[LUTE] Re: A440?

[Bruno Cognyl-Fournier]

   If your theorbo is tuned to A 430  that is in fact the same as playing
   G when tuned at 480 hz (more or less) , so if you play theorbo in G,
   which should be easy enough, all you have to do is tune down to G @ A
   440.
   if however A is a better key to realize the continuo for this Gig, then
   tuning up a quarter tone should be OK.
   Bruno

   2017-08-08 9:20 GMT-04:00 Gary Boye <[1]boy...@appstate.edu>:

Lute List,
Thanks for all of your advice on the Lully and A440 . . . I knew
 there
would be lots of opinions out there and sound practical advice.
I'm leaning towards tuning the theorbo to G; I'm familiar with
 the
tuning and think it should fit fairly well. I might also tune up
 to
440, but I've had some bad experiences with that in the
 past--ripped a
bridge off a baroque guitar using a mix of strings rather
 carelessly--I
made up my mind not to ignore string tensions after that! I also
 think
of Flatt and Scruggs, the old bluegrass band from the 1940s and
 '50s;
they played everything up a half step on their instruments in the
 early
years and then all of their instruments (banjo, guitar, fiddle,
mandolin, bass) developed problems, usually neck warping. But I'd
 be OK
with a little more tension on the theorbo; less so the guitar . .
 .
G theorbo seems to match the pieces well anyway.
Gary
On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Ron Andrico
 <[1][2]praelu...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
It's interesting how lutenists can get tangled up in the web of
complexities concerning string materials and tensions and the
 most
historically appropriate instrument for a particular style of
 music.
In an ideal world, it would be nice to time travel and play the
"correct" instrument for music of Lully, complete with unwashed
clothes, unbathed musicians, and a big jerk who keeps pounding
 his big
stick on the floor, drowning out any subtle flourishes you may
 wish to
add.You may even wish he would accidentally pound his own
 foot with
his stick and die of gangrene.
The point is the music, and we should be flexible and take
 advantage of
the opportunity to add our plucked strings and informed approach
whenever reasonably possible.I say tune it up and play
 musically.
RA
  
 __
From: [2][3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
 <[3][4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
behalf of Gary Boye <[4][5]boy...@appstate.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 12:47 AM
To: [5][6]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
Subject: [LUTE] A440?
Lute List members, Help!
I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le
 Bourgeois
Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque
guitar .
. . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of
 my
instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415).
My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage
 some
early
music performance here, so my only options would appear to
 be:
1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!)
2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo)
3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low
4) Tune high and risk it (!)
5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful)
It's frustrating, but again, I'd like the experience of doing
something
to encourage some early music performance here . . . Any
 thoughts
appreciated.
Gary
--
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Erneston Music Library
Appalachian State University
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[LUTE] Re: A440?

[Gary Boye]

   Lute List,
   Thanks for all of your advice on the Lully and A440 . . . I knew there
   would be lots of opinions out there and sound practical advice.
   I'm leaning towards tuning the theorbo to G; I'm familiar with the
   tuning and think it should fit fairly well. I might also tune up to
   440, but I've had some bad experiences with that in the past--ripped a
   bridge off a baroque guitar using a mix of strings rather carelessly--I
   made up my mind not to ignore string tensions after that! I also think
   of Flatt and Scruggs, the old bluegrass band from the 1940s and '50s;
   they played everything up a half step on their instruments in the early
   years and then all of their instruments (banjo, guitar, fiddle,
   mandolin, bass) developed problems, usually neck warping. But I'd be OK
   with a little more tension on the theorbo; less so the guitar . . .
   G theorbo seems to match the pieces well anyway.
   Gary

   On Tue, Aug 8, 2017 at 8:04 AM, Ron Andrico <[1]praelu...@hotmail.com>
   wrote:

   It's interesting how lutenists can get tangled up in the web of
   complexities concerning string materials and tensions and the most
   historically appropriate instrument for a particular style of music.
   In an ideal world, it would be nice to time travel and play the
   "correct" instrument for music of Lully, complete with unwashed
   clothes, unbathed musicians, and a big jerk who keeps pounding his big
   stick on the floor, drowning out any subtle flourishes you may wish to
   add.   You may even wish he would accidentally pound his own foot with
   his stick and die of gangrene.

   The point is the music, and we should be flexible and take advantage of
   the opportunity to add our plucked strings and informed approach
   whenever reasonably possible.   I say tune it up and play musically.
   RA
 __

   From: [2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <[3]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu> on
   behalf of Gary Boye <[4]boy...@appstate.edu>
   Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2017 12:47 AM
   To: [5]lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Subject: [LUTE] A440?

   Lute List members, Help!
   I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le Bourgeois
   Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque
   guitar .
   . . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of my
   instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415).
   My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage some
   early
   music performance here, so my only options would appear to be:
   1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!)
   2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo)
   3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low
   4) Tune high and risk it (!)
   5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful)
   It's frustrating, but again, I'd like the experience of doing
   something
   to encourage some early music performance here . . . Any thoughts
   appreciated.
   Gary
   --
   Dr. Gary R. Boye
   Erneston Music Library
   Appalachian State University
   Virus-free. [1][6]www.avast.com
   --
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   Dr. Gary R. Boye
   Erneston Music Library
   Appalachian State University

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[LUTE] Re: A440?

[Martyn Hodgson]

   String tension is directly proportional to the square of the frequency.
   In this case, to increase the pitch from 430 to 440 results in an
   increase in tension of (440/430)squared ie around 4.7%. Thus if your
   theorbo is strung at a general nominal tension of, say, 4Kg per string
   the string tension will only increase by around 0.19Kg to 4.19Kg.
   Accordingly, unless the instrument is already at the limit, if it were
   me I'd tune up to A440 if you wish to play in this concert and the
   conductor still doesn't intend to perform at A430 (I presume he's using
   modern instruments).
   Incidentally, if you use a robust theorbo technique and play close to
   the bridge, rather than a gentle lute style of plucking, my experience
   is that you will be heard - other than in the loudest orchestral
   tuttis. There is really no need to employ irritating fillers between
   passages simply just to be heard! Such fillers should, I suggest, only
   be used where there's a real musical need for them..
   MH
 __

   From: Gary Boye 
   To: lute@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, 8 August 2017, 1:50
   Subject: [LUTE] A440?
 Lute List members, Help!
 I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le Bourgeois
 Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque guitar
   .
 . . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of my
 instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415).
 My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage some early
 music performance here, so my only options would appear to be:
 1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!)
 2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo)
 3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low
 4) Tune high and risk it (!)
 5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful)
 It's frustrating, but again, I'd like the experience of doing
   something
 to encourage some early music performance here . . . Any thoughts
 appreciated.
 Gary
 --
 Dr. Gary R. Boye
 Erneston Music Library
 Appalachian State University
 Virus-free. [1]www.avast.com
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[LUTE] Re: A440?

[Dan Winheld]

A dime in pitch is a lot less than a quarter. Tune it up, you should be 
fine.  Going up from 415 would be a whole 'nother matter; THAT would be 
out of the question without a re-stringing. You would really have to be 
skating on the edge for 10 cents of pitch to make the diff between 
flying bridges, snapping chantarelles, and fun "safe" performance. A gut 
treble would be the only thing that would concern me, and for that 
occasion I would put on a suitable nylon for that one string.
In fact, my "440" capable gigging archlute lives at at 430 between jobs, 
just for the relaxation & mercy to my ears. But she tunes up fine with 
no problems once a month or so for the 440 gigs.



On 8/7/2017 8:00 PM, howard posner wrote:

On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Gary Boye  wrote:

Lute List members, Help!
   I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le Bourgeois
   Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque guitar .
   . . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of my
   instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415).
   My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage some early
   music performance here, so my only options would appear to be:
   1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!)
   2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo)
   3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low
   4) Tune high and risk it (!)

Unless your instrument is really cranked at 430, tuning it up to 440 shouldn’t 
be much of a risk.  I’d say the chance of it exploding, killing you and 
everyone within ten feet of you, is less than 50%.  I’d think the only reason 
to have a lute-family instrument at 430 is to facilitate playing at both 415 
and 440 without a major change in tension.

If you have a theorbo in A at 415, try tuning it down and playing it as an 
instrument in G.


   5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful)

Indeed, impossible, if there are woodwind instruments.




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[LUTE] Re: A440?

[howard posner]

> On Aug 7, 2017, at 5:47 PM, Gary Boye  wrote:
> 
> Lute List members, Help!
>   I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le Bourgeois
>   Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque guitar .
>   . . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of my
>   instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415).
>   My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage some early
>   music performance here, so my only options would appear to be:
>   1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!)
>   2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo)
>   3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low
>   4) Tune high and risk it (!)

Unless your instrument is really cranked at 430, tuning it up to 440 shouldn’t 
be much of a risk.  I’d say the chance of it exploding, killing you and 
everyone within ten feet of you, is less than 50%.  I’d think the only reason 
to have a lute-family instrument at 430 is to facilitate playing at both 415 
and 440 without a major change in tension.

If you have a theorbo in A at 415, try tuning it down and playing it as an 
instrument in G.

>   5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful)

Indeed, impossible, if there are woodwind instruments. 




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[LUTE] Re: A440?

[Susan Sandman]

   I applaud you supporting using period instruments.
   I have tried your no. 3 and recommend it over the other options. You
   might already know this, but you will be heard mostly only if you add
   flourishes -- especially single notes placed carefully to cut through
   the other sonorities.   The chords and doubling will enhance the
   texture, and be visually pleasing, but ornamental runs, especially at
   cadences and to fill in upbeats, will be heard and appreciated.
   Another approach is to play a short solo or two in between some of the
   excerpts.
   Good luck.
   Dr. Susan Sandman, prof. Emerita, Wells College
   ELizabethanConversation.com

   On Mon, Aug 7, 2017 at 8:48 PM Gary Boye <[1]boy...@appstate.edu>
   wrote:

Lute List members, Help!
I've been asked to play on some Lully excerpts from Le Bourgeois
Gentilhomme in early October. I have a theorbo, lute, Baroque
 guitar .
. . no problem. But the conductor wants to do it A440. All of my
instruments are strung for A430 (and one A415).
My initial response is to say no, but I want to encourage some
 early
music performance here, so my only options would appear to be:
1) Re-string an instrument for A440 ($$$!)
2) Try some type of capo (OK for guitar, less so on theorbo)
3) Try to finger it at F#m or Fm and stay tuned low
4) Tune high and risk it (!)
5) Try to convince them to play at A430 (seems doubtful)
It's frustrating, but again, I'd like the experience of doing
 something
to encourage some early music performance here . . . Any thoughts
appreciated.
Gary
--
Dr. Gary R. Boye
Erneston Music Library
Appalachian State University
Virus-free. [1][2]www.avast.com
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