Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-07 Thread Guenter Milde
On 2011-12-06, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?

 Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

 AddToHTMLPreamble
 style type=text/css
 // css commands here
 /style
 EndPreamble

 You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

I see. 

However, it strikes me as an unbalanced approach.

With the local module GUI in plaxe, maybe we should either

* remove the LaTeX preamble (and use Local Layout with AddToPreamble
  instead), or
* add a HTML Preamble tab

so that the output options are treated equal.

Günter



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-07 Thread Liviu Andronic
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.sf.net wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?

 Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

 AddToHTMLPreamble
     style type=text/css
         // css commands here
     /style
 EndPreamble

 You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

 I see.

 However, it strikes me as an unbalanced approach.

 With the local module GUI in plaxe, maybe we should either

 * remove the LaTeX preamble (and use Local Layout with AddToPreamble
  instead), or
 * add a HTML Preamble tab

This second approach seems better. Since we natively support both
LaTeX and HTML output, and apparently both have a potential need for a
Preamble, then it stands to reason to have two different Preambles via
a 'tab' or a 'combobox': HTML output doesn't use the LaTeX Preamble
and vice versa.

Regards
Liviu


 so that the output options are treated equal.

 Günter




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-07 Thread Guenter Milde
On 2011-12-06, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?

 Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

 AddToHTMLPreamble
 style type=text/css
 // css commands here
 /style
 EndPreamble

 You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

I see. 

However, it strikes me as an unbalanced approach.

With the local module GUI in plaxe, maybe we should either

* remove the LaTeX preamble (and use Local Layout with AddToPreamble
  instead), or
* add a HTML Preamble tab

so that the output options are treated equal.

Günter



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-07 Thread Liviu Andronic
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.sf.net wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?

 Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

 AddToHTMLPreamble
     style type=text/css
         // css commands here
     /style
 EndPreamble

 You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

 I see.

 However, it strikes me as an unbalanced approach.

 With the local module GUI in plaxe, maybe we should either

 * remove the LaTeX preamble (and use Local Layout with AddToPreamble
  instead), or
 * add a HTML Preamble tab

This second approach seems better. Since we natively support both
LaTeX and HTML output, and apparently both have a potential need for a
Preamble, then it stands to reason to have two different Preambles via
a 'tab' or a 'combobox': HTML output doesn't use the LaTeX Preamble
and vice versa.

Regards
Liviu


 so that the output options are treated equal.

 Günter




-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-07 Thread Guenter Milde
On 2011-12-06, Richard Heck wrote:
> On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

>>> As LyX now offers native HTML export,
>>> is there an equivalent to Document>Settings>LaTeX preamble
>>> for "raw" HTML code in the document header?

> Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

> AddToHTMLPreamble
> 
> // css commands here
> 
> EndPreamble

> You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

I see. 

However, it strikes me as an unbalanced approach.

With the "local module" GUI in plaxe, maybe we should either

* remove the "LaTeX preamble" (and use Local Layout with AddToPreamble
  instead), or
* add a "HTML Preamble" tab

so that the output options are treated equal.

Günter



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-07 Thread Liviu Andronic
On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 9:28 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:
> On 2011-12-06, Richard Heck wrote:
>> On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
>
 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to Document>Settings>LaTeX preamble
 for "raw" HTML code in the document header?
>
>> Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:
>
>> AddToHTMLPreamble
>>     
>>         // css commands here
>>     
>> EndPreamble
>
>> You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.
>
> I see.
>
> However, it strikes me as an unbalanced approach.
>
> With the "local module" GUI in plaxe, maybe we should either
>
> * remove the "LaTeX preamble" (and use Local Layout with AddToPreamble
>  instead), or
> * add a "HTML Preamble" tab
>
This second approach seems better. Since we natively support both
LaTeX and HTML output, and apparently both have a potential need for a
Preamble, then it stands to reason to have two different Preambles via
a 'tab' or a 'combobox': HTML output doesn't use the LaTeX Preamble
and vice versa.

Regards
Liviu


> so that the output options are treated equal.
>
> Günter
>



-- 
Do you know how to read?
http://www.alienetworks.com/srtest.cfm
http://goodies.xfce.org/projects/applications/xfce4-dict#speed-reader
Do you know how to write?
http://garbl.home.comcast.net/~garbl/stylemanual/e.htm#e-mail


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Guenter Milde
On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished HTML 
 file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option for passing 
 through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to convert 
 LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would be an excellent 
 way to pass through eBook-only data, without it showing up in a book 
 printed from the same LyX file.

IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the LaTeX.

OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the LaTeX and
should be put in the HTML, too.

In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

\begin_inset Note Comment
status open

\begin_layout Plain Layout
a comment
\end_layout

\end_inset


 If it's too hard to do, or if there's not enough time to do it, I can 
 probably make a small program to scoop out the specific comment that 
 passes the eBook metadata, and give that information to the post-
 processor. The post-processor already adds pagefeeds to every h1 
 item in the HTML file and captures the Title, Author and Date but 
 doesn't print them.


As LyX now offers native HTML export,
is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
for raw HTML code in the document header?

Günter



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alex Fernandez
Hi, Steve and Guenter,

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.sf.net wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished HTML
 file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option for passing
 through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to convert
 LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would be an excellent
 way to pass through eBook-only data, without it showing up in a book
 printed from the same LyX file.

 IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the LaTeX.

 OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the LaTeX and
 should be put in the HTML, too.

 In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

 \begin_inset Note Comment
 status open

 \begin_layout Plain Layout
 a comment
 \end_layout

 \end_inset

Sounds reasonable. Steve, are you willing to try out a test version? I
can send it to you privately.

Alex.


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
  Hi Alex,
  
  I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished
  HTML file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option
  for passing through LyX comments.
  
  How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to
  convert LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would
  be an excellent way to pass through eBook-only data, without it
  showing up in a book printed from the same LyX file.
 
 IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the
 LaTeX.
 
 OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the
 LaTeX and should be put in the HTML, too.

They're not. What I used was (in 2.0), 

Insert-Note-Comment

I then ran eLyXer, and the resulting HTML file didn't contain the 
comment.


 
 In the *.lyx file, comments look like:
 
 \begin_inset Note Comment
 status open
 
 \begin_layout Plain Layout
 a comment
 \end_layout
 
 \end_inset

Yes, that's just what it looked like in Vim.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck

Can we please move elyxer discussion to the elyxer mailing list? This is
the LyX list.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?
 
 Günter

LyXHTML was much worse. I put in the following comment:

===
ebook
cover=”./bigtitle.jpg”
publisher=”Troubleshooters.Com”
===

Here was the output from LyXHTML:

==
!-- class=note_commenta id='magicparlabel-41888' /
ebook!-- Output Error: Closing tag `div' when other tags are open, 
namely: --!-- Output Error: !-- --/!--!-- Output Error: 
LyX_parsep_tag --/div

div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41892' /
cover=rdquo;./bigtitle.jpgrdquo;/div

div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41899' /
publisher=rdquo;Troubleshooters.Comrdquo;!-- Output Error: Tried to 
close `!--' when tag was not open. Tag discarded. --!-- Output 
Error: Tags still open in closeFontTags(). Probably not a problem,
but you might want to check these tags: --!-- Output Error: div --
!-- Output Error: No paragraph separation tag found in 
endParagraph(). --/div
==

The other thing is, from my understanding, unlike eLyXer which enables 
you to specify a .css file on the command line, the only way to 
specify a .css file in LyX's native LyXHTML is to define it within the 
layout file. First of all, in this book I have no layout file -- it's 
document class Book plain and simple. But second of all, even if I 
did, what I'd want is for the layout file to determine the PDF 
appearance, with the .css determining the flowing text eBook 
appearance.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck

Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
mailing list?

On 12/06/2011 12:06 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 05:15:38 AM Alex Fernandez wrote:
 Hi, Steve and Guenter,

 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.sf.net 
 wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished
 HTML file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option
 for passing through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to
 convert LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would
 be an excellent way to pass through eBook-only data, without it
 showing up in a book printed from the same LyX file.
 IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the
 LaTeX.

 OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the
 LaTeX and should be put in the HTML, too.

 In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

 \begin_inset Note Comment
 status open

 \begin_layout Plain Layout
 a comment
 \end_layout

 \end_inset
 Sounds reasonable. Steve, are you willing to try out a test
 version? I can send it to you privately.

 Alex.
 Abso-Lutely, but I just had another thought. After seeing how LyXHTML 
 handled comments, I'm beginning to wonder if the metadata not already 
 provided in LyX (Title, Author and Date) should simply be put in a 
 tiny XML file.

 Doing it separately kinda sorta makes sense when you think about it. 
 In my opinion, the LyX file should always be about how it looks in 
 PDF, with another file(s) providing looks/metadata in a flowing text 
 eBook. Actually, it might end up with three files, one for Kindle, one 
 for iPad, and one for Nook, and one for Open ePad (yeah, I have 
 trouble counting :-).

 If you already have something that passes through comments, I'll be 
 glad to test it today or in the next few days. Such a thing is 
 probably a good thing in general. However, if you're doing it just for 
 this specific thing, I'm thinking maybe hold off until all of us give 
 it more thought.

 I'm most of the way through a post processor for eLyXer-derived HTML 
 files that turns them into everything needed to make a Kindle. My 
 script is ugly, probably crashy in other circumstances, limited in 
 what situations it can handle, featureless, and pre-pre-alpha, but 
 when I get it working it can at least serve as a platform for 
 discussions on how to do it right the next time.

 Thanks for eLyXer. When you're making a Kindle book, it's the coolest 
 thing since sliced cheese.


 SteveT

 Steve Litt
 Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
 http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?

Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

AddToHTMLPreamble
style type=text/css
// css commands here
/style
EndPreamble

You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

 Günter
 LyXHTML was much worse. I put in the following comment:

 ===
 ebook
 cover=”./bigtitle.jpg”
 publisher=”Troubleshooters.Com”
 ===

 Here was the output from LyXHTML:

 ==
 !-- class=note_commenta id='magicparlabel-41888' /
 ebook!-- Output Error: Closing tag `div' when other tags are open, 
 namely: --!-- Output Error: !-- --/!--!-- Output Error: 
 LyX_parsep_tag --/div

 div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41892' /
 cover=rdquo;./bigtitle.jpgrdquo;/div

 div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41899' /
 publisher=rdquo;Troubleshooters.Comrdquo;!-- Output Error: Tried to 
 close `!--' when tag was not open. Tag discarded. --!-- Output 
 Error: Tags still open in closeFontTags(). Probably not a problem,
 but you might want to check these tags: --!-- Output Error: div --
 !-- Output Error: No paragraph separation tag found in 
 endParagraph(). --/div
 ==

There's some bug here involving multi-paragraph comments. I'll sort it out.

 The other thing is, from my understanding, unlike eLyXer which enables 
 you to specify a .css file on the command line, the only way to 
 specify a .css file in LyX's native LyXHTML is to define it within the 
 layout file. 

A recent patch from Rob Oakes will change this, in the sense that the
CSS will be written to a separate file. You can then modify it at will,
or replace it completely, as you wish. There's no need to specify anything.

 First of all, in this book I have no layout file -- it's 
 document class Book plain and simple. 

Then you do have a layout file: book.layout. And what it is doing can be
modified in different ways: You can write a module that you load with
the file, or you can enter your custom layout information into Local
Layout. Presumably, you'd want to do it as a module in this sort of
case, for re-usability. Or, as I said, you can do CSS separately. It's
entirely up to you.

 But second of all, even if I 
 did, what I'd want is for the layout file to determine the PDF 
 appearance, with the .css determining the flowing text eBook 
 appearance.

There's a misunderstanding here. In the PDF case, what the layout file
determines is what LaTeX gets output. Then pdflatex (or whatever) gets
run on that file, and you get a PDF. In the XHTML case, the layout file
determines what CSS gets output. Then the browser (or whatever)
determines how the whole thing gets displayed. The LaTeX-oriented parts
of the layout file are inactive when XHTML is output, just as the
XHTML-oriented parts of the layout file are inactive when LaTeX is output.

So the layout controls what gets output in both cases. But of course the
CSS is what's determining how the eBook appears, but as the LaTeX
determines how the PDF appears.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alex Fernandez
Hi Steve,

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
 Abso-Lutely, but I just had another thought. After seeing how LyXHTML
 handled comments, I'm beginning to wonder if the metadata not already
 provided in LyX (Title, Author and Date) should simply be put in a
 tiny XML file.

 Doing it separately kinda sorta makes sense when you think about it.
 In my opinion, the LyX file should always be about how it looks in
 PDF, with another file(s) providing looks/metadata in a flowing text
 eBook. Actually, it might end up with three files, one for Kindle, one
 for iPad, and one for Nook, and one for Open ePad (yeah, I have
 trouble counting :-).

 If you already have something that passes through comments, I'll be
 glad to test it today or in the next few days. Such a thing is
 probably a good thing in general. However, if you're doing it just for
 this specific thing, I'm thinking maybe hold off until all of us give
 it more thought.

OK, I will wait to hear from you.

 I'm most of the way through a post processor for eLyXer-derived HTML
 files that turns them into everything needed to make a Kindle. My
 script is ugly, probably crashy in other circumstances, limited in
 what situations it can handle, featureless, and pre-pre-alpha, but
 when I get it working it can at least serve as a platform for
 discussions on how to do it right the next time.

Ideally, that post-processor should be integrated within eLyXer to
generate EPUB or Kindle documents. I would be glad to add new options:
  $ elyxer.py --epub input.lyx output.html
or, for Kindle:
  $ elyxer.py --kindle input.lyx output.azw
(if that is indeed the extension for Amazon Kindle). The problem I
found when I looked into supporting EPUB was the definition of the
format itself: the supposedly open validator rejected a lot of the
constructs which eLyXer uses in its output, but they worked fine in
e.g. Calibre to generate a full EPUB document.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPUB#Validation
Perhaps newer versions of the specification have improved in that respect.

 Thanks for eLyXer. When you're making a Kindle book, it's the coolest
 thing since sliced cheese.

Thanks :)  I have copied the eLyXer-users list, if you want to discuss
eLyXer-specific stuff we can continue the discussion over there.

Alex.


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?

Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is to 
build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. As more and more 
books are written to a flowable text reader, LyX will become a more 
and more obvious choice. The HTML post-processor I discussed is one 
very easy, very modular, and very unobtrusive way to write the same 
book to both PDF/paper and Kindle, at least to the degree that such a 
thing can be done and still read. Building books for Kindle, iPad and 
Nook will probably become one of LyX's main uses in the future.

On or off topic is a relative thing. I have absolutely no interest in 
Sweave or Lilypond but don't I call them offtopic, because people use 
them to output information via LyX.

I could move this discussion over to the eLyXer list, or maybe a list 
specifically about flowable text authoring, but understand that doing 
so will remove most LyX-listers from input into the eventual flowable 
text making techniques with LyX, and understand that debugging will be 
more complex as people have to reach across mailing lists to determine 
in whose fiefdom the problem resides.

SteveT


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Rob Oakes
I for one would like for the topic to remain here. I don't follow the 
discussion on the eLyXer list, but knowing what developments happen with this 
topic are useful for things I'm working on. Especially if whatever Steve and 
Alex create can be adapted to work with the native XHTML modifications I'm 
trying to make.

To move it in a new direction, what tags are most important to Kindle? In what 
ways could the native LyX output be refined (I can create layouts/modules that 
fix these for testing purposes)? Where does the current implementation cause 
problems and for what reasons? (I'm currently looking into the situations 
raised by Steve.)

I've been delving into various ePub resources and I'm cleaning up the HTML 
based on HTML5 best practices, but it would be useful to know where else I can 
focus my attention.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?
 Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is to 
 build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 

Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details of
the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alan L Tyree
On 07/12/11 09:41:13, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
  On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
  Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
  mailing list?
  Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is
 to 
  build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 
 
 Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details
 of
 the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?

No, but I don't think it is the same.

If LyX is to develop into a serious e-book editor, then this is a very 
LyX related discussion. Even users such as myself who are in no 
position to contribute directly to the development have an interest in 
how this develops. Mere users can eventually have an input into this 
development.

It is not just a discussion about converters or bugs. It relates to how 
LyX will look and behave in the future. I agree with Steve and others 
that LyX could become major tool for writing e-books. As such, the 
discussion doesn't seem to me to be off topic.

Cheers,
Alan

 
 Richard
 
 



-- 
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206  sip:172...@iptel.org




Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 05:55 PM, Alan L Tyree wrote:
 On 07/12/11 09:41:13, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?
 Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is
 to 
 build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 

 Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details
 of the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?
 No, but I don't think it is the same.

 If LyX is to develop into a serious e-book editor, then this is a very 
 LyX related discussion. Even users such as myself who are in no 
 position to contribute directly to the development have an interest in 
 how this develops. Mere users can eventually have an input into this 
 development.

 It is not just a discussion about converters or bugs. It relates to how 
 LyX will look and behave in the future. I agree with Steve and others 
 that LyX could become major tool for writing e-books. As such, the 
 discussion doesn't seem to me to be off topic.

I agree with Steve, as well, that LyX could become such a tool. But that
is not what this discussion has been about. This discussion, as the
subject makes very clear, has been about elyxer, and about a very
specific question Steve had about it.

If people want to have a general discussion about how to make LyX a good
tool for writing e-books, then let's have that discussion. And let's
have it in such a way that it has something to do with LyX, which none
of this discussion so far has. Indeed, various of us have already been
having that discussion---but it is, frankly, a discussion for the devel
list, which many non-developers read and contribute to, for exactly the
reason you mention: because users' input is welcome and needed. This
list is for issues with LyX itself, or for questions about how to use
it, etc.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Guenter Milde
On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished HTML 
 file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option for passing 
 through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to convert 
 LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would be an excellent 
 way to pass through eBook-only data, without it showing up in a book 
 printed from the same LyX file.

IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the LaTeX.

OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the LaTeX and
should be put in the HTML, too.

In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

\begin_inset Note Comment
status open

\begin_layout Plain Layout
a comment
\end_layout

\end_inset


 If it's too hard to do, or if there's not enough time to do it, I can 
 probably make a small program to scoop out the specific comment that 
 passes the eBook metadata, and give that information to the post-
 processor. The post-processor already adds pagefeeds to every h1 
 item in the HTML file and captures the Title, Author and Date but 
 doesn't print them.


As LyX now offers native HTML export,
is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
for raw HTML code in the document header?

Günter



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alex Fernandez
Hi, Steve and Guenter,

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.sf.net wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished HTML
 file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option for passing
 through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to convert
 LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would be an excellent
 way to pass through eBook-only data, without it showing up in a book
 printed from the same LyX file.

 IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the LaTeX.

 OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the LaTeX and
 should be put in the HTML, too.

 In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

 \begin_inset Note Comment
 status open

 \begin_layout Plain Layout
 a comment
 \end_layout

 \end_inset

Sounds reasonable. Steve, are you willing to try out a test version? I
can send it to you privately.

Alex.


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
  Hi Alex,
  
  I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished
  HTML file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option
  for passing through LyX comments.
  
  How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to
  convert LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would
  be an excellent way to pass through eBook-only data, without it
  showing up in a book printed from the same LyX file.
 
 IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the
 LaTeX.
 
 OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the
 LaTeX and should be put in the HTML, too.

They're not. What I used was (in 2.0), 

Insert-Note-Comment

I then ran eLyXer, and the resulting HTML file didn't contain the 
comment.


 
 In the *.lyx file, comments look like:
 
 \begin_inset Note Comment
 status open
 
 \begin_layout Plain Layout
 a comment
 \end_layout
 
 \end_inset

Yes, that's just what it looked like in Vim.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck

Can we please move elyxer discussion to the elyxer mailing list? This is
the LyX list.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?
 
 Günter

LyXHTML was much worse. I put in the following comment:

===
ebook
cover=”./bigtitle.jpg”
publisher=”Troubleshooters.Com”
===

Here was the output from LyXHTML:

==
!-- class=note_commenta id='magicparlabel-41888' /
ebook!-- Output Error: Closing tag `div' when other tags are open, 
namely: --!-- Output Error: !-- --/!--!-- Output Error: 
LyX_parsep_tag --/div

div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41892' /
cover=rdquo;./bigtitle.jpgrdquo;/div

div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41899' /
publisher=rdquo;Troubleshooters.Comrdquo;!-- Output Error: Tried to 
close `!--' when tag was not open. Tag discarded. --!-- Output 
Error: Tags still open in closeFontTags(). Probably not a problem,
but you might want to check these tags: --!-- Output Error: div --
!-- Output Error: No paragraph separation tag found in 
endParagraph(). --/div
==

The other thing is, from my understanding, unlike eLyXer which enables 
you to specify a .css file on the command line, the only way to 
specify a .css file in LyX's native LyXHTML is to define it within the 
layout file. First of all, in this book I have no layout file -- it's 
document class Book plain and simple. But second of all, even if I 
did, what I'd want is for the layout file to determine the PDF 
appearance, with the .css determining the flowing text eBook 
appearance.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck

Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
mailing list?

On 12/06/2011 12:06 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 05:15:38 AM Alex Fernandez wrote:
 Hi, Steve and Guenter,

 On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Guenter Milde mi...@users.sf.net 
 wrote:
 On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished
 HTML file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option
 for passing through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to
 convert LyX comments to !-- HTML comments --? Comments would
 be an excellent way to pass through eBook-only data, without it
 showing up in a book printed from the same LyX file.
 IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the
 LaTeX.

 OTOH, Comments (InsertNoteComment) are put as comments in the
 LaTeX and should be put in the HTML, too.

 In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

 \begin_inset Note Comment
 status open

 \begin_layout Plain Layout
 a comment
 \end_layout

 \end_inset
 Sounds reasonable. Steve, are you willing to try out a test
 version? I can send it to you privately.

 Alex.
 Abso-Lutely, but I just had another thought. After seeing how LyXHTML 
 handled comments, I'm beginning to wonder if the metadata not already 
 provided in LyX (Title, Author and Date) should simply be put in a 
 tiny XML file.

 Doing it separately kinda sorta makes sense when you think about it. 
 In my opinion, the LyX file should always be about how it looks in 
 PDF, with another file(s) providing looks/metadata in a flowing text 
 eBook. Actually, it might end up with three files, one for Kindle, one 
 for iPad, and one for Nook, and one for Open ePad (yeah, I have 
 trouble counting :-).

 If you already have something that passes through comments, I'll be 
 glad to test it today or in the next few days. Such a thing is 
 probably a good thing in general. However, if you're doing it just for 
 this specific thing, I'm thinking maybe hold off until all of us give 
 it more thought.

 I'm most of the way through a post processor for eLyXer-derived HTML 
 files that turns them into everything needed to make a Kindle. My 
 script is ugly, probably crashy in other circumstances, limited in 
 what situations it can handle, featureless, and pre-pre-alpha, but 
 when I get it working it can at least serve as a platform for 
 discussions on how to do it right the next time.

 Thanks for eLyXer. When you're making a Kindle book, it's the coolest 
 thing since sliced cheese.


 SteveT

 Steve Litt
 Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
 http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

 As LyX now offers native HTML export,
 is there an equivalent to DocumentSettingsLaTeX preamble
 for raw HTML code in the document header?

Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

AddToHTMLPreamble
style type=text/css
// css commands here
/style
EndPreamble

You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

 Günter
 LyXHTML was much worse. I put in the following comment:

 ===
 ebook
 cover=”./bigtitle.jpg”
 publisher=”Troubleshooters.Com”
 ===

 Here was the output from LyXHTML:

 ==
 !-- class=note_commenta id='magicparlabel-41888' /
 ebook!-- Output Error: Closing tag `div' when other tags are open, 
 namely: --!-- Output Error: !-- --/!--!-- Output Error: 
 LyX_parsep_tag --/div

 div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41892' /
 cover=rdquo;./bigtitle.jpgrdquo;/div

 div class=plain_layouta id='magicparlabel-41899' /
 publisher=rdquo;Troubleshooters.Comrdquo;!-- Output Error: Tried to 
 close `!--' when tag was not open. Tag discarded. --!-- Output 
 Error: Tags still open in closeFontTags(). Probably not a problem,
 but you might want to check these tags: --!-- Output Error: div --
 !-- Output Error: No paragraph separation tag found in 
 endParagraph(). --/div
 ==

There's some bug here involving multi-paragraph comments. I'll sort it out.

 The other thing is, from my understanding, unlike eLyXer which enables 
 you to specify a .css file on the command line, the only way to 
 specify a .css file in LyX's native LyXHTML is to define it within the 
 layout file. 

A recent patch from Rob Oakes will change this, in the sense that the
CSS will be written to a separate file. You can then modify it at will,
or replace it completely, as you wish. There's no need to specify anything.

 First of all, in this book I have no layout file -- it's 
 document class Book plain and simple. 

Then you do have a layout file: book.layout. And what it is doing can be
modified in different ways: You can write a module that you load with
the file, or you can enter your custom layout information into Local
Layout. Presumably, you'd want to do it as a module in this sort of
case, for re-usability. Or, as I said, you can do CSS separately. It's
entirely up to you.

 But second of all, even if I 
 did, what I'd want is for the layout file to determine the PDF 
 appearance, with the .css determining the flowing text eBook 
 appearance.

There's a misunderstanding here. In the PDF case, what the layout file
determines is what LaTeX gets output. Then pdflatex (or whatever) gets
run on that file, and you get a PDF. In the XHTML case, the layout file
determines what CSS gets output. Then the browser (or whatever)
determines how the whole thing gets displayed. The LaTeX-oriented parts
of the layout file are inactive when XHTML is output, just as the
XHTML-oriented parts of the layout file are inactive when LaTeX is output.

So the layout controls what gets output in both cases. But of course the
CSS is what's determining how the eBook appears, but as the LaTeX
determines how the PDF appears.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alex Fernandez
Hi Steve,

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Steve Litt sl...@troubleshooters.com wrote:
 Abso-Lutely, but I just had another thought. After seeing how LyXHTML
 handled comments, I'm beginning to wonder if the metadata not already
 provided in LyX (Title, Author and Date) should simply be put in a
 tiny XML file.

 Doing it separately kinda sorta makes sense when you think about it.
 In my opinion, the LyX file should always be about how it looks in
 PDF, with another file(s) providing looks/metadata in a flowing text
 eBook. Actually, it might end up with three files, one for Kindle, one
 for iPad, and one for Nook, and one for Open ePad (yeah, I have
 trouble counting :-).

 If you already have something that passes through comments, I'll be
 glad to test it today or in the next few days. Such a thing is
 probably a good thing in general. However, if you're doing it just for
 this specific thing, I'm thinking maybe hold off until all of us give
 it more thought.

OK, I will wait to hear from you.

 I'm most of the way through a post processor for eLyXer-derived HTML
 files that turns them into everything needed to make a Kindle. My
 script is ugly, probably crashy in other circumstances, limited in
 what situations it can handle, featureless, and pre-pre-alpha, but
 when I get it working it can at least serve as a platform for
 discussions on how to do it right the next time.

Ideally, that post-processor should be integrated within eLyXer to
generate EPUB or Kindle documents. I would be glad to add new options:
  $ elyxer.py --epub input.lyx output.html
or, for Kindle:
  $ elyxer.py --kindle input.lyx output.azw
(if that is indeed the extension for Amazon Kindle). The problem I
found when I looked into supporting EPUB was the definition of the
format itself: the supposedly open validator rejected a lot of the
constructs which eLyXer uses in its output, but they worked fine in
e.g. Calibre to generate a full EPUB document.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPUB#Validation
Perhaps newer versions of the specification have improved in that respect.

 Thanks for eLyXer. When you're making a Kindle book, it's the coolest
 thing since sliced cheese.

Thanks :)  I have copied the eLyXer-users list, if you want to discuss
eLyXer-specific stuff we can continue the discussion over there.

Alex.


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?

Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is to 
build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. As more and more 
books are written to a flowable text reader, LyX will become a more 
and more obvious choice. The HTML post-processor I discussed is one 
very easy, very modular, and very unobtrusive way to write the same 
book to both PDF/paper and Kindle, at least to the degree that such a 
thing can be done and still read. Building books for Kindle, iPad and 
Nook will probably become one of LyX's main uses in the future.

On or off topic is a relative thing. I have absolutely no interest in 
Sweave or Lilypond but don't I call them offtopic, because people use 
them to output information via LyX.

I could move this discussion over to the eLyXer list, or maybe a list 
specifically about flowable text authoring, but understand that doing 
so will remove most LyX-listers from input into the eventual flowable 
text making techniques with LyX, and understand that debugging will be 
more complex as people have to reach across mailing lists to determine 
in whose fiefdom the problem resides.

SteveT


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Rob Oakes
I for one would like for the topic to remain here. I don't follow the 
discussion on the eLyXer list, but knowing what developments happen with this 
topic are useful for things I'm working on. Especially if whatever Steve and 
Alex create can be adapted to work with the native XHTML modifications I'm 
trying to make.

To move it in a new direction, what tags are most important to Kindle? In what 
ways could the native LyX output be refined (I can create layouts/modules that 
fix these for testing purposes)? Where does the current implementation cause 
problems and for what reasons? (I'm currently looking into the situations 
raised by Steve.)

I've been delving into various ePub resources and I'm cleaning up the HTML 
based on HTML5 best practices, but it would be useful to know where else I can 
focus my attention.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?
 Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is to 
 build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 

Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details of
the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alan L Tyree
On 07/12/11 09:41:13, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
  On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
  Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
  mailing list?
  Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is
 to 
  build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 
 
 Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details
 of
 the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?

No, but I don't think it is the same.

If LyX is to develop into a serious e-book editor, then this is a very 
LyX related discussion. Even users such as myself who are in no 
position to contribute directly to the development have an interest in 
how this develops. Mere users can eventually have an input into this 
development.

It is not just a discussion about converters or bugs. It relates to how 
LyX will look and behave in the future. I agree with Steve and others 
that LyX could become major tool for writing e-books. As such, the 
discussion doesn't seem to me to be off topic.

Cheers,
Alan

 
 Richard
 
 



-- 
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206  sip:172...@iptel.org




Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 05:55 PM, Alan L Tyree wrote:
 On 07/12/11 09:41:13, Richard Heck wrote:
 On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
 On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?
 Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is
 to 
 build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 

 Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details
 of the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?
 No, but I don't think it is the same.

 If LyX is to develop into a serious e-book editor, then this is a very 
 LyX related discussion. Even users such as myself who are in no 
 position to contribute directly to the development have an interest in 
 how this develops. Mere users can eventually have an input into this 
 development.

 It is not just a discussion about converters or bugs. It relates to how 
 LyX will look and behave in the future. I agree with Steve and others 
 that LyX could become major tool for writing e-books. As such, the 
 discussion doesn't seem to me to be off topic.

I agree with Steve, as well, that LyX could become such a tool. But that
is not what this discussion has been about. This discussion, as the
subject makes very clear, has been about elyxer, and about a very
specific question Steve had about it.

If people want to have a general discussion about how to make LyX a good
tool for writing e-books, then let's have that discussion. And let's
have it in such a way that it has something to do with LyX, which none
of this discussion so far has. Indeed, various of us have already been
having that discussion---but it is, frankly, a discussion for the devel
list, which many non-developers read and contribute to, for exactly the
reason you mention: because users' input is welcome and needed. This
list is for issues with LyX itself, or for questions about how to use
it, etc.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Guenter Milde
On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
> Hi Alex,

> I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished HTML 
> file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option for passing 
> through LyX comments.

> How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to convert 
> LyX comments to ? Comments would be an excellent 
> way to pass through eBook-only data, without it showing up in a book 
> printed from the same LyX file.

IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the LaTeX.

OTOH, Comments (Insert>Note>Comment) are put as comments in the LaTeX and
should be put in the HTML, too.

In the *.lyx file, comments look like:

\begin_inset Note Comment
status open

\begin_layout Plain Layout
a comment
\end_layout

\end_inset


> If it's too hard to do, or if there's not enough time to do it, I can 
> probably make a small program to scoop out the specific comment that 
> passes the eBook metadata, and give that information to the post-
> processor. The post-processor already adds pagefeeds to every  
> item in the HTML file and captures the Title, Author and Date but 
> doesn't print them.


As LyX now offers native HTML export,
is there an equivalent to Document>Settings>LaTeX preamble
for "raw" HTML code in the document header?

Günter



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alex Fernandez
Hi, Steve and Guenter,

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Guenter Milde  wrote:
> On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
>> Hi Alex,
>
>> I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished HTML
>> file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option for passing
>> through LyX comments.
>
>> How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to convert
>> LyX comments to ? Comments would be an excellent
>> way to pass through eBook-only data, without it showing up in a book
>> printed from the same LyX file.
>
> IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the LaTeX.
>
> OTOH, Comments (Insert>Note>Comment) are put as comments in the LaTeX and
> should be put in the HTML, too.
>
> In the *.lyx file, comments look like:
>
> \begin_inset Note Comment
> status open
>
> \begin_layout Plain Layout
> a comment
> \end_layout
>
> \end_inset

Sounds reasonable. Steve, are you willing to try out a test version? I
can send it to you privately.

Alex.


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
> On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
> > Hi Alex,
> > 
> > I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished
> > HTML file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option
> > for passing through LyX comments.
> > 
> > How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to
> > convert LyX comments to ? Comments would
> > be an excellent way to pass through eBook-only data, without it
> > showing up in a book printed from the same LyX file.
> 
> IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the
> LaTeX.
> 
> OTOH, Comments (Insert>Note>Comment) are put as comments in the
> LaTeX and should be put in the HTML, too.

They're not. What I used was (in 2.0), 

Insert->Note->Comment

I then ran eLyXer, and the resulting HTML file didn't contain the 
comment.


> 
> In the *.lyx file, comments look like:
> 
> \begin_inset Note Comment
> status open
> 
> \begin_layout Plain Layout
> a comment
> \end_layout
> 
> \end_inset

Yes, that's just what it looked like in Vim.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck

Can we please move elyxer discussion to the elyxer mailing list? This is
the LyX list.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:

> As LyX now offers native HTML export,
> is there an equivalent to Document>Settings>LaTeX preamble
> for "raw" HTML code in the document header?
> 
> Günter

LyXHTML was much worse. I put in the following comment:

===
ebook
cover=”./bigtitle.jpg”
publisher=”Troubleshooters.Com”
===

Here was the output from LyXHTML:

==



cover=./bigtitle.jpg


publisher=Troubleshooters.Com
==

The other thing is, from my understanding, unlike eLyXer which enables 
you to specify a .css file on the command line, the only way to 
specify a .css file in LyX's native LyXHTML is to define it within the 
layout file. First of all, in this book I have no layout file -- it's 
document class Book plain and simple. But second of all, even if I 
did, what I'd want is for the layout file to determine the PDF 
appearance, with the .css determining the flowing text eBook 
appearance.

Thanks

SteveT

Steve Litt
Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck

Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
mailing list?

On 12/06/2011 12:06 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 05:15:38 AM Alex Fernandez wrote:
>> Hi, Steve and Guenter,
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 10:46 AM, Guenter Milde  
> wrote:
>>> On 2011-12-06, Steve Litt wrote:
 Hi Alex,

 I found that my LyX comments don't get through to the finished
 HTML file, and eLyXer's Options class appears to have no option
 for passing through LyX comments.

 How difficult would it be to add code so there's an option to
 convert LyX comments to ? Comments would
 be an excellent way to pass through eBook-only data, without it
 showing up in a book printed from the same LyX file.
>>> IMO, LyX notes are just for LyX - they are also stripped from the
>>> LaTeX.
>>>
>>> OTOH, Comments (Insert>Note>Comment) are put as comments in the
>>> LaTeX and should be put in the HTML, too.
>>>
>>> In the *.lyx file, comments look like:
>>>
>>> \begin_inset Note Comment
>>> status open
>>>
>>> \begin_layout Plain Layout
>>> a comment
>>> \end_layout
>>>
>>> \end_inset
>> Sounds reasonable. Steve, are you willing to try out a test
>> version? I can send it to you privately.
>>
>> Alex.
> Abso-Lutely, but I just had another thought. After seeing how LyXHTML 
> handled comments, I'm beginning to wonder if the metadata not already 
> provided in LyX (Title, Author and Date) should simply be put in a 
> tiny XML file.
>
> Doing it separately kinda sorta makes sense when you think about it. 
> In my opinion, the LyX file should always be about how it looks in 
> PDF, with another file(s) providing looks/metadata in a flowing text 
> eBook. Actually, it might end up with three files, one for Kindle, one 
> for iPad, and one for Nook, and one for Open ePad (yeah, I have 
> trouble counting :-).
>
> If you already have something that passes through comments, I'll be 
> glad to test it today or in the next few days. Such a thing is 
> probably a good thing in general. However, if you're doing it just for 
> this specific thing, I'm thinking maybe hold off until all of us give 
> it more thought.
>
> I'm most of the way through a post processor for eLyXer-derived HTML 
> files that turns them into everything needed to make a Kindle. My 
> script is ugly, probably crashy in other circumstances, limited in 
> what situations it can handle, featureless, and pre-pre-alpha, but 
> when I get it working it can at least serve as a platform for 
> discussions on how to do it right the next time.
>
> Thanks for eLyXer. When you're making a Kindle book, it's the coolest 
> thing since sliced cheese.
>
>
> SteveT
>
> Steve Litt
> Author: The Key to Everyday Excellence
> http://www.troubleshooters.com/bookstore/key_excellence.htm
> Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/stevelitt



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 11:54 AM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 04:46:28 AM Guenter Milde wrote:
>
>> As LyX now offers native HTML export,
>> is there an equivalent to Document>Settings>LaTeX preamble
>> for "raw" HTML code in the document header?
>>
Code for the document header can be added via Local Layout, e.g.:

AddToHTMLPreamble

// css commands here

EndPreamble

You can put whatever you like there. JavaScript, meta tags, whatever.

>> Günter
> LyXHTML was much worse. I put in the following comment:
>
> ===
> ebook
> cover=”./bigtitle.jpg”
> publisher=”Troubleshooters.Com”
> ===
>
> Here was the output from LyXHTML:
>
> ==
> 
>
> 
> cover=./bigtitle.jpg
>
> 
> publisher=Troubleshooters.Com> 
> ==
>
There's some bug here involving multi-paragraph comments. I'll sort it out.

> The other thing is, from my understanding, unlike eLyXer which enables 
> you to specify a .css file on the command line, the only way to 
> specify a .css file in LyX's native LyXHTML is to define it within the 
> layout file. 
>
A recent patch from Rob Oakes will change this, in the sense that the
CSS will be written to a separate file. You can then modify it at will,
or replace it completely, as you wish. There's no need to specify anything.

> First of all, in this book I have no layout file -- it's 
> document class Book plain and simple. 
>
Then you do have a layout file: book.layout. And what it is doing can be
modified in different ways: You can write a module that you load with
the file, or you can enter your custom layout information into Local
Layout. Presumably, you'd want to do it as a module in this sort of
case, for re-usability. Or, as I said, you can do CSS separately. It's
entirely up to you.

> But second of all, even if I 
> did, what I'd want is for the layout file to determine the PDF 
> appearance, with the .css determining the flowing text eBook 
> appearance.
>
There's a misunderstanding here. In the PDF case, what the layout file
determines is what LaTeX gets output. Then pdflatex (or whatever) gets
run on that file, and you get a PDF. In the XHTML case, the layout file
determines what CSS gets output. Then the browser (or whatever)
determines how the whole thing gets displayed. The LaTeX-oriented parts
of the layout file are inactive when XHTML is output, just as the
XHTML-oriented parts of the layout file are inactive when LaTeX is output.

So the layout controls what gets output in both cases. But of course the
CSS is what's determining how the eBook appears, but as the LaTeX
determines how the PDF appears.

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alex Fernandez
Hi Steve,

On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:06 PM, Steve Litt  wrote:
> Abso-Lutely, but I just had another thought. After seeing how LyXHTML
> handled comments, I'm beginning to wonder if the metadata not already
> provided in LyX (Title, Author and Date) should simply be put in a
> tiny XML file.
>
> Doing it separately kinda sorta makes sense when you think about it.
> In my opinion, the LyX file should always be about how it looks in
> PDF, with another file(s) providing looks/metadata in a flowing text
> eBook. Actually, it might end up with three files, one for Kindle, one
> for iPad, and one for Nook, and one for Open ePad (yeah, I have
> trouble counting :-).
>
> If you already have something that passes through comments, I'll be
> glad to test it today or in the next few days. Such a thing is
> probably a good thing in general. However, if you're doing it just for
> this specific thing, I'm thinking maybe hold off until all of us give
> it more thought.

OK, I will wait to hear from you.

> I'm most of the way through a post processor for eLyXer-derived HTML
> files that turns them into everything needed to make a Kindle. My
> script is ugly, probably crashy in other circumstances, limited in
> what situations it can handle, featureless, and pre-pre-alpha, but
> when I get it working it can at least serve as a platform for
> discussions on how to do it right the next time.

Ideally, that post-processor should be integrated within eLyXer to
generate EPUB or Kindle documents. I would be glad to add new options:
  $ elyxer.py --epub input.lyx output.html
or, for Kindle:
  $ elyxer.py --kindle input.lyx output.azw
(if that is indeed the extension for Amazon Kindle). The problem I
found when I looked into supporting EPUB was the definition of the
format itself: the supposedly open validator rejected a lot of the
constructs which eLyXer uses in its output, but they worked fine in
e.g. Calibre to generate a full EPUB document.
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPUB#Validation
Perhaps newer versions of the specification have improved in that respect.

> Thanks for eLyXer. When you're making a Kindle book, it's the coolest
> thing since sliced cheese.

Thanks :)  I have copied the eLyXer-users list, if you want to discuss
eLyXer-specific stuff we can continue the discussion over there.

Alex.


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Steve Litt
On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
> Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
> mailing list?

Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is to 
build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. As more and more 
books are written to a flowable text reader, LyX will become a more 
and more obvious choice. The HTML post-processor I discussed is one 
very easy, very modular, and very unobtrusive way to write the same 
book to both PDF/paper and Kindle, at least to the degree that such a 
thing can be done and still read. Building books for Kindle, iPad and 
Nook will probably become one of LyX's main uses in the future.

On or off topic is a relative thing. I have absolutely no interest in 
Sweave or Lilypond but don't I call them offtopic, because people use 
them to output information via LyX.

I could move this discussion over to the eLyXer list, or maybe a list 
specifically about flowable text authoring, but understand that doing 
so will remove most LyX-listers from input into the eventual flowable 
text making techniques with LyX, and understand that debugging will be 
more complex as people have to reach across mailing lists to determine 
in whose fiefdom the problem resides.

SteveT


Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Rob Oakes
I for one would like for the topic to remain here. I don't follow the 
discussion on the eLyXer list, but knowing what developments happen with this 
topic are useful for things I'm working on. Especially if whatever Steve and 
Alex create can be adapted to work with the native XHTML modifications I'm 
trying to make.

To move it in a new direction, what tags are most important to Kindle? In what 
ways could the native LyX output be refined (I can create layouts/modules that 
fix these for testing purposes)? Where does the current implementation cause 
problems and for what reasons? (I'm currently looking into the situations 
raised by Steve.)

I've been delving into various ePub resources and I'm cleaning up the HTML 
based on HTML5 best practices, but it would be useful to know where else I can 
focus my attention.

Cheers,

Rob

Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
>> Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
>> mailing list?
> Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is to 
> build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 
>
Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details of
the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?

Richard



Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Alan L Tyree
On 07/12/11 09:41:13, Richard Heck wrote:
> On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
> > On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
> >> Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
> >> mailing list?
> > Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is
> to 
> > build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 
> >
> Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details
> of
> the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?

No, but I don't think it is the same.

If LyX is to develop into a serious e-book editor, then this is a very 
LyX related discussion. Even users such as myself who are in no 
position to contribute directly to the development have an interest in 
how this develops. "Mere" users can eventually have an input into this 
development.

It is not just a discussion about converters or bugs. It relates to how 
LyX will look and behave in the future. I agree with Steve and others 
that LyX could become major tool for writing e-books. As such, the 
discussion doesn't seem to me to be off topic.

Cheers,
Alan

> 
> Richard
> 
> 



-- 
Alan L Tyreehttp://www2.austlii.edu.au/~alan
Tel:  04 2748 6206  sip:172...@iptel.org




Re: Pass LyX comments through eLyXer?

2011-12-06 Thread Richard Heck
On 12/06/2011 05:55 PM, Alan L Tyree wrote:
> On 07/12/11 09:41:13, Richard Heck wrote:
>> On 12/06/2011 04:38 PM, Steve Litt wrote:
>>> On Tuesday, December 06, 2011 03:06:37 PM you wrote:
 Can I ask again that off-topic threads be moved to an appropriate
 mailing list?
>>> Unless it's the LyX project's position that LyX's only function is
>> to 
>>> build PDF and Docbook, then this is very ontopic. 
>>>
>> Do you think the LyX list is also good for discussion of the details
>> of the ps2pdf converter? Or for reporting bugs with it?
> No, but I don't think it is the same.
>
> If LyX is to develop into a serious e-book editor, then this is a very 
> LyX related discussion. Even users such as myself who are in no 
> position to contribute directly to the development have an interest in 
> how this develops. "Mere" users can eventually have an input into this 
> development.
>
> It is not just a discussion about converters or bugs. It relates to how 
> LyX will look and behave in the future. I agree with Steve and others 
> that LyX could become major tool for writing e-books. As such, the 
> discussion doesn't seem to me to be off topic.
>
I agree with Steve, as well, that LyX could become such a tool. But that
is not what this discussion has been about. This discussion, as the
subject makes very clear, has been about elyxer, and about a very
specific question Steve had about it.

If people want to have a general discussion about how to make LyX a good
tool for writing e-books, then let's have that discussion. And let's
have it in such a way that it has something to do with LyX, which none
of this discussion so far has. Indeed, various of us have already been
having that discussion---but it is, frankly, a discussion for the devel
list, which many non-developers read and contribute to, for exactly the
reason you mention: because users' input is welcome and needed. This
list is for issues with LyX itself, or for questions about how to use
it, etc.

Richard