Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread Alex
Recently, I had the same problem. BibTeX generated wrong characters or
errors, due to bad encoding. It was complaining that it can not
understand \h{o} as a control sequence! Why? I thought it is a general
way to get accented letters.

I have switched in the .bib file from LateX encoding to UTF8 and then to
my local ISO8859-2 encoding. The last switch solved the problem. LyX
file has UTF8 encoding.

I have just read the other e-mails. When I finish with the current,
writing I will also try biber.

Alex


Stefano Franchi írta:
 Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.
 
 I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent 
 fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
 
 As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. 
 Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane solved all 
 the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted 
 correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
 
 I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by 
 bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if 
 there is some magic going on behind the scenes. 
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 S. 
 
 
 
 
 On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
 On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
 Thanks Richard,

 I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
 (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
 the LyX file.
 Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
 of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
 select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
 bibtex and bibtex8, with a custom option as well.

 rh

 Cheers,


 Stefano

 On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
 On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
 Dear all,

 is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
 LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
 it...

 Here is my problem/use-case:

 I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
 contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
 suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
 (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
 accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
 diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance 
 Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.

 Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
 sure the day will come when I will master these  encoding issues.
 Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
 It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.

 First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
 UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
 changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: In contrast
 to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
 use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
 multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
 it only does so by chance. And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
 for some of its work, this won't change even there.

 There's also this project, though:
 http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
 with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
 possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
 work without it. I don't know.

 The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
 encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
 document isn't in UTF-8.

 Richard



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
rgheck wrote:
 Right now, only bibtex 
 and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as 
 a choice, too.

Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly.

Jürgen


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread rgheck

On 10/11/2009 05:11 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

rgheck wrote:
   

Right now, only bibtex
and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as
a choice, too.
 

Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly.

   

Excellent.

rh



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread Alex
Recently, I had the same problem. BibTeX generated wrong characters or
errors, due to bad encoding. It was complaining that it can not
understand \h{o} as a control sequence! Why? I thought it is a general
way to get accented letters.

I have switched in the .bib file from LateX encoding to UTF8 and then to
my local ISO8859-2 encoding. The last switch solved the problem. LyX
file has UTF8 encoding.

I have just read the other e-mails. When I finish with the current,
writing I will also try biber.

Alex


Stefano Franchi írta:
 Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.
 
 I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent 
 fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
 
 As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. 
 Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane solved all 
 the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted 
 correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
 
 I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by 
 bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if 
 there is some magic going on behind the scenes. 
 
 
 Cheers,
 
 S. 
 
 
 
 
 On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
 On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
 Thanks Richard,

 I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
 (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
 the LyX file.
 Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
 of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
 select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
 bibtex and bibtex8, with a custom option as well.

 rh

 Cheers,


 Stefano

 On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
 On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
 Dear all,

 is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
 LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
 it...

 Here is my problem/use-case:

 I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
 contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
 suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
 (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
 accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
 diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance 
 Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.

 Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
 sure the day will come when I will master these  encoding issues.
 Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
 It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.

 First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
 UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
 changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: In contrast
 to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
 use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
 multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
 it only does so by chance. And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
 for some of its work, this won't change even there.

 There's also this project, though:
 http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
 with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
 possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
 work without it. I don't know.

 The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
 encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
 document isn't in UTF-8.

 Richard



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
rgheck wrote:
 Right now, only bibtex 
 and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as 
 a choice, too.

Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly.

Jürgen


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread rgheck

On 10/11/2009 05:11 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

rgheck wrote:
   

Right now, only bibtex
and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as
a choice, too.
 

Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly.

   

Excellent.

rh



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread Alex
Recently, I had the same problem. BibTeX generated wrong characters or
errors, due to bad encoding. It was complaining that it can not
understand \h{o} as a control sequence! Why? I thought it is a general
way to get accented letters.

I have switched in the .bib file from LateX encoding to UTF8 and then to
my local ISO8859-2 encoding. The last switch solved the problem. LyX
file has UTF8 encoding.

I have just read the other e-mails. When I finish with the current,
writing I will also try biber.

Alex


Stefano Franchi írta:
> Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.
> 
> I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent 
> fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
> 
> As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. 
> Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane solved all 
> the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted 
> correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
> 
> I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by 
> bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if 
> there is some magic going on behind the scenes. 
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> S. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
>> On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
>>> Thanks Richard,
>>>
>>> I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
>>> (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
>>> the LyX file.
>> Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
>> of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
>> select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
>> bibtex and bibtex8, with a "custom" option as well.
>>
>> rh
>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>> Stefano
>>>
>>> On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
 On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
> LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
> it...
>
> Here is my problem/use-case:
>
> I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
> contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
> suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
> (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
> accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
> diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance 
> Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.
>
> Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
> sure the day will come when I will master these  encoding issues.
> Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
 It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.

 First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
 UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
 changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: "In contrast
 to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
 use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
 multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
 it only does so by chance." And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
 for some of its work, this won't change even there.

 There's also this project, though:
 http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
 with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
 possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
 work without it. I don't know.

 The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
 encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
 document isn't in UTF-8.

 Richard



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
rgheck wrote:
> Right now, only bibtex 
> and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as 
> a choice, too.

Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly.

Jürgen


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-11 Thread rgheck

On 10/11/2009 05:11 AM, Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote:

rgheck wrote:
   

Right now, only bibtex
and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as
a choice, too.
 

Actually, biber is already listed in 2.0, provided it is installed correctly.

   

Excellent.

rh



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread Stefano Franchi
Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.

I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent 
fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.

As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. 
Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane solved all 
the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted 
correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.

I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by 
bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if 
there is some magic going on behind the scenes. 


Cheers,

S. 




On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
 On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
  Thanks Richard,
 
  I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
  (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
  the LyX file.
 
 Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
 of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
 select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
 bibtex and bibtex8, with a custom option as well.
 
 rh
 
  Cheers,
 
 
  Stefano
 
  On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
  On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
  Dear all,
 
  is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
  LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
  it...
 
  Here is my problem/use-case:
 
  I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
  contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
  suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
  (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
  accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
  diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance 
  Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.
 
  Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
  sure the day will come when I will master these  encoding issues.
  Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
 
  It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.
 
  First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
  UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
  changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: In contrast
  to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
  use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
  multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
  it only does so by chance. And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
  for some of its work, this won't change even there.
 
  There's also this project, though:
  http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
  with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
  possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
  work without it. I don't know.
 
  The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
  encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
  document isn't in UTF-8.
 
  Richard
 
  __
  Stefano Franchi
  Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
  Texas AM University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
  305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
  College Station, TX 77843-4237
 

__
Stefano Franchi
Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
Texas AM University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
College Station, TX 77843-4237


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread rgheck

On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:

Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.

I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent
fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.

As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file.
Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane solved all
the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted
correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.

I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if
there is some magic going on behind the scenes.

   
As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work 
with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems 
arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using 
biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will 
give you a chance of having it work all the time.


rh



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread Stefano Franchi
On Saturday 10 October 2009 11:41:39 am rgheck wrote:
 On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
  Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.
 
  I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time
  spent fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
 
  As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX
  file. Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane
  solved all the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were
  formatted correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
 
  I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
  bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering
  if there is some magic going on behind the scenes.
 
 As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work
 with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems
 arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using
 biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will
 give you a chance of having it work all the time.
 
 rh
 
Thanks Richard,

so I am going to follow your suggestion and switch to biber. 

I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting 
the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is 
it sufficient to specify biber instead of bibtex in the preferences (i.e. 
in ToolspreferencesFile FormatsBibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the 
output in the console, lyx  seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's 
needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the 
developers' side is required.


Cheers,

S.

__
Stefano Franchi
Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
Texas AM University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
College Station, TX 77843-4237


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread rgheck

On 10/10/2009 01:19 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:


I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting
the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is
it sufficient to specify biber instead of bibtex in the preferences (i.e.
in ToolspreferencesFile FormatsBibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the
output in the console, lyx  seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's
needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the
developers' side is required.

   
You should be fine. The work we need to do is relevant only to 1.7, I 
think. There, LyX will present you with choices for your bib processor, 
or allow you to specify it manually, as in 1.6. Right now, only bibtex 
and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as 
a choice, too.


Richard



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread Stefano Franchi
Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.

I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent 
fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.

As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. 
Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane solved all 
the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted 
correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.

I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by 
bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if 
there is some magic going on behind the scenes. 


Cheers,

S. 




On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
 On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
  Thanks Richard,
 
  I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
  (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
  the LyX file.
 
 Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
 of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
 select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
 bibtex and bibtex8, with a custom option as well.
 
 rh
 
  Cheers,
 
 
  Stefano
 
  On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
  On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
  Dear all,
 
  is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
  LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
  it...
 
  Here is my problem/use-case:
 
  I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
  contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
  suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
  (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
  accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
  diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance 
  Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.
 
  Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
  sure the day will come when I will master these  encoding issues.
  Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
 
  It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.
 
  First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
  UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
  changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: In contrast
  to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
  use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
  multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
  it only does so by chance. And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
  for some of its work, this won't change even there.
 
  There's also this project, though:
  http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
  with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
  possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
  work without it. I don't know.
 
  The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
  encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
  document isn't in UTF-8.
 
  Richard
 
  __
  Stefano Franchi
  Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
  Texas AM University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
  305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
  College Station, TX 77843-4237
 

__
Stefano Franchi
Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
Texas AM University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
College Station, TX 77843-4237


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread rgheck

On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:

Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.

I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent
fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.

As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file.
Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane solved all
the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted
correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.

I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if
there is some magic going on behind the scenes.

   
As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work 
with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems 
arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using 
biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will 
give you a chance of having it work all the time.


rh



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread Stefano Franchi
On Saturday 10 October 2009 11:41:39 am rgheck wrote:
 On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
  Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.
 
  I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time
  spent fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
 
  As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX
  file. Switching to Unicode UTF* in the DocumentSettingsLanguage pane
  solved all the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were
  formatted correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
 
  I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
  bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering
  if there is some magic going on behind the scenes.
 
 As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work
 with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems
 arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using
 biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will
 give you a chance of having it work all the time.
 
 rh
 
Thanks Richard,

so I am going to follow your suggestion and switch to biber. 

I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting 
the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is 
it sufficient to specify biber instead of bibtex in the preferences (i.e. 
in ToolspreferencesFile FormatsBibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the 
output in the console, lyx  seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's 
needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the 
developers' side is required.


Cheers,

S.

__
Stefano Franchi
Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
Texas AM University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
College Station, TX 77843-4237


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex-- SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread rgheck

On 10/10/2009 01:19 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:


I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting
the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is
it sufficient to specify biber instead of bibtex in the preferences (i.e.
in ToolspreferencesFile FormatsBibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the
output in the console, lyx  seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's
needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the
developers' side is required.

   
You should be fine. The work we need to do is relevant only to 1.7, I 
think. There, LyX will present you with choices for your bib processor, 
or allow you to specify it manually, as in 1.6. Right now, only bibtex 
and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as 
a choice, too.


Richard



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread Stefano Franchi
Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.

I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent 
fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.

As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file. 
Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane solved all 
the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted 
correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.

I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by 
bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if 
there is some magic going on behind the scenes. 


Cheers,

S. 




On Friday 09 October 2009 07:35:32 am rgheck wrote:
> On 10/09/2009 01:02 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
> > Thanks Richard,
> >
> > I think I understand better now. I suppose I'll have to try out biber
> > (I have switched to BibLatex already) already and check the encoding of
> > the LyX file.
> 
> Let me know how biber goes. If it works well, we'll add it to the list
> of BibTeX options. In 2.0/1.7, or whatever it is going to be, you can
> select which bib-file processor you want to use. At the moment, it's
> bibtex and bibtex8, with a "custom" option as well.
> 
> rh
> 
> > Cheers,
> >
> >
> > Stefano
> >
> > On Thursday 08 October 2009 05:09:42 pm you wrote:
> >> On 10/08/2009 05:55 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> is there any special trick to using a .bib file encoded as UTF-8 with
> >>> LyX/Latex? If there is, I would certainly appreciate knowing about
> >>> it...
> >>>
> >>> Here is my problem/use-case:
> >>>
> >>> I use Jabref as my bib files editor. After inserting a reference which
> >>> contained the character Ž (Latin capital Z with caron), Jabref
> >>> suggested I switched the encoding to UTF-8 because the current one
> >>> (8859-1, I suppose), did not contain the requested character. I
> >>> accepted the kind offer. Alas, now all the references containing
> >>> diacritic marks are screwed up in the Latex output. for instance 
> >>> Schöpfungs- has become Schöpfungs- and so on.
> >>>
> >>> Help or pointers to approriate documentation greatly appreciated. I am
> >>> sure the day will come when I will master these  encoding issues.
> >>> Unfortunately I do not seem to be there yet.
> >>
> >> It sounds like there may be a couple issues here.
> >>
> >> First, unless I'm mistaken, standard BibTeX simply does not support
> >> UTF-8, or any other sort of mutli-byte encoding. Perhaps this has
> >> changed, but Philip Lehman wrote just a year and a bit ago: "In contrast
> >> to what a lot of users think, it is not and has never been possible to
> >> use UTF-8 in bib files. Neither traditional Bibtex nor Bibtex8 support
> >> multibyte encodings such as UTF-8. If it seems to work with some files,
> >> it only does so by chance." And because BibLaTeX also relies upon BibTeX
> >> for some of its work, this won't change even there.
> >>
> >> There's also this project, though:
> >> http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/. Basically, it replaces BibTeX
> >> with a program written in Perl. I haven't tried it, but it should be
> >> possible to use it with LyX if you're also using BibLaTeX. It may even
> >> work without it. I don't know.
> >>
> >> The weirdness with Schöpfungsis probably due to a conflict between the
> >> encoding of your document and the encoding of the .bib file. E.g, the
> >> document isn't in UTF-8.
> >>
> >> Richard
> >
> > __
> > Stefano Franchi
> > Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
> > Texas A University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
> > 305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
> > College Station, TX 77843-4237
> 

__
Stefano Franchi
Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
Texas A University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
College Station, TX 77843-4237


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread rgheck

On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:

Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.

I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time spent
fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.

As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX file.
Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane solved all
the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were formatted
correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.

I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering if
there is some magic going on behind the scenes.

   
As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work 
with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems 
arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using 
biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will 
give you a chance of having it work all the time.


rh



Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread Stefano Franchi
On Saturday 10 October 2009 11:41:39 am rgheck wrote:
> On 10/10/2009 11:38 AM, Stefano Franchi wrote:
> > Problem solved,  but I am even more confused than before.
> >
> > I did install biber and tried it out (after a rather unpleasant time
> > spent fighting with perl dependencies..). The problem remained.
> >
> > As Richard guessed, there was a problem with the encoding of the LyX
> > file. Switching to Unicode UTF* in the Document>>Settings>>Language pane
> > solved all the problems. After the switch to UTF8, the references were
> > formatted correctly, both by standard bibtex and by biber.
> >
> > I am happy but confused. UTF8 (for bib files) should not be supported by
> > bibtex and Lyx (since it just calls bibtex). Yet it works. I am wondering
> > if there is some magic going on behind the scenes.
> 
> As Lehmann said in the post I copied, bibtex will in some cases work
> with UTF files, but only by accident. (My sense it that the problems
> arise with sorting and labels.) So you got lucky with this one. Using
> biber, if it's functional, and ALSO changing the document encoding will
> give you a chance of having it work all the time.
> 
> rh
> 
Thanks Richard,

so I am going to follow your suggestion and switch to biber. 

I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting 
the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is 
it sufficient to specify "biber" instead of "bibtex" in the preferences (i.e. 
in Tools>>preferences>>File Formats>>BibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the 
output in the console, lyx  seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's 
needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the 
developers' side is required.


Cheers,

S.

__
Stefano Franchi
Department of Philosophy  Ph:  (979) 862-2211
Texas A University  Fax: (979) 845-0458
305B Bolton Hall  fran...@philosophy.tamu.edu
College Station, TX 77843-4237


Re: UTF-8, Lyx, and Bibtex--> SOLVED?

2009-10-10 Thread rgheck

On 10/10/2009 01:19 PM, Stefano Franchi wrote:


I have installed it and it works fine from the command line after exporting
the lyx (UTF8-encoded) file to .tex. If I want to use it directly from Lyx, is
it sufficient to specify "biber" instead of "bibtex" in the preferences (i.e.
in Tools>>preferences>>File Formats>>BibTeX)? As far as I can tell from the
output in the console, lyx  seems to be calling biber. Is that all that's
needed? You seemed to imply in a previous message that some work on the
developers' side is required.

   
You should be fine. The work we need to do is relevant only to 1.7, I 
think. There, LyX will present you with choices for your bib processor, 
or allow you to specify it manually, as in 1.6. Right now, only bibtex 
and bibtex8 are listed. But if biber works well, then we can list it as 
a choice, too.


Richard