Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-14 Thread G. Milde
On 11.07.08, bigblop wrote:

 If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does not
 show (only appears as question marks).

Insert the bibtex references inside a branch in the child document.

Either do not define this branch in the master or set it off there.

GM


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-14 Thread G. Milde
On 11.07.08, bigblop wrote:

 If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does not
 show (only appears as question marks).

Insert the bibtex references inside a branch in the child document.

Either do not define this branch in the master or set it off there.

GM


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-14 Thread G. Milde
On 11.07.08, bigblop wrote:

> If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does not
> show (only appears as question marks).

Insert the bibtex references inside a branch in the child document.

Either do not define this branch in the master or set it "off" there.

GM


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-12 Thread Dominik Waßenhoven
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 bigblop wrote:

 If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does
 not show (only appears as question marks).

 It can be done, but it's a bit more advanced and I'm not sure I remember
 how I did it.

Here is an example how I did it: In the main document, put these two
lines in the preamble:

, [master.lyx preamble] .
  \usepackage{comment} 
  \excludecomment{subbib}  
'-'

In the child documents, you have to include the following in the
preamble:

, [child.lyx preamble] .
  \usepackage{comment} 
  \includecomment{subbib}  
'-'

In the master document, you can include the bibliography normally. In
the child documents, however, you have to embed it in the 'subbib'
environment (which is created by the package 'comment' and the command
'includecomment'). This has to be done in ERT, not with the
bibliography-dialog:

, [child.lyx document] --.
  \begin{subbib}  
  \bibliographystyle{bibstyle}  
  \bibliography{bib file}   
  \end{subbib}
''

When you now compile the master document, the 'subbib' environments are
ignored. If you compile a child document, they are included.

Regards,
Dominik.-



Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-12 Thread bigblop

Ha! That was exactly what I needed! I just put:

\bind   M-1 master-buffer-update pdf2

in my bind file and know the master is compiled from the child when I press
Alt-1. A perfect and simple solution. Thanks.




Jürgen Spitzmüller-2 wrote:
 
 bigblop wrote:
 Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?
 
 If you have opened the child document from the master document (or after
 you 
 have once processed the master), you can compile the master from the child 
 with the command master-buffer-update pdf2 (for pdflatex, as an example; 
 there's also master-buffer-view and you can substitute pdf2 by any output 
 format). You can either input this command in the minibuffer, or you can 
 create your own toolbar or menu item or shortcuts for this. In fact, you
 can 
 even replace the standard commands buffer-view and buffer-update with 
 these, since if no master is found, the document itself gets compiled.
 
 In 1.6, things will get a bit easier. There you can allocate a master
 buffer 
 to a child in the document dialog, so the first step is not needed
 anymore.
 
 Jürgen
 
 

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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-12 Thread Dominik Waßenhoven
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 bigblop wrote:

 If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does
 not show (only appears as question marks).

 It can be done, but it's a bit more advanced and I'm not sure I remember
 how I did it.

Here is an example how I did it: In the main document, put these two
lines in the preamble:

, [master.lyx preamble] .
  \usepackage{comment} 
  \excludecomment{subbib}  
'-'

In the child documents, you have to include the following in the
preamble:

, [child.lyx preamble] .
  \usepackage{comment} 
  \includecomment{subbib}  
'-'

In the master document, you can include the bibliography normally. In
the child documents, however, you have to embed it in the 'subbib'
environment (which is created by the package 'comment' and the command
'includecomment'). This has to be done in ERT, not with the
bibliography-dialog:

, [child.lyx document] --.
  \begin{subbib}  
  \bibliographystyle{bibstyle}  
  \bibliography{bib file}   
  \end{subbib}
''

When you now compile the master document, the 'subbib' environments are
ignored. If you compile a child document, they are included.

Regards,
Dominik.-



Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-12 Thread bigblop

Ha! That was exactly what I needed! I just put:

\bind   M-1 master-buffer-update pdf2

in my bind file and know the master is compiled from the child when I press
Alt-1. A perfect and simple solution. Thanks.




Jürgen Spitzmüller-2 wrote:
 
 bigblop wrote:
 Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?
 
 If you have opened the child document from the master document (or after
 you 
 have once processed the master), you can compile the master from the child 
 with the command master-buffer-update pdf2 (for pdflatex, as an example; 
 there's also master-buffer-view and you can substitute pdf2 by any output 
 format). You can either input this command in the minibuffer, or you can 
 create your own toolbar or menu item or shortcuts for this. In fact, you
 can 
 even replace the standard commands buffer-view and buffer-update with 
 these, since if no master is found, the document itself gets compiled.
 
 In 1.6, things will get a bit easier. There you can allocate a master
 buffer 
 to a child in the document dialog, so the first step is not needed
 anymore.
 
 Jürgen
 
 

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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-12 Thread Dominik Waßenhoven
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>> bigblop wrote:

>>> If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does
>>> not show (only appears as question marks).

> It can be done, but it's a bit more advanced and I'm not sure I remember
> how I did it.

Here is an example how I did it: In the main document, put these two
lines in the preamble:

, [master.lyx preamble] .
  \usepackage{comment} 
  \excludecomment{subbib}  
'-'

In the child documents, you have to include the following in the
preamble:

, [child.lyx preamble] .
  \usepackage{comment} 
  \includecomment{subbib}  
'-'

In the master document, you can include the bibliography normally. In
the child documents, however, you have to embed it in the 'subbib'
environment (which is created by the package 'comment' and the command
'includecomment'). This has to be done in ERT, not with the
bibliography-dialog:

, [child.lyx document] --.
  \begin{subbib}  
  \bibliographystyle{}  
  \bibliography{}   
  \end{subbib}
''

When you now compile the master document, the 'subbib' environments are
ignored. If you compile a child document, they are included.

Regards,
Dominik.-



Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-12 Thread bigblop

Ha! That was exactly what I needed! I just put:

\bind   "M-1" "master-buffer-update pdf2"

in my bind file and know the master is compiled from the child when I press
Alt-1. A perfect and simple solution. Thanks.




Jürgen Spitzmüller-2 wrote:
> 
> bigblop wrote:
>> Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?
> 
> If you have opened the child document from the master document (or after
> you 
> have once processed the master), you can compile the master from the child 
> with the command "master-buffer-update pdf2" (for pdflatex, as an example; 
> there's also master-buffer-view and you can substitute pdf2 by any output 
> format). You can either input this command in the minibuffer, or you can 
> create your own toolbar or menu item or shortcuts for this. In fact, you
> can 
> even replace the standard commands "buffer-view" and "buffer-update" with 
> these, since if no master is found, the document itself gets compiled.
> 
> In 1.6, things will get a bit easier. There you can allocate a master
> buffer 
> to a child in the document dialog, so the first step is not needed
> anymore.
> 
> Jürgen
> 
> 

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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread James Sutherland


On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, bigblop wrote:



I have made a main.lyx file that includes a few child documents as  
input
files. But when I am compiling a child document the whole document  
does not
get updated. This means that each time I want to se the changes I  
have made

I need to compile the main.lyx file which is rather annoying.

Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?


Annoying to one is a nice feature to another.  This is actually  
really a nice feature in LyX because you can actually compile and view  
child documents independently from the parent, and with different  
formatting (line spacing, margins, etc.).  This is not easily done in  
LaTeX.


I just switch the focus in LyX back to the main file and compile  
it.  Then you get the whole thing.


James


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop

If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does not
show (only appears as question marks).

But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you say
that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
document updated (or even a child to look correct).



James Sutherland-4 wrote:
 
 
 On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, bigblop wrote:
 

 I have made a main.lyx file that includes a few child documents as  
 input
 files. But when I am compiling a child document the whole document  
 does not
 get updated. This means that each time I want to se the changes I  
 have made
 I need to compile the main.lyx file which is rather annoying.

 Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?
 
 Annoying to one is a nice feature to another.  This is actually  
 really a nice feature in LyX because you can actually compile and view  
 child documents independently from the parent, and with different  
 formatting (line spacing, margins, etc.).  This is not easily done in  
 LaTeX.
 
 I just switch the focus in LyX back to the main file and compile  
 it.  Then you get the whole thing.
 
 James
 
 

-- 
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http://www.nabble.com/Compiling-Root-document-from-child-document--tp18411658p18412701.html
Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread James Sutherland


On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:16 PM, bigblop wrote:



If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file  
does not

show (only appears as question marks).

But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you  
say

that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
document updated (or even a child to look correct).

Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want  
the full document with proper cross references.


This is no different than LaTeX.  There you still must compile the  
main file and not the children.  In LaTeX the problem is even a bit  
worse because a child will not compile at all because all of the  
latex preamble stuff is missing.  So LyX seems to be better than LaTeX  
in this regard, although not perfect since, as you point out,  
references are broken...


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread Christian Ridderström

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, James Sutherland wrote:

If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does 
not show (only appears as question marks).


It can be done, but it's a bit more advanced and I'm not sure I remember 
how I did it. Perhaps I did it by using the preamble of the child document 
to define a custom command that defines the .bib-file to use, and then 
inserted that custom command at the end of the child document.


Anyway, I know it can be done. If it's important, ask for it and I'll see 
if I can dig out my old thesis files.


But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you 
say that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the 
whole document updated (or even a child to look correct).


You could perhaps define your own keyboard sequence that does this for 
you?


In the general case though, how would the child document know which 
document that is it's master?  Or... why can't a child document belong to 
two or more master documents?


Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want 
the full document with proper cross references.


True.. cross references to other child documents will not work, only 
bibilography referenes.


regards,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop



True.. cross references to other child documents will not work, only 
bibilography referenes.


That only works if a bibliography section is also inserted in the child -
which is not a good idea.
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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop



James Sutherland-4 wrote:
 
 
 On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:16 PM, bigblop wrote:
 

 If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file  
 does not
 show (only appears as question marks).

 But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you  
 say
 that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
 document updated (or even a child to look correct).

 Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want  
 the full document with proper cross references.
 
 This is no different than LaTeX.  There you still must compile the  
 main file and not the children.  In LaTeX the problem is even a bit  
 worse because a child will not compile at all because all of the  
 latex preamble stuff is missing.  So LyX seems to be better than LaTeX  
 in this regard, although not perfect since, as you point out,  
 references are broken...
 
 

I know that it works with Kile for linux. There its possible to make a
project where you define a compile command that always compiles the master
eventhough you are currently editing a child. It seems that it would just be
a matter of defining a shortkey to compile a user specified .lyx file (in
this case main.lyx)

-- 
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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
bigblop wrote:
 Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?

If you have opened the child document from the master document (or after you 
have once processed the master), you can compile the master from the child 
with the command master-buffer-update pdf2 (for pdflatex, as an example; 
there's also master-buffer-view and you can substitute pdf2 by any output 
format). You can either input this command in the minibuffer, or you can 
create your own toolbar or menu item or shortcuts for this. In fact, you can 
even replace the standard commands buffer-view and buffer-update with 
these, since if no master is found, the document itself gets compiled.

In 1.6, things will get a bit easier. There you can allocate a master buffer 
to a child in the document dialog, so the first step is not needed anymore.

Jürgen


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread James Sutherland


On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, bigblop wrote:



I have made a main.lyx file that includes a few child documents as  
input
files. But when I am compiling a child document the whole document  
does not
get updated. This means that each time I want to se the changes I  
have made

I need to compile the main.lyx file which is rather annoying.

Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?


Annoying to one is a nice feature to another.  This is actually  
really a nice feature in LyX because you can actually compile and view  
child documents independently from the parent, and with different  
formatting (line spacing, margins, etc.).  This is not easily done in  
LaTeX.


I just switch the focus in LyX back to the main file and compile  
it.  Then you get the whole thing.


James


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop

If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does not
show (only appears as question marks).

But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you say
that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
document updated (or even a child to look correct).



James Sutherland-4 wrote:
 
 
 On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, bigblop wrote:
 

 I have made a main.lyx file that includes a few child documents as  
 input
 files. But when I am compiling a child document the whole document  
 does not
 get updated. This means that each time I want to se the changes I  
 have made
 I need to compile the main.lyx file which is rather annoying.

 Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?
 
 Annoying to one is a nice feature to another.  This is actually  
 really a nice feature in LyX because you can actually compile and view  
 child documents independently from the parent, and with different  
 formatting (line spacing, margins, etc.).  This is not easily done in  
 LaTeX.
 
 I just switch the focus in LyX back to the main file and compile  
 it.  Then you get the whole thing.
 
 James
 
 

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Compiling-Root-document-from-child-document--tp18411658p18412701.html
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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread James Sutherland


On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:16 PM, bigblop wrote:



If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file  
does not

show (only appears as question marks).

But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you  
say

that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
document updated (or even a child to look correct).

Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want  
the full document with proper cross references.


This is no different than LaTeX.  There you still must compile the  
main file and not the children.  In LaTeX the problem is even a bit  
worse because a child will not compile at all because all of the  
latex preamble stuff is missing.  So LyX seems to be better than LaTeX  
in this regard, although not perfect since, as you point out,  
references are broken...


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread Christian Ridderström

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, James Sutherland wrote:

If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does 
not show (only appears as question marks).


It can be done, but it's a bit more advanced and I'm not sure I remember 
how I did it. Perhaps I did it by using the preamble of the child document 
to define a custom command that defines the .bib-file to use, and then 
inserted that custom command at the end of the child document.


Anyway, I know it can be done. If it's important, ask for it and I'll see 
if I can dig out my old thesis files.


But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you 
say that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the 
whole document updated (or even a child to look correct).


You could perhaps define your own keyboard sequence that does this for 
you?


In the general case though, how would the child document know which 
document that is it's master?  Or... why can't a child document belong to 
two or more master documents?


Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want 
the full document with proper cross references.


True.. cross references to other child documents will not work, only 
bibilography referenes.


regards,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop



True.. cross references to other child documents will not work, only 
bibilography referenes.


That only works if a bibliography section is also inserted in the child -
which is not a good idea.
-- 
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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop



James Sutherland-4 wrote:
 
 
 On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:16 PM, bigblop wrote:
 

 If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file  
 does not
 show (only appears as question marks).

 But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you  
 say
 that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
 document updated (or even a child to look correct).

 Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want  
 the full document with proper cross references.
 
 This is no different than LaTeX.  There you still must compile the  
 main file and not the children.  In LaTeX the problem is even a bit  
 worse because a child will not compile at all because all of the  
 latex preamble stuff is missing.  So LyX seems to be better than LaTeX  
 in this regard, although not perfect since, as you point out,  
 references are broken...
 
 

I know that it works with Kile for linux. There its possible to make a
project where you define a compile command that always compiles the master
eventhough you are currently editing a child. It seems that it would just be
a matter of defining a shortkey to compile a user specified .lyx file (in
this case main.lyx)

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Compiling-Root-document-from-child-document--tp18411658p18414397.html
Sent from the LyX - Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.



Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
bigblop wrote:
 Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?

If you have opened the child document from the master document (or after you 
have once processed the master), you can compile the master from the child 
with the command master-buffer-update pdf2 (for pdflatex, as an example; 
there's also master-buffer-view and you can substitute pdf2 by any output 
format). You can either input this command in the minibuffer, or you can 
create your own toolbar or menu item or shortcuts for this. In fact, you can 
even replace the standard commands buffer-view and buffer-update with 
these, since if no master is found, the document itself gets compiled.

In 1.6, things will get a bit easier. There you can allocate a master buffer 
to a child in the document dialog, so the first step is not needed anymore.

Jürgen


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread James Sutherland


On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, bigblop wrote:



I have made a main.lyx file that includes a few child documents as  
input
files. But when I am compiling a child document the whole document  
does not
get updated. This means that each time I want to se the changes I  
have made

I need to compile the main.lyx file which is rather annoying.

Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?


"Annoying" to one is a "nice feature" to another.  This is actually  
really a nice feature in LyX because you can actually compile and view  
child documents independently from the parent, and with different  
formatting (line spacing, margins, etc.).  This is not easily done in  
LaTeX.


I just switch the focus in LyX back to the "main" file and compile  
it.  Then you get the whole thing.


James


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop

If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does not
show (only appears as question marks).

But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you say
that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
document updated (or even a child to look correct).



James Sutherland-4 wrote:
> 
> 
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 2:07 PM, bigblop wrote:
> 
>>
>> I have made a main.lyx file that includes a few child documents as  
>> input
>> files. But when I am compiling a child document the whole document  
>> does not
>> get updated. This means that each time I want to se the changes I  
>> have made
>> I need to compile the main.lyx file which is rather annoying.
>>
>> Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?
> 
> "Annoying" to one is a "nice feature" to another.  This is actually  
> really a nice feature in LyX because you can actually compile and view  
> child documents independently from the parent, and with different  
> formatting (line spacing, margins, etc.).  This is not easily done in  
> LaTeX.
> 
> I just switch the focus in LyX back to the "main" file and compile  
> it.  Then you get the whole thing.
> 
> James
> 
> 

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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread James Sutherland


On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:16 PM, bigblop wrote:



If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file  
does not

show (only appears as question marks).

But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you  
say

that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
document updated (or even a child to look correct).

Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want  
the full document with proper cross references.


This is no different than LaTeX.  There you still must compile the  
"main" file and not the children.  In LaTeX the problem is even a bit  
worse because a "child" will not compile at all because all of the  
latex preamble stuff is missing.  So LyX seems to be better than LaTeX  
in this regard, although not perfect since, as you point out,  
references are broken...


Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread Christian Ridderström

On Fri, 11 Jul 2008, James Sutherland wrote:

If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file does 
not show (only appears as question marks).


It can be done, but it's a bit more advanced and I'm not sure I remember 
how I did it. Perhaps I did it by using the preamble of the child document 
to define a custom command that defines the .bib-file to use, and then 
inserted that custom command at the end of the child document.


Anyway, I know it can be done. If it's important, ask for it and I'll see 
if I can dig out my old thesis files.


But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you 
say that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the 
whole document updated (or even a child to look correct).


You could perhaps define your own keyboard sequence that does this for 
you?


In the general case though, how would the child document know which 
document that is it's master?  Or... why can't a child document belong to 
two or more master documents?


Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want 
the full document with proper cross references.


True.. cross references to other child documents will not work, "only" 
bibilography referenes.


regards,
Christian

--
Christian Ridderström, +46-8-768 39 44http://www.md.kth.se/~chr

Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop



True.. cross references to other child documents will not work, "only" 
bibilography referenes.


That only works if a bibliography section is also inserted in the child -
which is not a good idea.
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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread bigblop



James Sutherland-4 wrote:
> 
> 
> On Jul 11, 2008, at 3:16 PM, bigblop wrote:
> 
>>
>> If I compile the child separately the references from my .bib file  
>> does not
>> show (only appears as question marks).
>>
>> But based on your answer it seems that my wish is not possible - you  
>> say
>> that I still have to manually skip to the main file to get the whole
>> document updated (or even a child to look correct).
>>
> Right.  You must compile the main file, not the children, if you want  
> the full document with proper cross references.
> 
> This is no different than LaTeX.  There you still must compile the  
> "main" file and not the children.  In LaTeX the problem is even a bit  
> worse because a "child" will not compile at all because all of the  
> latex preamble stuff is missing.  So LyX seems to be better than LaTeX  
> in this regard, although not perfect since, as you point out,  
> references are broken...
> 
> 

I know that it works with Kile for linux. There its possible to make a
project where you define a compile command that always compiles the master
eventhough you are currently editing a child. It seems that it would just be
a matter of defining a shortkey to compile a user specified .lyx file (in
this case main.lyx)

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Re: Compiling Root document from child document?

2008-07-11 Thread Jürgen Spitzmüller
bigblop wrote:
> Is there someway to compile the main.lyx file from a child document?

If you have opened the child document from the master document (or after you 
have once processed the master), you can compile the master from the child 
with the command "master-buffer-update pdf2" (for pdflatex, as an example; 
there's also master-buffer-view and you can substitute pdf2 by any output 
format). You can either input this command in the minibuffer, or you can 
create your own toolbar or menu item or shortcuts for this. In fact, you can 
even replace the standard commands "buffer-view" and "buffer-update" with 
these, since if no master is found, the document itself gets compiled.

In 1.6, things will get a bit easier. There you can allocate a master buffer 
to a child in the document dialog, so the first step is not needed anymore.

Jürgen