availability of qpxmath (was 'Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)')

[Liviu Andronic]

(reviving an old discussion, again)

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath
 pxfonts   Pagella   Pagella  txfonts*    txfonts*    txfonts* pxfonts  yes

Why is qpxmath so hard to grab? It is as if it is part of TeXLive by
some fortunate coincidence in package texlive-lang-polish. While for
Miktex, on Windows, I haven't yet found a way to install it (through
the package manager).

Any ideas how to do this? Regards
Liviu

Re: availability of qpxmath (was 'Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)')

[Guenter Milde]

On 2010-11-26, Liviu Andronic wrote:
 (reviving an old discussion, again)

 On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath
 pxfonts   Pagella   Pagella  txfonts*    txfonts*    txfonts* pxfonts  yes

 Why is qpxmath so hard to grab? 

Most probably, because it is said to be an experimental package by its
authors.

 It is as if it is part of TeXLive by
 some fortunate coincidence in package texlive-lang-polish. 

I installed it via the texlive-lang-polish Debian package.

 While for Miktex, on Windows, I haven't yet found a way to install it
 (through the package manager).

 Any ideas how to do this? 

Unfortunately not (I don't run Windows).

Günter

availability of qpxmath (was 'Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)')

[Liviu Andronic]

(reviving an old discussion, again)

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath
 pxfonts   Pagella   Pagella  txfonts*    txfonts*    txfonts* pxfonts  yes

Why is qpxmath so hard to grab? It is as if it is part of TeXLive by
some fortunate coincidence in package texlive-lang-polish. While for
Miktex, on Windows, I haven't yet found a way to install it (through
the package manager).

Any ideas how to do this? Regards
Liviu

Re: availability of qpxmath (was 'Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)')

[Guenter Milde]

On 2010-11-26, Liviu Andronic wrote:
 (reviving an old discussion, again)

 On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath
 pxfonts   Pagella   Pagella  txfonts*    txfonts*    txfonts* pxfonts  yes

 Why is qpxmath so hard to grab? 

Most probably, because it is said to be an experimental package by its
authors.

 It is as if it is part of TeXLive by
 some fortunate coincidence in package texlive-lang-polish. 

I installed it via the texlive-lang-polish Debian package.

 While for Miktex, on Windows, I haven't yet found a way to install it
 (through the package manager).

 Any ideas how to do this? 

Unfortunately not (I don't run Windows).

Günter

availability of qpxmath (was 'Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)')

[Liviu Andronic]

(reviving an old discussion, again)

On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:
> qpxmath
> pxfonts   Pagella   Pagella  txfonts*    txfonts*    txfonts* pxfonts  yes
>
Why is qpxmath so hard to grab? It is as if it is part of TeXLive by
some fortunate coincidence in package texlive-lang-polish. While for
Miktex, on Windows, I haven't yet found a way to install it (through
the package manager).

Any ideas how to do this? Regards
Liviu

Re: availability of qpxmath (was 'Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)')

[Guenter Milde]

On 2010-11-26, Liviu Andronic wrote:
> (reviving an old discussion, again)

> On Sun, Sep 26, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:
>> qpxmath
>> pxfonts   Pagella   Pagella  txfonts*    txfonts*    txfonts* pxfonts  yes

> Why is qpxmath so hard to grab? 

Most probably, because it is said to be an experimental package by its
authors.

> It is as if it is part of TeXLive by
> some fortunate coincidence in package texlive-lang-polish. 

I installed it via the texlive-lang-polish Debian package.

> While for Miktex, on Windows, I haven't yet found a way to install it
> (through the package manager).

> Any ideas how to do this? 

Unfortunately not (I don't run Windows).

Günter

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

(an old subject)

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
 little dated?

At least on my document qpxmath (hence, pxfonts) catches more math
symbols than mathpazo, which takes several replacements from CM.

Regards
Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

(an old subject)

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
 little dated?

At least on my document qpxmath (hence, pxfonts) catches more math
symbols than mathpazo, which takes several replacements from CM.

Regards
Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

(an old subject)

On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:10 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
> little dated?
>
At least on my document qpxmath (hence, pxfonts) catches more math
symbols than mathpazo, which takes several replacements from CM.

Regards
Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Guenter Milde]

On 2010-08-12, Julio Rojas wrote:
 I have created a sample document with math included and tgpagella
 doesn't render math environments. At the end, I had to use:

 \usepackage{mathpazo,tgpagella}

 In order to have have mathpazo characters in math environments.

You can also try {qpxmath,tgpagella} (where qpxmath is Pagellas own
math extension from times where it still was called Quasi-Palatino).

 Tgpagella seems to be narrower, but not by much. It saves some space
 but this is far from dramatic.

Pagella should be identic in the base characters but e.g. the small
caps differ (although both, Pagella and mathpazo, provide *true* small
caps).


Günter

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
little dated?
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

BTW, all interested parties can check:
ftp://ftp.tug.ctan.org/hefferon/tug2009/gyre.pdf
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
 little dated?
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Guenter Milde]

On 2010-08-12, Julio Rojas wrote:
 I have created a sample document with math included and tgpagella
 doesn't render math environments. At the end, I had to use:

 \usepackage{mathpazo,tgpagella}

 In order to have have mathpazo characters in math environments.

You can also try {qpxmath,tgpagella} (where qpxmath is Pagellas own
math extension from times where it still was called Quasi-Palatino).

 Tgpagella seems to be narrower, but not by much. It saves some space
 but this is far from dramatic.

Pagella should be identic in the base characters but e.g. the small
caps differ (although both, Pagella and mathpazo, provide *true* small
caps).


Günter

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
little dated?
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

BTW, all interested parties can check:
ftp://ftp.tug.ctan.org/hefferon/tug2009/gyre.pdf
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
 little dated?
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.berlios.de wrote:
 qpxmath

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Guenter Milde]

On 2010-08-12, Julio Rojas wrote:
> I have created a sample document with math included and tgpagella
> doesn't render math environments. At the end, I had to use:

> \usepackage{mathpazo,tgpagella}

> In order to have have mathpazo characters in math environments.

You can also try {qpxmath,tgpagella} (where qpxmath is Pagellas own
math extension from times where it still was called Quasi-Palatino).

> Tgpagella seems to be narrower, but not by much. It saves some space
> but this is far from dramatic.

Pagella should be identic in the base characters but e.g. the small
caps differ (although both, Pagella and mathpazo, provide *true* small
caps).


Günter

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
little dated?
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:
> qpxmath

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

BTW, all interested parties can check:
ftp://ftp.tug.ctan.org/hefferon/tug2009/gyre.pdf
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 11:10 AM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> But qpx seems a rather old package, compared to mathpazo. Isn't it a
> little dated?
> -
> Julio Rojas
> jcredbe...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:
>> qpxmath
>

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello Rob

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:31:06 -0600
Rob Oakes lyx-de...@oak-tree.us wrote:
 The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.
 But, I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced
 font that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For
 that reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that
 Univers (or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are
 appropriate pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms
 in his youth. (I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers
 good typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite
 nice, just not for really long texts.)
 
I'm very curious, have you tried to pair Palatino with Optima?
To me it looks as if they were designed with the same eye (literary
true, since they were both created by Hermann Zapf). In my documents I
use 
\usepackage{tgpagella}
\renewcommand*\sfdefault{uop}

and while Optima is not installed by default,
it's easy to get it into TeXLive 07 [1]. I never liked Palatino
with Helvetica, but I'll experiment with Univers. 

As for the Sweave
(monospace) part, I change the default in verbatim to
fontfamily=courier, which tends to be a shade of grey and thus to set
apart the code from the rest of the text (at least the way I
perceive it). 

Should you have an opinion on the Palatino and Optima combination,
please let us know. 
Liviu

PS To continue the non-essential rant department, I also include package
microtype in my preamble, although I am not yet sure what's its net
impact on my documents. 

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77584.html

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
document I'm trying with is just text.

Best regards.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Rob

 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:31:06 -0600
 Rob Oakes lyx-de...@oak-tree.us wrote:
 The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.
 But, I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced
 font that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For
 that reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that
 Univers (or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are
 appropriate pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms
 in his youth. (I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers
 good typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite
 nice, just not for really long texts.)

 I'm very curious, have you tried to pair Palatino with Optima?
 To me it looks as if they were designed with the same eye (literary
 true, since they were both created by Hermann Zapf). In my documents I
 use
 \usepackage{tgpagella}
 \renewcommand*\sfdefault{uop}

 and while Optima is not installed by default,
 it's easy to get it into TeXLive 07 [1]. I never liked Palatino
 with Helvetica, but I'll experiment with Univers.

 As for the Sweave
 (monospace) part, I change the default in verbatim to
 fontfamily=courier, which tends to be a shade of grey and thus to set
 apart the code from the rest of the text (at least the way I
 perceive it).

 Should you have an opinion on the Palatino and Optima combination,
 please let us know.
 Liviu

 PS To continue the non-essential rant department, I also include package
 microtype in my preamble, although I am not yet sure what's its net
 impact on my documents.

 [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77584.html

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:30:27 +0200
Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
 saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
 document I'm trying with is just text.
 
As far as I remember Pagella is more complete than Palladio/Palatino
and in some cases will avoid replacements from CM or similar. 
Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

I have created a sample document with math included and tgpagella
doesn't render math environments. At the end, I had to use:

\usepackage{mathpazo,tgpagella}

In order to have have mathpazo characters in math environments.
Tgpagella seems to be narrower, but not by much. It saves some space
but this is far from dramatic.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:30:27 +0200
 Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
 saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
 document I'm trying with is just text.

 As far as I remember Pagella is more complete than Palladio/Palatino
 and in some cases will avoid replacements from CM or similar.
 Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Rob Oakes wrote:

The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.   
But,

I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced font
that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For that
reason, I don't use it often.


As a big fan of Robert Bringhurst's book The Elements of Typographic  
Style, I will follow him and suggest the sanserif typeface Syntax,  
designed by Hans Eduard Meier. Unlike most sanserifs, it is based on  
Renaissance forms like Garamond, as is Palatino. An illustration in  
his book shows how good it looks with Minion.


Bruce

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
called syntax.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

OMG!!! I just installed MinionPro and though I expended one hour, it
was completely worthwhile... Astonishingly beautiful.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
 It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
 called syntax.
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

Of course, nothing is perfect. I had an error while loading mnsymbol.
I'll create a new thread for this problem.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 OMG!!! I just installed MinionPro and though I expended one hour, it
 was completely worthwhile... Astonishingly beautiful.
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
 It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
 called syntax.
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Eran Kaplinsky]

 Syntax is a beautiful typeface, but in my experience the digital 
implementation looks nothing like the specimen in Bringhurst.
For a thesis, I would recommend exclusive use of MinionPro. Headlines 
can be done in all caps and small caps, or in bold. Math symbols and 
Greek are included. Works very well with \usepackage{microtype}.


Eran

As a big fan of Robert Bringhurst's book The Elements of Typographic 
Style, I will follow him and suggest the sanserif typeface Syntax, 
designed by Hans Eduard Meier. Unlike most sanserifs, it is based on 
Renaissance forms like Garamond, as is Palatino. An illustration in 
his book shows how good it looks with Minion.

Bruce

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello Rob

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:31:06 -0600
Rob Oakes lyx-de...@oak-tree.us wrote:
 The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.
 But, I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced
 font that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For
 that reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that
 Univers (or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are
 appropriate pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms
 in his youth. (I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers
 good typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite
 nice, just not for really long texts.)
 
I'm very curious, have you tried to pair Palatino with Optima?
To me it looks as if they were designed with the same eye (literary
true, since they were both created by Hermann Zapf). In my documents I
use 
\usepackage{tgpagella}
\renewcommand*\sfdefault{uop}

and while Optima is not installed by default,
it's easy to get it into TeXLive 07 [1]. I never liked Palatino
with Helvetica, but I'll experiment with Univers. 

As for the Sweave
(monospace) part, I change the default in verbatim to
fontfamily=courier, which tends to be a shade of grey and thus to set
apart the code from the rest of the text (at least the way I
perceive it). 

Should you have an opinion on the Palatino and Optima combination,
please let us know. 
Liviu

PS To continue the non-essential rant department, I also include package
microtype in my preamble, although I am not yet sure what's its net
impact on my documents. 

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77584.html

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
document I'm trying with is just text.

Best regards.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello Rob

 On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:31:06 -0600
 Rob Oakes lyx-de...@oak-tree.us wrote:
 The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.
 But, I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced
 font that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For
 that reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that
 Univers (or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are
 appropriate pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms
 in his youth. (I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers
 good typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite
 nice, just not for really long texts.)

 I'm very curious, have you tried to pair Palatino with Optima?
 To me it looks as if they were designed with the same eye (literary
 true, since they were both created by Hermann Zapf). In my documents I
 use
 \usepackage{tgpagella}
 \renewcommand*\sfdefault{uop}

 and while Optima is not installed by default,
 it's easy to get it into TeXLive 07 [1]. I never liked Palatino
 with Helvetica, but I'll experiment with Univers.

 As for the Sweave
 (monospace) part, I change the default in verbatim to
 fontfamily=courier, which tends to be a shade of grey and thus to set
 apart the code from the rest of the text (at least the way I
 perceive it).

 Should you have an opinion on the Palatino and Optima combination,
 please let us know.
 Liviu

 PS To continue the non-essential rant department, I also include package
 microtype in my preamble, although I am not yet sure what's its net
 impact on my documents.

 [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77584.html

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:30:27 +0200
Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
 saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
 document I'm trying with is just text.
 
As far as I remember Pagella is more complete than Palladio/Palatino
and in some cases will avoid replacements from CM or similar. 
Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

I have created a sample document with math included and tgpagella
doesn't render math environments. At the end, I had to use:

\usepackage{mathpazo,tgpagella}

In order to have have mathpazo characters in math environments.
Tgpagella seems to be narrower, but not by much. It saves some space
but this is far from dramatic.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Liviu Andronic landronim...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:30:27 +0200
 Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
 saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
 document I'm trying with is just text.

 As far as I remember Pagella is more complete than Palladio/Palatino
 and in some cases will avoid replacements from CM or similar.
 Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Rob Oakes wrote:

The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.   
But,

I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced font
that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For that
reason, I don't use it often.


As a big fan of Robert Bringhurst's book The Elements of Typographic  
Style, I will follow him and suggest the sanserif typeface Syntax,  
designed by Hans Eduard Meier. Unlike most sanserifs, it is based on  
Renaissance forms like Garamond, as is Palatino. An illustration in  
his book shows how good it looks with Minion.


Bruce

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
called syntax.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

OMG!!! I just installed MinionPro and though I expended one hour, it
was completely worthwhile... Astonishingly beautiful.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
 It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
 called syntax.
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

Of course, nothing is perfect. I had an error while loading mnsymbol.
I'll create a new thread for this problem.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 OMG!!! I just installed MinionPro and though I expended one hour, it
 was completely worthwhile... Astonishingly beautiful.
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Julio Rojas jcredbe...@gmail.com wrote:
 It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
 It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
 called syntax.
 -
 Julio Rojas
 jcredbe...@gmail.com



 On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 bruce.h.pourc...@lawrence.edu wrote:
 Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Eran Kaplinsky]

 Syntax is a beautiful typeface, but in my experience the digital 
implementation looks nothing like the specimen in Bringhurst.
For a thesis, I would recommend exclusive use of MinionPro. Headlines 
can be done in all caps and small caps, or in bold. Math symbols and 
Greek are included. Works very well with \usepackage{microtype}.


Eran

As a big fan of Robert Bringhurst's book The Elements of Typographic 
Style, I will follow him and suggest the sanserif typeface Syntax, 
designed by Hans Eduard Meier. Unlike most sanserifs, it is based on 
Renaissance forms like Garamond, as is Palatino. An illustration in 
his book shows how good it looks with Minion.

Bruce

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

Hello Rob

On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:31:06 -0600
Rob Oakes  wrote:
> The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.
> But, I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced
> font that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For
> that reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that
> Univers (or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are
> appropriate pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms
> in his youth. (I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers
> good typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite
> nice, just not for really long texts.)
> 
I'm very curious, have you tried to pair Palatino with Optima?
To me it looks as if they were designed with the same eye (literary
true, since they were both created by Hermann Zapf). In my documents I
use 
\usepackage{tgpagella}
\renewcommand*\sfdefault{uop}

and while Optima is not installed by default,
it's easy to get it into TeXLive 07 [1]. I never liked Palatino
with Helvetica, but I'll experiment with Univers. 

As for the Sweave
(monospace) part, I change the default in "verbatim" to
"fontfamily=courier", which tends to be a shade of grey and thus to set
apart the code from the rest of the text (at least the way I
perceive it). 

Should you have an opinion on the Palatino and Optima combination,
please let us know. 
Liviu

PS To continue the non-essential rant department, I also include package
microtype in my preamble, although I am not yet sure what's its net
impact on my documents. 

[1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77584.html

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
document I'm trying with is just text.

Best regards.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Liviu Andronic  wrote:
> Hello Rob
>
> On Wed, 11 Aug 2010 17:31:06 -0600
> Rob Oakes  wrote:
>> The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.
>> But, I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced
>> font that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For
>> that reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that
>> Univers (or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are
>> appropriate pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms
>> in his youth. (I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers
>> good typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite
>> nice, just not for really long texts.)
>>
> I'm very curious, have you tried to pair Palatino with Optima?
> To me it looks as if they were designed with the same eye (literary
> true, since they were both created by Hermann Zapf). In my documents I
> use
> \usepackage{tgpagella}
> \renewcommand*\sfdefault{uop}
>
> and while Optima is not installed by default,
> it's easy to get it into TeXLive 07 [1]. I never liked Palatino
> with Helvetica, but I'll experiment with Univers.
>
> As for the Sweave
> (monospace) part, I change the default in "verbatim" to
> "fontfamily=courier", which tends to be a shade of grey and thus to set
> apart the code from the rest of the text (at least the way I
> perceive it).
>
> Should you have an opinion on the Palatino and Optima combination,
> please let us know.
> Liviu
>
> PS To continue the non-essential rant department, I also include package
> microtype in my preamble, although I am not yet sure what's its net
> impact on my documents.
>
> [1] http://www.mail-archive.com/lyx-users@lists.lyx.org/msg77584.html
>

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Liviu Andronic]

On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:30:27 +0200
Julio Rojas  wrote:
> BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
> saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
> document I'm trying with is just text.
> 
As far as I remember Pagella is more complete than Palladio/Palatino
and in some cases will avoid replacements from CM or similar. 
Liviu

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

I have created a sample document with math included and tgpagella
doesn't render math environments. At the end, I had to use:

\usepackage{mathpazo,tgpagella}

In order to have have mathpazo characters in math environments.
Tgpagella seems to be narrower, but not by much. It saves some space
but this is far from dramatic.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 2:26 PM, Liviu Andronic  wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Aug 2010 11:30:27 +0200
> Julio Rojas  wrote:
>> BTW, I have tried using tgpagella and mathpazo in one document, but
>> saw no differences. Are there any? I use quite a lot of math, but the
>> document I'm trying with is just text.
>>
> As far as I remember Pagella is more complete than Palladio/Palatino
> and in some cases will avoid replacements from CM or similar.
> Liviu
>

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Bruce Pourciau]

On Aug 11, 2010, at 6:31 PM, Rob Oakes wrote:

The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.   
But,

I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced font
that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For that
reason, I don't use it often.


As a big fan of Robert Bringhurst's book The Elements of Typographic  
Style, I will follow him and suggest the sanserif typeface Syntax,  
designed by Hans Eduard Meier. Unlike most sanserifs, it is based on  
Renaissance forms like Garamond, as is Palatino. An illustration in  
his book shows how good it looks with Minion.


Bruce

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
called "syntax".
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
 wrote:
> Hans Eduard Meier

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

OMG!!! I just installed MinionPro and though I expended one hour, it
was completely worthwhile... Astonishingly beautiful.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
> It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
> called "syntax".
> -
> Julio Rojas
> jcredbe...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
>  wrote:
>> Hans Eduard Meier
>

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Julio Rojas]

Of course, nothing is perfect. I had an error while loading mnsymbol.
I'll create a new thread for this problem.
-
Julio Rojas
jcredbe...@gmail.com



On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
> OMG!!! I just installed MinionPro and though I expended one hour, it
> was completely worthwhile... Astonishingly beautiful.
> -
> Julio Rojas
> jcredbe...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:48 PM, Julio Rojas  wrote:
>> It really looks nice!!! Do anybody know how to install it in MikTeX?
>> It doesn't appear in the package manager, or at least it doesn't if
>> called "syntax".
>> -
>> Julio Rojas
>> jcredbe...@gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Bruce Pourciau
>>  wrote:
>>> Hans Eduard Meier
>>
>

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Eran Kaplinsky]

 Syntax is a beautiful typeface, but in my experience the digital 
implementation looks nothing like the specimen in Bringhurst.
For a thesis, I would recommend exclusive use of MinionPro. Headlines 
can be done in all caps and small caps, or in bold. Math symbols and 
Greek are included. Works very well with \usepackage{microtype}.


Eran

As a big fan of Robert Bringhurst's book The Elements of Typographic 
Style, I will follow him and suggest the sanserif typeface Syntax, 
designed by Hans Eduard Meier. Unlike most sanserifs, it is based on 
Renaissance forms like Garamond, as is Palatino. An illustration in 
his book shows how good it looks with Minion.

Bruce

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Rob Oakes]

 Hi Morten,

 Since this discussion is turning to matters of taste, what do you 
think about the font choices? The default font is obviously dated, if 
elegant. What do you people use? 


Take care with calling Computer Modern dated.  I personally don't like 
it, but a lot of people do.  I'd use stronger language -- such as 
calling it rigid, pompous or and ghastly -- but that got me in trouble 
last time.  So I'll refrain.  There's no reason to start forest 
unnecessary forest fires.)  It works very nicely for mathematics and it 
has a cult following.


Beside, fonts never really become dated.  Look at Helvetica, or Gill 
Sans.  They've been around for 60 and 80 years, respectively, and are 
not going anywhere.  Helvetica is everywhere and Gill Sans is (more or 
less) the default Sans Serif for Mac computers.  Not bad for old timers.


As far as my personal preferences go, I'm a big fan of Minion and Myriad 
Pro fonts.  I use Minion for body text and Myriad as a sans serif.  I 
haven't quite found a mono spaced font that I like.  Yet.  Courier Std 
works in a pinch.  (If anyone has any other ideas, I would love to hear 
them.)  I leave Latin Modern for math.  Customizing math fonts in 
xelatex is a pain that no one should suffer willingly, so I don't bother.


Regarding files, I use the OpenType variants available with xelatex.  
There is also a MinionPro package that can be used with other tex 
variants 
(http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/minionpro/MinionPro.pdf).  It 
will even customize the math fonts for you.


Re: Palatino.  I absolutely love Palatino and second Liviu's 
recommendations.


The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.  But, 
I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced font 
that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For that 
reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that Univers 
(or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are appropriate 
pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms in his youth.  
(I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers good 
typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite nice, just 
not for really long texts.)


Re: Margins and Details

If you're using Minion, be sure to set appropriate margins.  Minion is 
slightly narrower than Palatino and related fonts, and your margins 
should be adjusted accordingly.


Re: General Advice

However ... I'd worry about fonts and appearance until the end.  The 
choice of font should complement the subject of your thesis, and it is 
usually impossible to choose before it has been written.  Book design 
follows the writing of the book, not before.


(I'm speaking from experience, rather than trying to be preachy.  I've 
been working on a book about Open Source writing and I've wasted 
inordinate amounts of time fretting about fonts, margins, and headings.  
This is why authors should also not be their own book designers.)


With the disclaimer, I would start looking at every book you see.  Spend 
time in the bookstore browsing titles that are similar to your thesis 
and look at how they lay things out.  In the frontmatter, it will 
usually say who designed the book and what typefaces were used.  If you 
find a pairing that you really like, by all means, steal it.  There is 
no reason to re-invent wheels if you don't have to.  Also, note how wide 
the margins are and whether they use fully justified text, or ragged 
right.  (These things really do matter, a lot.  Designer types have done 
lots of research about these things.)


With all that said, the default package pairings in LaTeX are really 
quite good.  Consider using one of those.  The LaTeX companion has an 
overview and I would highly recommend you take a look.


Just wait until you are finished, though, and know what type of effect 
you want to achieve.  It will save you hours of tinkering.  For working 
drafts, use Latin Modern.


Cheers,

Rob

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Rob Oakes]

 Hi Morten,

 Since this discussion is turning to matters of taste, what do you 
think about the font choices? The default font is obviously dated, if 
elegant. What do you people use? 


Take care with calling Computer Modern dated.  I personally don't like 
it, but a lot of people do.  I'd use stronger language -- such as 
calling it rigid, pompous or and ghastly -- but that got me in trouble 
last time.  So I'll refrain.  There's no reason to start forest 
unnecessary forest fires.)  It works very nicely for mathematics and it 
has a cult following.


Beside, fonts never really become dated.  Look at Helvetica, or Gill 
Sans.  They've been around for 60 and 80 years, respectively, and are 
not going anywhere.  Helvetica is everywhere and Gill Sans is (more or 
less) the default Sans Serif for Mac computers.  Not bad for old timers.


As far as my personal preferences go, I'm a big fan of Minion and Myriad 
Pro fonts.  I use Minion for body text and Myriad as a sans serif.  I 
haven't quite found a mono spaced font that I like.  Yet.  Courier Std 
works in a pinch.  (If anyone has any other ideas, I would love to hear 
them.)  I leave Latin Modern for math.  Customizing math fonts in 
xelatex is a pain that no one should suffer willingly, so I don't bother.


Regarding files, I use the OpenType variants available with xelatex.  
There is also a MinionPro package that can be used with other tex 
variants 
(http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/minionpro/MinionPro.pdf).  It 
will even customize the math fonts for you.


Re: Palatino.  I absolutely love Palatino and second Liviu's 
recommendations.


The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.  But, 
I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced font 
that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For that 
reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that Univers 
(or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are appropriate 
pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms in his youth.  
(I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers good 
typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite nice, just 
not for really long texts.)


Re: Margins and Details

If you're using Minion, be sure to set appropriate margins.  Minion is 
slightly narrower than Palatino and related fonts, and your margins 
should be adjusted accordingly.


Re: General Advice

However ... I'd worry about fonts and appearance until the end.  The 
choice of font should complement the subject of your thesis, and it is 
usually impossible to choose before it has been written.  Book design 
follows the writing of the book, not before.


(I'm speaking from experience, rather than trying to be preachy.  I've 
been working on a book about Open Source writing and I've wasted 
inordinate amounts of time fretting about fonts, margins, and headings.  
This is why authors should also not be their own book designers.)


With the disclaimer, I would start looking at every book you see.  Spend 
time in the bookstore browsing titles that are similar to your thesis 
and look at how they lay things out.  In the frontmatter, it will 
usually say who designed the book and what typefaces were used.  If you 
find a pairing that you really like, by all means, steal it.  There is 
no reason to re-invent wheels if you don't have to.  Also, note how wide 
the margins are and whether they use fully justified text, or ragged 
right.  (These things really do matter, a lot.  Designer types have done 
lots of research about these things.)


With all that said, the default package pairings in LaTeX are really 
quite good.  Consider using one of those.  The LaTeX companion has an 
overview and I would highly recommend you take a look.


Just wait until you are finished, though, and know what type of effect 
you want to achieve.  It will save you hours of tinkering.  For working 
drafts, use Latin Modern.


Cheers,

Rob

Re: lyx: Font derail (with semi-related ranting)

[Rob Oakes]

 Hi Morten,

<< Since this discussion is turning to matters of taste, what do you 
think about the font choices? The default font is obviously dated, if 
elegant. What do you people use? >>


Take care with calling Computer Modern dated.  I personally don't like 
it, but a lot of people do.  I'd use stronger language -- such as 
calling it rigid, pompous or and ghastly -- but that got me in trouble 
last time.  So I'll refrain.  There's no reason to start forest 
unnecessary forest fires.)  It works very nicely for mathematics and it 
has a cult following.


Beside, fonts never really become "dated".  Look at Helvetica, or Gill 
Sans.  They've been around for 60 and 80 years, respectively, and are 
not going anywhere.  Helvetica is everywhere and Gill Sans is (more or 
less) the default Sans Serif for Mac computers.  Not bad for old timers.


As far as my personal preferences go, I'm a big fan of Minion and Myriad 
Pro fonts.  I use Minion for body text and Myriad as a sans serif.  I 
haven't quite found a mono spaced font that I like.  Yet.  Courier Std 
works in a pinch.  (If anyone has any other ideas, I would love to hear 
them.)  I leave Latin Modern for math.  Customizing math fonts in 
xelatex is a pain that no one should suffer willingly, so I don't bother.


Regarding files, I use the OpenType variants available with xelatex.  
There is also a MinionPro package that can be used with other tex 
variants 
(http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/fonts/minionpro/MinionPro.pdf).  It 
will even customize the math fonts for you.


Re: Palatino.  I absolutely love Palatino and second Liviu's 
recommendations.


The letter forms of Palatino may be the most refined ever created.  But, 
I've never really been able to find a sans-serif and mono-spaced font 
that matches well.  (At least not per my aesthetic taste.)  For that 
reason, I don't use it often.  A good designer friend says that Univers 
(or if you really need to go there, Helvetica) are appropriate 
pairings.  I think he consumed too many magic mushrooms in his youth.  
(I actually agree with the Univers pairing.  It offers good 
typographical contrast and the final effect really is quite nice, just 
not for really long texts.)


Re: Margins and Details

If you're using Minion, be sure to set appropriate margins.  Minion is 
slightly narrower than Palatino and related fonts, and your margins 
should be adjusted accordingly.


Re: General Advice

However ... I'd worry about fonts and appearance until the end.  The 
choice of font should complement the subject of your thesis, and it is 
usually impossible to choose before it has been written.  Book design 
follows the writing of the book, not before.


(I'm speaking from experience, rather than trying to be preachy.  I've 
been working on a book about Open Source writing and I've wasted 
inordinate amounts of time fretting about fonts, margins, and headings.  
This is why authors should also not be their own book designers.)


With the disclaimer, I would start looking at every book you see.  Spend 
time in the bookstore browsing titles that are similar to your thesis 
and look at how they lay things out.  In the frontmatter, it will 
usually say who designed the book and what typefaces were used.  If you 
find a pairing that you really like, by all means, steal it.  There is 
no reason to re-invent wheels if you don't have to.  Also, note how wide 
the margins are and whether they use fully justified text, or ragged 
right.  (These things really do matter, a lot.  Designer types have done 
lots of research about these things.)


With all that said, the default package pairings in LaTeX are really 
quite good.  Consider using one of those.  The LaTeX companion has an 
overview and I would highly recommend you take a look.


Just wait until you are finished, though, and know what type of effect 
you want to achieve.  It will save you hours of tinkering.  For working 
drafts, use Latin Modern.


Cheers,

Rob