Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi Rob,

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Rob Oakes lyx-de...@oak-tree.us wrote:
 I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
 rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I 
 will try and post something about it next week.

 Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to 
 find something that can spit out just CSS code.

I don't know of anything similar, I usually hand-tune the CSS. Do you
need anything from eLyXer at the moment? I suggest that you start with
the CSS classes in eLyXer, which are the result of careful tuning:
  http://elyxer.nongnu.org/lyx.css
There is also a separate file math.css which contains just the styles
for the equations:
  http://elyxer.nongnu.org/math.css

Alex.

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi Rob,

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Rob Oakes lyx-de...@oak-tree.us wrote:
 I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
 rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I 
 will try and post something about it next week.

 Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to 
 find something that can spit out just CSS code.

I don't know of anything similar, I usually hand-tune the CSS. Do you
need anything from eLyXer at the moment? I suggest that you start with
the CSS classes in eLyXer, which are the result of careful tuning:
  http://elyxer.nongnu.org/lyx.css
There is also a separate file math.css which contains just the styles
for the equations:
  http://elyxer.nongnu.org/math.css

Alex.

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi Rob,

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 3:34 PM, Rob Oakes  wrote:
> I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
> rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I 
> will try and post something about it next week.
>
> Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to 
> find something that can spit out just CSS code.

I don't know of anything similar, I usually hand-tune the CSS. Do you
need anything from eLyXer at the moment? I suggest that you start with
the CSS classes in eLyXer, which are the result of careful tuning:
  http://elyxer.nongnu.org/lyx.css
There is also a separate file math.css which contains just the styles
for the equations:
  http://elyxer.nongnu.org/math.css

Alex.

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:

 LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT PERFECT 
 PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle, iPad, etc).

The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as well.

Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with both 
HTML writers.

...
 I 

 There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into the 
 LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do things like 
 split out the chapters, split out the table of contents and index, 
 make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It might require a special layout 
 file -- I can create that. Or maybe just layout modules.

IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting the
open ePub format. Generating of kindle (or other proprietary) eBook
formats would then pick up the relevant information from the ePub
document.

Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we need
to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of cross-linked
HTML from Master/Child documents?


Günter

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
  LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
  PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
  iPad, etc).
 
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.
 
 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.

OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
outputs eLyXer messages.

 
 ...
  I
 
  There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
  the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
  things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
  contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
  might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
  maybe just layout modules.
 
 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format. 

ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
download them and must pay for them.

 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.

That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.

What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
the whole thing might be more modular.

 
 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?

Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?

Thanks Gunter!

SteveT 
 
Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Rob Oakes]

I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I will 
try and post something about it next week.

Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to find 
something that can spit out just CSS code.

Sent from Rob's Palm

On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:

 On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
 LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
 PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
 iPad, etc).
 
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.
 
 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.
 
 OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
 could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
 outputs eLyXer messages.
 
 
 ...
 I
 
 There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
 the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
 things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
 contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
 might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
 maybe just layout modules.
 
 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format. 
 
 ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
 A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
 provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
 open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
 we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
 download them and must pay for them.
 
 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.
 
 That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
 Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
 only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.
 
 What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
 list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
 an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
 complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
 possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
 the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
 fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
 and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
 the whole thing might be more modular.
 
 
 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
 
 Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?
 
 Thanks Gunter!
 
 SteveT 
 
 Steve Litt
 Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
 http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
 

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Richard Heck]

On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

 ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
 outputs eLyXer messages.

The format for the internal exporter is LyXHTML. This should be in
your view and export menus.

Richard

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.

 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.

 OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I
 could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it
 outputs eLyXer messages.

eLyXer can be used from within LyX, and indeed it was one of the main
use cases considered. In the meantime LyX developed its own limited
XHTML export.

 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format.

 ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either.
 A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad
 provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of
 open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books
 we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't
 download them and must pay for them.

 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.

 That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and
 Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub,
 only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.

Just let me know what you need from eLyXer which it doesn't currently
output! TOC and Index are already output given the appropriate
options.

 What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people
 list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate
 an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list
 complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or
 possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing
 the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of
 fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer
 and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and
 the whole thing might be more modular.

Yes, that would be fine. Outputting text or binary documents with
formats and indexes is not too hard.

 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?

 Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?

Master/Child documents are too rigid (but eLyXer works fine). eLyXer
has the option --splitpart which can divide a document into chapters,
sections or subsections. I think it is much more interesting for this
task.

Alex.

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 10:30:17 AM Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
  ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer,
  as it outputs eLyXer messages.
 
 The format for the internal exporter is LyXHTML. This should be
 in your view and export menus.
 
 Richard

Found it! As long as I have your attention, how do you tell the export 
what CSS file to use?

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Richard Heck]

On 12/02/2011 01:56 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Friday, December 02, 2011 10:30:17 AM Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer,
 as it outputs eLyXer messages.
 The format for the internal exporter is LyXHTML. This should be
 in your view and export menus.

 Richard
 Found it! As long as I have your attention, how do you tell the export 
 what CSS file to use?

That is all done through layout files. (It's the LyX way.) Much of the
CSS is automatically generated. E.g., if you set up some character style
with boldface text in LyX, then the XHTML output will generate
appropriate CSS:
span.stevestyle {
font-weight: bold;
}
unless told to generate something else. You can customize what is
generated by adding some layout tags to the InsetLayout declaration:
HTMLStyle
span.stevestyle {
font-weight: bold;
background-color: red;
}
EndHTMLStyle
Given the presence of this tag, the default CSS will no longer be
generated (but can be forced via HTMLForceCSS 1.) But, as I said, if
you just want the obvious thing, LyX will generate it for you. I like
this, because everything is in one place, and you often don't have to do
anything special for XHTML output.

This is why Rob said he was working on layouts for ePub generation.

See section 5.4 of the Customization manual for more.

At present, LyX's XHTML output does not have the ability to split by
chapters and such. I think a more flexible method would be to allow
separate output of child documents. (Right now, LyX just outputs them as
part of the main document.) Then you divide it up how you like. This
shouldn't be too hard. I just haven't had time to do it. Too many other,
more pressing bugs to fix right at the moment.

Richard

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:

 LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT PERFECT 
 PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle, iPad, etc).

The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as well.

Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with both 
HTML writers.

...
 I 

 There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into the 
 LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do things like 
 split out the chapters, split out the table of contents and index, 
 make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It might require a special layout 
 file -- I can create that. Or maybe just layout modules.

IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting the
open ePub format. Generating of kindle (or other proprietary) eBook
formats would then pick up the relevant information from the ePub
document.

Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we need
to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of cross-linked
HTML from Master/Child documents?


Günter

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
  LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
  PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
  iPad, etc).
 
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.
 
 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.

OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
outputs eLyXer messages.

 
 ...
  I
 
  There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
  the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
  things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
  contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
  might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
  maybe just layout modules.
 
 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format. 

ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
download them and must pay for them.

 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.

That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.

What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
the whole thing might be more modular.

 
 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?

Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?

Thanks Gunter!

SteveT 
 
Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Rob Oakes]

I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I will 
try and post something about it next week.

Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to find 
something that can spit out just CSS code.

Sent from Rob's Palm

On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:

 On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
 LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
 PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
 iPad, etc).
 
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.
 
 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.
 
 OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
 could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
 outputs eLyXer messages.
 
 
 ...
 I
 
 There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
 the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
 things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
 contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
 might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
 maybe just layout modules.
 
 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format. 
 
 ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
 A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
 provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
 open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
 we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
 download them and must pay for them.
 
 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.
 
 That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
 Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
 only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.
 
 What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
 list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
 an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
 complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
 possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
 the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
 fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
 and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
 the whole thing might be more modular.
 
 
 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
 
 Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?
 
 Thanks Gunter!
 
 SteveT 
 
 Steve Litt
 Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
 http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
 

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Richard Heck]

On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:

 ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
 outputs eLyXer messages.

The format for the internal exporter is LyXHTML. This should be in
your view and export menus.

Richard

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
 The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
 well.

 Any work on eBook modules and backands should be compatible with
 both HTML writers.

 OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I
 could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it
 outputs eLyXer messages.

eLyXer can be used from within LyX, and indeed it was one of the main
use cases considered. In the meantime LyX developed its own limited
XHTML export.

 IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
 the open ePub format.

 ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either.
 A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad
 provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of
 open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books
 we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't
 download them and must pay for them.

 Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
 eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
 ePub document.

 That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and
 Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub,
 only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.

Just let me know what you need from eLyXer which it doesn't currently
output! TOC and Index are already output given the appropriate
options.

 What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people
 list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate
 an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list
 complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or
 possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing
 the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of
 fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer
 and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and
 the whole thing might be more modular.

Yes, that would be fine. Outputting text or binary documents with
formats and indexes is not too hard.

 Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
 need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
 cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?

 Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?

Master/Child documents are too rigid (but eLyXer works fine). eLyXer
has the option --splitpart which can divide a document into chapters,
sections or subsections. I think it is much more interesting for this
task.

Alex.

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 10:30:17 AM Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
  ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer,
  as it outputs eLyXer messages.
 
 The format for the internal exporter is LyXHTML. This should be
 in your view and export menus.
 
 Richard

Found it! As long as I have your attention, how do you tell the export 
what CSS file to use?

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Richard Heck]

On 12/02/2011 01:56 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Friday, December 02, 2011 10:30:17 AM Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer,
 as it outputs eLyXer messages.
 The format for the internal exporter is LyXHTML. This should be
 in your view and export menus.

 Richard
 Found it! As long as I have your attention, how do you tell the export 
 what CSS file to use?

That is all done through layout files. (It's the LyX way.) Much of the
CSS is automatically generated. E.g., if you set up some character style
with boldface text in LyX, then the XHTML output will generate
appropriate CSS:
span.stevestyle {
font-weight: bold;
}
unless told to generate something else. You can customize what is
generated by adding some layout tags to the InsetLayout declaration:
HTMLStyle
span.stevestyle {
font-weight: bold;
background-color: red;
}
EndHTMLStyle
Given the presence of this tag, the default CSS will no longer be
generated (but can be forced via HTMLForceCSS 1.) But, as I said, if
you just want the obvious thing, LyX will generate it for you. I like
this, because everything is in one place, and you often don't have to do
anything special for XHTML output.

This is why Rob said he was working on layouts for ePub generation.

See section 5.4 of the Customization manual for more.

At present, LyX's XHTML output does not have the ability to split by
chapters and such. I think a more flexible method would be to allow
separate output of child documents. (Right now, LyX just outputs them as
part of the main document.) Then you divide it up how you like. This
shouldn't be too hard. I just haven't had time to do it. Too many other,
more pressing bugs to fix right at the moment.

Richard

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:

> LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT PERFECT 
> PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle, iPad, etc).

The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as well.

Any work on "eBook" modules and backands should be compatible with both 
HTML writers.

...
 I 

> There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into the 
> LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do things like 
> split out the chapters, split out the table of contents and index, 
> make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It might require a special layout 
> file -- I can create that. Or maybe just layout modules.

IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting the
open ePub format. Generating of kindle (or other proprietary) eBook
formats would then pick up the relevant information from the ePub
document.

Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we need
to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of cross-linked
HTML from Master/Child documents?


Günter

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
> On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
> > LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
> > PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
> > iPad, etc).
> 
> The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
> well.
> 
> Any work on "eBook" modules and backands should be compatible with
> both HTML writers.

OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
outputs eLyXer messages.

> 
> ...
>  I
> 
> > There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
> > the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
> > things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
> > contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
> > might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
> > maybe just layout modules.
> 
> IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
> the open ePub format. 

ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
download them and must pay for them.

> Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
> eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
> ePub document.

That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.

What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
the whole thing might be more modular.

> 
> Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
> need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
> cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?

Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?

Thanks Gunter!

SteveT 
 
Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Rob Oakes]

I am working on an ePub compatible module right now (document class at any 
rate). It's for a talk I'm giving at a publishing conference next week. I will 
try and post something about it next week.

Does anyone know of a visual CSS editor that is open source? I'm trying to find 
something that can spit out just CSS code.

Sent from Rob's Palm

On Dec 2, 2011, at 3:12 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:

> On Friday, December 02, 2011 04:13:53 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
>> On 2011-12-02, Steve Litt wrote:
>>> LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT
>>> PERFECT PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle,
>>> iPad, etc).
>> 
>> The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
>> well.
>> 
>> Any work on "eBook" modules and backands should be compatible with
>> both HTML writers.
> 
> OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I 
> could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
> outputs eLyXer messages.
> 
>> 
>> ...
>> I
>> 
>>> There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into
>>> the LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do
>>> things like split out the chapters, split out the table of
>>> contents and index, make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It
>>> might require a special layout file -- I can create that. Or
>>> maybe just layout modules.
>> 
>> IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
>> the open ePub format. 
> 
> ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either. 
> A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad 
> provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of 
> open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books 
> we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't 
> download them and must pay for them.
> 
>> Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
>> eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
>> ePub document.
> 
> That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and 
> Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub, 
> only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.
> 
> What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people 
> list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate 
> an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list 
> complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or 
> possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing 
> the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of 
> fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer 
> and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and 
> the whole thing might be more modular.
> 
>> 
>> Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
>> need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
>> cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
> 
> Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?
> 
> Thanks Gunter!
> 
> SteveT 
> 
> Steve Litt
> Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt
> 

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Richard Heck]

On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>
> ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it 
> outputs eLyXer messages.
>
The format for the internal exporter is "LyXHTML". This should be in
your view and export menus.

Richard

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Alex Fernandez]

Hi,

On Fri, Dec 2, 2011 at 11:12 AM, Steve Litt  wrote:
>> The internal HTML output should be usable for eBook creation as
>> well.
>>
>> Any work on "eBook" modules and backands should be compatible with
>> both HTML writers.
>
> OK. I'll make sure any work I do is compatible with both, although I
> could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer, as it
> outputs eLyXer messages.

eLyXer can be used from within LyX, and indeed it was one of the main
use cases considered. In the meantime LyX developed its own limited
XHTML export.

>> IMO, LyX (as open source software) should concentrate on supporting
>> the open ePub format.
>
> ePub shouldn't be neglected, but it shouldn't be concentrated either.
> A well employed list is a happy and productive list, and Kindle/iPad
> provides a revenue stream for authors (most of whom do quite a bit of
> open contributions). For example, many of the LyX derived print books
> we discussed in this afternoon's thread are proprietary -- you can't
> download them and must pay for them.
>
>> Generating of kindle (or other proprietary)
>> eBook formats would then pick up the relevant information from the
>> ePub document.
>
> That sounds good on the surface, but my experience with ePub and
> Kindle tells me it's a detour where you'd get complex with the ePub,
> only to unwind the ePub back into simple HTML to be used by kindlegen.

Just let me know what you need from eLyXer which it doesn't currently
output! TOC and Index are already output given the appropriate
options.

> What would be excellent is for some loosely formed group of people
> list all the data needed to generate a Kindle, necessary to generate
> an iPad book, a Nook book, and an open ePub. If we can get that list
> complete, then we have a list of what needs to go in the LyX file or
> possibly a companion file. Once we have those specifications, writing
> the actual converters would be a secretarial task. As a matter of
> fact, if the additional data was put in a companion file, then eLyXer
> and the internal converter wouldn't have to change all that much, and
> the whole thing might be more modular.

Yes, that would be fine. Outputting text or binary documents with
formats and indexes is not too hard.

>> Splitting a document into several HTML files is non-trivial, as we
>> need to consider the cross-links. Maybe we can support a set of
>> cross-linked HTML from Master/Child documents?
>
> Alex -- how does eLyXer work with Master/Child documents?

Master/Child documents are too rigid (but eLyXer works fine). eLyXer
has the option --splitpart which can divide a document into chapters,
sections or subsections. I think it is much more interesting for this
task.

Alex.

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

On Friday, December 02, 2011 10:30:17 AM Richard Heck wrote:
> On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer,
> > as it outputs eLyXer messages.
> 
> The format for the internal exporter is "LyXHTML". This should be
> in your view and export menus.
> 
> Richard

Found it! As long as I have your attention, how do you tell the export 
what CSS file to use?

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

Re: LyX and Kindle books

[Richard Heck]

On 12/02/2011 01:56 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Friday, December 02, 2011 10:30:17 AM Richard Heck wrote:
>> On 12/02/2011 05:12 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>> ...I could swear LyX's internal HTML exporter is simply eLyXer,
>>> as it outputs eLyXer messages.
>> The format for the internal exporter is "LyXHTML". This should be
>> in your view and export menus.
>>
>> Richard
> Found it! As long as I have your attention, how do you tell the export 
> what CSS file to use?
>
That is all done through layout files. (It's the LyX way.) Much of the
CSS is automatically generated. E.g., if you set up some character style
with boldface text in LyX, then the XHTML output will generate
appropriate CSS:
span.stevestyle {
font-weight: bold;
}
unless told to generate something else. You can customize what is
generated by adding some layout tags to the InsetLayout declaration:
HTMLStyle
span.stevestyle {
font-weight: bold;
background-color: red;
}
EndHTMLStyle
Given the presence of this tag, the default CSS will no longer be
generated (but can be forced via "HTMLForceCSS 1".) But, as I said, if
you just want the obvious thing, LyX will generate it for you. I like
this, because everything is in one place, and you often don't have to do
anything special for XHTML output.

This is why Rob said he was working on layouts for ePub generation.

See section 5.4 of the Customization manual for more.

At present, LyX's XHTML output does not have the ability to split by
chapters and such. I think a more flexible method would be to allow
separate output of child documents. (Right now, LyX just outputs them as
part of the main document.) Then you divide it up how you like. This
shouldn't be too hard. I just haven't had time to do it. Too many other,
more pressing bugs to fix right at the moment.

Richard

LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

Alex Fernandez, you have your work cut out for you!

Before telling you way, let me just say you did a real good deed 
creating eLyXer. You made styles-based HTML authoring, and therefore 
eBook authoring, much easier. And I notices when I use LyX's own HTML 
converter, I get eLyXer messages :-)

But to those whom much has been given, much is expected, so you're not 
done yet.

LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT PERFECT 
PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle, iPad, etc). I 
just tested my soon to be released Kindle book, Rules of the 
Happiness Highway, on Kindle's Kindle Previewer, and it worked 
perfectly except for the features I didn't put in (TOC, Index, 
chapters, frontmatter -- it's a short book). The book was authored in 
LyX and converted with eLyXer and Kindlized with Kindlegen.

There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into the 
LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do things like 
split out the chapters, split out the table of contents and index, 
make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It might require a special layout 
file -- I can create that. Or maybe just layout modules.

I'm sure Rob Oakes and I can provide plenty of info for what is needed 
to create a Kindle book, and lots of feedback and testing. I might be 
able to write some of the code.

LyX is the fastest and most enjoyable authoring environment. With a 
few additions to eLyXer, that fastest and most enjoyable authoring 
environment can be used to write flowing-text eBooks.

Alex, you've got your work cut out for you. I'll try to help.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

Alex Fernandez, you have your work cut out for you!

Before telling you way, let me just say you did a real good deed 
creating eLyXer. You made styles-based HTML authoring, and therefore 
eBook authoring, much easier. And I notices when I use LyX's own HTML 
converter, I get eLyXer messages :-)

But to those whom much has been given, much is expected, so you're not 
done yet.

LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT PERFECT 
PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle, iPad, etc). I 
just tested my soon to be released Kindle book, Rules of the 
Happiness Highway, on Kindle's Kindle Previewer, and it worked 
perfectly except for the features I didn't put in (TOC, Index, 
chapters, frontmatter -- it's a short book). The book was authored in 
LyX and converted with eLyXer and Kindlized with Kindlegen.

There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into the 
LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do things like 
split out the chapters, split out the table of contents and index, 
make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It might require a special layout 
file -- I can create that. Or maybe just layout modules.

I'm sure Rob Oakes and I can provide plenty of info for what is needed 
to create a Kindle book, and lots of feedback and testing. I might be 
able to write some of the code.

LyX is the fastest and most enjoyable authoring environment. With a 
few additions to eLyXer, that fastest and most enjoyable authoring 
environment can be used to write flowing-text eBooks.

Alex, you've got your work cut out for you. I'll try to help.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt

LyX and Kindle books

[Steve Litt]

Alex Fernandez, you have your work cut out for you!

Before telling you way, let me just say you did a real good deed 
creating eLyXer. You made styles-based HTML authoring, and therefore 
eBook authoring, much easier. And I notices when I use LyX's own HTML 
converter, I get eLyXer messages :-)

But to those whom much has been given, much is expected, so you're not 
done yet.

LyX plus eLyXer plus a few other tools can make the PERFECT PERFECT 
PERFECT authoring tool for flowable text eBooks (Kindle, iPad, etc). I 
just tested my soon to be released Kindle book, "Rules of the 
Happiness Highway", on Kindle's Kindle Previewer, and it worked 
perfectly except for the features I didn't put in (TOC, Index, 
chapters, frontmatter -- it's a short book). The book was authored in 
LyX and converted with eLyXer and Kindlized with Kindlegen.

There needs to be a way to insert all info needed by Kindle into the 
LyX file, and having eLyXer or other similar executables do things like 
split out the chapters, split out the table of contents and index, 
make the .opf file and the .ncx file. It might require a special layout 
file -- I can create that. Or maybe just layout modules.

I'm sure Rob Oakes and I can provide plenty of info for what is needed 
to create a Kindle book, and lots of feedback and testing. I might be 
able to write some of the code.

LyX is the fastest and most enjoyable authoring environment. With a 
few additions to eLyXer, that fastest and most enjoyable authoring 
environment can be used to write flowing-text eBooks.

Alex, you've got your work cut out for you. I'll try to help.

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt