Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:03:51 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: [unicode characters, bibtex and sorting] Bibtex8 does this specific case right, because the latin1 glyphs have the same code points in unicode. However, bibtex8 will scream and bail out at the first multibyte character

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: I asked about this on the XeTeX mailing list[0] and they think biber[1] should do it right. Sure, but biber is beta software, and it only works with biblatex. Jürgen

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:03:51 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: [unicode characters, bibtex and sorting] Bibtex8 does this specific case right, because the latin1 glyphs have the same code points in unicode. However, bibtex8 will scream and bail out at the first multibyte character

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: I asked about this on the XeTeX mailing list[0] and they think biber[1] should do it right. Sure, but biber is beta software, and it only works with biblatex. Jürgen

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 17:03:51 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: [unicode characters, bibtex and sorting] > Bibtex8 does this specific case right, because the latin1 glyphs have > the same code points in unicode. However, bibtex8 will scream and > bail out at the first multibyte

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: > I asked about this on the XeTeX mailing list[0] and they think biber[1] > should do it right. Sure, but biber is beta software, and it only works with biblatex. Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters in a bibtex file ? This often leads to questions. I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Sure we can (there are helper methods for that). Abdel.

Re: references and coding

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Sure we can (there are helper methods for that). OK. No objections then (if the warning can be toggled, which is only the case in trunk, though). Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters in a bibtex file ? This often leads to questions. I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Sure we can (there are helper methods for that). Abdel.

Re: references and coding

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Sure we can (there are helper methods for that). OK. No objections then (if the warning can be toggled, which is only the case in trunk, though). Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters in a bibtex file ? This often leads to questions. I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Sure we can (there are helper methods for that). Abdel.

Re: references and coding

Abdelrazak Younes wrote: >> I'm not sure we can detect those characters. > > Sure we can (there are helper methods for that). OK. No objections then (if the warning can be toggled, which is only the case in trunk, though). Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: The current LyX version is using utf8, right? Yes, LyX internally uses utf8. Bib files, however, must not be encoded in utf8: http://wiki.lyx.org/BibTeX/Tips#toc1 Jürgen

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:35:35 +0200 Wolfgang Engelmann engelm...@uni-tuebingen.de wrote: I have a reference from a (JabRef created) bib-file which LyX (1.6.2) does not like. The begin of the bib file states that it is encoded in utf8. I can't see anything strange in the reference and in the

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: I'm not sure if BibTeX files are allowed to have non-ASCII characters in normal LaTeX (I'm completely LaTeX incompetent), but I know that with XeTeX, you can have utf8 characters in you BibTeX file. Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on sorting.

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:59:23 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on sorting. Or does XeTeX ship its own bibtex variant? Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of the details. I just know that adding weird swedish special

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on sorting. Or does XeTeX ship its own bibtex variant? Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of the details. I just know that adding weird swedish special characters to my bibtex file just worked in a XeTeX LyX

Re: references and coding

Also sprach Wolfgang Engelmann: Bib files, however, must not be encoded in utf8: http://wiki.lyx.org/BibTeX/Tips#toc1 Jürgen same with biblatex? Yes. Quoting the biblatex manual (sec. 2.4.3): Using UTF-8 encoding in both the tex and the bib file is not possible since neither traditional

Re: references and coding

Am Tuesday 28 April 2009 12:43:32 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller: Having said that, a replacement program for bibtex (written in Perl) with specific target to biblatex is just being developed: http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/ Jürgen good to know. Is it already in a functioning stage?

Re: references and coding

Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: good to know. Is it already in a functioning stage? I haven't tested it yet. Officially, it is in beta stage, but some people apparently already use it for daily work. Jürgen

references and coding

I have a reference from a (JabRef created) bib-file which LyX (1.6.2) does not like. The begin of the bib file states that it is encoded in utf8. I can't see anything strange in the reference and in the bibtex output. How can I check this (and if possible the whole file) for coding errors? The

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:25:49 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: Bibtex can only handle 7-bit correctly. Bibtex8 handles 8-bit. Neither can deal with multibyte characters (although apparently only bibtex8 complains about such files, bibtex just passes it silently [which is bad]).

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:05:48 +0200 Kosta Welke ko...@fillibach.de wrote: Well, I just tried adding some characters that definitely are multi-byte (e.g. ค from the thai alphabet) to a test bibtex file. It worked with XeTeX in the sense that [...] the character was replaced by whitespace (just

RE: references and coding

Bibtex can only handle 7-bit correctly. Bibtex8 handles 8-bit. Neither can deal with multibyte characters (although apparently only bibtex8 complains about such files, bibtex just passes it silently [which is bad]). Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. It seems that BibTeX does not really care what is between the curly braces and just copies the octets. And as utf8 encodes multibyte characters into the

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:24:07 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: Kosta Welke wrote: I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. However, this does not fix the sorting problem. Well if we're happy with 'sort

Re: references and coding

Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters in a bibtex file ? This often leads to questions. I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: Kosta Welke wrote: I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. However, this does not fix the sorting problem. Well if we're happy with 'sort by unicode number', sorting utf8 byte-by-byte

Re: references and coding

Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: The current LyX version is using utf8, right? Yes, LyX internally uses utf8. Bib files, however, must not be encoded in utf8: http://wiki.lyx.org/BibTeX/Tips#toc1 Jürgen

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:35:35 +0200 Wolfgang Engelmann engelm...@uni-tuebingen.de wrote: I have a reference from a (JabRef created) bib-file which LyX (1.6.2) does not like. The begin of the bib file states that it is encoded in utf8. I can't see anything strange in the reference and in the

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: I'm not sure if BibTeX files are allowed to have non-ASCII characters in normal LaTeX (I'm completely LaTeX incompetent), but I know that with XeTeX, you can have utf8 characters in you BibTeX file. Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on sorting.

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:59:23 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on sorting. Or does XeTeX ship its own bibtex variant? Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of the details. I just know that adding weird swedish special

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on sorting. Or does XeTeX ship its own bibtex variant? Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of the details. I just know that adding weird swedish special characters to my bibtex file just worked in a XeTeX LyX

Re: references and coding

Also sprach Wolfgang Engelmann: Bib files, however, must not be encoded in utf8: http://wiki.lyx.org/BibTeX/Tips#toc1 Jürgen same with biblatex? Yes. Quoting the biblatex manual (sec. 2.4.3): Using UTF-8 encoding in both the tex and the bib file is not possible since neither traditional

Re: references and coding

Am Tuesday 28 April 2009 12:43:32 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller: Having said that, a replacement program for bibtex (written in Perl) with specific target to biblatex is just being developed: http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/ Jürgen good to know. Is it already in a functioning stage?

Re: references and coding

Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: good to know. Is it already in a functioning stage? I haven't tested it yet. Officially, it is in beta stage, but some people apparently already use it for daily work. Jürgen

references and coding

I have a reference from a (JabRef created) bib-file which LyX (1.6.2) does not like. The begin of the bib file states that it is encoded in utf8. I can't see anything strange in the reference and in the bibtex output. How can I check this (and if possible the whole file) for coding errors? The

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:25:49 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: Bibtex can only handle 7-bit correctly. Bibtex8 handles 8-bit. Neither can deal with multibyte characters (although apparently only bibtex8 complains about such files, bibtex just passes it silently [which is bad]).

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:05:48 +0200 Kosta Welke ko...@fillibach.de wrote: Well, I just tried adding some characters that definitely are multi-byte (e.g. ค from the thai alphabet) to a test bibtex file. It worked with XeTeX in the sense that [...] the character was replaced by whitespace (just

RE: references and coding

Bibtex can only handle 7-bit correctly. Bibtex8 handles 8-bit. Neither can deal with multibyte characters (although apparently only bibtex8 complains about such files, bibtex just passes it silently [which is bad]). Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. It seems that BibTeX does not really care what is between the curly braces and just copies the octets. And as utf8 encodes multibyte characters into the

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:24:07 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller sp...@lyx.org wrote: Kosta Welke wrote: I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. However, this does not fix the sorting problem. Well if we're happy with 'sort

Re: references and coding

Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters in a bibtex file ? This often leads to questions. I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: Kosta Welke wrote: I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. However, this does not fix the sorting problem. Well if we're happy with 'sort by unicode number', sorting utf8 byte-by-byte

Re: references and coding

Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: > The current LyX version is using utf8, right? Yes, LyX internally uses utf8. Bib files, however, must not be encoded in utf8: http://wiki.lyx.org/BibTeX/Tips#toc1 Jürgen

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:35:35 +0200 Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: > I have a reference from a (JabRef created) bib-file which LyX (1.6.2) > does not like. The begin of the bib file states that it is encoded in > utf8. I can't see anything strange in the reference and in

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: > I'm not sure if BibTeX files are allowed to have non-ASCII characters > in "normal" LaTeX (I'm completely LaTeX incompetent), but I know that > with XeTeX, you can have utf8 characters in you BibTeX file. Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 11:59:23 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on > sorting. Or does XeTeX ship its own bibtex variant? Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of the details. I just know that adding weird swedish special

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: > > Which, however, will make bibtex (the program) fail (at least) on > > sorting. Or does XeTeX ship its own bibtex variant? > > Sorry, I'm completely ignorant of the details. I just know that adding > weird swedish special characters to my bibtex file "just worked" in a >

Re: references and coding

Also sprach Wolfgang Engelmann: > > Bib files, however, must not be encoded in utf8: > > http://wiki.lyx.org/BibTeX/Tips#toc1 > > > > Jürgen > > same with biblatex? Yes. Quoting the biblatex manual (sec. 2.4.3): "Using UTF-8 encoding in both the tex and the bib file is not possible since neither

Re: references and coding

Am Tuesday 28 April 2009 12:43:32 schrieb Jürgen Spitzmüller: > > Having said that, a replacement program for bibtex (written in Perl) with > specific target to biblatex is just being developed: > http://biblatex-biber.sourceforge.net/ > > Jürgen good to know. Is it already in a functioning

Re: references and coding

Wolfgang Engelmann wrote: > good to know. Is it already in a functioning stage? I haven't tested it yet. Officially, it is in beta stage, but some people apparently already use it for daily work. Jürgen

references and coding

I have a reference from a (JabRef created) bib-file which LyX (1.6.2) does not like. The begin of the bib file states that it is encoded in utf8. I can't see anything strange in the reference and in the bibtex output. How can I check this (and if possible the whole file) for coding errors? The

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 12:25:49 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Bibtex can only handle 7-bit correctly. Bibtex8 handles 8-bit. > Neither can deal with multibyte characters (although apparently only > bibtex8 complains about such files, bibtex just passes it silently > [which is

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:05:48 +0200 Kosta Welke wrote: > Well, I just tried adding some characters that definitely are > multi-byte (e.g. ค from the thai alphabet) to a test bibtex file. It > "worked" with XeTeX in the sense that [...] the character was replaced > by

RE: references and coding

>> Bibtex can only handle 7-bit correctly. Bibtex8 handles 8-bit. >> Neither can deal with multibyte characters (although apparently only >> bibtex8 complains about such files, bibtex just passes it silently >> [which is bad]). Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: > I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami > Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. It seems that > BibTeX does not really care what is between the curly braces and just > copies the octets. And as utf8 encodes multibyte characters into the

Re: references and coding

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 16:24:07 +0200 Jürgen Spitzmüller wrote: > Kosta Welke wrote: > > I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami > > Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. > However, this does not fix the sorting problem. Well if we're happy

Re: references and coding

Vincent van Ravesteijn - TNW wrote: > Can't we make LyX giving a warning when it detects multi-byte characters in > a bibtex file ? This often leads to questions. I'm not sure we can detect those characters. Jürgen

Re: references and coding

Kosta Welke wrote: > > Kosta Welke wrote: > > > I just tried adding a chinese character using {\fontspec{Sazanami > > > Mincho}猫} into the BibTeX and it worked flawlessly. > > > > However, this does not fix the sorting problem. > > Well if we're happy with 'sort by unicode number', sorting utf8 >