Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-04-18, Vincent van Ravesteijn wrote:
> On 18-1-2011 11:17, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:

> I'm also not sure I understand your problem. Usually, if your file is
> changed, you can use File->Revert to Saved. This should give you the
> new version of the file.

I remember, that when I did a change to the open file (or LyX thinks I
did so), I cannot "revert to saved" unless I save -- overwriting the
changes on disk!

Günter

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Julien Rioux]

On 18/04/2011 11:25 AM, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:

Where do you report the bug? I thought the feature just was non existing.


The specific feature you are requesting (notify that the LyX file has 
changed on disk) is not implemented yet, that's true. If you follow the 
thread, I was replying to a specific message (which I quoted) by Mr 
Rainer Krug about external files such as graphics files.


If you want to report bugs or feature request you can discuss them on 
this list and/or you can enter them on the bug tracker:


http://www.lyx.org/trac/wiki/BugTrackerHome

If you do enter a feature request on the bug tracker it is a good idea 
to include a link to the current mailing list discussion for continuity.


Cheers,
Julien

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

Julien Rioux  physics.utoronto.ca> writes:

> Current versions of LyX already update the graphics (both in LyX's 
> display and when you compile) when graphics are edited externally. 
> Changes to (most, if not all) other files are also noticed. If that is 
> not the case please report it as bug.
> 


Where do you report the bug? I thought the feature just was non existing. 

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Julien Rioux]

On 18/04/2011 10:57 AM, Rainer M Krug wrote:

But what if a figure file is changing? or a child document? That should
be included in the message box as well, otherwise this approach would be
a little dangerous, as it would not show all changes which can happen to
a lyx document.


Current versions of LyX already update the graphics (both in LyX's 
display and when you compile) when graphics are edited externally. 
Changes to (most, if not all) other files are also noticed. If that is 
not the case please report it as bug.


--
Julien

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

2011/4/18 Rainer M Krug 

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 18/04/11 16:52, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> > Exactly! A message box that is indicating change on the file I am
> > currently editing would resolve my problem just perfect.
>
> But what if a figure file is changing? or a child document? That should
> be included in the message box as well, otherwise this approach would be
> a little dangerous, as it would not show all changes which can happen to
> a lyx document.
>
> Rainer
>
> Agreed. It has been bothering me that I open up a lyx document from within
LyX (not opening a new windows, just new tab), and its not the latest copy
of the file. Serious mistakes could be made. But I wouldn't need anything
notifying me about change in graphics, since they are always the latest
version when compiling.

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Rainer M Krug]

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On 18/04/11 16:52, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> Exactly! A message box that is indicating change on the file I am
> currently editing would resolve my problem just perfect.

But what if a figure file is changing? or a child document? That should
be included in the message box as well, otherwise this approach would be
a little dangerous, as it would not show all changes which can happen to
a lyx document.

Rainer

> 
> 2011/4/18 Vincent van Ravesteijn mailto:v...@lyx.org>>
> 
> On 18-1-2011 11:17, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> > I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and
> the problem is that when you have opened a file, another user edits
> it and sync it through
> > dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy
> or something.
> >
> > We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated
> document, or else you just get the copy that is stored in memory...
> Tried removing auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.
> >
> > Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?
> >
> 
> I'm also not sure I understand your problem. Usually, if your file
> is changed, you can use File->Revert to Saved. This should give you
> the new version of the file.
> 
> I've been working on a mechanism that pops up a messagebox
> indicating that the file you're editing has been changed on disk.
> 
> I'm not familiar with Dropbox, so I don't know whether it will help
> you out in that case.
> 
> >
> > - christian wilhelmsen
> 
> 
> Vincent
> 
> 


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

2011/4/18 Stephan Witt 

> Am 18.04.2011 um 16:37 schrieb Christian Wilhelmsen:
>
> > Stephan Witt  gmx.net> writes:
> >
> >> Hmm... what are you asking for?
> >> The text portion you've cited above refers to version control systems.
> >> I think Dropbox is not a version control systems. It's more like a
> >> distributed file system. Or am I missing something?
> >>
> >> Stephan
> >>
> >
> > Feeling stupid, but the cite was even dumber. I was so suppose to cite
> "...
> > warns you if a merge is needed etc". I only want to use Dropbox
>
> I see.
>
> No, there is no work on that.
>
> Again, did you try to use "Revert to saved..."?
>
> I understand, you have to know somehow that the LyX file was changed.
> Nevertheless I'm curious if "Revert to saved" works for you when Dropbox
> has updated the file behind your back.
>
> Stephan
>

Revert to save works just perfect when using Dropbox.  As Vincent said, he
is working on it :D

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

Exactly! A message box that is indicating change on the file I am currently
editing would resolve my problem just perfect.

2011/4/18 Vincent van Ravesteijn 

> On 18-1-2011 11:17, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> > I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the
> problem is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync
> it through
> > dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or
> something.
> >
> > We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or
> else you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing
> auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.
> >
> > Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?
> >
>
> I'm also not sure I understand your problem. Usually, if your file is
> changed, you can use File->Revert to Saved. This should give you the new
> version of the file.
>
> I've been working on a mechanism that pops up a messagebox indicating that
> the file you're editing has been changed on disk.
>
> I'm not familiar with Dropbox, so I don't know whether it will help you out
> in that case.
>
> >
> > - christian wilhelmsen
>
>
> Vincent
>

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Stephan Witt]

Am 18.04.2011 um 16:37 schrieb Christian Wilhelmsen:

> Stephan Witt  gmx.net> writes:
> 
>> Hmm... what are you asking for?
>> The text portion you've cited above refers to version control systems.
>> I think Dropbox is not a version control systems. It's more like a
>> distributed file system. Or am I missing something?
>> 
>> Stephan
>> 
> 
> Feeling stupid, but the cite was even dumber. I was so suppose to cite "...
> warns you if a merge is needed etc". I only want to use Dropbox

I see.

No, there is no work on that.

Again, did you try to use "Revert to saved..."?

I understand, you have to know somehow that the LyX file was changed.
Nevertheless I'm curious if "Revert to saved" works for you when Dropbox
has updated the file behind your back.

Stephan

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Vincent van Ravesteijn]

On 18-1-2011 11:17, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the problem 
> is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync it through
> dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or something.
> 
> We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or else 
> you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing auto-backup, 
> if that was the problem, but no.
> 
> Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?
> 

I'm also not sure I understand your problem. Usually, if your file is changed, 
you can use File->Revert to Saved. This should give you the new version of the 
file.

I've been working on a mechanism that pops up a messagebox indicating that the 
file you're editing has been changed on disk.

I'm not familiar with Dropbox, so I don't know whether it will help you out in 
that case.

> 
> - christian wilhelmsen


Vincent

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

I get what you are saying, but I only want it to notify me about the file I
am working on in LyX at the moment. So, it is actually a function I would
want the LyX team to implement. But thank you very much for your suggestion.


2011/4/18 Rainer M Krug 

> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 18/04/11 16:26, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> > Because I only want it for the file that I am editing at that exact
> moment.
>
> Assuming you use Windows:
>
> What about using something like
>
> http://www.xstarter.com/help/monitor-files.html
>
> Where you can specify the directory and a file mask to monitor the file?
> If it changes, let it play a sound or give a message box.
>
> You don't have to monitor all files on your HDD...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Rainer
>
> >
> > 2011/4/18 Rainer M Krug mailto:r.m.k...@gmail.com>>
> >
> > On 18/04/11 15:40, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> >> Stephan Witt  gmx.net > writes:
> >
> >>> ... warns you if a merge is needed etc. See the LyX docs.
> >>> Of course you need a SVN repository somewhere with access for all
> > co-workers...
> >>>
> >>> Stephan
> >>>
> >
> >> Exactly, but I need LyX to warn me that a newer version of my file
> > has just been
> >> added to my DropBox folder. Is there any work on that?
> >
> > Why not using an external tool, which notifies you if a file has changed
> > on disk? There should be some around?
> >
> > Rainer
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> - Christian
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> - --
> Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
> Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)
>
> Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
> Stellenbosch University
> South Africa
>
> Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
> Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
> Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44
>
> Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44
>
> email:  rai...@krugs.de
>
> Skype:  RMkrug
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/
>
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> pXwAnAwy/4W7S4WiU3RI1lP3YGG0
> =xREh
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
>

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 18/04/11 16:28, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> 
> Because I only want it for the file that I am editing at that exact moment.
> 
> 

Assuming you use Windows:

What about using something like

http://www.xstarter.com/help/monitor-files.html

Where you can specify the directory and a file mask to monitor the file?
If it changes, let it play a sound or give a message box.

You don't have to monitor all files on your HDD...

Cheers,

Rainer


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

Stephan Witt  gmx.net> writes:

> Hmm... what are you asking for?
> The text portion you've cited above refers to version control systems.
> I think Dropbox is not a version control systems. It's more like a
> distributed file system. Or am I missing something?
> 
> Stephan
> 

Feeling stupid, but the cite was even dumber. I was so suppose to cite "...
warns you if a merge is needed etc". I only want to use Dropbox

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Stephan Witt]

Am 18.04.2011 um 15:40 schrieb Christian Wilhelmsen:

> Stephan Witt  gmx.net> writes:
> 
>> ... warns you if a merge is needed etc. See the LyX docs.
>> Of course you need a SVN repository somewhere with access for all 
>> co-workers...
>> 
>> Stephan
>> 
> 
> Exactly, but I need LyX to warn me that a newer version of my file has just 
> been
> added to my DropBox folder. Is there any work on that? 

Hmm... what are you asking for?
The text portion you've cited above refers to version control systems.
I think Dropbox is not a version control systems. It's more like a
distributed file system. Or am I missing something?

Stephan

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

Because I only want it for the file that I am editing at that exact moment.

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Rainer M Krug]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On 18/04/11 15:40, Christian Wilhelmsen wrote:
> Stephan Witt  gmx.net> writes:
>  
>> ... warns you if a merge is needed etc. See the LyX docs.
>> Of course you need a SVN repository somewhere with access for all 
>> co-workers...
>>
>> Stephan
>>
> 
> Exactly, but I need LyX to warn me that a newer version of my file has just 
> been
> added to my DropBox folder. Is there any work on that? 

Why not using an external tool, which notifies you if a file has changed
on disk? There should be some around?

Rainer



> 
> 
> - Christian
> 
> 


- -- 
Rainer M. Krug, PhD (Conservation Ecology, SUN), MSc (Conservation
Biology, UCT), Dipl. Phys. (Germany)

Centre of Excellence for Invasion Biology
Stellenbosch University
South Africa

Tel :   +33 - (0)9 53 10 27 44
Cell:   +33 - (0)6 85 62 59 98
Fax :   +33 - (0)9 58 10 27 44

Fax (D):+49 - (0)3 21 21 25 22 44

email:  rai...@krugs.de

Skype:  RMkrug
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Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

Stephan Witt  gmx.net> writes:
 
>... warns you if a merge is needed etc. See the LyX docs.
> Of course you need a SVN repository somewhere with access for all 
> co-workers...
> 
> Stephan
> 

Exactly, but I need LyX to warn me that a newer version of my file has just been
added to my DropBox folder. Is there any work on that? 


- Christian

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Stephan Witt]

Am 04.02.2011 um 08:17 schrieb Manveru:

> 2011/1/18 Christian Wilhelmsen :
>> I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the problem
>> is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync it
>> through
>> dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or
>> something.
>> 
>> We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or else
>> you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing
>> auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.
>> 
>> Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?
> 
> I think your problem lies in Dropbox itself and the file locking
> mechanics (I understand you are working on Windows). Dropbox cannot
> update (write to) file currently open by any application for reading,
> Windows permission system does not allow that. I do not know whether
> LyX keep file opened or locked anyhow (should for NFS purpose),
> however while Dropbox > 1.0 is able to read and sync files to the
> server (it do that with my opened Excel sheets) it is not able to
> write anything while file is opened.

You are wild guessing? AFAICS, LyX doesn't lock the files and - 
at least on Unix (Linux and Mac) - it doesn't keep the original
file open. I never tested this on windows. You may try to copy 
an elder version of a file over the original while LyX has the
document on screen to try it out.

> When you close the LyX all locks are removed, Dropbox quickly updates
> your file from the server, then when you reopen LyX you see new
> version.

Did you try to use "Revert to saved..."? If you don't edit the file
and no change to the file happened externally this menu item is
disabled. If one of these conditions is true - you can reload the
original from disk with "Revert to saved...".

> I think LyX should operate at Dropbox API level to handle
> properly that case you expect.

I don't think that this is needed - and cannot imagine it should happen.

> I think it won't happen fast if at all.
> Forst it need good "merge" feature - I do not know if is finished or
> not.

If merge features are needed - I'd suggest to use a real revision control
system like SVN. It's designed for collaboration. LyX is able to handle
locking with SVN, warns you if a merge is needed etc. See the LyX docs.
Of course you need a SVN repository somewhere with access for all co-workers...

Stephan

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Manveru]

2011/1/18 Christian Wilhelmsen :
> I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the problem
> is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync it
> through
> dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or
> something.
>
> We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or else
> you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing
> auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.
>
> Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?

I think your problem lies in Dropbox itself and the file locking
mechanics (I understand you are working on Windows). Dropbox cannot
update (write to) file currently open by any application for reading,
Windows permission system does not allow that. I do not know whether
LyX keep file opened or locked anyhow (should for NFS purpose),
however while Dropbox > 1.0 is able to read and sync files to the
server (it do that with my opened Excel sheets) it is not able to
write anything while file is opened.

When you close the LyX all locks are removed, Dropbox quickly updates
your file from the server, then when you reopen LyX you see new
version. I think LyX should operate at Dropbox API level to handle
properly that case you expect. I think it won't happen fast if at all.
Forst it need good "merge" feature - I do not know if is finished or
not.

-- 
Manveru
jabber: manv...@manveru.pl
     gg: 1624001
   http://www.manveru.pl

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Guenter Milde]

On 2011-01-18, Stephan Witt wrote:
> Am 18.01.2011 um 11:17 schrieb Christian Wilhelmsen:

>> We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or
>> else you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing
>> auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.

...

> With your use case I would ask for a buffer (file) reload menu item.

There is one already. (Mis)named "File>Revert to Saved" (and greyed
out if there is no change to the open document).

So, to update to the file version,

* make sure there are no valuable changes in the open document.

* do a "dummy change".

* Go to File>Revert to Saved

* A warning pops up, saying "All changes will be lost ..."

  Think twice but be brave: actually only changes to the buffered
  document will be lost, while changes to the saved version would be
  overwritten if you saved your "dummy change".
  
  Select [Revert] (again misnamded in this case, should be [Update])
  and press Enter.
  

There is a very old bugreport about this issue already, maybe closed as
wontfix or rejected.

Günter  

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Pavel Sanda]

Stephan Witt wrote:
> With your use case I would ask for a buffer (file) reload menu item.

this request was evaluated as wontfix, somewhere in bugzilla.

> But indeed currently LyX doesn't check for changes of the file on disk 
> behind it's back on file open. This one I'd rate as a bug.
> Please, enter this into LyX's bug tracker at http://www.lyx.org/trac.

also should be somewhere in bugz. i was not happy about automatical
timer trigger for each 30s.

pavel

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Stephan Witt]

Am 18.01.2011 um 12:08 schrieb Stephan Witt:

> Am 18.01.2011 um 11:17 schrieb Christian Wilhelmsen:
> 
>> I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the problem 
>> is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync it 
>> through
>> dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or 
>> something. 
>> 
>> We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or else 
>> you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing 
>> auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.
>> 
>> Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?
> 
> To me it's not 100% clear what you expect... 
> you don't want to modify the files concurrently, I hope.
> 
> With your use case I would ask for a buffer (file) reload menu item.

You may create a short-cut for it:
* open preferences
* select Edititing -> Shortcuts
* navigate to function "buffer-reload" below Document and Window
* assign a unused key combination, e. g. Ctrl-Alt-R or whatever

Stephan

Re: Lyx open buffered copy

[Stephan Witt]

Am 18.01.2011 um 11:17 schrieb Christian Wilhelmsen:

> I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the problem 
> is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync it through
> dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or 
> something. 
> 
> We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or else 
> you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing auto-backup, 
> if that was the problem, but no.
> 
> Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?

To me it's not 100% clear what you expect... 
you don't want to modify the files concurrently, I hope.

With your use case I would ask for a buffer (file) reload menu item.

But indeed currently LyX doesn't check for changes of the file on disk 
behind it's back on file open. This one I'd rate as a bug.
Please, enter this into LyX's bug tracker at http://www.lyx.org/trac.

Stephan

Lyx open buffered copy

[Christian Wilhelmsen]

I juse LyX and Dropbox in collaboration with my team mates, and the problem
is that when you have opened a file, another user edits it and sync it
through
dropbox, LyX wont open the new version, it opens a buffered copy or
something.

We have to close LyX each time we want to open an updated document, or else
you just get the copy that is stored in memory... Tried removing
auto-backup, if that was the problem, but no.

Anyone knows how we can get past this problem?


- christian wilhelmsen