file input not updating.

[Rob Saunders]

I'm using the lyx file input control to input a child.lyx 
document within a master foo.lyx
The child is being worked on and updated elswhere.
The only way I can get the master, foo.pdf,
output to find changes in the child.lyx is to restart lyx.


q. Is there an easier way?
Rob
 

file input not updating.

[Rob Saunders]

I'm using the lyx file input control to input a child.lyx 
document within a master foo.lyx
The child is being worked on and updated elswhere.
The only way I can get the master, foo.pdf,
output to find changes in the child.lyx is to restart lyx.


q. Is there an easier way?
Rob
 

file input not updating.

[Rob Saunders]

I'm using the lyx "file input" control to input a child.lyx 
document within a master foo.lyx
The child is being worked on and updated elswhere.
The only way I can get the master, foo.pdf,
output to find changes in the child.lyx is to restart lyx.


q. Is there an easier way?
Rob
 

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm glad they were helpful:

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:36 +0100, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieben Sie:
 
 Hi, Rob, 
 
 has this been done already:
 
 TeXLive 2009 is included with Ubuntu 10.04, if you are able to update your 
 Linux distribution. If not, it is possible to install newer versions of 
 TeXLive alongside an existing install. I am currently working on a blog 
 post that explains how this is done and I will post it when finished.

A lot of those entries have gotten a bit long in the tooth (though I
think everything is still applicable, one of the really nice thing about
TeX and LyX, it never feels like there is a system of planned
obsolescence).

Regarding how to upgrade TeX Live, I did write a post describing how to
do it: http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/07/15/latex-custom

Though it talks about LaTeX 2010, the instructions can be adapted to
nearly any LaTeX distribution, as far as I know. I used the same
procedure recently to install TeXLive 2012.

(Speaking of which, if you use TeXLive 2012 and luaTeX, be very careful.
They've made some big changes, and it's caused a bunch of things to
break. Or, at least none of my luaTeX documents will compile anymore;
both from LyX and pure TeX. I haven't yet had time to sort out where the
problem is.)

I'd love to link to a more updated set of instructions. When you finish
your post, let me know, I'll to post a link.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm glad they were helpful:

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:36 +0100, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
 Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieben Sie:
 
 Hi, Rob, 
 
 has this been done already:
 
 TeXLive 2009 is included with Ubuntu 10.04, if you are able to update your 
 Linux distribution. If not, it is possible to install newer versions of 
 TeXLive alongside an existing install. I am currently working on a blog 
 post that explains how this is done and I will post it when finished.

A lot of those entries have gotten a bit long in the tooth (though I
think everything is still applicable, one of the really nice thing about
TeX and LyX, it never feels like there is a system of planned
obsolescence).

Regarding how to upgrade TeX Live, I did write a post describing how to
do it: http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/07/15/latex-custom

Though it talks about LaTeX 2010, the instructions can be adapted to
nearly any LaTeX distribution, as far as I know. I used the same
procedure recently to install TeXLive 2012.

(Speaking of which, if you use TeXLive 2012 and luaTeX, be very careful.
They've made some big changes, and it's caused a bunch of things to
break. Or, at least none of my luaTeX documents will compile anymore;
both from LyX and pure TeX. I haven't yet had time to sort out where the
problem is.)

I'd love to link to a more updated set of instructions. When you finish
your post, let me know, I'll to post a link.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Wolfgang,

I'm glad they were helpful:

On Tue, 2012-12-11 at 10:36 +0100, Wolfgang Engelmann wrote:
> Am Montag, 10. Dezember 2012, 21:31:25 schrieben Sie:
> 
> Hi, Rob, 
> 
> has this been done already:
> 
> TeXLive 2009 is included with Ubuntu 10.04, if you are able to update your 
> Linux distribution. If not, it is possible to install newer versions of 
> TeXLive alongside an existing install. I am currently working on a blog 
> post that explains how this is done and I will post it when finished.

A lot of those entries have gotten a bit long in the tooth (though I
think everything is still applicable, one of the really nice thing about
TeX and LyX, it never feels like there is a system of planned
obsolescence).

Regarding how to upgrade TeX Live, I did write a post describing how to
do it: http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/07/15/latex-custom

Though it talks about LaTeX 2010, the instructions can be adapted to
nearly any LaTeX distribution, as far as I know. I used the same
procedure recently to install TeXLive 2012.

(Speaking of which, if you use TeXLive 2012 and luaTeX, be very careful.
They've made some big changes, and it's caused a bunch of things to
break. Or, at least none of my luaTeX documents will compile anymore;
both from LyX and pure TeX. I haven't yet had time to sort out where the
problem is.)

I'd love to link to a more updated set of instructions. When you finish
your post, let me know, I'll to post a link.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

If you're going to go the customization route, this might be of help:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih

It talks about creating a custom layout for an existing document class.

Related posts with more examples can be found at:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-styles
(Character styles)

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4
(Second example of how to create a layout for an existing document
class. The other posts in the same series how to write a custom document
class.)

Best of luck in the endeavor!

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

If you're going to go the customization route, this might be of help:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih

It talks about creating a custom layout for an existing document class.

Related posts with more examples can be found at:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-styles
(Character styles)

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4
(Second example of how to create a layout for an existing document
class. The other posts in the same series how to write a custom document
class.)

Best of luck in the endeavor!

Re: APA6 class with LyX?

[Rob Oakes]

If you're going to go the customization route, this might be of help:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/02/custom-lyx-nih

It talks about creating a custom layout for an existing document class.

Related posts with more examples can be found at:

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/11/14/customize-lyx-character-styles
(Character styles)

http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/19/latex-cv-part4
(Second example of how to create a layout for an existing document
class. The other posts in the same series how to write a custom document
class.)

Best of luck in the endeavor!

Re: Getting rid of You cannot type two spaces this way message?

[Rob Oakes]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:36 +0100, Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Alan R. Bleier ar...@cornell.edu wrote:
  I agree completely with Trevor.
 
 I completely disagree with Trevor. Hitting double space [to get a full
 stop] is as unnatural and unhelpful as it gets. This may make some
 sense for a mobile platform, but is utterly unneeded on the desktop. I
 very much hope that LyX doesn't go the way of the iThingies.

It isn't just unhelpful, it's also wrong. From a typographical,
stylistic, and grammatical point of view (see Grammar girl's take, who
also cites the Chicago Manual of Style, the AP stylebook, and MLA to
back herself up [1]).

One of the things I particularly like about LyX is that it forces me
into structure. I've invested enough time to create templates, modules,
and classes for my work. LyX makes my writing fit into those classes,
which saves me lots and lots of time. Little things, like not typing two
spaces, are a feature as far as I'm concerned.

If I need the ability to type multiple spaces, this can be created via a
special style. LyX code, for example, allows control over white space;
which means it's there when I need it.

I would much prefer that LyX default to the stylistically accepted way
of things, with other methods available via styles. Which is to say, I
like how it works now.

[1]
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/spaces-period-end-of-sentence.aspx

Re: Getting rid of You cannot type two spaces this way message?

[Rob Oakes]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:36 +0100, Liviu Andronic wrote:
 On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Alan R. Bleier ar...@cornell.edu wrote:
  I agree completely with Trevor.
 
 I completely disagree with Trevor. Hitting double space [to get a full
 stop] is as unnatural and unhelpful as it gets. This may make some
 sense for a mobile platform, but is utterly unneeded on the desktop. I
 very much hope that LyX doesn't go the way of the iThingies.

It isn't just unhelpful, it's also wrong. From a typographical,
stylistic, and grammatical point of view (see Grammar girl's take, who
also cites the Chicago Manual of Style, the AP stylebook, and MLA to
back herself up [1]).

One of the things I particularly like about LyX is that it forces me
into structure. I've invested enough time to create templates, modules,
and classes for my work. LyX makes my writing fit into those classes,
which saves me lots and lots of time. Little things, like not typing two
spaces, are a feature as far as I'm concerned.

If I need the ability to type multiple spaces, this can be created via a
special style. LyX code, for example, allows control over white space;
which means it's there when I need it.

I would much prefer that LyX default to the stylistically accepted way
of things, with other methods available via styles. Which is to say, I
like how it works now.

[1]
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/spaces-period-end-of-sentence.aspx

Re: Getting rid of "You cannot type two spaces this way" message?

[Rob Oakes]

On Wed, 2012-11-21 at 16:36 +0100, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 21, 2012 at 4:08 PM, Alan R. Bleier  wrote:
> > I agree completely with Trevor.
> >
> I completely disagree with Trevor. Hitting double space [to get a full
> stop] is as unnatural and unhelpful as it gets. This may make some
> sense for a mobile platform, but is utterly unneeded on the desktop. I
> very much hope that LyX doesn't go the way of the iThingies.

It isn't just unhelpful, it's also wrong. From a typographical,
stylistic, and grammatical point of view (see Grammar girl's take, who
also cites the Chicago Manual of Style, the AP stylebook, and MLA to
back herself up [1]).

One of the things I particularly like about LyX is that it forces me
into structure. I've invested enough time to create templates, modules,
and classes for my work. LyX makes my writing fit into those classes,
which saves me lots and lots of time. Little things, like not typing two
spaces, are a feature as far as I'm concerned.

If I need the ability to type multiple spaces, this can be created via a
special style. LyX code, for example, allows control over white space;
which means it's there when I need it.

I would much prefer that LyX default to the stylistically accepted way
of things, with other methods available via styles. Which is to say, I
like how it works now.

[1]
http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/spaces-period-end-of-sentence.aspx

LaTeX Question

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Group,

This is more of a LaTeX question rather than a LyX question, but I know
there are many LaTeX experts here, too, so here goes.

I'm currently working with a set of fluids equations which have both
velocity and volume terms. Given how frequently the variable v appears
in both (by convention), I would like to somehow distinguish them in my
notes. (Right now, I've been using an uppercase V for volume and
lowercase v for velocity.) 

I've seen several texts use a variant of the V character, however, to
make the distinction more clear. Any idea how this might be done? What
is the best way to use a variant character in a math expression, or is
there a standard LaTeX symbol for volume? (Regular V appears to be used
for velocity, variant V for volume.)

I've already looked through the general LaTeX symbols list and the LyX
menus, but wasn't able to find the symbols used in the text.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob

LaTeX Question

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Group,

This is more of a LaTeX question rather than a LyX question, but I know
there are many LaTeX experts here, too, so here goes.

I'm currently working with a set of fluids equations which have both
velocity and volume terms. Given how frequently the variable v appears
in both (by convention), I would like to somehow distinguish them in my
notes. (Right now, I've been using an uppercase V for volume and
lowercase v for velocity.) 

I've seen several texts use a variant of the V character, however, to
make the distinction more clear. Any idea how this might be done? What
is the best way to use a variant character in a math expression, or is
there a standard LaTeX symbol for volume? (Regular V appears to be used
for velocity, variant V for volume.)

I've already looked through the general LaTeX symbols list and the LyX
menus, but wasn't able to find the symbols used in the text.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob

LaTeX Question

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Group,

This is more of a LaTeX question rather than a LyX question, but I know
there are many LaTeX experts here, too, so here goes.

I'm currently working with a set of fluids equations which have both
velocity and volume terms. Given how frequently the variable v appears
in both (by convention), I would like to somehow distinguish them in my
notes. (Right now, I've been using an uppercase V for volume and
lowercase v for velocity.) 

I've seen several texts use a variant of the V character, however, to
make the distinction more clear. Any idea how this might be done? What
is the best way to use a variant character in a math expression, or is
there a standard LaTeX symbol for volume? (Regular V appears to be used
for velocity, variant V for volume.)

I've already looked through the general LaTeX symbols list and the LyX
menus, but wasn't able to find the symbols used in the text.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: SageTeX and LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Scott, 

On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 06:16 -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

 I've been meaning to checkout SAGE + LyX so if no one comes along to
 help you I might take a look.

I appreciate the offer. After some quality time looking into how the
module works and how SageTeX processes documents, I was able to get it
up and running. I found this page to be extremely helpful:
http://www.sagemath.org/doc/tutorial/sagetex.html

Of course, like all things, I was hoping to get a quick response via the
list. I decided last year that I wanted to go back to school to improve
my mechanical engineering skills and was hoping to get Sage working for
a lab report.

(Why I decided more education would be desirable is completely beyond
me. I've forgotten how thoroughly miserable it is to be a student. While
I frequently have to work late, it's been years since I've had to pull
an all-night session to finish homework. It's every bit as bad as I
remember. It might even be worse, if you factor in age.)

 How did you install SAGE? In the past
 I've compiled from source which was very smooth but took a while.
 There is also a PPA: https://launchpad.net/~aims/+archive/sagemath

To get Sage installed, I used the PPA. I thought about compiling from
source so that I could integrate it with the system Python, and then
thought better of it. The installation from the PPA was quick and I
haven't had any issues, so far.

To install the SageTeX module (which has to be done separately from
installing Sage), I copied the sagetex folder into my LaTeX path and ran
texhash.

 Which version do you have installed?

I'm running version 5.1.

 Does the terminal output or View Messages toolbar give any useful
 output that you could share?

The output was helpful, but didn't make much sense until I read more
about how SageTeX works.

Sage processes files in two steps. You write your document, then you run
LaTeX (pdflatex, xelatex, lualatex, or regular latex) on it. This
creates a second file, with the Sage processing instructions in it. This
has a *.sagetex.sage file extension.

At this point, you have to run Sage on this secondary file, which
generates your equations, plots and other elements so that they can be
incorporated into your original LaTeX file. At that point, you run LaTeX
on the original file a second time to produce the typeset document.

The problem I was having is that I was only running LaTeX on my new
documents. The converters I set up didn't follow the appropriate pathway
of LaTeX - Sage - LaTeX. Once I added in the Sage processing step,
everything started to work.

 Do you have a minimum working example that you could send or link to?

Absolutely, attached is a simple example that I'm working up into a
template.

I'm just getting started with Sage, but now that it's working, I'm quite
impressed with what I've seen. For the past 10 years or so, I've been
using aging copies of Maple for symbolic computation, and this looks
like it will allow me to modernize. (I don't actually have to do much
symbolic math, so it hasn't been that big of a deal.)

Being able to work from within LyX, in a manner very similar to the way
I work with R code via Knitr/Sweave, is going to be very nice. Knowing
that it's all open is even better.

Cheers,

Rob

PS, when I get time, I'm going to try and update the instructions on the
Wiki to make a couple of things clearer. I'll also probably write a blog
post about it, just so I've got a record of how I got things working. If
you'd like, I'll send you a link when it's finished.


Sage Report.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: SageTeX and LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Scott, 

On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 06:16 -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

 I've been meaning to checkout SAGE + LyX so if no one comes along to
 help you I might take a look.

I appreciate the offer. After some quality time looking into how the
module works and how SageTeX processes documents, I was able to get it
up and running. I found this page to be extremely helpful:
http://www.sagemath.org/doc/tutorial/sagetex.html

Of course, like all things, I was hoping to get a quick response via the
list. I decided last year that I wanted to go back to school to improve
my mechanical engineering skills and was hoping to get Sage working for
a lab report.

(Why I decided more education would be desirable is completely beyond
me. I've forgotten how thoroughly miserable it is to be a student. While
I frequently have to work late, it's been years since I've had to pull
an all-night session to finish homework. It's every bit as bad as I
remember. It might even be worse, if you factor in age.)

 How did you install SAGE? In the past
 I've compiled from source which was very smooth but took a while.
 There is also a PPA: https://launchpad.net/~aims/+archive/sagemath

To get Sage installed, I used the PPA. I thought about compiling from
source so that I could integrate it with the system Python, and then
thought better of it. The installation from the PPA was quick and I
haven't had any issues, so far.

To install the SageTeX module (which has to be done separately from
installing Sage), I copied the sagetex folder into my LaTeX path and ran
texhash.

 Which version do you have installed?

I'm running version 5.1.

 Does the terminal output or View Messages toolbar give any useful
 output that you could share?

The output was helpful, but didn't make much sense until I read more
about how SageTeX works.

Sage processes files in two steps. You write your document, then you run
LaTeX (pdflatex, xelatex, lualatex, or regular latex) on it. This
creates a second file, with the Sage processing instructions in it. This
has a *.sagetex.sage file extension.

At this point, you have to run Sage on this secondary file, which
generates your equations, plots and other elements so that they can be
incorporated into your original LaTeX file. At that point, you run LaTeX
on the original file a second time to produce the typeset document.

The problem I was having is that I was only running LaTeX on my new
documents. The converters I set up didn't follow the appropriate pathway
of LaTeX - Sage - LaTeX. Once I added in the Sage processing step,
everything started to work.

 Do you have a minimum working example that you could send or link to?

Absolutely, attached is a simple example that I'm working up into a
template.

I'm just getting started with Sage, but now that it's working, I'm quite
impressed with what I've seen. For the past 10 years or so, I've been
using aging copies of Maple for symbolic computation, and this looks
like it will allow me to modernize. (I don't actually have to do much
symbolic math, so it hasn't been that big of a deal.)

Being able to work from within LyX, in a manner very similar to the way
I work with R code via Knitr/Sweave, is going to be very nice. Knowing
that it's all open is even better.

Cheers,

Rob

PS, when I get time, I'm going to try and update the instructions on the
Wiki to make a couple of things clearer. I'll also probably write a blog
post about it, just so I've got a record of how I got things working. If
you'd like, I'll send you a link when it's finished.


Sage Report.lyx
Description: application/lyx

Re: SageTeX and LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Scott, 

On Wed, 2012-10-03 at 06:16 -0400, Scott Kostyshak wrote:

> I've been meaning to checkout SAGE + LyX so if no one comes along to
> help you I might take a look.

I appreciate the offer. After some quality time looking into how the
module works and how SageTeX processes documents, I was able to get it
up and running. I found this page to be extremely helpful:
http://www.sagemath.org/doc/tutorial/sagetex.html

Of course, like all things, I was hoping to get a quick response via the
list. I decided last year that I wanted to go back to school to improve
my mechanical engineering skills and was hoping to get Sage working for
a lab report.

(Why I decided more education would be desirable is completely beyond
me. I've forgotten how thoroughly miserable it is to be a student. While
I frequently have to work late, it's been years since I've had to pull
an all-night session to finish homework. It's every bit as bad as I
remember. It might even be worse, if you factor in age.)

> How did you install SAGE? In the past
> I've compiled from source which was very smooth but took a while.
> There is also a PPA: https://launchpad.net/~aims/+archive/sagemath

To get Sage installed, I used the PPA. I thought about compiling from
source so that I could integrate it with the system Python, and then
thought better of it. The installation from the PPA was quick and I
haven't had any issues, so far.

To install the SageTeX module (which has to be done separately from
installing Sage), I copied the sagetex folder into my LaTeX path and ran
texhash.

> Which version do you have installed?

I'm running version 5.1.

> Does the terminal output or View Messages toolbar give any useful
> output that you could share?

The output was helpful, but didn't make much sense until I read more
about how SageTeX works.

Sage processes files in two steps. You write your document, then you run
LaTeX (pdflatex, xelatex, lualatex, or regular latex) on it. This
creates a second file, with the Sage processing instructions in it. This
has a *.sagetex.sage file extension.

At this point, you have to run Sage on this secondary file, which
generates your equations, plots and other elements so that they can be
incorporated into your original LaTeX file. At that point, you run LaTeX
on the original file a second time to produce the typeset document.

The problem I was having is that I was only running LaTeX on my new
documents. The converters I set up didn't follow the appropriate pathway
of LaTeX -> Sage -> LaTeX. Once I added in the Sage processing step,
everything started to work.

> Do you have a minimum working example that you could send or link to?

Absolutely, attached is a simple example that I'm working up into a
template.

I'm just getting started with Sage, but now that it's working, I'm quite
impressed with what I've seen. For the past 10 years or so, I've been
using aging copies of Maple for symbolic computation, and this looks
like it will allow me to modernize. (I don't actually have to do much
symbolic math, so it hasn't been that big of a deal.)

Being able to work from within LyX, in a manner very similar to the way
I work with R code via Knitr/Sweave, is going to be very nice. Knowing
that it's all open is even better.

Cheers,

Rob

PS, when I get time, I'm going to try and update the instructions on the
Wiki to make a couple of things clearer. I'll also probably write a blog
post about it, just so I've got a record of how I got things working. If
you'd like, I'll send you a link when it's finished.


Sage Report.lyx
Description: application/lyx

SageTeX and LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Users,

I've just started playing around with SAGE (www.sagemath.org) and was
very happy to see that there is a module which can be used with LyX.

However, in trying to get the module to work, I've run into a snag. I
have it installed, and I can even successfully compile the example
document from the Wiki. However, when I try and create my own documents,
it appears as though I'm not getting any output back from SAGE.

Other than adding the module to a new LyX document, is there some
configuration step that I am missing? Also, any explanation as to why
the example would appear to compile, but new documents might not?

I'm using LyX 2.1 (SVN) on Ubuntu 12.04, with a custom TeX Live 2011
install.

Cheers,

Rob

SageTeX and LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Users,

I've just started playing around with SAGE (www.sagemath.org) and was
very happy to see that there is a module which can be used with LyX.

However, in trying to get the module to work, I've run into a snag. I
have it installed, and I can even successfully compile the example
document from the Wiki. However, when I try and create my own documents,
it appears as though I'm not getting any output back from SAGE.

Other than adding the module to a new LyX document, is there some
configuration step that I am missing? Also, any explanation as to why
the example would appear to compile, but new documents might not?

I'm using LyX 2.1 (SVN) on Ubuntu 12.04, with a custom TeX Live 2011
install.

Cheers,

Rob

SageTeX and LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Users,

I've just started playing around with SAGE (www.sagemath.org) and was
very happy to see that there is a module which can be used with LyX.

However, in trying to get the module to work, I've run into a snag. I
have it installed, and I can even successfully compile the example
document from the Wiki. However, when I try and create my own documents,
it appears as though I'm not getting any output back from SAGE.

Other than adding the module to a new LyX document, is there some
configuration step that I am missing? Also, any explanation as to why
the example would appear to compile, but new documents might not?

I'm using LyX 2.1 (SVN) on Ubuntu 12.04, with a custom TeX Live 2011
install.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Longtable captions

[Rob Oakes]

On 5/8/2012 8:45 AM, John Tapsell wrote:
   At the moment adding captions to longtables requires manually adding lyx 
 code.
Hi John,

While the offer is much appreciated, in this case, it's unnecessary. You
*can* add captions to longtables. It's available from the Table
properties dialog.  Right click on the Table  Settings  Longtable (Tab).

From there, you'll see an option for Caption at the bottom of the Row
settings. Just enable Use long table box, and then click on the
Caption box. It will add in a label for you to fill out.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Rob

PS, if you post other annoyances to the list, I'm sure that the
developers  would be happy to jump on them.

Re: Longtable captions

[Rob Oakes]

On 5/8/2012 8:45 AM, John Tapsell wrote:
   At the moment adding captions to longtables requires manually adding lyx 
 code.
Hi John,

While the offer is much appreciated, in this case, it's unnecessary. You
*can* add captions to longtables. It's available from the Table
properties dialog.  Right click on the Table  Settings  Longtable (Tab).

From there, you'll see an option for Caption at the bottom of the Row
settings. Just enable Use long table box, and then click on the
Caption box. It will add in a label for you to fill out.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Rob

PS, if you post other annoyances to the list, I'm sure that the
developers  would be happy to jump on them.

Re: Longtable captions

[Rob Oakes]

On 5/8/2012 8:45 AM, John Tapsell wrote:
>   At the moment adding captions to longtables requires manually adding lyx 
> code.
Hi John,

While the offer is much appreciated, in this case, it's unnecessary. You
*can* add captions to longtables. It's available from the Table
properties dialog.  Right click on the Table > Settings > Longtable (Tab).

>From there, you'll see an option for Caption at the bottom of the "Row"
settings. Just enable "Use long table" box, and then click on the
"Caption" box. It will add in a label for you to fill out.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,

Rob

PS, if you post other annoyances to the list, I'm sure that the
developers  would be happy to jump on them.

Re: Spaces in the title of descriptions

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Manolo,

On 4/20/2012 9:34 AM, Manolo Martínez wrote:
 This has probably been discussed before, although I don't quite recall the
 suggestion I'm about to make. 

 As most LyXers, I use a short space (C-Space) as a substitute for spaces in 
 the
 title of descriptions in LyX. As many, I take this to be not the most 
 beautiful
 of hacks.

 I was wondering if the following would not be a better solution: telling LyX,
 MarkDown-style, that whatever goes into the first, outermost pair of brackets
 in a definition is its title. One would write:

 (Title) This is blah.

 If one needs brackets in the title, she should write:

 ((Title in Brackets)) Blah.

 This would provide cleaner .tex files. If a description does not start with a
 bracketed title, LyX would complain.
I largely agree with your point that the way we handle spaces in the
list and description environments is suboptimal (control-space isn't the
most intuitive way of adding a space to a description title, to my own
embarrassment I only learned about it recently). With that said ... (my
apologies up front, this email comes dangerously close to rant)

I much prefer it to needing to make use of markup or markdown in an
environment that is otherwise WYSIWYG. By much prefer, I mean to say, I
think it would be a horrible thing if we suddenly start requiring users
to make use of syntax in a visual environment.

I am very sympathetic to the need for clean output. (I've ranted about
some of the choices made in XHTML export, for example.) But, to me,
that's secondary to the cleanliness of the writing experience. If LyX is
complaining because I'm not including parentheses or brackets, that is
not a step forward. We don't use them anywhere else inside of LyX, and I
don't think we should. If I wanted to write with markup (any markup), I
would write with markup directly. That would give me the exact
representation of my thoughts that I want. I use LyX so that I don't
have to do that and can still have a high level of control over the output.

It also seems as though there is a solution to this issue that doesn't
require the use of markup inside LyX itself: add a TeX inset to the
title. Once added, I can type a title without needing to control-space
and it produces very clean TeX output. E.g.:

\begin{description}
\item [{Item Title}] This is the first item.
...
\end{description}

There are also several other places where I am *very* particular about
my markup. In all of these places, you can use the TeX inset to produce
exactly what you want to appear in the output.

It's still a workaround, but I think it's much cleaner than requiring
markup/markdown/chickenscratch inside of LyX (even if the option is
complete optional controlled by a deeply buried preference somewhere).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Spaces in the title of descriptions

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Manolo,

On 4/20/2012 9:34 AM, Manolo Martínez wrote:
 This has probably been discussed before, although I don't quite recall the
 suggestion I'm about to make. 

 As most LyXers, I use a short space (C-Space) as a substitute for spaces in 
 the
 title of descriptions in LyX. As many, I take this to be not the most 
 beautiful
 of hacks.

 I was wondering if the following would not be a better solution: telling LyX,
 MarkDown-style, that whatever goes into the first, outermost pair of brackets
 in a definition is its title. One would write:

 (Title) This is blah.

 If one needs brackets in the title, she should write:

 ((Title in Brackets)) Blah.

 This would provide cleaner .tex files. If a description does not start with a
 bracketed title, LyX would complain.
I largely agree with your point that the way we handle spaces in the
list and description environments is suboptimal (control-space isn't the
most intuitive way of adding a space to a description title, to my own
embarrassment I only learned about it recently). With that said ... (my
apologies up front, this email comes dangerously close to rant)

I much prefer it to needing to make use of markup or markdown in an
environment that is otherwise WYSIWYG. By much prefer, I mean to say, I
think it would be a horrible thing if we suddenly start requiring users
to make use of syntax in a visual environment.

I am very sympathetic to the need for clean output. (I've ranted about
some of the choices made in XHTML export, for example.) But, to me,
that's secondary to the cleanliness of the writing experience. If LyX is
complaining because I'm not including parentheses or brackets, that is
not a step forward. We don't use them anywhere else inside of LyX, and I
don't think we should. If I wanted to write with markup (any markup), I
would write with markup directly. That would give me the exact
representation of my thoughts that I want. I use LyX so that I don't
have to do that and can still have a high level of control over the output.

It also seems as though there is a solution to this issue that doesn't
require the use of markup inside LyX itself: add a TeX inset to the
title. Once added, I can type a title without needing to control-space
and it produces very clean TeX output. E.g.:

\begin{description}
\item [{Item Title}] This is the first item.
...
\end{description}

There are also several other places where I am *very* particular about
my markup. In all of these places, you can use the TeX inset to produce
exactly what you want to appear in the output.

It's still a workaround, but I think it's much cleaner than requiring
markup/markdown/chickenscratch inside of LyX (even if the option is
complete optional controlled by a deeply buried preference somewhere).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Spaces in the title of descriptions

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Manolo,

On 4/20/2012 9:34 AM, Manolo Martínez wrote:
> This has probably been discussed before, although I don't quite recall the
> suggestion I'm about to make. 
>
> As most LyXers, I use a short space (C-Space) as a substitute for spaces in 
> the
> title of descriptions in LyX. As many, I take this to be not the most 
> beautiful
> of hacks.
>
> I was wondering if the following would not be a better solution: telling LyX,
> MarkDown-style, that whatever goes into the first, outermost pair of brackets
> in a definition is its title. One would write:
>
> (Title) This is blah.
>
> If one needs brackets in the title, she should write:
>
> ((Title in Brackets)) Blah.
>
> This would provide cleaner .tex files. If a description does not start with a
> bracketed title, LyX would complain.
I largely agree with your point that the way we handle spaces in the
list and description environments is suboptimal (control-space isn't the
most intuitive way of adding a space to a description title, to my own
embarrassment I only learned about it recently). With that said ... (my
apologies up front, this email comes dangerously close to rant)

I much prefer it to needing to make use of markup or markdown in an
environment that is otherwise WYSIWYG. By much prefer, I mean to say, I
think it would be a horrible thing if we suddenly start requiring users
to make use of syntax in a visual environment.

I am very sympathetic to the need for clean output. (I've ranted about
some of the choices made in XHTML export, for example.) But, to me,
that's secondary to the cleanliness of the writing experience. If LyX is
complaining because I'm not including parentheses or brackets, that is
not a step forward. We don't use them anywhere else inside of LyX, and I
don't think we should. If I wanted to write with markup (any markup), I
would write with markup directly. That would give me the exact
representation of my thoughts that I want. I use LyX so that I don't
have to do that and can still have a high level of control over the output.

It also seems as though there is a solution to this issue that doesn't
require the use of markup inside LyX itself: add a TeX inset to the
title. Once added, I can type a title without needing to control-space
and it produces very clean TeX output. E.g.:

\begin{description}
\item [{Item Title}] This is the first item.
...
\end{description}

There are also several other places where I am *very* particular about
my markup. In all of these places, you can use the TeX inset to produce
exactly what you want to appear in the output.

It's still a workaround, but I think it's much cleaner than requiring
markup/markdown/chickenscratch inside of LyX (even if the option is
complete optional controlled by a deeply buried preference somewhere).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: LyX on Ubuntu Precise (12.04): big download size!

[Rob Oakes]

On 4/3/2012 10:01 AM, BOB Merhebi wrote:
 Hello all,

 I've been testing Ubuntu12.04 lately  just now I was thinking of
 using LyX on it. TO my big surprise the LyX requires a large download
 of ~450 MB+. I am shocked!!! IS that the true size? If not mistaken I
 recall that on 10.04 it required ~ 25MB. Am I mistaken? Is there
 something wrong?
Hi Bob,

The download from Ubuntu was probably a debug build. These are much
larger than the release build. You might want to contact the Ubuntu
project and let them know that the build is much larger than expected.
Liviu Andronic manages a PPA with an unofficial build, which might be
less damaging to your Internet quota
(https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release). I'm not sure he's
added support for Precise Penguin, yet, though.

Another idea is that they may have changed the LaTeX dependencies. If
so, it might be downloading a lot of extra TeX packages that aren't needed.

Regardless, I would definitely get in touch with the Ubuntu project. To
the best of my knowledge, they don't subscribe to this list, and it's
something that they will want to hear about.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: LyX on Ubuntu Precise (12.04): big download size!

[Rob Oakes]

On 4/3/2012 10:01 AM, BOB Merhebi wrote:
 Hello all,

 I've been testing Ubuntu12.04 lately  just now I was thinking of
 using LyX on it. TO my big surprise the LyX requires a large download
 of ~450 MB+. I am shocked!!! IS that the true size? If not mistaken I
 recall that on 10.04 it required ~ 25MB. Am I mistaken? Is there
 something wrong?
Hi Bob,

The download from Ubuntu was probably a debug build. These are much
larger than the release build. You might want to contact the Ubuntu
project and let them know that the build is much larger than expected.
Liviu Andronic manages a PPA with an unofficial build, which might be
less damaging to your Internet quota
(https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release). I'm not sure he's
added support for Precise Penguin, yet, though.

Another idea is that they may have changed the LaTeX dependencies. If
so, it might be downloading a lot of extra TeX packages that aren't needed.

Regardless, I would definitely get in touch with the Ubuntu project. To
the best of my knowledge, they don't subscribe to this list, and it's
something that they will want to hear about.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: LyX on Ubuntu Precise (12.04): big download size!

[Rob Oakes]

On 4/3/2012 10:01 AM, BOB Merhebi wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I've been testing Ubuntu12.04 lately & just now I was thinking of
> using LyX on it. TO my big surprise the LyX requires a large download
> of ~450 MB+. I am shocked!!! IS that the true size? If not mistaken I
> recall that on 10.04 it required ~ 25MB. Am I mistaken? Is there
> something wrong?
Hi Bob,

The download from Ubuntu was probably a debug build. These are much
larger than the release build. You might want to contact the Ubuntu
project and let them know that the build is much larger than expected.
Liviu Andronic manages a PPA with an unofficial build, which might be
less damaging to your Internet quota
(https://launchpad.net/~lyx-devel/+archive/release). I'm not sure he's
added support for Precise Penguin, yet, though.

Another idea is that they may have changed the LaTeX dependencies. If
so, it might be downloading a lot of extra TeX packages that aren't needed.

Regardless, I would definitely get in touch with the Ubuntu project. To
the best of my knowledge, they don't subscribe to this list, and it's
something that they will want to hear about.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On 3/9/2012 7:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 Can one import HTML, with its styles, into MSWord or Libreoffice? If
 so, then it sounds to me like eLyXer has already accomplished this,
 without any added work from you, Alex. You've already done the hard
 part, and Rob's done the other end of the hard part, and it sounds to
 me like if there's an MSWord HTML import, it's just a matter of a
 small script that anybody can do, completely separate from yours and
 Rob's work. Kind of like my lyx2kindle, three quarters of which is
 just a front-end to eLyXer.

I agree, I don't think that it needs to be very difficult. Writing a
Word XML document is a pain, but it's not very hard. There's plenty of
well documented examples for supporting a wide variety of features. What
it lacks is someone who is willing to pick it up and run with it.

I might have a student who would be interested, and I could help with
portions. Is there anyone from the users list who might be interested in
tackling it? I can provide support on the writing of doc and Alex on the
parsing of LyX, it sounds like it's a matter of gluing pieces together.
As a first pass, I'd recommend supporting paragraph and character
styles, tables, images, and footnotes. Once you've got the basics
started, it's pretty to add additional features as you go (or at least,
that's what I've found).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On 3/9/2012 7:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 Can one import HTML, with its styles, into MSWord or Libreoffice? If
 so, then it sounds to me like eLyXer has already accomplished this,
 without any added work from you, Alex. You've already done the hard
 part, and Rob's done the other end of the hard part, and it sounds to
 me like if there's an MSWord HTML import, it's just a matter of a
 small script that anybody can do, completely separate from yours and
 Rob's work. Kind of like my lyx2kindle, three quarters of which is
 just a front-end to eLyXer.

I agree, I don't think that it needs to be very difficult. Writing a
Word XML document is a pain, but it's not very hard. There's plenty of
well documented examples for supporting a wide variety of features. What
it lacks is someone who is willing to pick it up and run with it.

I might have a student who would be interested, and I could help with
portions. Is there anyone from the users list who might be interested in
tackling it? I can provide support on the writing of doc and Alex on the
parsing of LyX, it sounds like it's a matter of gluing pieces together.
As a first pass, I'd recommend supporting paragraph and character
styles, tables, images, and footnotes. Once you've got the basics
started, it's pretty to add additional features as you go (or at least,
that's what I've found).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On 3/9/2012 7:04 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> Can one import HTML, with its styles, into MSWord or Libreoffice? If
> so, then it sounds to me like eLyXer has already accomplished this,
> without any added work from you, Alex. You've already done the hard
> part, and Rob's done the other end of the hard part, and it sounds to
> me like if there's an MSWord HTML import, it's just a matter of a
> small script that anybody can do, completely separate from yours and
> Rob's work. Kind of like my lyx2kindle, three quarters of which is
> just a front-end to eLyXer.

I agree, I don't think that it needs to be very difficult. Writing a
Word XML document is a pain, but it's not very hard. There's plenty of
well documented examples for supporting a wide variety of features. What
it lacks is someone who is willing to pick it up and run with it.

I might have a student who would be interested, and I could help with
portions. Is there anyone from the users list who might be interested in
tackling it? I can provide support on the writing of doc and Alex on the
parsing of LyX, it sounds like it's a matter of gluing pieces together.
As a first pass, I'd recommend supporting paragraph and character
styles, tables, images, and footnotes. Once you've got the basics
started, it's pretty to add additional features as you go (or at least,
that's what I've found).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx: Word to LyX Document Converter

[Rob Oakes]

On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:56 AM, BH wrote:

 I'm very interested in this -- thanks for undertaking the project.
 However, I can't even get it started. On Mac (10.6.8), calling
 word2lyx from the Terminal, I get the following:
 
 ./word2lyx.py ./Example-Word2LyX.docx test.lyx

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File ./word2lyx.py, line 13, in module
from docx import read as docxread
  File /Users/bennett/Downloads/word2lyx/docx/read.py, line 10, in module
from parser import ElementTree as etree
  File /Users/bennett/Downloads/word2lyx/docx/parser.py, line 13, in module
class etree_element(ElementTree.Element):
 TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
function() argument 1 must be code, not str

No, I think that the problem may be due to the version that you are using. Snow 
Leopard uses Python 2.6, whereas I tested it against Python 2.7 (which can be 
found in Lion and in most Linux distributions). The problem is how I'm 
importing the XML module and needs to be reworked.

I'll get to this a little bit later today and post a fix as soon as I can.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On Mar 8, 2012, at 2:21 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 I would love to agree, but round-trip is what is needed most of the
 time. An import word2lyx is perfect, but in most cases only half the
 story. I would use it extensively if the round trip is possible.
 Obviously, we can not deal with the word-editing side (whatever
 program is used for that).

I'm sympathetic to this point. I understand that having a way to go from one to 
the other is important. I've deliberately avoided creating an export to Word 
option, though, because it would essentially require that I recode large 
portions of LyX in Python. I'm resistant to doing that because it's a a lot of 
extra code to maintain. There are already two implementations of LyX document 
parsing libraries: eLyXer and that found in LyX itself. Adding a third and 
trying to keep it in some sort of synchronization would be a huge pain. I'm 
looking into using eLyXer for Word conversion from LyX, but that is lesser 
priority than making Word import work correctly. (At least at the moment.) If 
there is someone (maybe Alex or another eLyXer dev) who would be interest in 
collaborating and handling the export part, I'd be happy to coordinate with 
them so that we're able to round-trip.

 People will take this as a promise and complain that it does not
 work well enough.
 
 Well -  one could state that the round-trip works for MS word version
 abcd, and other versions can / will / might cause problems which are
 not in our hands.

I've already taken that position. I'm willing to work with Word versions 2007 
and 2010, and only files saved in docx. I'm not going to even try and parse doc 
binary files. word2lyx is about a 1000 lines of code. The doc parsing libraries 
I've looked at are easily 10 times that long. Python has excellent libraries 
for parsing XML that do nearly all the heavy lifting. I would have to write my 
own parsing library for doc.

 The difference of structure between word and lyx are too important
 to be able to work in a word-LyX collaboration IMO.
 
 There are obviously basic difference in how LyX and word are viewing
 documents, and these lead to principal differences how the files are
 saved.
 
 But I am thinking that if one can import a docx file into LyX, one
 should be able to do the reverse. And one should be able to define a
 robust subset of features which are maintained when doing a round-trip.
 In the same way that certain features are not converted in word2lyx,
 lyx2word would also only support a subset of features which are
 exported. But if these subsets include the most important features
 used in the editing process on both sides, a round trip should be
 possible.

I agree that it is possible, but there's a lot of code needed to make it work 
correctly. It's also a larger problem set that I want to right now. Once I've 
got the Word import working, including track changes and notes (and probably 
maths, too), I'll be more willing to come back and take a look at it.

But as I said earlier, if there's someone who would like to jump on board and 
work with Word export (lyx2word), I'll be happy to coordinate and work with 
them, too.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx Fixes: Python Import Error

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users,

If you were trying to test word2lyx and got an import error, I've fixed the 
underlying issue (I hope). You can download the updated sources from 
http://oak-tree.us/stuff/LyX/word2lyx-01.zip. 

I've also posted all of the source code and revision history to: 
https://code.launchpad.net/~lyx-outline-devel/lyx-outline/lyx-word

If there is anyone who might be interested in helping work on the code, please 
let me know and I'll give you access to the repository. merge requests are very 
welcome.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx: Word to LyX Document Converter

[Rob Oakes]

On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:56 AM, BH wrote:

 I'm very interested in this -- thanks for undertaking the project.
 However, I can't even get it started. On Mac (10.6.8), calling
 word2lyx from the Terminal, I get the following:
 
 ./word2lyx.py ./Example-Word2LyX.docx test.lyx

 Traceback (most recent call last):
  File ./word2lyx.py, line 13, in module
from docx import read as docxread
  File /Users/bennett/Downloads/word2lyx/docx/read.py, line 10, in module
from parser import ElementTree as etree
  File /Users/bennett/Downloads/word2lyx/docx/parser.py, line 13, in module
class etree_element(ElementTree.Element):
 TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
function() argument 1 must be code, not str

No, I think that the problem may be due to the version that you are using. Snow 
Leopard uses Python 2.6, whereas I tested it against Python 2.7 (which can be 
found in Lion and in most Linux distributions). The problem is how I'm 
importing the XML module and needs to be reworked.

I'll get to this a little bit later today and post a fix as soon as I can.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On Mar 8, 2012, at 2:21 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:

 -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
 Hash: SHA1

 I would love to agree, but round-trip is what is needed most of the
 time. An import word2lyx is perfect, but in most cases only half the
 story. I would use it extensively if the round trip is possible.
 Obviously, we can not deal with the word-editing side (whatever
 program is used for that).

I'm sympathetic to this point. I understand that having a way to go from one to 
the other is important. I've deliberately avoided creating an export to Word 
option, though, because it would essentially require that I recode large 
portions of LyX in Python. I'm resistant to doing that because it's a a lot of 
extra code to maintain. There are already two implementations of LyX document 
parsing libraries: eLyXer and that found in LyX itself. Adding a third and 
trying to keep it in some sort of synchronization would be a huge pain. I'm 
looking into using eLyXer for Word conversion from LyX, but that is lesser 
priority than making Word import work correctly. (At least at the moment.) If 
there is someone (maybe Alex or another eLyXer dev) who would be interest in 
collaborating and handling the export part, I'd be happy to coordinate with 
them so that we're able to round-trip.

 People will take this as a promise and complain that it does not
 work well enough.
 
 Well -  one could state that the round-trip works for MS word version
 abcd, and other versions can / will / might cause problems which are
 not in our hands.

I've already taken that position. I'm willing to work with Word versions 2007 
and 2010, and only files saved in docx. I'm not going to even try and parse doc 
binary files. word2lyx is about a 1000 lines of code. The doc parsing libraries 
I've looked at are easily 10 times that long. Python has excellent libraries 
for parsing XML that do nearly all the heavy lifting. I would have to write my 
own parsing library for doc.

 The difference of structure between word and lyx are too important
 to be able to work in a word-LyX collaboration IMO.
 
 There are obviously basic difference in how LyX and word are viewing
 documents, and these lead to principal differences how the files are
 saved.
 
 But I am thinking that if one can import a docx file into LyX, one
 should be able to do the reverse. And one should be able to define a
 robust subset of features which are maintained when doing a round-trip.
 In the same way that certain features are not converted in word2lyx,
 lyx2word would also only support a subset of features which are
 exported. But if these subsets include the most important features
 used in the editing process on both sides, a round trip should be
 possible.

I agree that it is possible, but there's a lot of code needed to make it work 
correctly. It's also a larger problem set that I want to right now. Once I've 
got the Word import working, including track changes and notes (and probably 
maths, too), I'll be more willing to come back and take a look at it.

But as I said earlier, if there's someone who would like to jump on board and 
work with Word export (lyx2word), I'll be happy to coordinate and work with 
them, too.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx Fixes: Python Import Error

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users,

If you were trying to test word2lyx and got an import error, I've fixed the 
underlying issue (I hope). You can download the updated sources from 
http://oak-tree.us/stuff/LyX/word2lyx-01.zip. 

I've also posted all of the source code and revision history to: 
https://code.launchpad.net/~lyx-outline-devel/lyx-outline/lyx-word

If there is anyone who might be interested in helping work on the code, please 
let me know and I'll give you access to the repository. merge requests are very 
welcome.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx: Word to LyX Document Converter

[Rob Oakes]

On Mar 8, 2012, at 6:56 AM, BH wrote:

> I'm very interested in this -- thanks for undertaking the project.
> However, I can't even get it started. On Mac (10.6.8), calling
> word2lyx from the Terminal, I get the following:
> 
>> ./word2lyx.py ./Example-Word2LyX.docx test.lyx

> Traceback (most recent call last):
>  File "./word2lyx.py", line 13, in 
>from docx import read as docxread
>  File "/Users/bennett/Downloads/word2lyx/docx/read.py", line 10, in 
>from parser import ElementTree as etree
>  File "/Users/bennett/Downloads/word2lyx/docx/parser.py", line 13, in 
>class etree_element(ElementTree.Element):
> TypeError: Error when calling the metaclass bases
>function() argument 1 must be code, not str

No, I think that the problem may be due to the version that you are using. Snow 
Leopard uses Python 2.6, whereas I tested it against Python 2.7 (which can be 
found in Lion and in most Linux distributions). The problem is how I'm 
importing the XML module and needs to be reworked.

I'll get to this a little bit later today and post a fix as soon as I can.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On Mar 8, 2012, at 2:21 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1

> I would love to agree, but round-trip is what is needed most of the
> time. An import word2lyx is perfect, but in most cases only half the
> story. I would use it extensively if the round trip is possible.
> Obviously, we can not deal with the word-editing side (whatever
> program is used for that).

I'm sympathetic to this point. I understand that having a way to go from one to 
the other is important. I've deliberately avoided creating an export to Word 
option, though, because it would essentially require that I recode large 
portions of LyX in Python. I'm resistant to doing that because it's a a lot of 
extra code to maintain. There are already two implementations of LyX document 
parsing libraries: eLyXer and that found in LyX itself. Adding a third and 
trying to keep it in some sort of synchronization would be a huge pain. I'm 
looking into using eLyXer for Word conversion from LyX, but that is lesser 
priority than making Word import work correctly. (At least at the moment.) If 
there is someone (maybe Alex or another eLyXer dev) who would be interest in 
collaborating and handling the export part, I'd be happy to coordinate with 
them so that we're able to round-trip.

>> People will take this as a promise and complain that it does not
>> work well enough.
> 
> Well -  one could state that the round-trip works for MS word version
> abcd, and other versions can / will / might cause problems which are
> not in our hands.

I've already taken that position. I'm willing to work with Word versions 2007 
and 2010, and only files saved in docx. I'm not going to even try and parse doc 
binary files. word2lyx is about a 1000 lines of code. The doc parsing libraries 
I've looked at are easily 10 times that long. Python has excellent libraries 
for parsing XML that do nearly all the heavy lifting. I would have to write my 
own parsing library for doc.

>> The difference of structure between word and lyx are too important
>> to be able to work in a word<->LyX collaboration IMO.
> 
> There are obviously basic difference in how LyX and word are viewing
> documents, and these lead to principal differences how the files are
> saved.
> 
> But I am thinking that if one can import a docx file into LyX, one
> should be able to do the reverse. And one should be able to define a
> robust subset of features which are maintained when doing a round-trip.
> In the same way that certain features are not converted in word2lyx,
> lyx2word would also only support a subset of features which are
> exported. But if these subsets include the most important features
> used in the editing process on both sides, a round trip should be
> possible.

I agree that it is possible, but there's a lot of code needed to make it work 
correctly. It's also a larger problem set that I want to right now. Once I've 
got the Word import working, including track changes and notes (and probably 
maths, too), I'll be more willing to come back and take a look at it.

But as I said earlier, if there's someone who would like to jump on board and 
work with Word export (lyx2word), I'll be happy to coordinate and work with 
them, too.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx Fixes: Python Import Error

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users,

If you were trying to test word2lyx and got an import error, I've fixed the 
underlying issue (I hope). You can download the updated sources from 
http://oak-tree.us/stuff/LyX/word2lyx-01.zip. 

I've also posted all of the source code and revision history to: 
https://code.launchpad.net/~lyx-outline-devel/lyx-outline/lyx-word

If there is anyone who might be interested in helping work on the code, please 
let me know and I'll give you access to the repository. merge requests are very 
welcome.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On 3/5/2012 2:01 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:
 Actualy one more question - it might have been mentioned, but are you
 also looking into a lyx2word converter which would provide
 round-trips with track changes and notes?
I'd really like to provide for that, yes. However, there is something of
a hang-up. Going from Word to LyX is pretty straightforward. It will
even be possible to maintain track changes. (I still need to implement
this, but it's on the radar for 0.2). Going back to Word from LyX,
though, is a bit more complicated. Maintaining fidelity so that you can
exchange the same file with a colleague and track the whole change
history, that's very, very difficult. Possible, but really hard.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx: Word to LyX Document Converter

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

First off, thank you to everyone who sent me documents over the weekend.
I was able to make a lot of tweaks to word2lyx based on what you sent me.

With that hurdle out of the way, I think it's ready to release it into
the wild. If you'd like to download a copy of it, you can download the
code from:

http://oak-tree.us/stuff/LyX/word2lyx-01.zip

A brief write-up of the features and usage can be found at:

http://www.oak-tree.us/2012/03/07/word2lyx01-2/

If you download it and find it useful, please let me know. If you
download it and have problems, also please let me know. (Mostly so I can
fix the problems.)

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On 3/5/2012 2:01 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:
 Actualy one more question - it might have been mentioned, but are you
 also looking into a lyx2word converter which would provide
 round-trips with track changes and notes?
I'd really like to provide for that, yes. However, there is something of
a hang-up. Going from Word to LyX is pretty straightforward. It will
even be possible to maintain track changes. (I still need to implement
this, but it's on the radar for 0.2). Going back to Word from LyX,
though, is a bit more complicated. Maintaining fidelity so that you can
exchange the same file with a colleague and track the whole change
history, that's very, very difficult. Possible, but really hard.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx: Word to LyX Document Converter

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

First off, thank you to everyone who sent me documents over the weekend.
I was able to make a lot of tweaks to word2lyx based on what you sent me.

With that hurdle out of the way, I think it's ready to release it into
the wild. If you'd like to download a copy of it, you can download the
code from:

http://oak-tree.us/stuff/LyX/word2lyx-01.zip

A brief write-up of the features and usage can be found at:

http://www.oak-tree.us/2012/03/07/word2lyx01-2/

If you download it and find it useful, please let me know. If you
download it and have problems, also please let me know. (Mostly so I can
fix the problems.)

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

On 3/5/2012 2:01 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:
> Actualy one more question - it might have been mentioned, but are you
> also looking into a lyx2word converter which would provide
> round-trips with track changes and notes?
I'd really like to provide for that, yes. However, there is something of
a hang-up. Going from Word to LyX is pretty straightforward. It will
even be possible to maintain track changes. (I still need to implement
this, but it's on the radar for 0.2). Going back to Word from LyX,
though, is a bit more complicated. Maintaining fidelity so that you can
exchange the same file with a colleague and track the whole change
history, that's very, very difficult. Possible, but really hard.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx: Word to LyX Document Converter

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

First off, thank you to everyone who sent me documents over the weekend.
I was able to make a lot of tweaks to word2lyx based on what you sent me.

With that hurdle out of the way, I think it's ready to release it into
the wild. If you'd like to download a copy of it, you can download the
code from:

http://oak-tree.us/stuff/LyX/word2lyx-01.zip

A brief write-up of the features and usage can be found at:

http://www.oak-tree.us/2012/03/07/word2lyx01-2/

If you download it and find it useful, please let me know. If you
download it and have problems, also please let me know. (Mostly so I can
fix the problems.)

Cheers,

Rob

Import/Export Error Information (word2lyx)

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Developers,

I'm getting ready to publish the source for Word2LyX, but ran into one
last problem. I created an input filter/filetype to completely automate
the conversion of Word documents.

However, when run, I'm getting an error:

An error occurred while running:

python inputfile.docx outputfile.lyx

Is there any way to look at the debug output to try and track what might
be causing the error.

Cheers,

Rob

Import/Export Error Information (word2lyx)

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Developers,

I'm getting ready to publish the source for Word2LyX, but ran into one
last problem. I created an input filter/filetype to completely automate
the conversion of Word documents.

However, when run, I'm getting an error:

An error occurred while running:

python inputfile.docx outputfile.lyx

Is there any way to look at the debug output to try and track what might
be causing the error.

Cheers,

Rob

Import/Export Error Information (word2lyx)

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Developers,

I'm getting ready to publish the source for Word2LyX, but ran into one
last problem. I created an input filter/filetype to completely automate
the conversion of Word documents.

However, when run, I'm getting an error:

An error occurred while running:

python "inputfile.docx" "outputfile.lyx"

Is there any way to look at the debug output to try and track what might
be causing the error.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

I wanted to give everyone a quick status update on what I've been doing
with the Word to LyX importer.

Over the past couple of weeks, I've been working on it full steam and
it's now pretty functional. It supports:

 1. Translating Word paragraph and character styles to LyX paragraph and
character styles. In the case of character styles that aren't
defined, it will write entries for them into the local layout
(including basic LaTeX commands).
 2. Importing Word tables, including those with merged rows or columns.
It will also do its best with the table borders.
 3. Enumerated and itemized lists.
 4. Importing images from the Word document. (It skips over embedded
objects, such as charts from Excel.)
 5. The use of custom templates, which allows you to fine tune importing
your documents. I've created templates for article.cls and book.cls.
I'll also probably create one for memoir.cls as well.

Before release, I still need to implement support for footnotes and
endnotes (which is pretty easy).

Which brings me to the main reason I'm writing. Before releasing the
code, I'd really like to test it on a couple of in the wild documents.
It does pretty well on the test documents I've thrown at it from my own
library. But ... that's just me. I use Word in a very particular way.

If there's anyone who wouldn't mind, I'd really like to throw other test
documents at it. If you would be willing to donate one, please let me
know. This would allow me to check a wide variety of work and nail down
a couple more issues before a public test. I will keep all documents
confidential and delete after I've finished testing.

If everything goes well, I'll release the 0.1 version (which will still
need quite some cleaning up) early next week.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

Hi James,

On 3/2/2012 4:18 PM, James Sutherland wrote:
 This sounds very nice!
Thanks. I appreciate that.
 Any ideas about whether you will be able to support cross references
 and translate that into LyX/LaTeX labels/references?
 James

Short answer, yes. It's one of the three or four things I still have yet
to implement. It will be in the 0.1 release, though.

I'm also planning on translating embedded data (such as traveling
EndNote bibliographies or Zotero inserts) into BibTeX databases and
adding citation commands. That, however, will have to be a 0.2 feature
as it requires quite a bit more infrastructure to support.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

I wanted to give everyone a quick status update on what I've been doing
with the Word to LyX importer.

Over the past couple of weeks, I've been working on it full steam and
it's now pretty functional. It supports:

 1. Translating Word paragraph and character styles to LyX paragraph and
character styles. In the case of character styles that aren't
defined, it will write entries for them into the local layout
(including basic LaTeX commands).
 2. Importing Word tables, including those with merged rows or columns.
It will also do its best with the table borders.
 3. Enumerated and itemized lists.
 4. Importing images from the Word document. (It skips over embedded
objects, such as charts from Excel.)
 5. The use of custom templates, which allows you to fine tune importing
your documents. I've created templates for article.cls and book.cls.
I'll also probably create one for memoir.cls as well.

Before release, I still need to implement support for footnotes and
endnotes (which is pretty easy).

Which brings me to the main reason I'm writing. Before releasing the
code, I'd really like to test it on a couple of in the wild documents.
It does pretty well on the test documents I've thrown at it from my own
library. But ... that's just me. I use Word in a very particular way.

If there's anyone who wouldn't mind, I'd really like to throw other test
documents at it. If you would be willing to donate one, please let me
know. This would allow me to check a wide variety of work and nail down
a couple more issues before a public test. I will keep all documents
confidential and delete after I've finished testing.

If everything goes well, I'll release the 0.1 version (which will still
need quite some cleaning up) early next week.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

Hi James,

On 3/2/2012 4:18 PM, James Sutherland wrote:
 This sounds very nice!
Thanks. I appreciate that.
 Any ideas about whether you will be able to support cross references
 and translate that into LyX/LaTeX labels/references?
 James

Short answer, yes. It's one of the three or four things I still have yet
to implement. It will be in the 0.1 release, though.

I'm also planning on translating embedded data (such as traveling
EndNote bibliographies or Zotero inserts) into BibTeX databases and
adding citation commands. That, however, will have to be a 0.2 feature
as it requires quite a bit more infrastructure to support.

Cheers,

Rob

word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

I wanted to give everyone a quick status update on what I've been doing
with the Word to LyX importer.

Over the past couple of weeks, I've been working on it full steam and
it's now pretty functional. It supports:

 1. Translating Word paragraph and character styles to LyX paragraph and
character styles. In the case of character styles that aren't
defined, it will write entries for them into the local layout
(including basic LaTeX commands).
 2. Importing Word tables, including those with merged rows or columns.
It will also do its best with the table borders.
 3. Enumerated and itemized lists.
 4. Importing images from the Word document. (It skips over embedded
objects, such as charts from Excel.)
 5. The use of custom templates, which allows you to fine tune importing
your documents. I've created templates for article.cls and book.cls.
I'll also probably create one for memoir.cls as well.

Before release, I still need to implement support for footnotes and
endnotes (which is pretty easy).

Which brings me to the main reason I'm writing. Before releasing the
code, I'd really like to test it on a couple of "in the wild" documents.
It does pretty well on the test documents I've thrown at it from my own
library. But ... that's just me. I use Word in a very particular way.

If there's anyone who wouldn't mind, I'd really like to throw other test
documents at it. If you would be willing to donate one, please let me
know. This would allow me to check a wide variety of work and nail down
a couple more issues before a public test. I will keep all documents
confidential and delete after I've finished testing.

If everything goes well, I'll release the 0.1 version (which will still
need quite some cleaning up) early next week.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: word2lyx (Word to LyX Translator): Status Update

[Rob Oakes]

Hi James,

On 3/2/2012 4:18 PM, James Sutherland wrote:
> This sounds very nice!
Thanks. I appreciate that.
> Any ideas about whether you will be able to support cross references
> and translate that into LyX/LaTeX labels/references?
> James

Short answer, yes. It's one of the three or four things I still have yet
to implement. It will be in the 0.1 release, though.

I'm also planning on translating embedded data (such as traveling
EndNote bibliographies or Zotero inserts) into BibTeX databases and
adding citation commands. That, however, will have to be a 0.2 feature
as it requires quite a bit more infrastructure to support.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

On 2/9/2012 11:42 AM, Alex Fernandez wrote:
 Ah, OK. Always hated DOM. eLyXer's in-memory representation is for the
 LyX document, not of the resulting HTML document. Much tighter this
 way, IMHO.

Is there an example of how I might be able to access the in-memory
representation for the LyX document? If possible, I'd like to be able to
get some sort of iterable object that could be used to translate the
structure into the XML structure used by Microsoft Word.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

On 2/9/2012 11:42 AM, Alex Fernandez wrote:
 Ah, OK. Always hated DOM. eLyXer's in-memory representation is for the
 LyX document, not of the resulting HTML document. Much tighter this
 way, IMHO.

Is there an example of how I might be able to access the in-memory
representation for the LyX document? If possible, I'd like to be able to
get some sort of iterable object that could be used to translate the
structure into the XML structure used by Microsoft Word.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

On 2/9/2012 11:42 AM, Alex Fernandez wrote:
> Ah, OK. Always hated DOM. eLyXer's in-memory representation is for the
> LyX document, not of the resulting HTML document. Much tighter this
> way, IMHO.

Is there an example of how I might be able to access the in-memory
representation for the LyX document? If possible, I'd like to be able to
get some sort of iterable object that could be used to translate the
structure into the XML structure used by Microsoft Word.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

On Feb 5, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:

 Strong suggestion: use LyX proper. I am quite sure you already know that 
 because I saw some patches from you in this area but I'll explain anyway: 
 LyX's html own export is so good and fast because it effectively knows the 
 in-memory representation of the document. You can't be faster nor more 
 accurate than that. I mean, unless you want to rewrite LyX in python.

Extremely good point, I'm also more comfortable with the HTML export available 
in LyX. I initially was interested in eLyXer because I thought I might be able 
to use it to help with an import filter as well. I'm not sure that it can, 
though. As you note in your email, it doesn't create a document model.

 IIUC you want a single module in python for both import and export in python. 
 But I don't think this is a valid argument. As for the word to lyx format 
 conversion, if you want to use this epub library there must be a way to use 
 that in C++ I'm sure…

I though about using Python because I'd found a tool capable of generating docx 
for me. After working with it a little more, though, I'm less enamored with it. 
 docx is a pretty straightforward file format, and there's quite a few things 
that are sloppily implemented.

 AFAIK, eLyXer doesn't construct a document model. So you'd better spend this 
 time reading the C++ code for exporting to html/xhtml ;-)

Following Steve's suggestion, I decided to try the easy way and directly 
parse the XHTML created by eLyXer. Turns out that it's not only easy, but 
probably the best way forward. There are some excellent libraries for reading 
XML in python. Using lxml, in particular, looks like a good solution. You 
generate the XHTML, parse it with lxml, and then iterate over the elements, 
translating as you go. My current script is about 50 lines long, and can be 
used with either native XHTML or eLyXer. To add new features, you add 
additional cases describing how to translate the XHTML.

Which brings us to an important point: there's already a pretty good LyX - 
XHTML - LibreOffice - Word pathway for translating documents. Unless I 
directly implement Word as another backend (which, while a lot of work, isn't 
difficult), I'm not sure there's much reason for a direct MS Word export. The 
real need seems to be for an MS Word import, anyway.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

On Feb 5, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:

 Strong suggestion: use LyX proper. I am quite sure you already know that 
 because I saw some patches from you in this area but I'll explain anyway: 
 LyX's html own export is so good and fast because it effectively knows the 
 in-memory representation of the document. You can't be faster nor more 
 accurate than that. I mean, unless you want to rewrite LyX in python.

Extremely good point, I'm also more comfortable with the HTML export available 
in LyX. I initially was interested in eLyXer because I thought I might be able 
to use it to help with an import filter as well. I'm not sure that it can, 
though. As you note in your email, it doesn't create a document model.

 IIUC you want a single module in python for both import and export in python. 
 But I don't think this is a valid argument. As for the word to lyx format 
 conversion, if you want to use this epub library there must be a way to use 
 that in C++ I'm sure…

I though about using Python because I'd found a tool capable of generating docx 
for me. After working with it a little more, though, I'm less enamored with it. 
 docx is a pretty straightforward file format, and there's quite a few things 
that are sloppily implemented.

 AFAIK, eLyXer doesn't construct a document model. So you'd better spend this 
 time reading the C++ code for exporting to html/xhtml ;-)

Following Steve's suggestion, I decided to try the easy way and directly 
parse the XHTML created by eLyXer. Turns out that it's not only easy, but 
probably the best way forward. There are some excellent libraries for reading 
XML in python. Using lxml, in particular, looks like a good solution. You 
generate the XHTML, parse it with lxml, and then iterate over the elements, 
translating as you go. My current script is about 50 lines long, and can be 
used with either native XHTML or eLyXer. To add new features, you add 
additional cases describing how to translate the XHTML.

Which brings us to an important point: there's already a pretty good LyX - 
XHTML - LibreOffice - Word pathway for translating documents. Unless I 
directly implement Word as another backend (which, while a lot of work, isn't 
difficult), I'm not sure there's much reason for a direct MS Word export. The 
real need seems to be for an MS Word import, anyway.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

On Feb 5, 2012, at 2:04 AM, Abdelrazak Younes wrote:

> Strong suggestion: use LyX proper. I am quite sure you already know that 
> because I saw some patches from you in this area but I'll explain anyway: 
> LyX's html own export is so good and fast because it effectively knows the 
> in-memory representation of the document. You can't be faster nor more 
> accurate than that. I mean, unless you want to rewrite LyX in python.

Extremely good point, I'm also more comfortable with the HTML export available 
in LyX. I initially was interested in eLyXer because I thought I might be able 
to use it to help with an import filter as well. I'm not sure that it can, 
though. As you note in your email, it doesn't create a document model.

> IIUC you want a single module in python for both import and export in python. 
> But I don't think this is a valid argument. As for the word to lyx format 
> conversion, if you want to use this epub library there must be a way to use 
> that in C++ I'm sure…

I though about using Python because I'd found a tool capable of generating docx 
for me. After working with it a little more, though, I'm less enamored with it. 
 docx is a pretty straightforward file format, and there's quite a few things 
that are sloppily implemented.

> AFAIK, eLyXer doesn't construct a document model. So you'd better spend this 
> time reading the C++ code for exporting to html/xhtml ;-)

Following Steve's suggestion, I decided to try the "easy" way and directly 
parse the XHTML created by eLyXer. Turns out that it's not only easy, but 
probably the best way forward. There are some excellent libraries for reading 
XML in python. Using lxml, in particular, looks like a good solution. You 
generate the XHTML, parse it with lxml, and then iterate over the elements, 
translating as you go. My current script is about 50 lines long, and can be 
used with either native XHTML or eLyXer. To add new features, you add 
additional cases describing how to translate the XHTML.

Which brings us to an important point: there's already a pretty good LyX -> 
XHTML -> LibreOffice -> Word pathway for translating documents. Unless I 
directly implement Word as another backend (which, while a lot of work, isn't 
difficult), I'm not sure there's much reason for a direct MS Word export. The 
real need seems to be for an MS Word import, anyway.

Cheers,

Rob

eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

Dear eLyXer Users and Developers,

I'm still at work on the import/export module for Microsoft Word documents. I'm 
making pretty good progress. I've got a rough prototype that works pretty well 
and I'm now starting to refine it.

My approach up to now has been to use regular expressions to match portions of 
the document and then use a library to translate those to the corresponding 
Word XML structures. It's working pretty well with my simple test documents.

Before going too far with this approach, though, I wanted to post (another 
general query).

In the eLyXer library, there is already a robust set of tools used for 
converting LyX documents to HTML. Does anyone know if the library is written in 
such as way that getting a generic in-memory representation of the document 
would be possible? It would be awesome to re-use as much existing code for the 
Word document export as possible. That would allow me to support a broader 
number of features, and gives me a framework for working with maths.

Any thoughts Alex (and others)? I've downloaded the sources and have begun to 
work through them, but before spending hours to days trying to wrap my head 
around them, I thought I would ask.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Steve,

 Not only possible but easy if you do things the Steve Litt way. eLyXer
 quickly punches out HTML that's clean enough to read with an XML
 parser, I think. So, eLyXer converts to HTML, and then your program's
 DOMbuilder module converts that HTML to in-memory DOM. No muss, no
 fuss, no bother, no picking apart eLyXer code (it's big and not
 immediately obvious, not a single weekend task).

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll need to look into this further. It's 
definitely the easiest way to go, and easy is usually the best. So says the Zen 
of Python (sort of):

If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

I was hoping for a slightly more direct route, though. That would allow me to 
maintain some of the internal data, such as cross-links. But, as I don't have 
months to implement, easy is always better than hard.

 One more question: You sure you want to go in-memory? What happens if a
 guy has a 1200 page book with 100 chapters each containing 10 sections,
 each containing 10 subsections, and tries to parse it on a machine with 512 
 MB RAM? 

I pity this poor man's decision to convert the whole mess to Word, rather than 
splitting it out into individual chapters.

But, I appreciate the voice for reason answer sanity and best practice. Short 
answer, no, not convinced that I want to go in memory. My first pass was to 
just to become comfortable with eLyXer to see if it might meet my needs. I'm 
still try to get comfortable with the structure of LyX documents and .docx 
documents. I've found a nice little python library with support for basic docx 
features and was going to try and refine that to something slightly more usable.

 You in a heap of trouble son. He'll be swapped half way into the next 
 century. If
 instead you used an event parser (e.g SAX) with a few stacks, it will
 probably be slower, and it will be much more hard to write, but for
 practical purposes there won't be an upper limit on input file size.

Good points. The python library makes use of lxml, which supports sax. After 
I've got a better handle on my constraints, I'll spend the time required to 
design something more robust. 

Cheers,

Rob

eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

Dear eLyXer Users and Developers,

I'm still at work on the import/export module for Microsoft Word documents. I'm 
making pretty good progress. I've got a rough prototype that works pretty well 
and I'm now starting to refine it.

My approach up to now has been to use regular expressions to match portions of 
the document and then use a library to translate those to the corresponding 
Word XML structures. It's working pretty well with my simple test documents.

Before going too far with this approach, though, I wanted to post (another 
general query).

In the eLyXer library, there is already a robust set of tools used for 
converting LyX documents to HTML. Does anyone know if the library is written in 
such as way that getting a generic in-memory representation of the document 
would be possible? It would be awesome to re-use as much existing code for the 
Word document export as possible. That would allow me to support a broader 
number of features, and gives me a framework for working with maths.

Any thoughts Alex (and others)? I've downloaded the sources and have begun to 
work through them, but before spending hours to days trying to wrap my head 
around them, I thought I would ask.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Steve,

 Not only possible but easy if you do things the Steve Litt way. eLyXer
 quickly punches out HTML that's clean enough to read with an XML
 parser, I think. So, eLyXer converts to HTML, and then your program's
 DOMbuilder module converts that HTML to in-memory DOM. No muss, no
 fuss, no bother, no picking apart eLyXer code (it's big and not
 immediately obvious, not a single weekend task).

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll need to look into this further. It's 
definitely the easiest way to go, and easy is usually the best. So says the Zen 
of Python (sort of):

If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

I was hoping for a slightly more direct route, though. That would allow me to 
maintain some of the internal data, such as cross-links. But, as I don't have 
months to implement, easy is always better than hard.

 One more question: You sure you want to go in-memory? What happens if a
 guy has a 1200 page book with 100 chapters each containing 10 sections,
 each containing 10 subsections, and tries to parse it on a machine with 512 
 MB RAM? 

I pity this poor man's decision to convert the whole mess to Word, rather than 
splitting it out into individual chapters.

But, I appreciate the voice for reason answer sanity and best practice. Short 
answer, no, not convinced that I want to go in memory. My first pass was to 
just to become comfortable with eLyXer to see if it might meet my needs. I'm 
still try to get comfortable with the structure of LyX documents and .docx 
documents. I've found a nice little python library with support for basic docx 
features and was going to try and refine that to something slightly more usable.

 You in a heap of trouble son. He'll be swapped half way into the next 
 century. If
 instead you used an event parser (e.g SAX) with a few stacks, it will
 probably be slower, and it will be much more hard to write, but for
 practical purposes there won't be an upper limit on input file size.

Good points. The python library makes use of lxml, which supports sax. After 
I've got a better handle on my constraints, I'll spend the time required to 
design something more robust. 

Cheers,

Rob

eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

Dear eLyXer Users and Developers,

I'm still at work on the import/export module for Microsoft Word documents. I'm 
making pretty good progress. I've got a rough prototype that works pretty well 
and I'm now starting to refine it.

My approach up to now has been to use regular expressions to match portions of 
the document and then use a library to translate those to the corresponding 
Word XML structures. It's working pretty well with my simple test documents.

Before going too far with this approach, though, I wanted to post (another 
general query).

In the eLyXer library, there is already a robust set of tools used for 
converting LyX documents to HTML. Does anyone know if the library is written in 
such as way that getting a generic in-memory representation of the document 
would be possible? It would be awesome to re-use as much existing code for the 
Word document export as possible. That would allow me to support a broader 
number of features, and gives me a framework for working with maths.

Any thoughts Alex (and others)? I've downloaded the sources and have begun to 
work through them, but before spending hours to days trying to wrap my head 
around them, I thought I would ask.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: eLyXer for Document Parsing

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Steve,

> Not only possible but easy if you do things the Steve Litt way. eLyXer
> quickly punches out HTML that's clean enough to read with an XML
> parser, I think. So, eLyXer converts to HTML, and then your program's
> DOMbuilder module converts that HTML to in-memory DOM. No muss, no
> fuss, no bother, no picking apart eLyXer code (it's big and not
> immediately obvious, not a single weekend task).

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll need to look into this further. It's 
definitely the easiest way to go, and easy is usually the best. So says the Zen 
of Python (sort of):

If the implementation is hard to explain, it's a bad idea.
If the implementation is easy to explain, it may be a good idea.
Namespaces are one honking great idea -- let's do more of those!

I was hoping for a slightly more direct route, though. That would allow me to 
maintain some of the internal data, such as cross-links. But, as I don't have 
months to implement, easy is always better than hard.

> One more question: You sure you want to go in-memory? What happens if a
> guy has a 1200 page book with 100 chapters each containing 10 sections,
> each containing 10 subsections, and tries to parse it on a machine with 512 
> MB RAM? 

I pity this poor man's decision to convert the whole mess to Word, rather than 
splitting it out into individual chapters.

But, I appreciate the voice for reason answer sanity and best practice. Short 
answer, no, not convinced that I want to go in memory. My first pass was to 
just to become comfortable with eLyXer to see if it might meet my needs. I'm 
still try to get comfortable with the structure of LyX documents and .docx 
documents. I've found a nice little python library with support for basic docx 
features and was going to try and refine that to something slightly more usable.

> You in a heap of trouble son. He'll be swapped half way into the next 
> century. If
> instead you used an event parser (e.g SAX) with a few stacks, it will
> probably be slower, and it will be much more hard to write, but for
> practical purposes there won't be an upper limit on input file size.

Good points. The python library makes use of lxml, which supports sax. After 
I've got a better handle on my constraints, I'll spend the time required to 
design something more robust. 

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Thank you everyone for the comments so far. I really appreciate hearing from 
others as it helps me to build out a more detailed use-case. In addition to the 
earlier questions, I have one more:

How important is support of .doc?

I know that it is the standard upon which the publishing industry is built, but 
… It's a real pain to parse. In contrast, docx (the default file format in Word 
2007 and 2010) is very parse. It's basically an XML document in a zipped folder 
with assets.

I've already got a working prototype that can take a very simple LyX document 
and converts it to docx. Here's what supported:

1.) Syles
2.) Images/Figures

Expanding this prototype is pretty easy. Trying to support doc is hard 
(painfully hard). There are pretty good import filters for OpenOffice and 
AbiWord for docx. docx is supported in Microsoft Word 2007 and 2010, and users 
of 2003 can download a plugin which is capable of reading it.

If I go ahead with support for docx, I think I can write a full featured 
import/export plugin, including:

1.) Bibliographies using Word's native format and (maybe) Endnote (I've found a 
python library that can parse BibTeX and building export for these two formats 
is do-able)
2.) Cross-references (I still need to figure out how this is done in Word, but 
so-far, the docx standard is pretty easy to follow)
3.) Comments and Change Tracking

How to deal with maths is still up in the air. LyX offers the ability to 
typeset nearly anything mathematical, which means there's a very large set of 
markup to support. Exporting to MathML might be one option, but that would 
require Word users to install a plugin. Exporting to Office Math Language (the 
new math language in Office 2007 and 2010) is another, but proprietary. 
Exporting to MathType is a third, which is both proprietary and requires that 
users install an add-in (which they have to pay for). I'm not particularly 
thrilled about any of the above. I'll continue to research and report what I 
find.

In the meantime, hearing about what features should be supported would be very 
nice. Hearing your opinions about doc support (versus only docx support) would 
also be very helpful.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Les Denham wrote:

 Supporting Styles and Figures is a major achievement as far as I am
 concerned. I assume you don't do much in deciphering the fingerpainting
 favored by most Word users. Such crass formatting is probably best left
 as Standard in LyX anyway.

Right, I'm not getting into the game where I'm going to try and support all of 
the formatting combinations that Word users can come up with. But I do intend 
to support styles in all of their incarnations: paragraph, character, and 
otherwise. To make this possible, what I'll probably do is use the book/article 
classes as a basis for the import and then generate placeholder entries for 
other styles in the LyX local layout.

That will prevent errors and problems and allow for you to convert to the 
document class of your choice without problems. Once there, you remove the 
placeholder entries, or define them further.

Cheers,

Rob

Request for Feedback (OpenSource Materials)

[Rob Oakes]

In addition to the other request for feedback, I was wondering if I might 
pester the community for one other favor. I'm currently putting together 
materials for a workshop. It's meant to introduce students (math, science, 
graduate, medical) to open tools and how they can be used for writing. It's 
based on the never-ending book project.

I'm hoping to use both videos and handouts. All of the workshop materials will 
be released under the GPL (or the open documentation license, I haven't decided 
which). Here is a brief outline:

1.) Word processors versus document processors and why you should be using the 
latter (Workshop Discussion)
2.) Preparing major documents, such as your thesis or book, with LyX and LaTeX 
(Workshop Discussion)
4.) Setup and installation of LyX, LaTeX, and related tools (R, Sweave, Knitr) 
(Video Series)
3.) Creating and maintaining a bibliographic database (Zotero, BibTeX) (Video 
Series)
5.) Collaboration with version control systems, such as Subversion (Handout)

While I'm still working on the first four points of the outline, I've managed 
to get most of the Version Control handout written. I was wondering if I could 
solicit feedback on what's been produced so far: 

1.) Part 1: Why You Should be Using Version Control 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/02/13/subversion1)
2.) Part 2: Advanced Stuff 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/20/subversion2)
3.) Part 3.1: Collaboration Fundamentals 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/24/subversion31)
4.) Part 3.2: Locks and Idea Ownership 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/25/subversion32)
5.) Part 3.3: Communication and Logs 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/27/subversion33)
6.) Part 3.4: Using Branches for Review 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/30/subversion34)
7.) Part 4: Handling Conflicts and Errors 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/02/01/subversion4)

Thoughts related to style, structure, and content would all be appreciated. As 
the project is only tangentially related to LyX, though, I would appreciate 
comments on the posts or private mail. (I don't want to spam uninterested 
parties.)

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Thank you everyone for the comments so far. I really appreciate hearing from 
others as it helps me to build out a more detailed use-case. In addition to the 
earlier questions, I have one more:

How important is support of .doc?

I know that it is the standard upon which the publishing industry is built, but 
… It's a real pain to parse. In contrast, docx (the default file format in Word 
2007 and 2010) is very parse. It's basically an XML document in a zipped folder 
with assets.

I've already got a working prototype that can take a very simple LyX document 
and converts it to docx. Here's what supported:

1.) Syles
2.) Images/Figures

Expanding this prototype is pretty easy. Trying to support doc is hard 
(painfully hard). There are pretty good import filters for OpenOffice and 
AbiWord for docx. docx is supported in Microsoft Word 2007 and 2010, and users 
of 2003 can download a plugin which is capable of reading it.

If I go ahead with support for docx, I think I can write a full featured 
import/export plugin, including:

1.) Bibliographies using Word's native format and (maybe) Endnote (I've found a 
python library that can parse BibTeX and building export for these two formats 
is do-able)
2.) Cross-references (I still need to figure out how this is done in Word, but 
so-far, the docx standard is pretty easy to follow)
3.) Comments and Change Tracking

How to deal with maths is still up in the air. LyX offers the ability to 
typeset nearly anything mathematical, which means there's a very large set of 
markup to support. Exporting to MathML might be one option, but that would 
require Word users to install a plugin. Exporting to Office Math Language (the 
new math language in Office 2007 and 2010) is another, but proprietary. 
Exporting to MathType is a third, which is both proprietary and requires that 
users install an add-in (which they have to pay for). I'm not particularly 
thrilled about any of the above. I'll continue to research and report what I 
find.

In the meantime, hearing about what features should be supported would be very 
nice. Hearing your opinions about doc support (versus only docx support) would 
also be very helpful.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Les Denham wrote:

 Supporting Styles and Figures is a major achievement as far as I am
 concerned. I assume you don't do much in deciphering the fingerpainting
 favored by most Word users. Such crass formatting is probably best left
 as Standard in LyX anyway.

Right, I'm not getting into the game where I'm going to try and support all of 
the formatting combinations that Word users can come up with. But I do intend 
to support styles in all of their incarnations: paragraph, character, and 
otherwise. To make this possible, what I'll probably do is use the book/article 
classes as a basis for the import and then generate placeholder entries for 
other styles in the LyX local layout.

That will prevent errors and problems and allow for you to convert to the 
document class of your choice without problems. Once there, you remove the 
placeholder entries, or define them further.

Cheers,

Rob

Request for Feedback (OpenSource Materials)

[Rob Oakes]

In addition to the other request for feedback, I was wondering if I might 
pester the community for one other favor. I'm currently putting together 
materials for a workshop. It's meant to introduce students (math, science, 
graduate, medical) to open tools and how they can be used for writing. It's 
based on the never-ending book project.

I'm hoping to use both videos and handouts. All of the workshop materials will 
be released under the GPL (or the open documentation license, I haven't decided 
which). Here is a brief outline:

1.) Word processors versus document processors and why you should be using the 
latter (Workshop Discussion)
2.) Preparing major documents, such as your thesis or book, with LyX and LaTeX 
(Workshop Discussion)
4.) Setup and installation of LyX, LaTeX, and related tools (R, Sweave, Knitr) 
(Video Series)
3.) Creating and maintaining a bibliographic database (Zotero, BibTeX) (Video 
Series)
5.) Collaboration with version control systems, such as Subversion (Handout)

While I'm still working on the first four points of the outline, I've managed 
to get most of the Version Control handout written. I was wondering if I could 
solicit feedback on what's been produced so far: 

1.) Part 1: Why You Should be Using Version Control 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/02/13/subversion1)
2.) Part 2: Advanced Stuff 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/20/subversion2)
3.) Part 3.1: Collaboration Fundamentals 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/24/subversion31)
4.) Part 3.2: Locks and Idea Ownership 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/25/subversion32)
5.) Part 3.3: Communication and Logs 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/27/subversion33)
6.) Part 3.4: Using Branches for Review 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/30/subversion34)
7.) Part 4: Handling Conflicts and Errors 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/02/01/subversion4)

Thoughts related to style, structure, and content would all be appreciated. As 
the project is only tangentially related to LyX, though, I would appreciate 
comments on the posts or private mail. (I don't want to spam uninterested 
parties.)

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Thank you everyone for the comments so far. I really appreciate hearing from 
others as it helps me to build out a more detailed use-case. In addition to the 
earlier questions, I have one more:

How important is support of .doc?

I know that it is the standard upon which the publishing industry is built, but 
… It's a real pain to parse. In contrast, docx (the default file format in Word 
2007 and 2010) is very parse. It's basically an XML document in a zipped folder 
with assets.

I've already got a working prototype that can take a very simple LyX document 
and converts it to docx. Here's what supported:

1.) Syles
2.) Images/Figures

Expanding this prototype is pretty easy. Trying to support doc is hard 
(painfully hard). There are pretty good import filters for OpenOffice and 
AbiWord for docx. docx is supported in Microsoft Word 2007 and 2010, and users 
of 2003 can download a plugin which is capable of reading it.

If I go ahead with support for docx, I think I can write a full featured 
import/export plugin, including:

1.) Bibliographies using Word's native format and (maybe) Endnote (I've found a 
python library that can parse BibTeX and building export for these two formats 
is do-able)
2.) Cross-references (I still need to figure out how this is done in Word, but 
so-far, the docx standard is pretty easy to follow)
3.) Comments and Change Tracking

How to deal with maths is still up in the air. LyX offers the ability to 
typeset nearly anything mathematical, which means there's a very large set of 
markup to support. Exporting to MathML might be one option, but that would 
require Word users to install a plugin. Exporting to Office Math Language (the 
new math language in Office 2007 and 2010) is another, but proprietary. 
Exporting to MathType is a third, which is both proprietary and requires that 
users install an add-in (which they have to pay for). I'm not particularly 
thrilled about any of the above. I'll continue to research and report what I 
find.

In the meantime, hearing about what features should be supported would be very 
nice. Hearing your opinions about doc support (versus only docx support) would 
also be very helpful.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

On Feb 2, 2012, at 11:26 AM, Les Denham wrote:

> Supporting Styles and Figures is a major achievement as far as I am
> concerned. I assume you don't do much in deciphering the fingerpainting
> favored by most Word users. Such crass formatting is probably best left
> as Standard in LyX anyway.

Right, I'm not getting into the game where I'm going to try and support all of 
the formatting combinations that Word users can come up with. But I do intend 
to support styles in all of their incarnations: paragraph, character, and 
otherwise. To make this possible, what I'll probably do is use the book/article 
classes as a basis for the import and then generate placeholder entries for 
other styles in the LyX local layout.

That will prevent errors and problems and allow for you to convert to the 
document class of your choice without problems. Once there, you remove the 
placeholder entries, or define them further.

Cheers,

Rob

Request for Feedback (OpenSource Materials)

[Rob Oakes]

In addition to the other request for feedback, I was wondering if I might 
pester the community for one other favor. I'm currently putting together 
materials for a workshop. It's meant to introduce students (math, science, 
graduate, medical) to open tools and how they can be used for writing. It's 
based on the never-ending book project.

I'm hoping to use both videos and handouts. All of the workshop materials will 
be released under the GPL (or the open documentation license, I haven't decided 
which). Here is a brief outline:

1.) Word processors versus document processors and why you should be using the 
latter (Workshop Discussion)
2.) Preparing major documents, such as your thesis or book, with LyX and LaTeX 
(Workshop Discussion)
4.) Setup and installation of LyX, LaTeX, and related tools (R, Sweave, Knitr) 
(Video Series)
3.) Creating and maintaining a bibliographic database (Zotero, BibTeX) (Video 
Series)
5.) Collaboration with version control systems, such as Subversion (Handout)

While I'm still working on the first four points of the outline, I've managed 
to get most of the Version Control handout written. I was wondering if I could 
solicit feedback on what's been produced so far: 

1.) Part 1: Why You Should be Using Version Control 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2009/02/13/subversion1)
2.) Part 2: Advanced Stuff 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/20/subversion2)
3.) Part 3.1: Collaboration Fundamentals 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/24/subversion31)
4.) Part 3.2: Locks and Idea Ownership 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/25/subversion32)
5.) Part 3.3: Communication and Logs 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/27/subversion33)
6.) Part 3.4: Using Branches for Review 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/01/30/subversion34)
7.) Part 4: Handling Conflicts and Errors 
(http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2012/02/01/subversion4)

Thoughts related to style, structure, and content would all be appreciated. As 
the project is only tangentially related to LyX, though, I would appreciate 
comments on the posts or private mail. (I don't want to spam uninterested 
parties.)

Cheers,

Rob

Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

Some time ago, I was experimenting with importing documents into LyX
(specifically about how to crack the import MS Word to LyX nut). In the
process, I got really excited about using OpenOffice to convert the word
document to HTML, running tidy on the HTML and then importing that way.
(The original blog article about this can be found at
http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/14/msword-lyx-import.)

Since I'm (re)writing a book chapter about this topic, I thought that I
would look at alternative strategies for importing Word (and other file
formats) into LyX. While doing research, I came across a (potentially)
much better solution.

Somewhat recently (in 2010), a group of Python libraries were written
that handle document conversions. They are part of the epub-tools
library (http://code.google.com/p/epub-tools/). (I've been experimenting
with ePub document creation from LyX, which is how I found them.)

One of the tools in the library is able to parse Microsoft word
documents and convert them to XHTML in preparation for generating an
ePub file. I think that the tool can be adapted for directly converting
Word docs to LyX. Not to LaTeX and then to LyX, but /directly to LyX/.

I'm putting together a library to experiment with direct conversions
(this is ostensibly being done for the never-ending book project, but
will be released as open code), but before getting too deep into
development, I wanted to poll:

 1. Is this a tool that would prove useful to yourselves, your
collaborators, and others?
 2. What features would you consider essential?

(Right now, styles based conversion looks pretty easy -- going from
Heading 1 in Word to Chapter, for example. But I'm not sure how well
it would convert maths. This is something I'll still need to look
at, and may require writing an additional module.)

 3. What is the best tool to look at for guidance in creating a new
script for word2lyx? tex2lyx?
 4. Does the script need to support special cases, such as importing
Word track changes?
 5. Just how important do you consider round-tripping a document,
e.g., going from LyX to Word and back to LyX.
 6. Is there anyone who might be interested in collaborating on this?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob Oakes

Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

Some time ago, I was experimenting with importing documents into LyX
(specifically about how to crack the import MS Word to LyX nut). In the
process, I got really excited about using OpenOffice to convert the word
document to HTML, running tidy on the HTML and then importing that way.
(The original blog article about this can be found at
http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/14/msword-lyx-import.)

Since I'm (re)writing a book chapter about this topic, I thought that I
would look at alternative strategies for importing Word (and other file
formats) into LyX. While doing research, I came across a (potentially)
much better solution.

Somewhat recently (in 2010), a group of Python libraries were written
that handle document conversions. They are part of the epub-tools
library (http://code.google.com/p/epub-tools/). (I've been experimenting
with ePub document creation from LyX, which is how I found them.)

One of the tools in the library is able to parse Microsoft word
documents and convert them to XHTML in preparation for generating an
ePub file. I think that the tool can be adapted for directly converting
Word docs to LyX. Not to LaTeX and then to LyX, but /directly to LyX/.

I'm putting together a library to experiment with direct conversions
(this is ostensibly being done for the never-ending book project, but
will be released as open code), but before getting too deep into
development, I wanted to poll:

 1. Is this a tool that would prove useful to yourselves, your
collaborators, and others?
 2. What features would you consider essential?

(Right now, styles based conversion looks pretty easy -- going from
Heading 1 in Word to Chapter, for example. But I'm not sure how well
it would convert maths. This is something I'll still need to look
at, and may require writing an additional module.)

 3. What is the best tool to look at for guidance in creating a new
script for word2lyx? tex2lyx?
 4. Does the script need to support special cases, such as importing
Word track changes?
 5. Just how important do you consider round-tripping a document,
e.g., going from LyX to Word and back to LyX.
 6. Is there anyone who might be interested in collaborating on this?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob Oakes

Import into LyX

[Rob Oakes]

Dear Users and Developers,

Some time ago, I was experimenting with importing documents into LyX
(specifically about how to crack the import MS Word to LyX nut). In the
process, I got really excited about using OpenOffice to convert the word
document to HTML, running tidy on the HTML and then importing that way.
(The original blog article about this can be found at
http://blog.oak-tree.us/index.php/2010/05/14/msword-lyx-import.)

Since I'm (re)writing a book chapter about this topic, I thought that I
would look at alternative strategies for importing Word (and other file
formats) into LyX. While doing research, I came across a (potentially)
much better solution.

Somewhat recently (in 2010), a group of Python libraries were written
that handle document conversions. They are part of the epub-tools
library (http://code.google.com/p/epub-tools/). (I've been experimenting
with ePub document creation from LyX, which is how I found them.)

One of the tools in the library is able to parse Microsoft word
documents and convert them to XHTML in preparation for generating an
ePub file. I think that the tool can be adapted for directly converting
Word docs to LyX. Not to LaTeX and then to LyX, but /directly to LyX/.

I'm putting together a library to experiment with direct conversions
(this is ostensibly being done for the never-ending book project, but
will be released as open code), but before getting too deep into
development, I wanted to poll:

 1. Is this a tool that would prove useful to yourselves, your
collaborators, and others?
 2. What features would you consider essential?

(Right now, styles based conversion looks pretty easy -- going from
Heading 1 in Word to Chapter, for example. But I'm not sure how well
it would convert maths. This is something I'll still need to look
at, and may require writing an additional module.)

 3. What is the best tool to look at for guidance in creating a new
script for word2lyx? tex2lyx?
 4. Does the script need to support special cases, such as importing
Word "track changes"?
 5. Just how important do you consider "round-tripping" a document,
e.g., going from LyX to Word and back to LyX.
 6. Is there anyone who might be interested in collaborating on this?

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob Oakes

Updated Kindle Tools

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Users,

Given the recent discussion about publishing to the Kindle format, I
thought that this announcement might be of interest to you. Amazon just
recently updated its suite of KindleGen tools to support HTML5 and CSS.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_357613402_1?ie=UTF8docId=1000765211pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=center-3pf_rd_r=0VB74HFFHHNP48JT0NZ3pf_rd_t=1401pf_rd_p=1343256902pf_rd_i=1000729511

The main tool, KindleGen, is both cross platform and command line, which
means that it might be possible to add converters to LyX. One of the
input formats is HTML/XHTML. It would probably be pretty easy to add a
converter for it.

Cheers,

Rob

Updated Kindle Tools

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Users,

Given the recent discussion about publishing to the Kindle format, I
thought that this announcement might be of interest to you. Amazon just
recently updated its suite of KindleGen tools to support HTML5 and CSS.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_357613402_1?ie=UTF8docId=1000765211pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DERpf_rd_s=center-3pf_rd_r=0VB74HFFHHNP48JT0NZ3pf_rd_t=1401pf_rd_p=1343256902pf_rd_i=1000729511

The main tool, KindleGen, is both cross platform and command line, which
means that it might be possible to add converters to LyX. One of the
input formats is HTML/XHTML. It would probably be pretty easy to add a
converter for it.

Cheers,

Rob

Updated Kindle Tools

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Users,

Given the recent discussion about publishing to the Kindle format, I
thought that this announcement might be of interest to you. Amazon just
recently updated its suite of KindleGen tools to support HTML5 and CSS.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_357613402_1?ie=UTF8=1000765211_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER_rd_s=center-3_rd_r=0VB74HFFHHNP48JT0NZ3_rd_t=1401_rd_p=1343256902_rd_i=1000729511

The main tool, KindleGen, is both cross platform and command line, which
means that it might be possible to add converters to LyX. One of the
input formats is HTML/XHTML. It would probably be pretty easy to add a
converter for it.

Cheers,

Rob

HTML Footnotes as Endnotes

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Developers, 

I've continued working on some of the challenges to getting clean ePub from LyX 
and have finished an inset that tentatively allows you to move footnotes to 
endnotes when exporting to HTML. Attached is a patch implementing the change 
(or the logic of it, at least).

I'd appreciate any comments.

Cheers,

Rob Oakes




htmlendnotelist.diff
Description: Binary data

Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

[Rob Oakes]

I for one would like for the topic to remain here. I don't follow the 
discussion on the eLyXer list, but knowing what developments happen with this 
topic are useful for things I'm working on. Especially if whatever Steve and 
Alex create can be adapted to work with the native XHTML modifications I'm 
trying to make.

To move it in a new direction, what tags are most important to Kindle? In what 
ways could the native LyX output be refined (I can create layouts/modules that 
fix these for testing purposes)? Where does the current implementation cause 
problems and for what reasons? (I'm currently looking into the situations 
raised by Steve.)

I've been delving into various ePub resources and I'm cleaning up the HTML 
based on HTML5 best practices, but it would be useful to know where else I can 
focus my attention.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: HTML Footnotes as Endnotes

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

 I wonder if we'd be better just outputting footnotes as endnotes
 all the time. The inline version we now use is cool, but maybe it's too
 cool for it's own good.

I actually think that would be a really good thing. It makes everything much 
easier to work with. (Or at least, that's what I think.)

 Second, I've been thinking recently about introducing some sort of
 chapter splitting capability. Not so important for e-books probably, but
 useful for the good old web.

And very useful for eBooks as well. Due to the way that ePub works, at least, 
smaller HTML files load faster.

 In that case, one would want to be able to output footnotes per chapter.
 There might be other cases where people
 wanted to print endnotes per chapter, even without the splitting. That
 suggests the idea of collecting the footnotes along the way in some
 kind of structure, and then emptying it when it comes time to print
 them, which could then be at any time. Very roughly:
 
 In LaTeXFeatures or some such place:
std::listInsetFoot const * footlist;
 In InsetFoot::xhtml():
op.features.footlist.push_back(this);
 and then in InsetPrintEndnotes::xhtml():
listInsetFoot *  footlist = op.features.footlist;
while (!footlist.empty()) {
InsetFoot const * foot = footlist.front();
footlist.pop_front();
...
// Something like this must be legal
// I think this trick should simplify much of your code...
xs  foot-InsetFootlike::xhtml();

I'll look into implementing this tonight. Having this stuff working for the 
demo I'm doing tomorrow would be great

Cheers,

Rob

HTML Footnotes as Endnotes

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Developers, 

I've continued working on some of the challenges to getting clean ePub from LyX 
and have finished an inset that tentatively allows you to move footnotes to 
endnotes when exporting to HTML. Attached is a patch implementing the change 
(or the logic of it, at least).

I'd appreciate any comments.

Cheers,

Rob Oakes




htmlendnotelist.diff
Description: Binary data

Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

[Rob Oakes]

I for one would like for the topic to remain here. I don't follow the 
discussion on the eLyXer list, but knowing what developments happen with this 
topic are useful for things I'm working on. Especially if whatever Steve and 
Alex create can be adapted to work with the native XHTML modifications I'm 
trying to make.

To move it in a new direction, what tags are most important to Kindle? In what 
ways could the native LyX output be refined (I can create layouts/modules that 
fix these for testing purposes)? Where does the current implementation cause 
problems and for what reasons? (I'm currently looking into the situations 
raised by Steve.)

I've been delving into various ePub resources and I'm cleaning up the HTML 
based on HTML5 best practices, but it would be useful to know where else I can 
focus my attention.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: HTML Footnotes as Endnotes

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

 I wonder if we'd be better just outputting footnotes as endnotes
 all the time. The inline version we now use is cool, but maybe it's too
 cool for it's own good.

I actually think that would be a really good thing. It makes everything much 
easier to work with. (Or at least, that's what I think.)

 Second, I've been thinking recently about introducing some sort of
 chapter splitting capability. Not so important for e-books probably, but
 useful for the good old web.

And very useful for eBooks as well. Due to the way that ePub works, at least, 
smaller HTML files load faster.

 In that case, one would want to be able to output footnotes per chapter.
 There might be other cases where people
 wanted to print endnotes per chapter, even without the splitting. That
 suggests the idea of collecting the footnotes along the way in some
 kind of structure, and then emptying it when it comes time to print
 them, which could then be at any time. Very roughly:
 
 In LaTeXFeatures or some such place:
std::listInsetFoot const * footlist;
 In InsetFoot::xhtml():
op.features.footlist.push_back(this);
 and then in InsetPrintEndnotes::xhtml():
listInsetFoot *  footlist = op.features.footlist;
while (!footlist.empty()) {
InsetFoot const * foot = footlist.front();
footlist.pop_front();
...
// Something like this must be legal
// I think this trick should simplify much of your code...
xs  foot-InsetFootlike::xhtml();

I'll look into implementing this tonight. Having this stuff working for the 
demo I'm doing tomorrow would be great

Cheers,

Rob

HTML Footnotes as Endnotes

[Rob Oakes]

Dear LyX Developers, 

I've continued working on some of the challenges to getting clean ePub from LyX 
and have finished an inset that tentatively allows you to move footnotes to 
endnotes when exporting to HTML. Attached is a patch implementing the change 
(or the logic of it, at least).

I'd appreciate any comments.

Cheers,

Rob Oakes




htmlendnotelist.diff
Description: Binary data

Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

[Rob Oakes]

I for one would like for the topic to remain here. I don't follow the 
discussion on the eLyXer list, but knowing what developments happen with this 
topic are useful for things I'm working on. Especially if whatever Steve and 
Alex create can be adapted to work with the native XHTML modifications I'm 
trying to make.

To move it in a new direction, what tags are most important to Kindle? In what 
ways could the native LyX output be refined (I can create layouts/modules that 
fix these for testing purposes)? Where does the current implementation cause 
problems and for what reasons? (I'm currently looking into the situations 
raised by Steve.)

I've been delving into various ePub resources and I'm cleaning up the HTML 
based on HTML5 best practices, but it would be useful to know where else I can 
focus my attention.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: HTML Footnotes as Endnotes

[Rob Oakes]

Hi Richard,

Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.

On Dec 6, 2011, at 4:39 PM, Richard Heck wrote:

> I wonder if we'd be better just outputting footnotes as endnotes
> all the time. The inline version we now use is cool, but maybe it's too
> cool for it's own good.

I actually think that would be a really good thing. It makes everything much 
easier to work with. (Or at least, that's what I think.)

> Second, I've been thinking recently about introducing some sort of
> chapter splitting capability. Not so important for e-books probably, but
> useful for the good old web.

And very useful for eBooks as well. Due to the way that ePub works, at least, 
smaller HTML files load faster.

> In that case, one would want to be able to output footnotes per chapter.
> There might be other cases where people
> wanted to print endnotes per chapter, even without the splitting. That
> suggests the idea of "collecting" the footnotes along the way in some
> kind of structure, and then emptying it when it comes time to print
> them, which could then be at any time. Very roughly:
> 
> In LaTeXFeatures or some such place:
>std::list footlist;
> In InsetFoot::xhtml():
>op.features.footlist.push_back(this);
> and then in InsetPrintEndnotes::xhtml():
>list & footlist = op.features.footlist;
>while (!footlist.empty()) {
>InsetFoot const * foot = footlist.front();
>footlist.pop_front();
>...
>// Something like this must be legal
>// I think this trick should simplify much of your code...
>xs << foot->InsetFootlike::xhtml();

I'll look into implementing this tonight. Having this stuff working for the 
demo I'm doing tomorrow would be great

Cheers,

Rob

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Rob Oakes]

I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I will 
try and post something about it next week.

Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to find 
something that can spit out just CSS code.

Sent from Rob's Palm

On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:

 On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
 LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
 PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
 iPad, etc).
 
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.
 
 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.
 
 OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
 could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
 outputs eLyXer messages.
 
 
 ...
 I
 
 There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
 the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
 things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
 contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
 might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
 maybe just layout modules.
 
 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format. 
 
 ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
 A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
 provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
 open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
 we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
 download them and must pay for them.
 
 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.
 
 That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
 Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
 only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.
 
 What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
 list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
 an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
 complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
 possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
 the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
 fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
 and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
 the whole thing might be more modular.
 
 
 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
 
 Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?
 
 Thanks Gunter!
 
 SteveT 
 
 Steve Litt
 Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
 http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
 

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Rob Oakes]

I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I will 
try and post something about it next week.

Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to find 
something that can spit out just CSS code.

Sent from Rob's Palm

On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:

 On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
 LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
 PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
 iPad, etc).
 
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.
 
 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.
 
 OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
 could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
 outputs eLyXer messages.
 
 
 ...
 I
 
 There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
 the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
 things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
 contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
 might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
 maybe just layout modules.
 
 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format. 
 
 ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
 A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
 provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
 open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
 we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
 download them and must pay for them.
 
 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.
 
 That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
 Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
 only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.
 
 What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
 list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
 an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
 complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
 possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
 the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
 fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
 and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
 the whole thing might be more modular.
 
 
 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
 
 Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?
 
 Thanks Gunter!
 
 SteveT 
 
 Steve Litt
 Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
 http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
 

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Rob Oakes]

I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I will 
try and post something about it next week.

Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to find 
something that can spit out just CSS code.

Sent from Rob's Palm

On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:

> On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
>> On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
>>> LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
>>> PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
>>> iPad, etc).
>> 
>> The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
>> well.
>> 
>> Any work on "eBook" modules and backands should be compatible with
>> both HTML writers.
> 
> OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
> could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
> outputs eLyXer messages.
> 
>> 
>> ...
>> I
>> 
>>> There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
>>> the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
>>> things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
>>> contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
>>> might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
>>> maybe just layout modules.
>> 
>> IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
>> the open ePub format. 
> 
> ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
> A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
> provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
> open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
> we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
> download them and must pay for them.
> 
>> Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
>> eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
>> ePub document.
> 
> That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
> Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
> only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.
> 
> What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
> list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
> an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
> complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
> possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
> the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
> fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
> and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
> the whole thing might be more modular.
> 
>> 
>> Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
>> need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
>> cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
> 
> Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?
> 
> Thanks Gunter!
> 
> SteveT 
> 
> Steve Litt
> Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
> 

Subfigures in Memoir

[Rob Oakes]

Does anyone know if it is possible to use memoir's subfloat environment
inside of LyX for subfigures and sub-tables? Or if there is a way to
override the loading of the subfig pacakge? There appears to be an
incompatability between subfig and many of the font customization
macros, and I'm not quite sure what the best way to fix it is (short of
preventing the package from loading).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: LyX-Produced Book

[Rob Oakes]

Congratulations on finishing your book. It's beautifully produced and
looks very interesting. While I was looking through it, I found myself
with a couple of craft questions:

Did you write the document class from scratch, or is it based on one of
the larger classes (e.g., Koma-Script, Memoir, Standard Book)?

How did you end up working with the references? Was BibLaTeX somehow
involved?

Cheers,

Rob

Subfigures in Memoir

[Rob Oakes]

Does anyone know if it is possible to use memoir's subfloat environment
inside of LyX for subfigures and sub-tables? Or if there is a way to
override the loading of the subfig pacakge? There appears to be an
incompatability between subfig and many of the font customization
macros, and I'm not quite sure what the best way to fix it is (short of
preventing the package from loading).

Cheers,

Rob

Re: LyX-Produced Book

[Rob Oakes]

Congratulations on finishing your book. It's beautifully produced and
looks very interesting. While I was looking through it, I found myself
with a couple of craft questions:

Did you write the document class from scratch, or is it based on one of
the larger classes (e.g., Koma-Script, Memoir, Standard Book)?

How did you end up working with the references? Was BibLaTeX somehow
involved?

Cheers,

Rob