu và portacello a lu mio beni
   Mera che nun ti cada
   Mera che nun ti cada
   Pé supra mari
   Oi riturnella
   Mera che nun ti cada pé supra mari
   Ca perdo li sigilli
   Ca perdo li sigilli
   De stu cori
   Oi riturnella
   Ca perdo li sigilli de stu cori

   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ711ThbHw
   2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwCMn5YXEQ8
   3. http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/riturnella.pdf


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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] LA RITURNELLA

[Roman Turovsky]

For those who may be familiar with this traditional song from Sicily -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSJ711ThbHw - a very cheesy version,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwCMn5YXEQ8 - a very classy version

and wishing to accompany oneselfon lute or theorbo:
http://polyhymnion.org/lieder/images/riturnella.pdf - the greatest 4 
bars-worth of music.

RT




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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Rust Viola & lute Sonata

[Roman Turovsky]

the photostat that I looked at the LincolnCenter library 30 yeaqrs ago 
was a different sonata,

with a slow movement in minor.
Same handwriting I think.
RT

On 1/7/2019 2:20 PM, Arthur Ness wrote:

He's a digital copy (grandson scribe???).
https://digital.staatsbibliothek-berlin.de/werkansicht?PPN=PPN882226452
=PHYS_0001=

--


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[LUTE] Nick Cave

[Roman Turovsky]

For the Nick Cave fans among Lutenetters:
I have made a simple arrangement of the HENRY LEE ballad,
in various keys for different voice ranges, plus one version for theorbo.

Interested parties, drop me an email!
Happy New Year!
RT

==
Feci quod potui. Faciant meliora potentes.
http://polyhymnion.org/swv



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Roman Turovsky - Tombeau de Walerian Lukasinski - Maciej Konczak (baroque lute) - YouTube

[Roman Turovsky]

   For your perusal and enlightenment/delectation:

   [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkgCITuz4pM

   [2]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walerian_%C5%81ukasi%C5%84ski

   [3]http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/s/tombeau-lukasinski.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT
   --

References

   1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkgCITuz4pM
   2. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walerian_Łukasiński?fbclid=IwAR0JOHgi5XQb-rgkPHS_W6yM4WL2SgQrZGuRNmEZjFguvmttivvfder3j3Y
   3. 
http://www.polyhymnion.org/tombeau/tombeaux/s/tombeau-lukasinski.pdf?fbclid=IwAR0Wr4lG7OUmWgCtFulSguAOiVFlKbDwKzpP2IJ5V5x63_5PXiJSbtDZPSc


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[LUTE] Re: The awful English language

[Roman Turovsky]

The computer analysis of Shakespearian vocabulary that pinned it on a single 
individual from Warwickshire was featured prominently on the great PBS 
documentary “The Story Of English”.
RT

PS
I had a classmate in college who was a Dutch crown prince. He was mainly a 
weeder. 
There goes the myth of aristocratic culturedness 



Sent from my iPad

On Sep 18, 2018, at 6:50 AM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

  No time to present more information because I'm busy scribbling, but
  here are some links to words by others who, like me, have actually been
  involved in theater.

  [1]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6985917.stm

  [2]https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2012/may/01/shakespeare-had-help-t
  homas-middleton

  [3]https://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/theater/l-shakespeare-by-committe
  e-721050.html
__

  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
  of howard posner 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2018 2:43 AM
  To: Lute net
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language

  Ron Andrico  wrote:
> 
> As for the less-than-eloquent William Shakespeare,  it's just plain
  silly to think he actually wrote the canon commonly attributed to his
  name.  He was a player, a station lower than that of a professional
  musician.
  He was a landowner, a station rather higher than a professional
  musician.
  There are all sorts of indications in the Shakespeare plays that the
  author had working-class/agrarian/merchant background.
  When Hamlet tells Horatio, "There's a divinity that shapes our ends,
  rough-hew them how we will," he uses terms that gardeners (or
  hedge-workers, anyway) were still using in the 20th century, and for
  all I know, the 21st.  His characters will talk of sheep as actual
  animals, rather than as metaphors for people easily led, which is
  unusual if not unique at the time, but a natural thing for someone who
  was in the wool business.  The word "cheveril" (glove leather, which
  needed to be more supple than any other leather) three times in his
  plays (Mercutio tells Romeo "O, here's a wit of cheveril, that
  stretches from an inch narrow to an ell broad;" the Old Lady remarks on
  Anne Boleyn's "cheveril conscience" in Henry VIII; and Feste in Twelfth
  Night says "A sentence is 
but a cheveril glove to a good wit: how
  quickly the 
wrong side may be turned outward") which is three more
  times than I've ever found it in other other author's words, almost as
  if the au!
   thor's father was John Shakespeare the glove maker.
> I think there is strong evidence that the plays arose from the circle
  surrounding Lucy Countess of Bedford, including the  likes of John
  Donne, Ben Jonson, Edmund Spenser, Samuel Danyel.
  I don't even want to know what you'd consider "weak evidence."
> William Shakepeare the playwright is a successful bit of propaganda
  that paved the way for other enormous lies that the public buys.
  Who would have been part of this disinformation conspiracy, and why?
  Besides Ben Jonson, of course, and a bunch of London publishers, and
  the theater companies in which Shakespeare was a partner, and the
  university-educated writers who bitched about the uneducated upstart,
  and  everyone else until the 19th century.
> A thinking person considers that tremendous output and weighs it
  against the physical reality of the amount of time required to produce
  all that scribbling in light of the work a player like William
  Shakespeare was required to do in order to survive.
  The Shakespeare canon is between 36 and 42 plays, depending on one's
  attitude about authenticity.  Surely, Ron, as someone who has churned
  out a large volume of deathless, insightful prose as a sidelight to
  your busy life as a musician, you're not seriously suggesting that a
  gifted writer could not produce those plays over the 25 years we know
  Shakespeare was active.  That's about a play and half per year, and we
  know that a number of plays were collaborations.
  If you want to tell me that Telemann had to be identical triplets, I'm
  with you, but "Shakespeare couldn't have found the time" won't hold
  water.
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [4]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

References

  1. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/6985917.stm
  2. 
https://www.theguardian.com/stage/2012/may/01/shakespeare-had-help-thomas-middleton
  3. 
https://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/24/theater/l-shakespeare-by-committee-721050.html
  4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: The awful English language

[Roman Turovsky]

The computer analysis of Shakespeare’s vocabulary conducted some 20 years ago 
has determined that it matched the Warwickshire dialect. So all the conspiracy 
theories apropos have been blown out the water.
RT



Sent from my iPad

On Sep 17, 2018, at 12:40 PM, Ron Andrico  wrote:

  I'm familiar with Shapiro's work.  The authorship question indeed.  It
  is a question and not a given.  Some like to say the man from Stratford
  was the sole author of the tremendous output of the works of
  Shakespeare.  That is a theory that has yet to be proven, no matter
  what your scholars of English Renaissance literature like to propose.

  A thinking person considers that tremendous output and weighs it
  against the physical reality of the amount of time required to produce
  all that scribbling in light of the work a player like William
  Shakespeare was required to do in order to survive.   Then a thinking
  person considers how persons of noble rank would refrain from
  publishing their work (Sidney's work was published posthumously).  And
  a thinking person observes how authors and musicians would participate
  in a salon atmosphere under the patronage of someone like Lucy Countess
  of Bedford.

  I have had the opportunity to delve into the subject, and the evidence
  points to work produced by more than one author that retains a
  consistent voice due to a collaborative effort with a common goal.
  Like the collaborative effort that produced the King James Bible.

  What does this have to do with lute music anyway?
__

  From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
  of T.J. Sellari 
  Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 3:19 PM
  To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language

 Re: Shakespeare authorship question
 There are many theories that purport to cast doubt on Shakespeare's
 authorship of the plays attributed to him, but scholars of English
 Renaisssance literature consider them largely nonsense. I suggest
  you
 take a look at _Contested Will_ by James Shapiro. A review of the
  book
 can be found here:

  [1]https://www.theguardian.com/books/2010/mar/20/contested-will-who-wro
 te-shakespeare
 On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 7:16 PM Ron Andrico
  <[2]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  Absolument, Alain.   Many forget that the English court was
   actually
  French until the upstart Henry Tudor slaughtered his way to the
  throne.   Even then, French was spoken at court through much of
   the 16th
  century.
  As for the less-than-eloquent William Shakespeare,   it's just
   plain
  silly to think he actually wrote the canon commonly attributed
  to
   his
  name.   He was a player, a station lower than that of a
   professional
  musician.   We can support various theories of who wrote the
   works
  commonly attributed to Shakespeare, but my informed belief is
   that they
  were written by committee, just like the King James Bible was a
   few
  years hence.
  I think there is strong evidence that the plays arose from the
   circle
  surrounding Lucy Countess of Bedford, including the   likes of
   John
  Donne, Ben Jonson, Edmund Spenser, Samuel Danyel.   There is
  also
   a
  theory that the very literate Countess of Pembroke, Sir Philip
   Sidney's
  sister, may have dipped her quill in.
  William Shakepeare the playwright is a successful bit of
   propaganda
  that paved the way for other enormous lies that the public
  buys.
 It's
  really very easy for those in a position of power to promote an
   idea
  with PR and make the public believe it.   Like A=415 was
   historical
  baroque pitch, for instance.
   __
  From: [3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
  <[4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   on behalf
  of Alain Veylit <[5]al...@musickshandmade.com>
  Sent: Monday, September 17, 2018 8:37 AM
  To: howard posner; Lute net
  Subject: [LUTE] Re: The awful English language
  If you really want to have a blast at the awful English
  language,
   look
  for something called "law French", a language understood only
  by
  English
  lawyers and very much alive until at least the 18th century. It
   makes
  modern legaleeze sound simple, although still difficult to read
   because
  in very small letters. Many poor people sent to the gallows had
   no idea
  what was said at court...
  Joke aside, given the introduction of many French words into
   English
  (500 words from Montaigne's translator alone) and the still
   fairly
  strong presence of 

[LUTE] "455th Mode" - Raga Kiev

[Roman Turovsky]

BTW,
I realize that I haven't posted any vindaloo here in a while, and I have 
at least a dozen new Ukrainian and Danish ragas by Trond Bengtson, 
Stuart Walsh and Diego Leveric on my Youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/lute88/videos?view=0=dd=grid
RT



On 8/10/2018 11:17 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Thanks Dan for the input.

What do I want? Share this with musicians for improved music making 
experiences.

I want to bring attention to the idea, not to myself.
As I said many times - if someone wants to dig with me, go ahead and 
find interesting stuff and tell us.


I'm addressing the lute list, since this is about Early Music and lute 
music.






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[LUTE] Re: The illusory truth effect [was: Re: Francesco//Siena 62 - "5th Mode" - Raga Kamod

[Roman Turovsky]

Harmonium lends itself to Ukrainian music amazingly well!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCtpFZ4LuN4
RT


On 8/10/2018 7:41 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:

Dear Tristan,
The Harmonium isn't traditionally used Indian Classical music:
In Indian music, only the Swaras (notes) Pa and Sa are set on exact
points. The other Sawaras vary within ranges called Swarakshetras. The
maximal and minimal points are called Shrutis, and there are 22 of
them. When using different Ragas, different Shrutis are used for each
Swara. The Harmonium is equal-tempered, and as so, cannot operate with
in that natural environment of Indian Classical music.
Also, historically, the Harmonium became popular in India during the
mid-late 19 century, due to portability and ease of play.




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[LUTE] Re: The illusory truth effect [was: Re: Francesco//Siena 62 - "5th Mode" - Raga Kamod

[Roman Turovsky]

I don't about others, but it seems an awfully vegetarian curry to me.
RT


On 8/10/2018 10:02 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

So, officially I ask the list:
Does anyone of you support anything I say?




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[LUTE] De Temporum Ragas - Ukraine

[Roman Turovsky]

Dear friends,
do not neglect the fact that Chris Wilke and I are producing our 2nd CD
of Ukrainian Baroque-Lute Ragas -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJAtEUnckps

and the recording sessions have occurred last weekend in New York City!
Your rupees can support the editing:

https://www.gofundme.com/de-temporum-fine-volume-2

Cheers!
RT








Am 10.08.2018 um 15:24 schrieb Martyn Hodgson:

    Many months ago I decided to flag Tristan von Neumann's emails as
    spam.  He appeared impervious to reasoned thought and only 
wished to
    put across a cranky assertion based on very little actual hard 
evidence
    rather than his coincidental speculation. I even wondered 
whether the

    whole thing was so far-fetched as to be a spoof..
    So I've only now caught up with the latest developments through the
    thoughtful considered responses to the Lute List of people like 
you and

    Jurgen Frenz.  I too see no reason to change my final comment to
    Neumann (pasted below) made in April last and the spam filter will
    continue.
    Martyn Hodgson
---
    -





  2 Apr at 12:10 PM







    To T[1]ristan von Neumann [2]lutelist Net
    Thank you for this.  As I understand it your basic thesis is that,
    because there
    appears to be some similarities, various European early musical 
forms

    must
    have been directly copied at the time (and appropriated by 
Monteverdi

    and
    others) from existing music found on the subcontinent.
    It will certainly be instructive to read your promised full and
    properly developed
    paper on this matter. In which refereed scholarly journal are you
    seeking to have
    it published? - and when will it appear?
    Incidentally, I'm sure you will be aware of a basic rule of formal
    logic employed
    in any recognised objective  analysis: - correlation does not imply
    causation.  A
    mistaken belief that correlation signifies causation is, as you 
will

    also be aware,
    a questionable cause logical fallacy.   No doubt you will, 
therefore,

    rigorously
    address this particularly relevant matter in your forthcoming 
paper.

    Martyn Hodgson
__

    From: Ido Shdaimah 
    To: lutelist Net 
    Sent: Friday, 10 August 2018, 12:46
    Subject: [LUTE] Re: The illusory truth effect [was: Re:
    Francesco//Siena 62 - "5th Mode" - Raga Kamod
  Dear Tristan,
  The Harmonium isn't traditionally used Indian Classical music:
  In Indian music, only the Swaras (notes) Pa and Sa are set on 
exact
  points. The other Sawaras vary within ranges called 
Swarakshetras.

    The
  maximal and minimal points are called Shrutis, and there are 
22 of
  them. When using different Ragas, different Shrutis are used 
for each

  Swara. The Harmonium is equal-tempered, and as so, cannot operate
    with
  in that natural environment of Indian Classical music.
  Also, historically, the Harmonium became popular in India 
during the

  mid-late 19 century, due to portability and ease of play.
  I think one of the biggest problems with your theory is that 
if Raags

  and CI music theory was so well known in the west, then we would
  probably have ample evidence of that use, like mentions in theory
  treatises.
  You also need to consider another, more practical issue: such 
a deep
  musical exchange you suggest can only happen if there is 
EXTENSIVE
  direct contact between the two cultures. You aren't suggesting 
here
  that one composer used IC theory in his composition, but ALL 
of them.

  This would mean every single composer would have had to have deep
  knowledge of IC music, and that would require a much bigger 
contact.

  Even these days with the ease of communication and knowledge
  acquisition, most classical composers are generally oblivious 
about

    IC
  theory.
  Finally, if you really want your hypothesis evaluated you have to
    write
  it down and  clearly compare structures from Western pieces to 
Raags,
  using both Western and IC theory terminology (Shrutis, Swaras, 
Raags,

  Chalan, Tala, all that from the IC side). Right now what you are
    doing
  is creating a mesh up then expecting everybody to hear what 
tou heard
  without providing any vigorous explanation. Maybe it's telling 
that

    no
  body else seems to hear what you hear.
  P. S.
  Are my messages coming out indented correctly?
  On Fri, Aug 10, 2018, 05:40 Tristan von Neumann
  <[1][3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
    Dear Jurgen,
    do you consider this an illusion too?

[2][4]https://soundcloud.com/tristan-von-neumann/siena-nos-59-63-62-rag
    a-kamod-eri-jaane-na-doongi-nirali-kartik
    How do you explain this? Listen to the *tonal* percussion 

[LUTE] Re: prostitution

[Roman Turovsky]

well, there are still "two-bit" deals out there, but those are too 
risky, in this day and age.

RT


On 8/10/2018 10:41 AM, Daniel Winheld wrote:
I can't even remember when 2 cents would get me anything  at all, with 
a lady and her lute.

DW
On 8/10/2018 7:38 AM, r.turov...@gmail.com wrote:

You have truly long reaching memories!
RT

Sent from my iPhone


On Aug 10, 2018, at 8:13 AM, Luca Manassero  wrote:

   As far as I remember, a lady walking with a lute in Venezia (XVIth
   century) was considered a prostitute.
   My 2 cents,
   Luca
    On ven, 10 ago 2018 12:57:44 +0200
   r.turov...@gmail.com wrote 

   Lute in a brothel was a large Dutch sarcasm, lute being a symbol of
   domestic harmony in the baroque visual symbolism.
   Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 9, 2018, at 6:25 PM, Alain Veylit

   <[1]al...@musickshandmade.com> wrote:

There is a piece in Dd.2.11 entitled: "Catin" (by Orlando di Lasso!).
   Yesterday I saw one entitled "la pute". What are the odds that 
neither

   title would not refer to their modern meaning of "prostitute"?

This also reminds me of the not so secret behind "green sleeves".
   Dutch paintings show many scenes of lute music with at least 
hints of

   seduction or prostitution.

But it can also be easy to jump to conclusions. I thought Lasso was a

   rather serious composer...

Alain



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   --

References

   1. mailto:al...@musickshandmade.com
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[BAROQUE-LUTE] [Baroque Lute]: De Temporum Fine - Volume 2

[Roman Turovsky]

   Dear friends,
Chris Wilke, Slavko Halatyn and I would like to let you know that
the Volume 2 of the De Temporum Fine Postludia is in production!
[1]https://youtu.be/SJAtEUnckps

Your support is heartily appreciated:
[2]https://www.gofundme.com/de-temporum-fine-volume-2

RT

   --

References

   1. https://youtu.be/SJAtEUnckps
   2. https://www.gofundme.com/de-temporum-fine-volume-2


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[LUTE] De Temporum Fine - Volume 2

[Roman Turovsky]

   Dear friends,

Chris Wilke, Slavko Halatyn and I would like to let you know that
the Volume 2 of the De Temporum Fine Postludia is in production!

Your support is heartily appreciated:
[1]https://www.gofundme.com/de-temporum-fine-volume-2

[2]https://youtu.be/SJAtEUnckps

RT

   --

References

   1. https://www.gofundme.com/de-temporum-fine-volume-2
   2. https://youtu.be/SJAtEUnckps


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[LUTE] Re: Starting Theorbo

[Roman Turovsky]

http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo.html
better URL!
RT



On 7/10/2018 6:55 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

try some of mine -
http://polyhymnion.org/theorbo.html
RT



On 7/10/2018 6:11 PM, George Arndt wrote:

    Dear Collected Wisdom:

    I have rented a small theorbo from the American Lute Society for one
    year to learn how to play it. What easy pieces do you recommend I 
begin

    with?

    Thanks in advance,

    George Arndt

    george.ar...@hotmail.com

    --


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[LUTE] Re: Starting Theorbo

[Roman Turovsky]

try some of mine -
http://polyhymnion.org/theorbo.html
RT



On 7/10/2018 6:11 PM, George Arndt wrote:

Dear Collected Wisdom:

I have rented a small theorbo from the American Lute Society for one
year to learn how to play it. What easy pieces do you recommend I begin
with?

Thanks in advance,

George Arndt

george.ar...@hotmail.com

--


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[LUTE] Re: Why Bach needed to see Buxtehude

[Roman Turovsky]

The Channel in question is set up by your own distributor, so you'd have
to sue him/her directly!))
RT


On 6/29/2018 11:35 AM, David van Ooijen wrote:

>
> If You like some examples, listen to David van Ooijen and Michiel
> Niessen's Terzi album
> [1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y4DWm24ah0

I think to use my name for a YouTube channel and to upload tracks from
commercially available CDs, without een asking, is a violation of
copyright, and certainly downright impolite. The latter is worse,
obviously, so please remove both my name from the YouTube channel and
the CD-track from YouTube.
David

--

References

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Y4DWm24ah0


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[LUTE] Re: Conradi Sonata in C Major - source?

[Roman Turovsky]

It seems the consensus is that Conradi was the publisher, but not the 
composer,

who remains unidentified.
RT


On 6/2/2018 12:23 PM, Luca Manassero wrote:

Thank you, Ed.
In the meantime I got a few copies, but I'll order the facsimile by
Tree Editions. I knew Conradi already, but wasn't aware that we have
such a tiny bit of his music.
Luca
 On sab, 02 giu 2018 14:07:30 +0200 Edward Martin
 wrote 

You are correct Luca, Tree editions has the book.  There are 3 basic
works, a suite in C Major, a suite in A major, and 2 incidental pieces
in d minor.  It is indeed fabulous music, and it is frustrating that
there are not more pieces.
ed
On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 4:33 AM Luca Manassero <[1]l...@manassero.net>
wrote:

   Dear Lute list,

 I suddenly felt in love with the Conradi Sonata in C Major as

   Roberto Barto plays it in this

   video: [1][2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU

   Can anybody please point me to the right facsimile or manuscript for

   it?

   Is it the Leipzig III.10.34 reprinted by Tree Editions?

   Thank you in advance,

   Luca

   --

References

   1. [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU

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--

References

1. mailto:l...@manassero.net
2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jz6AfKH4KU
4. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Verner Ravn

[Roman Turovsky]

   "VERNER RAVN" - a Danish ballad with 4 doubles for solo theorbo, for
   your perusal and delectation -

   [1]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/vernerravn-theorbo.pdf

   [2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/vernerravn-theorbo.mp3
   Enjoy! Amities, RT

References

   1. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/vernerravn-theorbo.pdf
   2. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/vernerravn-theorbo.mp3


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[LUTE] A Ukrainian Stabat Mater

[Roman Turovsky]

for your perusal and delectation,
in the versions for solo theorbo -

http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/cherez-pole-theorbo.pdf
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/cherez-pole-theorbo.mp3

or archlute (or 10course) -
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/archlute/cherez-pole-arciliuto2.pdf
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/archlute/cherez-pole-arciliuto2.mp3

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT



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[LUTE] Re: Meaning of title "Silva de Sirenas"

[Roman Turovsky]

Definitely not.
Stephen Fryer is correct -
A Forest of Sirens, a poetic title.
RT


On 4/11/2018 5:10 PM, d.p.medve...@gmail.com wrote:

I am not an expert in Spanish but, as far as I understand, "silva" means
simply "collection" (primarily of poetry, but in this case of music).
It probably derives from the Latin word for "forest" (as a "collection" of
trees), but I would not translate it literally.
There are a number of similar titles from about the same period:
"Silva de varios romances"
"Silva de poesía"
etc.
So, I would translate the title as "A collection [of songs] of the sirens".

Dmitry


-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  On Behalf Of
Jurgen Frenz
Sent: Wednesday, April 11, 2018 4:36 PM
To: Lute List 
Subject: [LUTE] Meaning of title "Silva de Sirenas"

Hello there,

another thread on this list motivated me to ask - the title of
Valderrabano's publication "Silva de Sirenas" renders if latin was the
source language "Arctic Forest" which I would find hard to believe and
_nothing_ when setting Google translate to Spanish as source.

artic google.png

Hence my suspicion that 500 year old Spanish was using words
differently. But what does the title mean in English (German/French)
today? Would anybody know?

Thanks for helping, best wishes

Jurgen

--
"There is a voice that doesn't use words. Listen."

JalÄl ad-DÄ«n Muhammad Rumi


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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Liten Hilda

[Roman Turovsky]

   For your 13course perusal and delectation,
   Liten Hilda, a Swedish ballad with 3 doubles -
   [1]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/scand/hilda-baroque.mp3
   [2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/scand/hilda-baroque.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT
   --

References

   1. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/scand/hilda-baroque.mp3
   2. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/music/scand/hilda-baroque.pdf


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[LUTE] Theorbo

[Roman Turovsky]

   Dear theorbist friends, I now have 30 pieces for solo theorbo, with 4
   videos by Rob MacKillop and Peter Damsma at
   [1]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo.html Newly added is Горлиця
   (Mourning Dove), a sprightly Ukrainian dance with 3 doubles -

   [2]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/ghorlycja-theorbo.mp3

   [3]http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/ghorlycja-theorbo.pdf
   Enjoy, RT

References

   1. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo.html
   2. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/ghorlycja-theorbo.mp3
   3. http://polyhymnion.org/swv/theorbo/images/ghorlycja-theorbo.pdf


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[LUTE] Re: New post on Unquiet Thoughts

[Roman Turovsky]

always thought Tony Rooley was a bit of a charlatan.
RT


On 3/24/2018 11:03 AM, Ron Andrico wrote:

After a long hiatus, we have finally posted the first in our new series
of Saturday morning quotes.

[1]https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy

Ron & Donna

--

References

Visible links
1. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy

Hidden links:
3. https://wp.me/p15OyV-4jy


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[LUTE] Re: Some questions

[Roman Turovsky]

and what are the exceptions, in your opinion?
RT




On 15/03/2018 00:16, howard posner wrote:

  Maybe because, firstly much of the music composed for lute today is
   incredibly trite and uninteresting when set against the works of the
   great composers of the renaissance and the baroque period




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[LUTE] Re: Francesco or da Crema

[Roman Turovsky]

I recall a conversation with Pat O'Brien about dC many years ago, and he 
said there was a lot of plagiarism in his works.

RT


On 2/20/2018 3:45 AM, Martin Shepherd wrote:

Hi Leonard,

They could be derived from a common model, such as a recercar by 
Giulio Segni (da Modena).  A more explicit case of this is Ness 88, 
which is very close to no.16 in DaCrema's 1548 book, where it is 
attributed to Julio da Modena.  It appears in Ness as Appendix 15.  
Julio Segni (1498-1561) was a highly regarded organist who worked at 
St Mark's in Venice from 1530-1533, and subsequently worked in Rome.  
Very little of his music survives, but his works had a considerable 
influence on many lutenists.


Ness 84 also has some passages in common with Ness 51 and Ness 73 as 
well - some ideas seem to be common currency.


Best wishes,

Martin

On 19/02/2018 22:35, Leonard Williams wrote:
I’ve just been playing through some recent da Crema recercars 
(Lutezine Supp 123) and found No. 11 (p 37) remarkably similar to 
Francesco da Milano's  (Ness) No. 84 (Lute News 107 Supp).  I believe 
the only difference is barring and the last couple of measures.
Could someone more musicologically savvy than I put ears and eyes 
to these and tell me whose compositions they are?


Thanks and regards,
Leonard Williams



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[BAROQUE-LUTE] Ballo Ungherese "Czeretöm a tánzba"

[Roman Turovsky]

"Czeretöm a tánzba" for Baroque Lute, in 6/8+2, not for faint-hearted!
http://torbanorg/czeretom/czeretom-baroque.mp3
http://torbanorg/czeretom/czeretom-baroque.pdf
Enjoy!
Amities,
RT




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[LUTE] Re: Cherbury lute book

[Roman Turovsky]

All of Europe's population was drunk all the time, until 1683, when 
coffee was adopted

from the Turks.
RT


   Wasn't Dowland fired by King Christian of Denmark for being drunk
all
   the time? Could it be then considered that playing ‘stoned' was more
   ‘authentic'?
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   The Sleep of Reason Produces Monsters
   Francisco Goya
   On Feb 2, 2018, at 5:26 AM, fournierbru <[1]fournier...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
 the Montreal community will be able to get stoned legay as of
   july
 1st...personally at 59..I am no longer interested..prefer playing
 Ballard and Gaultier
 Bruno
 Envoyé de mon appareil Samsung de Bell via le réseau le plus vaste
au
 pays.
  Message d'origine 
 De : Dan Winheld <[2]dwinh...@lmi.net>
 Date : 18-02-01 8:44 PM (GMT-05:00)
 À : Susan Sandman <[3]susan.sand...@gmail.com>, Tristan von
Neumann
 <[4]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
 Cc : lutelist Net <[5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
 Objet : [LUTE] Re: Cherbury lute book
 They are legalizing Marijuana all over the place, come to
California
   if
 you want to get stoned! (I gave up that little distraction decades
   ago,
 but I also much prefer Ballard). :-D
 Dan
 On 2/1/2018 5:15 PM, Susan Sandman wrote:
Stoning is medieval, appropriate only hundreds of years
before...
Susan
On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 6:46 PM Tristan von Neumann
<[1][6]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
  Do I get stoned by the community if I say that I like Ballard
 more
  anyway? :)
  Am 02.02.2018 um 00:36 schrieb Jean-Marie Poirier:
 En guise de conclusion ;-) :
 If you look at the chronological development of Ennemond's
 career
  and life, his "his high reputation" as a baroque lute super
 hero
  simply doesn't hold.
 So there must be other material around to explain this
 phenomenon.
 Cherbury is only one piece in the puzzle and certainly not
 the
  most interesting one concerning old Ennemond! There is a lot
 more to
  see and play in at least a dozen other ms. and of course his
  production in accords nouveaux is another essential aspect of
 the
  problem.
 Merci de votre intà ©rà ªt et la "chasse" continue... :-)!
 Best,
 Jean-Marie
 Le 1 fà ©vr. 2018 à  22:53, G. C. <[2][7]kalei...@gmail.com>
 a à ©crit
  :
PS.
And of course, I meant to say "you and Jean-Marie"
 SORRY! :D
On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:27 PM, G. C.
  <[1][3][8]kalei...@gmail.com> wrote:
 Great that you feel that way, Ron. I'm just saying,
 that
  comparing to
 what there is of real quality music for the lute
 out
  there, and
  trying
 to keep in mind, the "high reputation" of Ennemond
  Gaultier, I'm
  sadly,
 not at all impressed by these alleged simple
 courantes
  and voltas
  in
 Cherbury. Whatever his fame might otherwise be,
  these little
  pieces
 just don't cut the mustard IMHO.
 But if you, as a renowned player, recognise
 Ennemond's
  style in
  those
 little ditties, I'm definitely not going to argue.
 :)
 Best
 G
 On Thu, Feb 1, 2018 at 10:09 PM, Ron Andrico
  <[1][2][4][9]praelu...@hotmail.com>
 wrote:
  G, I think you may have misunderstood my
 message.
I was
  not
   saying
  there were concordances in the CNRS edition of
  Vieux
  Gaultier
   that
  definitely linked pieces in Herbert to the
 proper
  Gaultier.
 I
   said
  that one could easily identify the style of
 music
  in that
  edition
   and
  compare to the sparse style of the Herbert
 pieces
  attributed
  to
  Gaultier. From a player's point of view, I
 feel
  a very
  strong
  similarity, and one only has to supply
 ornamented
  repeats in
  the
   proper
  style to flesh out the 

[BAROQUE-LUTE] El Cant Dels Ocells

[Roman Turovsky]

Mes amics,
For your perusal and delectation,
a set of Variations on "El Cant Dels Ocells", a Catalan folk song:
http://polyhymnion.org/swv/ocells.html
in three versions: for baroque lute, archlute, or theorbo.
Enjoy!
RT






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[LUTE] Re: four and twenty

[Roman Turovsky]

in Eastern Slavic languages that break is at 20.

RT

On 1/29/2018 10:03 AM, mjlh...@cs.dartmouth.edu wrote:

Interestingly in Catalan the break seems to occur between sixteen and
seventeen - quinze, setze, disset, perhaps because it is half way
between Italian and Spanish. In Latin from which both languages derive
it seems to come between ten and eleven - decem, undecim.
No obvious logic. Not that this has much to do with the lute.
Monica

Original Message
From: arc...@verizon.net
Date: 29/01/2018 13:43
To: 
Subj: [LUTE] Re: four and twenty

Rainer & other linguaphiles--

I find it interesting that different languages have different
"breakpoints" in the teens: Spanish between 15 and 16 (quince,
dieciseis), Italian 16 and 17 (seidici, diciassette), English 12 and
13
(twelve, thirteen)--the ones I know.  What's that about?

Leonard Williams
-Original Message-
From: Rainer 
To: Lute net 
Sent: Mon, Jan 29, 2018 4:38 am
Subject: [LUTE] four and twenty
A clarification:
I always thought that there must have been (sort of) an official
reform.
At least teachers must have a common opinion what to teach children.
Apparently there was none in England.
In Germany from time to time "mathematicians" propose to change the
German system since the current system makes learning Math hard for
the
children.
Of course, this has nothing to do with mathematics :)
I guess such a reform (in Germany) would be very confusing for
several
decades.
Switching from shillings and pennies to 100 pence per pound must
have
been hard.
Do many people still think in yards, miles, pints, ...?
Cheers,
Rainer
PS
A new standard kilogram will probably come soon.
PPS
Coming back to lute matters: most people describe string tensions in
terms of Kg which is plain nonsense since Kg is the unit of matter.
What should be used is Kilopond which is equal to the magnitude of
the
force exerted by one kilogram of mass in a 9.80665 m/s2
gravitational
field.
However, officially kilopond should not be used any more (since
c1980).
I still prefer to talk about a tension of 3 Kilopond instead of 29.4
Newton :)
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[LUTE] Re: Early Music life

[Roman Turovsky]

On my memory - Sylvain Bergeron did a bar gig in NYC some years ago.
RT


On 1/3/2018 9:03 AM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:



On Jan 3, 2018, at 8:41 AM, Tristan von Neumann  
wrote:

Happy New Year to all who are on the European calendar.


Here's one question - is there any noticeable Early Music life going on in your 
neighborhood, besides the 19th/20th century concert context (which I always 
find a bit awkward)?

The Greater Cleveland area is fortunate in that regard: Apollo’s Fire (The 
Cleveland Baroque Orchestra), Les Delices, Case Western Early Music Program, 
Quire, Burning River Baroque, Oberlin nearby



Ever heard of a bar where there are Early Music jam sessions?

Ronn McFarlane played in a restaurant here once.

Have you ever seen Early music picknicks in the park or in the woods?

Renaissance Faires count?

Do you play table music at your own private dinner parties?

Yes! https://youtu.be/herltcj1i_0 



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[LUTE] Re: New music

[Roman Turovsky]

   I have a couple of Tom Waits songs worked up on baroque lute, but that
   is an entirely different brow level!
   RT

   On 12/25/2017 1:15 PM, Ron Andrico wrote:

   Interesting that you mention Taylor Swift and the lute.  A sound
   engineer who twists knobs for her live shows discovered our music and
   is now a regular Mignarda concertgoer, even hiring us for on demand
   performances.  He said that, while he is a dedicated professional and
   very good at his work, when he's off-duty he wants to hear honest,
   direct, and convincing music.  We're OK with that.

   RA
 __

   From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [2]<lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf of Roman Turovsky [3]<r.turov...@gmail.com>
   Sent: Monday, December 25, 2017 3:53 PM
   To: Ido Shdaimah; lutelist Net
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music

   If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look
   for
   another
   instrument for myself.
   Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that
   permeates the
   commercial mass culture.
   Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash
   against mass production,
   and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
   RT
   On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:
   > Interesting mail, Tristan.
   > While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute
   flourish in
   > the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is
   actually
   > in more popular types of music.
   > I think a few factors might block that though:
   > 1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his
   videos (If
   > I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and
   that
   > fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people
   don't
   > know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
   > 2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or
   want to
   > buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced
   Pakistani
   > lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough,
   would
   > do wonders to the lute world.
   > 3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of
   the old
   > music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example)
   suddenly
   > started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would
   > definitely see a large influx of new players. Having
   intabulations of
   > popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to
   bring
   > the instrument out of obscurity.
   > The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems
   of
   > French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool
   (but
   > obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and
   warm
   > tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my
   opinion).
   > I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above
   problems.
   > On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
   > [4]<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:
   >
   >   This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to
   >   explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
   >   Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and
   more
   >   of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh
   no -
   >   back in the pundaemonium...)
   >   1. The audience for Early Music (even really early music) is
   bigger
   >   than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik").
   >   Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general
   audience,
   >   you can always assume it is because of a great sense of
   traditional
   >   tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely
   >   popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences.
   >   In Europe, there's Arvo Pärt who left the path of atonality
   and
   >   serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well
   based in
   >   the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for
   >   example).
   >   Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an
   even
   >   more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass standpoint)
   >   Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part
   of
   >   the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others
   have
   >   treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move:
   >   By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of
   >   popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of
   time for
   >  

[LUTE] Re: New music

[Roman Turovsky]

If Taylor Swift ever picks up a lute - I'd be sorely tempted to look for 
another

instrument for myself.
Lute has been (at least to some of us) an antidote for kitsch that 
permeates the

commercial mass culture.
Such reactions are not limited to lutes. There has a huge backlash 
against mass production,

and a resurgence of the handmade in all other art fields.
RT


On 12/25/2017 8:12 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:

Interesting mail, Tristan.
While many of us (including me) would like to see the lute flourish in
the world of modern classical music, maybe its best chance is actually
in more popular types of music.
I think a few factors might block that though:
1. Obscurity: Sterling Price gave an anecdote in one of his videos (If
I recall correctly), where he told someone he plays the lute, and that
fellow thought he was referring to the flute. Yes, many people don't
know what is a lute or don't know that it's still played today.
2. Price: Like you mentioned, not everyone can even afford (or want to
buy) Luth Dore lutes, but most would stay clear of overpriced Pakistani
lutes. Something like Yamaha guitars; cheap but playable enough, would
do wonders to the lute world.
3. Available repertoire, which lacks two things: popularity of the old
music and modern popular music. If Taylor Swift (for example) suddenly
started playing the lute on stage and had songs for it, we would
definitely see a large influx of new players. Having intabulations of
popular music to the lute is not enough, it's also important to bring
the instrument out of obscurity.
The lute does have a lot of advantages such as the easy systems of
French and Italian tablature. The availability of a lot of cool (but
obscure) repertoire. Its portability and its sweet, delicate and warm
tone more suitable to the human voice than the guitar (in my opinion).
I'm not sure if all these are enough to tackle the above problems.
On Dec 23, 2017 02:08, "Tristan von Neumann"
<[1]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de> wrote:

  This is probably too pessimistic, for reasons I will now try to
  explain I hope in a deeper look at today's music.
  Of course this is just an educated guess, not a prophecy, and more
  of an encouragement. The Lutists ultimately set the course. (oh no -
  back in the pundaemonium...)
  1. The audience for Early Music (even really early music) is bigger
  than the "New Music" ("Neue Musik").
  Whenever a composer is successfully appealing to a general audience,
  you can always assume it is because of a great sense of traditional
  tonality or modality. Philip Glass and John Adams seem widely
  popular in the US even among the non-classical audiences.
  In Europe, there's Arvo Pärt who left the path of atonality and
  serialism, and it seems the Spectralists of France are well based in
  the tradition of Debussy, Ravel and Messiaen (take Dalbavie for
  example).
  Therefore, an obscure instrument is just introduced into an even
  more obscure scene. (viewed from the mass standpoint)
  Such musical approach was at least until around 2000 also part of
  the film score scene. Jerry Goldsmith, John Williams and others have
  treated film scores as New Music. But here is the strong move:
  By forcing it onto millions of movie buffs, for the duration of
  popularity of this movie, there is a considerable amount of time for
  a good tune, a good theme, to leak out as a "cover version",
  establishing a basis even for canonification. Some are more
  successful than others.
  Compared to a First Performance of some fancy delicate atonal piece
  of chamber music in front of 100 people of whom 80 don't really get
  what is happening on the stage, it looks pretty obvious to me that
  though we all wish they were more popular, our little bubbles of
  special music do not represent the reality of most people.
  Star Wars, Star Trek, Lord of the Rings, indeed mostly fantastic
  movies contain a great deal of popular classical music today, which
  is probably the closest many people get to hearing a real orchestra.
  But this is actually a pretty good basis and should not be
  ridiculed.
  2. If you behold the big picture, the mass audience is completely
  going into a different direction. If you pick the most complex or
  well set music of "non-classical new music", there is:
  a) Metal, Progressive Rock, Post Rock - highly complex and often
  deliberately referring to Renaissance and Medieval music, embracing
  concepts of modes and even iso-rhythmia and counterpoint, though
  often very fast paced.
  b) IDM ("Intelligent Dance Music") - more closely related to "New
  Music", but occupying spaces classical performers almost never
  reach.
  Exceptions (to my knowledge of course) 

[LUTE] Re: New music

[Roman Turovsky]

I have heard it a few days ago, as it is available on Spotify.
I daresay it is Muhly's best, and his least modernist piece I've heard.
RT


On 12/22/2017 2:05 PM, Peter Martin wrote:

I think you've nailed it, Christopher.

By the way, has *anyone* else heard the Nico Muhly piece?

Peter

On Friday, 22 December 2017, Christopher Wilke
<[1]chriswi...@cs.dartmouth.edu> wrote:

  Newer music for the lute is a tough sell because it subverts
  audience expectations. I don't think it's too much of an assumption
  to say that most lute fans (both listeners and players) became
  interested in the instrument because they were attracted to early
  music first. Therefore, in this mindset, the lute is "for" early
  music and anything else introduces disconcerting cognitive
  dissonance. Some folks are genuinely offended that anyone would play
  something other than old European music on a lute. That's a
  significant enough segment of the already tiny lute audience that
  one risks alienating. That's a large disincentive to spend the time
  learning modern pieces, even for those interested in expanding the
  repertoire. (Personally, I've never seen it this way at all. To me,
  anything that sounds good on the instrument is fair game, regardless
  of style or period.)
  It's interesting that the harpsichord has not had this problem.
  There is a sizeable body of contemporary music for solo harpsichord
  as well as in ensemble compositions written by heavy weight
  composers. The late Elizabeth Chojnacka made virtually her entire
  career out of performing contemporary harpsichord music. (She passed
  away this past May.)
  Chris
  Dr. Christopher Wilke D.M.A.
   Lutenist, Guitarist and Composer
   [2]www.christopherwilke.com
  
  On Fri, 12/22/17, Tristan von Neumann <[3]tristanvonneum...@gmx.de>
  wrote:
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: New music
   To: "lutelist Net" <[4]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu>
   Date: Friday, December 22, 2017, 9:32 AM
   Not exactly "new", but modern:
   Charles Tournemire requests a lute in
   his 8th Symphony (1924) :)
   Not a piece you can play with your
   friends though, except if you are
   friends with a Philharmonic
   Orchestra...
   Am 22.12.2017 um 12:23 schrieb Jim
   Dunn:
   >   As the lute becomes
   slowly more popular, I think we'll see more
   >   contemporary lute
   music popping up equally slowly (I think lutes in
   >   their various guises
   have a very interesting tonality and set of
   >   limitations to
   compose for, I'm enjoying making my own ham-fisted
   >   efforts at
   least...)
   >   Meanwhile, not
   necessarily all 'new' material, but I've been enjoying
   >   Peter SÃ ¶derberg's
   three contemporary lute records:   20th century stuff
   >   like Cage, Tenney,
   Stockhausen etc, as well as recordings of more
   >   recent things
   written specifically for lute. The non-lute material he
   >   has selected comes
   over very well in my opinion.
   >   Here's to more!
   >
   >   On 22 Dec 2017,
   00:21 +, Eric Hansen <[5]librarylutepla...@gmail.com>,
   >   wrote:
   >
   > Hartt School
   composer David Macbride composes solo lute music for
   > me, a
   > total of 13
   pieces as of this writing. I played one of them at the
   > Lute Society
   Seminar in Cleveland a few years ago, it's up on
   > YouTube.
   > He and I have
   begun to record the pieces, a few at a time.
   > Best to all,
   > Eric
   > On Thu, Dec
   21, 2017 at 5:38 PM, Jacob Johnson
   > <[1][6]tmrguitar...@gmail.com>
   wrote:
   > I don't think
   that's entirely accurate. Ronn McFarlane plays his
   > own
   > compositions,
   Jakob Lindberg performs the Britten Nocturnal (I
   > know,
   > it's not that
   new, and it's not really for lute, but IMO it kinda
   > counts),
   Chris Wilke recorded a whole cd of Roman Turovsky's new
   > works
   > for baroque
   lute, I saw Elizabeth Kenny perform TWO recent
   > theorbo
   > commissions
   at the LuteFestWest, and there's certainly more
   > examples I
   > just can't
   think of at the moment.
   > As soon as I
   can afford to do so, I intend to commission some
   > works for
   > myself to
   play.
   > Jacob
   Johnson
   >
   [uc?export=download=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQ&
   >

[LUTE] Re: New music

[Roman Turovsky]

Apparently with considerable success.
So much so that he can support himself just performing it.
RT


On 12/21/2017 10:10 PM, Peter Hoar wrote:

Jozef van Wissem writes music for Baroque lute.

On 22 December 2017 at 13:43, Stephan Olbertz
<[1]stephan.olbe...@web.de> wrote:

  I like this one here by Dosia McKay, comissioned by Will Tocaben:
  [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6lgO_kWGzo
  And a nice chat with the composer:
  [3]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StxpE-7YrUY
  After 10 minutes it gets kind of funny when she talks about her love
  of
  Bach's bass lines...
  Regards
  Stephan
  -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
  Von: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:[5]lute-arc@cs.dartmouth.
  edu] Im Auftrag
  von Toby Carr
  Gesendet: Freitag, 22. Dezember 2017 00:32
  An: lutelist Net
  Betreff: [LUTE] Re: New music
 Matthew Wadsworth's latest CD included a new piece for theorbo by
 Stephen Goss that I think is worth mentioning, and I believe they
  have
 plans to continue that collaboration
 On 21 Dec 2017 23:16, "David van Ooijen"
  <[1][6]davidvanooi...@gmail.com>
 wrote:
  Like most (pro) lute players, I play, record and arrange my
  share
   of
  contemporary music, have some written for me even, but it's
  far
  outnumbered by early music.
  On Fri, 22 Dec 2017 at 00:12, Daniel Shoskes
  <[1][2][7]kidneykut...@gmail.com> wrote:
I highly recommend it. I commissioned a work from Ronn
   McFarlane and
I think it's one of his most beautiful:
[2][3][8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYgAAyMtgtE
<[3][4][9]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYgAAyMtgtE>
Ronn playing it live: [4][5][10]https://www.youtube.com/
   watch?v=Cz3j5muuVKc
<[5][6][11]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cz3j5muuVKc>
Recording:
[6][7][12]https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/passacaglia/
   878859427?i=8788594
69
<[7][8][13]https://itunes.apple.com/us/album/passacaglia/
   878859427?i=878859
469>
Also commissioned a version of Adon Olam from Rene
  Schiffer
   that is
in the form of a passacaglia with a theorbo part.
Let's keep them gainfully employed!
Danny
> On Dec 21, 2017, at 5:38 PM, Jacob Johnson

  <[8][9][14]tmrguitar...@gmail.com> wrote:
  >
  >   I don't think that's entirely accurate. Ronn
McFarlane
 plays
  his own
  >  compositions, Jakob Lindberg performs the Britten
 Nocturnal (I
  know,
  >  it's not that new, and it's not really for lute, but
IMO
 it
  kinda
  >  counts), Chris Wilke recorded a whole cd of Roman
 Turovsky's
  new works
  >  for baroque lute, I saw Elizabeth Kenny perform TWO
 recent
  theorbo
  >  commissions at the LuteFestWest, and there's certainly
 more
  examples I
  >  just can't think of at the moment.
  >  As soon as I can afford to do so, I intend to
commission
 some
  works for
  >  myself to play.
  >
  >  Jacob Johnson
  >

[uc?export=downloadid=0B6_gM3BRE6ZrYVVZZU5QNmJqdDQ&
   amp;revid=0B
6_g
>  M3BRE6ZraW9nQ2U4SGNwV0tYVWxobnNBVjBsZi9FNHhzPQ]
>  Guitar/Lute
>  [1][9][10][15]www.johnsonguitarstudio.com
>  [16][11]469.237.0625.
>  On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 4:12 PM, Christopher
  Stetson

  >  <[2][10][12][17]christophertstet...@gmail.com> wrote:
  >
  >   Hello all.
  >   An interesting question, Peter, thanks for
bringing
 it up.
  To
  >answer
  >   honestly and personally, I'm not especially
 interested in
  new
  >music,
  >   per se, for any of the instruments I play (mainly
 lute,
  guitar,
  >   mandolin, but some others too).   I couldn't
 really say
  why,
  >except
  >   that the music I've looked at from the last 30
years
  tends, and I
  >mean
  >   tends, to be difficult and not especially tuneful
to
 my
  ear.
  

[LUTE] Re: New music

[Roman Turovsky]

well, IMO there are grounds for cautious optimism in regard to new lute 
music:
first - quite a number of people have composed for lute intermittently, 
and some are  composing actively.

second - new lute music does get played, and even better: recorded.
third: Yours truly has two CD's on Amazon (and a lot of digital 
outlets), recorded by Chris Wilke, and Massimo Marchese,

both are world-class players:
https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps=%22roman+turovsky%22=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3A%22roman+turovsky%22
RT



On 12/21/2017 5:12 PM, Christopher Stetson wrote:

Hello all.
An interesting question, Peter, thanks for bringing it up.   To answer
honestly and personally, I'm not especially interested in new music,
per se, for any of the instruments I play (mainly lute, guitar,
mandolin, but some others too).   I couldn't really say why, except
that the music I've looked at from the last 30 years tends, and I mean
tends, to be difficult and not especially tuneful to my ear.   There
are exceptions, of course, and I play some of those, though mostly on
guitar.   I'm not a professional, so I tend to be fairly conservstive
in the music I choose to spend time seeking out and playing.   I also
don't play many of the old compositions that fit the above criteria.
I fully realize. however,   that one person's difficult is another
person's interesting, and I'm really glad that people are writing new
music for lute.
Best to all, and keep playing,
Chris.

On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 2:34 PM, Peter Martin <[1]peter.l...@gmail.com>
wrote:

 Hello all,
 I recently bought a Wigmore Hall Live CD of a 2013 concert by
 countertenor Iestyn Davies and lutenist Thomas Dunford.It
  included
 the world premiere performance of a substantial piece by Nico
  Muhly
 called Old Bones.Up to now, I'd never heard of it, which
  surprised
 me because Muhly is a very successful young American composer.
   His
 new opera Marnie has just premiered at English National Opera,
  and his
 previous opera Two Boys was given at ENO and at the Met in New
  York.
 The score of Old Bones is available from Music Sales.Yet I
  can't see
 that the lute world has paid the slightest attention to it.
 Which sets me wondering, not about Muhly as such, but about new
  music
 generally.With the honourable exception of Jacob Heringman,
  scarcely
 anyone plays it.Any thoughts on why this is?Are we simply
  not
 interested in new music?
 Peter
 --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. mailto:peter.l...@gmail.com
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

Besides the bridge spacing -
LLD 13course have flat fingerboards.
Normal baroque lutes have convex fingerboards which greatly facilitate 
barre', and fretting in general.

RT


On 10/18/2017 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah wrote:

Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount of
money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am eyeing Le
Luth Doré lutes, what is your take on these?
I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against them
because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear other
people on the issue too.
More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper and the
more expensive versions?
And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
on both or maybe play with nails?
Thanks in advance.

--


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Buying a Lute

[Roman Turovsky]

LeLuthDoree is planning to offer a small theorbo that can be easily 
strung as a baroque lute.
It actually might be a perfect instrument for a classical guitarist 
making the switch.

RT


On 10/18/2017 5:59 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

To answer your actual questions, I don’t think there are enough people who have 
played the Luth Dore baroque lutes to really get a balanced opinion. You might 
want to ask Rob MacKillop off line because he received an early model. Of 
course once they start to be mass produced one hopes there will be consistency 
between instruments. I don’t think you can make a blanket statement about 
bridge length. It really depends on your personal anatomy and how well the 
strings vibrate on the instrument. At that price point however there is little 
competition.

There are people who have filed their nails on an angle, allowing flesh only 
for lute playing and a flesh/nail interface for classical guitar and/or 
theorbo. Pat O’Brien was a prime example of someone who easily switched between 
all instruments in that way.  It’s actually the theorbo that has the hand 
position most similar to classical guitar, although there are differences for 
all the plucked lute family instruments. The primary difficulty with nails is 
cleanly striking both strings of a course together in unison. Especially that 
striking involves equal depression of both strings towards the soundboard and 
then follow through. A single strung theorbo avoids that problem, but you did 
say you wanted a baroque lute. Congratulations on that choice BTW, there is a 
surprising depth and breadth of music written in that tuning that traverses 
countries and styles. It’s truly a wonderful instrument and it has given me 
years of joy.

You didn’t say where you live. If in the USA or UK, the local lute societies 
have lute lending programs that would allow you to try out a lute first. If you 
could attend one of the many playing days in the UK or lute seminar in the USA 
you would have the chance to try multiple lutes with different sizes and 
configurations. More ideal than buying sight unseen, which sadly most of us end 
up doing in the end.

Danny


On Oct 18, 2017, at 2:58 AM, Ido Shdaimah <ishdai...@gmail.com> wrote:

   Hello fellow lute players and enthusiasts, I have a fair amount of
   money saved and I would like to buy a lute. Currently I am eyeing Le
   Luth Doré lutes, what is your take on these?
   I would like a baroque lute, but Roman Turovsky advises against them
   because of the 140cm bridge length, but I would like to hear other
   people on the issue too.
   More on these lutes: What is the difference between the cheaper and the
   more expensive versions?
   And finally, I currently play the classical guitar, and I'm not
   planning to give up on it. So what should I do concerning the
   nail/nail-less dispute? Should I find a middle ground, play nail-less
   on both or maybe play with nails?
   Thanks in advance.

   --


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: 13 corse baroque lute looking for a responsible owner :)

[Roman Turovsky]

140mm bridge width? Caveat emptor.
RT


On 10/3/2017 9:59 AM, anna kowalska wrote:

Dear Lute Friends,
This beautiful baroque lute is by Jacek Lozak and made to our
requirements, nicely set up with gut octaves.
[1]Log in or sign up to view
[facebook.png]

Log in or sign up to view

See posts, photos and more on Facebook.
 [2]https://www.facebook.com/pg/LUTE-DUO-Anna-Kowalska-Anton-Birula-www
luteduocom-193101590724180/photos/?tab=album_id=1695246587176332
Please let me know if interested.
Best regards, Anna
www.luteduo.com

--

References

Visible links
1. 
https://www.facebook.com/pg/LUTE-DUO-Anna-Kowalska-Anton-Birula-wwwluteduocom-193101590724180/photos/?tab=album_id=1695246587176332
2. 
https://www.facebook.com/pg/LUTE-DUO-Anna-Kowalska-Anton-Birula-wwwluteduocom-193101590724180/photos/?tab=album_id=1695246587176332

Hidden links:
4. 
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[LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

[Roman Turovsky]

for those who have MacPro towers -
these recognize Win keyboards.
RT


On 9/29/2017 4:35 PM, Daniel Shoskes wrote:

2 tips if you go the emulator route:

1) get a windows pdf creator program. It allows you to save the output as a pdf 
by “printing” using the program
2) there are a couple of keys that are found on the windoze keyboard that are 
not on the standard mac keyboard. An important one is “insert” which in Fronimo 
allows you to add notes in between 2 other existing notes. VMware has a feature 
that let’s you replicate those missing key strokes with a mouse click.



On Sep 29, 2017, at 2:54 PM, guy_and_liz Smith  wrote:

And for those of you who aren't familiar with application programming, porting 
a Windows App to Linux or OS X is a non-trivial exercise (as is porting an OS X 
app to Windows, and...).

When I had work with both Windows and Linux, I used two machines with a KVM 
switch that allowed me to use one keyboard/mouse/monitor and just switch them 
from one machine to the other. It saves a lot of space on your desk. You can 
probably find adequate Windows desktop machines for a good bit less than a 
comparable laptop, and KVM switches don't cost all that much.

Guy

-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ron Andrico
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 10:55 AM
To: John Mardinly; Ron Banks
Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

   Precisely, as I mentioned earlier...

   Francesco designed the program to run in Windows, for better or for
   worse.

   RA
 __

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of John Mardinly 
   Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 4:36 PM
   To: Ron Banks
   Cc: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] Re: Fronimo question

   Ron;
   Thank you for the informed comments. However, by the time you
   acquire Parallels or VmWare Fusion plus a copy of Windows, might it be
   cheaper and less hassle to just purchase a cheap laptop on Ebay,
   Craig’s list or whatever?
   A. John Mardinly, Ph.D., P.E.
   Classical Guitarist/Lutenist

On Sep 29, 2017, at 7:18 AM, Ron Banks  wrote:

Lynda,

I’m currently running both Fronimo 2.1 and 3.0 on my Mac and Linux

   (Ubuntu) systems using Wine (version 2.0.1).  My Macs are running OS X
   El Capitan, but I’ve also had success using Fronimo on OS X Yosemite.
   Other Mac Fronimo users might need to give their input on this, as I’m
   not really a Fronimo power user. For my needs, it runs well enough.

The setup under Wine can be a little finicky, and may take some

   tweaking to get things to run correctly - but if you’re persistent, it
   can be done.   If you’re comfortable using the command line on your
   Mac, Wine is the cheapest way to get Fronimo running.  There are some
   drawbacks to using Wine, as very few Windows apps run flawlessly in
   Wine – it’s usually a hit-and-miss affair.  If you’re not comfortable
   with the command line, there are a few “helper” apps to get started,
   such as WineSkin, WineBottler, (and WineTricks on Linux) that will
   allow you to tweak the Wine setup and application installation using a
   graphical interface.

If you’ve got additional Windows programs to run, I’d suggest using

   either VMware Fusion, Parallels, or Oracle VirtualBox to run Windows as
   a virtual machine on your Mac.   The down-side of using a Virtual
   Machine, is that you’ll need a licensed copy of Windows for the virtual
   machine.  Also, if your Mac is an older laptop like mine (2010-2012),
   running VM sessions can cause the laptop to run hotter than normal.  It
   will spin the hard drive and fans up constantly, and the additional
   heat may exacerbate issues with the GPU failures the older machines are
   prone to experience.  My Mac Pro doesn’t have that problem.

Take care,

Ron Banks

On 9/27/17, 10:51 PM, "Lynda Kraar"  wrote:

   Lute friends -
   How do I run Fronimo on a Mac?
   Thanks,
   Lynda



   To get on or off this list see list information at


   [1]https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth
   .edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n
   1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CgN
   tutmgmwU5F-9ylof9ZMdpK6eHfkrfdPxIPxi0BoQ=Hx0De5mVmu2ZPKrws1zk9eZxNsw0
   5OIHxbyKJy3lbPA=







   --

References

   1. 
https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.cs.dartmouth.edu_-7Ewbc_lute-2Dadmin_index.html=DwIFaQ=l45AxH-kUV29SRQusp9vYR0n1GycN4_2jInuKy6zbqQ=VLPJ8OE-c_C6joGeE1ftlvxMmQPq9N6mpKZONBRt90E=CgNtutmgmwU5F-9ylof9ZMdpK6eHfkrfdPxIPxi0BoQ=Hx0De5mVmu2ZPKrws1zk9eZxNsw05OIHxbyKJy3lbPA=

[LUTE] Re: Dances played like dances

[Roman Turovsky]

Because we like to think that we love music.
RT




On 9/2/2017 9:18 AM, Tristan von Neumann wrote:
I meant this probably early version from the Lute manuscript in 
Nuremberg.
The question remains: why is it that most lutists hold back when 
playing these kinds of dances as if there was no one dancing?


http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/78/jpg/1000

Also, this MS. contains some interesting German (?) dances I have not 
seen before, in the line of Demantius, Widmann or Haussmann, which 
also can be unleashed quite well (that is, rocking hard).

Some have a discant part.

http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/108/jpg/1000
http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/109/jpg/1000
http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/110/jpg/1000
http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/111/jpg/1000
http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/112/jpg/1000
http://dlib.gnm.de/item/Hs33748-1/113/jpg/1000



Am 02.09.2017 um 12:58 schrieb Rainer:
If you are talking about number 269 in Terpsichore, this is certainly 
drawn form a ballet performed at the court of Henri IV.


In Terpsichore it appears as "Ballet du Roy pour sonner apres." 
(Number 269).



In the Philidor MS F496 it appears (page 12) as

"Ballet des Sorciers. Dansé sous le regne de Henry - 4. en 1601."

Version for mandore: Skene, p. 83, " A Frenche".

Best wishes,

Rainer


On 02.09.2017 04:52, Tristan von Neumann wrote:

Hello Lutists,

why is it that when playing dance music, it always sounds more like
chillout music than actual dance music? Exaggerating here, but still.
Certainly, dances must have been played by one lutist for some dancers,
especially outdoors.
I realized that for example this "Ballet du Roy" (never look again 
for a

downsized Praetorius - does anyone know where this piece comes from?)
needs 120bpm and a hard swing i. e. inégales to lift someone off the
ground, to the point where you imagine a plucked jazz double bass. It
would be very interesting to have dancers react to that.

Happy dancing!
Tristan

--

To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: How late was Ren Lute music performed?

[Roman Turovsky]

Well, the change in barring from the J-bar to fan barring caused rather 
drastic change
to the acoustic qualities of lutes, and that in turn caused a rather 
drastic change in

tessitura and musical style.
RT


On 8/31/2017 1:02 PM, Christopher Wilke wrote:

Really interesting question Danny. One thing that surprises me about
when the new turnings developed is that more of the old music wasn't
adapted to them. (As far as I know.) Violinists have never stopped
playing Corelli or Bach despite significant changes through the years
to the construction of the instrument and bow. With the adoption of new
tunings, however, it looks like our guys essentially dropped the
majority of a legacy repertoire without much concern.

Imagine it: You're a lutenist back in the day who has just gone over to
the new tuning dark side. There are exciting things you can do with the
new tunings, but you don't exactly have hundreds of pieces from which
to choose. Even though the old pieces are a bit out of fashion
stylistically, aren't there a few favorites you'd like to keep? And
wouldn't it be a great exercise to learn the new fingerboard layout by
adapting some of the old pieces you've played for years?

This appears to be what Weiss did when he went from 11 to 13 courses.
It seems one of his first "compositions" for 13 courses was his
arrangement of Gallot's L'Amant Malheureux in London. Gallot's original
actually only uses 9 courses (it completely avoids the first two
courses). Weiss holds pretty closely to this in the A and B sections.
However, in the written-out ornamented repeats, he uses the newly
expanded open bass courses to free up the left hand to play filigree in
fairly high positions. Thus, it appears he used the architecture of a
piece that was well known to him (Weiss also left arrangements of the
L'Amant in Rohrau and Paris) as a platform to explore the resources of
the 13-course lute before composing much original music for it. Of
course, Weiss had an advantage because the two instruments share
11/13ths of the same language. It's amazing to see in this one piece
how the addition of just two extra notes could change the idiom.

I can't say I'm that familiar with the transitional period. Did more
figures from the period do more of this sort of thing than we think?

Chris

[1]Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone

On Thursday, August 31, 2017, 10:58 AM, Jean-Marie Poirier
 wrote:

A paper I wrote, initially for the French Lute Society will appear in
one of the next a LSA Quarterly, in Doug Towne's translation, and deals
partly with this subject...

All the best,

Jean-Marie

--

>Dear Musicological Hive Mind: I have often heard it said that we are
the first generation of lute players to play so many different
instruments and tunings, from medieval to 6-13 courses to theorbo,
archlute and romantic guitar. Obviously Dowland never played Weiss
(unless he had a Tardis) but do we have any evidence for how long
Renaissance lute music was played beyond the death of the composer?
Would you ever hear a concert that combined Dowland with Blow or
Purcell (to stay in one country)? Milano and Monteverdi? After the
transition, would a performer own lutes both in d minor and viel ton
tuning (aside from an archlute in Italy).

>

>If the answer is we don't know beyond personal opinion, that's fine
but I'm curious as to any surviving evidence.

>

>Thanks

>

>Danny

>

>

>

>To get on or off this list see list information at

>[2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

--

References

1. https://yho.com/footer0
2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Cantiones Lodomericae 75 - 78

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/522.mp3
   [2]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/522.pdf

   [3]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/521.mp3
   [4]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/521.pdf

   [5]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/520.mp3
   [6]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/520.pdf

   [7]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/519.mp3
   [8]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/519.pdf
   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT
   [9]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/518.mp3
   [10]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/518.pdf

   [11]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/517.mp3
   [12]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/517.pdf

   [13]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/516.mp3
   [14]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/516.pdf

   [15]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/515.mp3
   [16]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/515.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   [17]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/514.mp3
   [18]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/514.pdf

   [19]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/513.mp3
   [20]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/513.pdf
   [21]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/512.mp3
   [22]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/512.pdf
   [23]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/511.mp3
   [24]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/511.pdf
   [25]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/510.mp3
   [26]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/510.pdf
   [27]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/509.mp3
   [28]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/509.pdf
   [29]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/508.mp3
   [30]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/508b.pdf
   [31]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/507.mp3
   [32]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/507.pdf
   [33]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/506.mp3
   [34]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/506.pdf

   [35]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/505.mp3
   [36]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/505.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   On 3/22/2017 10:59 AM, Roman Turovsky [37]lu...@polyhymnion.org
   [Le_luth] wrote:

[38]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/504.mp3
[39]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/504.pdf

[40]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/503.mp3
[41]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/503.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT


On 2/25/2017 4:54 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

[42]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/502.mp3
[43]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/502.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT

On 2/24/2017 11:57 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

  The ballad of Dovbush, the Ukrainian Robin Hood -
[44]http://torban.org/audio/sadovska/dovbush.mp3 - sung by the great
  Mariana Sadovska.
  Two renaissance lute versions, in c and d:
[45]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/501.mp3
[46]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/501.pdf
[47]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/500.mp3
[48]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/500.pdf
  Enjoy!
  Amities,
  RT


   __,_._,___

   --

References

   1. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/522.mp3
   2. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/522.pdf
   3. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/521.mp3
   4. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/521.pdf
   5. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/520.mp3
   6. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/520.pdf
   7. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/519.mp3
   8. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/519.pdf
   9. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/518.mp3
  10. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/518.pdf
  11. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/517.mp3
  12. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/517.pdf
  13. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/516.mp3
  14. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/516.pdf
  15. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/515.mp3
  16. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/515.pdf
  17. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/514.mp3
  18. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/514.pdf
  19. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/513.mp3
  20. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/513.pdf
  21. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/512.mp3
  22. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/512.pdf
  23. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/511.mp3
  24. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/511.pdf
  25. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/510.mp3
  26. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/510.pdf
  27. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/509.mp3
  28. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/509.pdf
  29. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/508.mp3
  30. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/508b.pdf
  31. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/507.mp3
  32. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/507.pdf
  33. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/506.mp3
  34. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/506.pdf
  35. http

[LUTE] Cantiones Lodomericae 71 - 74

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/518.mp3

   [2]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/518.pdf

   [3]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/517.mp3
   [4]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/517.pdf

   [5]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/516.mp3
   [6]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/516.pdf

   [7]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/515.mp3
   [8]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/515.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   [9]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/514.mp3
   [10]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/514.pdf

   [11]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/513.mp3
   [12]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/513.pdf
   [13]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/512.mp3
   [14]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/512.pdf
   [15]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/511.mp3
   [16]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/511.pdf
   [17]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/510.mp3
   [18]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/510.pdf
   [19]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/509.mp3
   [20]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/509.pdf
   [21]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/508.mp3
   [22]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/508b.pdf
   [23]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/507.mp3
   [24]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/507.pdf
   [25]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/506.mp3
   [26]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/506.pdf

   [27]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/505.mp3
   [28]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/505.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   On 3/22/2017 10:59 AM, Roman Turovsky [29]lu...@polyhymnion.org
   [Le_luth] wrote:

[30]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/504.mp3
[31]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/504.pdf

[32]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/503.mp3
[33]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/503.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT


On 2/25/2017 4:54 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

[34]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/502.mp3
[35]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/502.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT

On 2/24/2017 11:57 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

  The ballad of Dovbush, the Ukrainian Robin Hood -
[36]http://torban.org/audio/sadovska/dovbush.mp3 - sung by the great
  Mariana Sadovska.
  Two renaissance lute versions, in c and d:
[37]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/501.mp3
[38]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/501.pdf
[39]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/500.mp3
[40]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/500.pdf
  Enjoy!
  Amities,
  RT





   --

References

   1. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/518.mp3
   2. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/518.pdf
   3. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/517.mp3
   4. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/517.pdf
   5. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/516.mp3
   6. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/516.pdf
   7. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/515.mp3
   8. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/515.pdf
   9. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/514.mp3
  10. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/514.pdf
  11. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/513.mp3
  12. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/513.pdf
  13. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/512.mp3
  14. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/512.pdf
  15. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/511.mp3
  16. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/511.pdf
  17. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/510.mp3
  18. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/510.pdf
  19. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/509.mp3
  20. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/509.pdf
  21. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/508.mp3
  22. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/508b.pdf
  23. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/507.mp3
  24. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/507.pdf
  25. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/506.mp3
  26. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/506.pdf
  27. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/505.mp3
  28. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/505.pdf
  29. mailto:lu...@polyhymnion.org
  30. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/504.mp3
  31. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/504.pdf
  32. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/503.mp3
  33. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/503.pdf
  34. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/502.mp3
  35. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/502.pdf
  36. http://torban.org/audio/sadovska/dovbush.mp3
  37. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/501.mp3
  38. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/501.pdf
  39. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/500.mp3
  40. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/500.pdf


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Massimo Marchese - "Dialogues with Time"

[Roman Turovsky]

   Dear friends!
   For those of you in Europe,
   Massimo Marchese's "Dialogues with Time",  DaVinci Edition CD has been
   released a few hours ago on EgeaMusic!
   [1]http://www.egeamusic.com/news.aspx?ID06810877890=0=MARCHESE+MASS
   IMO
   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT
   --

References

   1. 
https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http://www.egeamusic.com/news.aspx?ID=0806810877890=0=MARCHESE%20MASSIMO=ATNco78FFWe2x5isUOiGx0cfgiRhDREW1YSYwkk9odoTiwt6fz21ZSTD0-Tb2_msgza-Ppc55-TXL-PJEBST4MFT5R0B2awkcp-P6Qen1y3nNxKZgBXQf7mi5SPKJi6wX7RU7Q


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Cantiones Lodomericae 64 - 70

[Roman Turovsky]

   [1]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/514.mp3
   [2]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/514.pdf

   [3]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/513.mp3
   [4]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/513.pdf
   [5]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/512.mp3
   [6]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/512.pdf
   [7]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/511.mp3
   [8]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/511.pdf
   [9]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/510.mp3
   [10]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/510.pdf
   [11]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/509.mp3
   [12]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/509.pdf
   [13]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/508.mp3
   [14]http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/508b.pdf

   Enjoy!
   Amities,
   RT

   --

References

   1. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/514.mp3
   2. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/514.pdf
   3. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/513.mp3
   4. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/513.pdf
   5. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/512.mp3
   6. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/512.pdf
   7. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/511.mp3
   8. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/511.pdf
   9. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/510.mp3
  10. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/510.pdf
  11. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/509.mp3
  12. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/509.pdf
  13. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/508.mp3
  14. http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/508b.pdf


To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Cantiones Lodomericae LXI - LXII

[Roman Turovsky]

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/507.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/507.pdf

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/506.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/506.pdf

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/505.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/505.pdf

Enjoy,
Amities,
RT

On 3/22/2017 10:57 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/504.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/504.pdf

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/503.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/503.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT


On 2/25/2017 4:54 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/502.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/502.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT

On 2/24/2017 11:57 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

  The ballad of Dovbush, the Ukrainian Robin Hood -
http://torban.org/audio/sadovska/dovbush.mp3 - sung by the great
  Mariana Sadovska.
  Two renaissance lute versions, in c and d:
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/501.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/501.pdf
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/500.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/500.pdf
  Enjoy!
  Amities,
  RT





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Cantiones Lodomericae LIX et LX

[Roman Turovsky]

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/504.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/504.pdf

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/503.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/503.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT


On 2/25/2017 4:54 PM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/502.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/502.pdf

Enjoy!
Amities,
RT

On 2/24/2017 11:57 AM, Roman Turovsky wrote:

  The ballad of Dovbush, the Ukrainian Robin Hood -
http://torban.org/audio/sadovska/dovbush.mp3 - sung by the great
  Mariana Sadovska.
  Two renaissance lute versions, in c and d:
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/501.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/501.pdf
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/audio/500.mp3
http://www.torban.org/lodomericae/images/500.pdf
  Enjoy!
  Amities,
  RT





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

[LUTE] Re: Earliest printed tablature with ornaments

[Roman Turovsky]

Wikipedia has strict rules against original research, and all information
it permits has to externally documented with reliable scholarly sources.
RT


On 3/6/2017 7:31 AM, Rainer wrote:

Of course, Wiki is unreliable.
And - of course - there is no reason to believe the citation is 
incorrect.


However, why do you think I have asked for prints before 1596?

Barley has ornaments.

Rainer

As usual you have pressed reply to all :)

On 06.03.2017 12:32, Ron Andrico wrote:
   While Wikipedia is untrustworthy in most respects, in this case it 
may

   be correct.  While ornaments appear liberally in manuscript sources,
   and there are various indications for right-hand fingering and
   left-hand holds in earlier typeset prints of lute music, Vallet's
   tablatures were engraved in copper, a very costly procedure that
   probably contributed to his personal financial ruin.  But this was 
the
   only means of adding the extraordinarily detailed slurs, 
fingerings and

   ornament signs to his printed tablatures.  Since the statement
   attributed to Herr Neumann is qualified with "may have been", 
there is

   no reason to doubt the claim.

   RA
__

   From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu  on behalf
   of Rainer 
   Sent: Monday, March 6, 2017 10:49 AM
   To: Lute net
   Subject: [LUTE] Earliest printed tablature with ornaments

   Dear lute netters,
   According to Wikipedia
   "According to Frederick Neumann,[2] Vallet may have been among the
   first to introduce ornaments into lute tablature."
   Of course this is nonsense.
   Anyway, does anybody know of printed tablature with ornaments before
   1596?
   Rainer
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [1]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   [2]Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list
   www.cs.dartmouth.edu
   Frequently Asked Technical Questions about the lute mail list. 
getting

   on and off the list; How do I get on the lute mail list? How do I get
   off the lute mail list?

   --

References

   1. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html