Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
>> the basic html webpage for gmail > The modern trend would be that there is no such thing available to > display. [...] > I don't know that that is the case for gmail. It is not, or at least three days ago it was not for the one of my workplaces that has farmed out their mail to Google. (That may or may not count as "gmail".) Google has, moderately recently, started forcibly logging me out - probably, expiring the "I'm logged in" cookie - every week. Much more recently, they started presenting me with a "we want JS" page on EVERY LOGIN - it used to be some kind of setting of my account that always went straight to the basic HTML view. But, so far, that page has always had three links which supposedly go to the basic HTML version, though I don't think I've tried more than one of the three. And, of course, they don't give me any address I can send mail to about any of this, but that's been true for as long as I can recall. /~\ The ASCII Mouse \ / Ribbon Campaign X Against HTMLmo...@rodents-montreal.org / \ Email! 7D C8 61 52 5D E7 2D 39 4E F1 31 3E E8 B3 27 4B
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
I can't recommend edbrowse now since for the last few versions the setup.ebrc script has been removed. That script when run asks a user questions and using their answers sets up their .ebrc file for them. That is the configuration file on which edbrowse runs. Having edbrowse on my machine I failed to configure everything properly and was unable to access gmail in the usual way. The good news is edbrowse still has support and is up to version 3.8.0 so it's possible the setup.ebrc script will be restored to a future version. On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, Karen Lewellen wrote: > Jude, > To be specific. > Edbrowse can visit a page like this, > mail.google.com > allow one to enter their username and password, > Then present the basic html webpage for gmail? > Karen > > > > On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, Jude DaShiell wrote: > > > edbrowse can do gmail. The edbrowse approach is to take all javascript in > > and ignore everything that doesn't make sense for a text terminal. > > > > > > On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, David Woolley wrote: > > > >> On 17/11/2021 22:02, dan d. wrote: > >>> For that matter, is there a general solution for web pages which refuse > >>> lynx > >>> for that reason? > >> > >> There can't be any general solution other than to use a browser that fully > >> implements HTML 5, EcmaScript, and the associated browser and document and > >> CSS > >> object models. That would be such a radical rewrite that would have little > >> or > >> no original code, or code structure, left. > >> > >> I believe other text browser implement certain common idioms, but are not > >> general solutions. > >> > >> I'm not convinced it is possible in a text browser, but the way to do it > >> would > >> be to put a character cell rendering engine onto the Firefox or Chrome > >> engines, not to adapt the Lynx code. > >> > >> (To get something that worked well in text-only, but only for well written > >> pages, you would also need to fully implement Aria support. This is a way > >> of > >> telling accessibility tools the real semantics of the page, even when the > >> HTML > >> semantics are only used for visual effect, and therefore requires > >> accessibility aware authoring.) > >> > >> > > > > >
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
David, the wording of wCAG says current, not modern. speaking personally there are some who contribute as much to site discrimination as those intense on graphical barriers by tossing the words legacy around. After all, you I am sure do not believe that everyone sharing a label are interchangeable for one another. Even a11y states to be inclusive one incorporates progressive enhancement, builds on a basic, non JavaScript floor, allowing an individual as they are to reach content. Instead of requiring an individual to be disabled according to a modern definition. Just speaking personally, of course. On Thu, 18 Nov 2021, David Woolley wrote: On 18/11/2021 01:05, Karen Lewellen wrote: That is incorrect. one can still, even if normally using standard gmail, change back to basic html mode. I did say that I didn't know whether what I wrote was strictly true for gmail, but rather that it was how most things were done today. You are relying on an unusual policy to support legacy access means. Most companies don't do that, because it is expensive to maintain what are really two different web sites. My guess is that, if you log in with scripting enabled, you will get an AJAX page, not a document type page, which is certainly what happens with FireFox.
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
On 18/11/2021 01:05, Karen Lewellen wrote: That is incorrect. one can still, even if normally using standard gmail, change back to basic html mode. I did say that I didn't know whether what I wrote was strictly true for gmail, but rather that it was how most things were done today. You are relying on an unusual policy to support legacy access means. Most companies don't do that, because it is expensive to maintain what are really two different web sites. My guess is that, if you log in with scripting enabled, you will get an AJAX page, not a document type page, which is certainly what happens with FireFox.
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
David, That is incorrect. one can still, even if normally using standard gmail, change back to basic html mode. The instructions come up rather often on the google accessibility list. In fact Travis wrote, perhaps only me privately?, when we last discussed this topic. He followed a link provided for basic html, and indicated that he was asked to confirm the choice. granted Travis does not use, or intend to use his gmail account at all. however, I use mine several times a day. Karen On Thu, 18 Nov 2021, David Woolley wrote: On 18/11/2021 00:37, Karen Lewellen wrote: the basic html webpage for gmail The modern trend would be that there is no such thing available to display. Typically there will be a JSON file containing the the list of messages, and an HTML 5 web application that reads that file and dynamically creates a document object model in the browser, which the browser then renders. I don't know that that is the case for gmail. However, it is certainly the way that ancestry.co.uk and nextdoor.co.uk work for normal users. I haven't tried these without scripting, so I can't say for certain that they don't have a fall back mode, but I'd be surprised. Both of these examples actually put the page together from a large number of JSON files, which often contain more information than is actually rendered, in any one page, or which is rendered with the less than the available detail (e.g. Nextdoor has exact posting times, but only displays approximate ones, with less detail the further in the past). HTML 5 was specified by a breakaway group, called WHATWG. The A stands for applications. Modern big player web pages are programs that run in the browser, not documents. That probably applies to the page creation services marketed to people who want a page for their business, but don't want to know how to write one.
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
On 18/11/2021 00:37, Karen Lewellen wrote: the basic html webpage for gmail The modern trend would be that there is no such thing available to display. Typically there will be a JSON file containing the the list of messages, and an HTML 5 web application that reads that file and dynamically creates a document object model in the browser, which the browser then renders. I don't know that that is the case for gmail. However, it is certainly the way that ancestry.co.uk and nextdoor.co.uk work for normal users. I haven't tried these without scripting, so I can't say for certain that they don't have a fall back mode, but I'd be surprised. Both of these examples actually put the page together from a large number of JSON files, which often contain more information than is actually rendered, in any one page, or which is rendered with the less than the available detail (e.g. Nextdoor has exact posting times, but only displays approximate ones, with less detail the further in the past). HTML 5 was specified by a breakaway group, called WHATWG. The A stands for applications. Modern big player web pages are programs that run in the browser, not documents. That probably applies to the page creation services marketed to people who want a page for their business, but don't want to know how to write one.
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
Jude, To be specific. Edbrowse can visit a page like this, mail.google.com allow one to enter their username and password, Then present the basic html webpage for gmail? Karen On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, Jude DaShiell wrote: edbrowse can do gmail. The edbrowse approach is to take all javascript in and ignore everything that doesn't make sense for a text terminal. On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, David Woolley wrote: On 17/11/2021 22:02, dan d. wrote: For that matter, is there a general solution for web pages which refuse lynx for that reason? There can't be any general solution other than to use a browser that fully implements HTML 5, EcmaScript, and the associated browser and document and CSS object models. That would be such a radical rewrite that would have little or no original code, or code structure, left. I believe other text browser implement certain common idioms, but are not general solutions. I'm not convinced it is possible in a text browser, but the way to do it would be to put a character cell rendering engine onto the Firefox or Chrome engines, not to adapt the Lynx code. (To get something that worked well in text-only, but only for well written pages, you would also need to fully implement Aria support. This is a way of telling accessibility tools the real semantics of the page, even when the HTML semantics are only used for visual effect, and therefore requires accessibility aware authoring.)
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
edbrowse can do gmail. The edbrowse approach is to take all javascript in and ignore everything that doesn't make sense for a text terminal. On Wed, 17 Nov 2021, David Woolley wrote: > On 17/11/2021 22:02, dan d. wrote: > > For that matter, is there a general solution for web pages which refuse lynx > > for that reason? > > There can't be any general solution other than to use a browser that fully > implements HTML 5, EcmaScript, and the associated browser and document and CSS > object models. That would be such a radical rewrite that would have little or > no original code, or code structure, left. > > I believe other text browser implement certain common idioms, but are not > general solutions. > > I'm not convinced it is possible in a text browser, but the way to do it would > be to put a character cell rendering engine onto the Firefox or Chrome > engines, not to adapt the Lynx code. > > (To get something that worked well in text-only, but only for well written > pages, you would also need to fully implement Aria support. This is a way of > telling accessibility tools the real semantics of the page, even when the HTML > semantics are only used for visual effect, and therefore requires > accessibility aware authoring.) > >
Re: [Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
On 17/11/2021 22:02, dan d. wrote: For that matter, is there a general solution for web pages which refuse lynx for that reason? There can't be any general solution other than to use a browser that fully implements HTML 5, EcmaScript, and the associated browser and document and CSS object models. That would be such a radical rewrite that would have little or no original code, or code structure, left. I believe other text browser implement certain common idioms, but are not general solutions. I'm not convinced it is possible in a text browser, but the way to do it would be to put a character cell rendering engine onto the Firefox or Chrome engines, not to adapt the Lynx code. (To get something that worked well in text-only, but only for well written pages, you would also need to fully implement Aria support. This is a way of telling accessibility tools the real semantics of the page, even when the HTML semantics are only used for visual effect, and therefore requires accessibility aware authoring.)
[Lynx-dev] Lynx access to gmail accounts
Some time a go there was discussion of not being able to go to the gmail web page using lynx because of java script. Has anyone found a solution yet? For that matter, is there a general solution for web pages which refuse lynx for that reason? Thanks. -- ent- XR
