Re: [M100] batteries...

[Chris Kmiec]

My understanding is that NiMH batteries don't leak like NiCD do, so even if
the battery itself doesn't last, the worst it will do is not work.

Chris

On Tue, Mar 20, 2018 at 9:06 PM, Kevin Becker <ke...@kevinbecker.org> wrote:

> I like this advice.  Having recently realized that the NiCD batteries I
> ordered ended up being NiMH, I'm also pretty dubious about their quality.
> I'm sure it'll be fine for years to come but probably not as long as the
> original which was still kicking and only just showing the barest signs of
> leakage, not even to the motherboard yet.  It actually makes me think that
> I should proactively assume the next owner will come across this little
> computer potentially long after I'm gone and it will have been in a box
> somewhere for years.  I wonder if it might help to put a small square of
> thin plastic , followed by a small square of some absorbent material like
> cardboard or paper, between the battery and the motherboard with two tiny
> slits for the battery terminals.  This might keep the leakage from doing
> any real damage somewhere down the line.
>
> I'm sure this is overthinking the problem (perhaps Scotch induced) but I
> like the idea of designing a solution that takes into account the
> inevitable failure somewhere down the line.
>
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Brian White <bw.al...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> nimh chemistry is ok for the circuit,
>>
>> but there is always still the separate issue that the cheapest no-name
>> manufactured ones are a risk simply because of unknown construction quality
>> and longevity. So, try to get Yausa or Varta or Panasonic etc, and
>> generally pay more than $5 per batt not $2 per batt.
>>
>> Or at least, if you get a no-name, just be aware of that and be prepared
>> to go back inside in a few years. Probably won't hurt the machine unless it
>> leaks, more likely simply not work for 30 years like the original did!
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:44 PM Chris Kmiec <ckmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Based on this thread (and the post by Fugu), can we agree that NiMH
>>> batteries are safe then? I just got a 6 pack of 80mAh NiMH batteries, and
>>> just wanted to make sure before I "outfit" all 6 of my 100/102s...
>>>
>>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Gregory McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> It works!  I just cleaned it a bit and worked out the gunk and it
>>>> started charging the battery and booting up :) yay!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.
>>>>>
>>>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Gregory
>>>>> McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
>>>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>>>
>>>>> yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think
>>>>>
>>>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Or it may need some contact cleaner.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of "John R.
>>>>>> Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com>
>>>>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
>>>>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> — John.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Steven Ranft]

Hi Kevin,


I replaced one of mine with a NiCad a while back, but I don't think the slow 
trickle charge provided by the M100 will cause any damage to the NiMH you got.


http://www.greenbatteries.com/nimh-battery-charger-faq/#NiCD charger for NiMH 
batteries

NiMH Battery Charger FAQ - 
greenbatteries.com<http://www.greenbatteries.com/nimh-battery-charger-faq/#NiCD>
www.greenbatteries.com
Frequently Asked Questions about NiMH and NiCD Battery Chargers [Note: this FAQ 
mostly addresses questions about chargers designed for NiMH or NiCD cell 
batteries.

And yes it was the Scotch   But I like the "battery diaper" you thought up.

It took over 30 years to get to the state it is in now... So in the year 2048 
it should be about the same, if you put a good new battery in...

But it could save a very rare (especially by then) piece of hardware some 
serious damage.

If it is going to be open anyhow, I would spend the extra 10 minutes.

Don't sweat the petty stuff...

Steve








Steve Ranft

Savage, MN



From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Kevin Becker 
<ke...@kevinbecker.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2018 9:06 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

I like this advice.  Having recently realized that the NiCD batteries I ordered 
ended up being NiMH, I'm also pretty dubious about their quality.  I'm sure 
it'll be fine for years to come but probably not as long as the original which 
was still kicking and only just showing the barest signs of leakage, not even 
to the motherboard yet.  It actually makes me think that I should proactively 
assume the next owner will come across this little computer potentially long 
after I'm gone and it will have been in a box somewhere for years.  I wonder if 
it might help to put a small square of thin plastic , followed by a small 
square of some absorbent material like cardboard or paper, between the battery 
and the motherboard with two tiny slits for the battery terminals.  This might 
keep the leakage from doing any real damage somewhere down the line.

I'm sure this is overthinking the problem (perhaps Scotch induced) but I like 
the idea of designing a solution that takes into account the inevitable failure 
somewhere down the line.

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Brian White 
<bw.al...@gmail.com<mailto:bw.al...@gmail.com>> wrote:
nimh chemistry is ok for the circuit,

but there is always still the separate issue that the cheapest no-name 
manufactured ones are a risk simply because of unknown construction quality and 
longevity. So, try to get Yausa or Varta or Panasonic etc, and generally pay 
more than $5 per batt not $2 per batt.

Or at least, if you get a no-name, just be aware of that and be prepared to go 
back inside in a few years. Probably won't hurt the machine unless it leaks, 
more likely simply not work for 30 years like the original did!

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:44 PM Chris Kmiec 
<ckmi...@gmail.com<mailto:ckmi...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Based on this thread (and the post by Fugu), can we agree that NiMH batteries 
are safe then? I just got a 6 pack of 80mAh NiMH batteries, and just wanted to 
make sure before I "outfit" all 6 of my 100/102s...

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Gregory McGill 
<arcadeshop...@gmail.com<mailto:arcadeshop...@gmail.com>> wrote:
It works!  I just cleaned it a bit and worked out the gunk and it started 
charging the battery and booting up :) yay!



On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Fugu ME100 
<b4me...@hotmail.com<mailto:b4me...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.

From: M100 
<m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of Gregory McGill 
<arcadeshop...@gmail.com<mailto:arcadeshop...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 
<b4me...@hotmail.com<mailto:b4me...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Or it may need some contact cleaner.

From: M100 
<m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of "John R. Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com<mailto:jho...@pobox.com>>
Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?

:-)

— John.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Kevin Becker]

I like this advice.  Having recently realized that the NiCD batteries I
ordered ended up being NiMH, I'm also pretty dubious about their quality.
I'm sure it'll be fine for years to come but probably not as long as the
original which was still kicking and only just showing the barest signs of
leakage, not even to the motherboard yet.  It actually makes me think that
I should proactively assume the next owner will come across this little
computer potentially long after I'm gone and it will have been in a box
somewhere for years.  I wonder if it might help to put a small square of
thin plastic , followed by a small square of some absorbent material like
cardboard or paper, between the battery and the motherboard with two tiny
slits for the battery terminals.  This might keep the leakage from doing
any real damage somewhere down the line.

I'm sure this is overthinking the problem (perhaps Scotch induced) but I
like the idea of designing a solution that takes into account the
inevitable failure somewhere down the line.

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018 at 11:52 PM, Brian White <bw.al...@gmail.com> wrote:

> nimh chemistry is ok for the circuit,
>
> but there is always still the separate issue that the cheapest no-name
> manufactured ones are a risk simply because of unknown construction quality
> and longevity. So, try to get Yausa or Varta or Panasonic etc, and
> generally pay more than $5 per batt not $2 per batt.
>
> Or at least, if you get a no-name, just be aware of that and be prepared
> to go back inside in a few years. Probably won't hurt the machine unless it
> leaks, more likely simply not work for 30 years like the original did!
>
> On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:44 PM Chris Kmiec <ckmi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Based on this thread (and the post by Fugu), can we agree that NiMH
>> batteries are safe then? I just got a 6 pack of 80mAh NiMH batteries, and
>> just wanted to make sure before I "outfit" all 6 of my 100/102s...
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Gregory McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It works!  I just cleaned it a bit and worked out the gunk and it
>>> started charging the battery and booting up :) yay!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.
>>>>
>>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Gregory
>>>> McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
>>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
>>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>>
>>>> yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Or it may need some contact cleaner.
>>>>>
>>>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of "John R.
>>>>> Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com>
>>>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
>>>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>>>
>>>>> I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?
>>>>>
>>>>> :-)
>>>>>
>>>>> — John.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Brian White]

nimh chemistry is ok for the circuit,

but there is always still the separate issue that the cheapest no-name
manufactured ones are a risk simply because of unknown construction quality
and longevity. So, try to get Yausa or Varta or Panasonic etc, and
generally pay more than $5 per batt not $2 per batt.

Or at least, if you get a no-name, just be aware of that and be prepared to
go back inside in a few years. Probably won't hurt the machine unless it
leaks, more likely simply not work for 30 years like the original did!

On Mon, Mar 19, 2018, 10:44 PM Chris Kmiec <ckmi...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Based on this thread (and the post by Fugu), can we agree that NiMH
> batteries are safe then? I just got a 6 pack of 80mAh NiMH batteries, and
> just wanted to make sure before I "outfit" all 6 of my 100/102s...
>
> On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Gregory McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> It works!  I just cleaned it a bit and worked out the gunk and it started
>> charging the battery and booting up :) yay!
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.
>>>
>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Gregory
>>> McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>
>>> yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think
>>>
>>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Or it may need some contact cleaner.
>>>>
>>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of "John R.
>>>> Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com>
>>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
>>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>>
>>>> I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?
>>>>
>>>> :-)
>>>>
>>>> — John.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Chris Kmiec]

Based on this thread (and the post by Fugu), can we agree that NiMH
batteries are safe then? I just got a 6 pack of 80mAh NiMH batteries, and
just wanted to make sure before I "outfit" all 6 of my 100/102s...

On Sat, Mar 17, 2018 at 4:37 PM, Gregory McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> It works!  I just cleaned it a bit and worked out the gunk and it started
> charging the battery and booting up :) yay!
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.
>>
>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Gregory
>> McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>
>> yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Or it may need some contact cleaner.
>>>
>>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of "John R.
>>> Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com>
>>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
>>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>>
>>> I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?
>>>
>>> :-)
>>>
>>> — John.
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Gregory McGill]

It works!  I just cleaned it a bit and worked out the gunk and it started
charging the battery and booting up :) yay!



On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 3:26 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.
>
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of Gregory
> McGill <arcadeshop...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>
> yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think
>
> On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Or it may need some contact cleaner.
>>
>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of "John R.
>> Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com>
>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>
>> I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> — John.
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Fugu ME100]

I would try contact cleaner first that switch will be hard to replace.

From: M100 
<m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of Gregory McGill 
<arcadeshop...@gmail.com<mailto:arcadeshop...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 2:44 PM
To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 
<b4me...@hotmail.com<mailto:b4me...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Or it may need some contact cleaner.

From: M100 
<m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of "John R. Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com<mailto:jho...@pobox.com>>
Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?

:-)

— John.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Gregory McGill]

yeah It either needs cleaning or replaced I think

On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Or it may need some contact cleaner.
>
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of "John R.
> Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com>
> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Date: Thursday, March 15, 2018 at 12:01 PM
> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>
> I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?
>
> :-)
>
> — John.
>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[John R. Hogerhuis]

I assume the “memory power” switch is turned on?

:-)

— John.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Gregory McGill]

Ok I got my new battery installed and it seems to be not getting power from
the external to charge, i followed the external voltage to next to the
switch.. any gotchas?

Greg

On Tue, Mar 6, 2018 at 11:01 PM, Gregory McGill 
wrote:

> so I decided to take apart my m100 that has 8k of ram to see what's in
> there and what I find is acid it looks like it may have not left the
> battery just yet so snipped that thing out of there and cleaned up with
> some vinegar etc..
>
> need the battery source now :)  also is there a ram module source since we
> can't get quads?
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Jonathan Yuen]

Some countries don't allow sale of NiCd batteries for environmental reasons 
(Cadmium.).  Like the one I live in.

Jonathan

jonathan.y...@mykopat.slu.se

Från: M100 [m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] för Mike Stein 
[mhs.st...@gmail.com]
Skickat: den 12 mars 2018 22:29
Till: m...@bitchin100.com
Ämne: Re: [M100] batteries...

Agreed.

There are some differences between NiCd and NiMH charging recommendations, but 
according to the Panasonic literature the standby Trickle charging currents are 
exactly the same.

m
- Original Message -
From: Fugu ME100<mailto:b4me...@hotmail.com>
To: m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>
Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

Where is that stated about Trickle Charging,  I don’t see it in the M102 manual?

I can find the section on pg 1-7 where it says "Charging current 1.2mA (typ)".  
 Which is in line with an average current however it will vary considerably 
depending on charge state of the battery.  Fully charged the current will be 
300uA it cannot be more.

So the impact will be well below any but the worst quality batteries – which 
may have other issues :)

From: M100 
<m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com<mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of George Michael Rimakis 
<grima...@gmail.com<mailto:grima...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 12:11 PM
To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

The M102 service manual says the trickle charge is at 1.2mA, and some batteries 
may not be as tolerant.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Fugu ME100 
<b4me...@hotmail.com<mailto:b4me...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
I swapped to NiMH for my replacements mainly because NiCd was hard to find.  
Before doing so I did some research on manufacturer recommendations.  This doc 
is pretty good 
http://data.energizer.com/pdfs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf<https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.energizer.com%2Fpdfs%2Fnickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf=02%7C01%7C%7C12fc6249c1734290265408d588556cc2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636564822832910764=UIq70Tlu4EJ9vC%2BbMgbj6VduM%2F1%2BWfZJ5KjwHUpPCn0%3D=0>
  If you look at the Recommended Charging Rates section (pg 11) it gives this 
recommendation on trickle charging:

'Finally a maintenance (or trickle) charge rate of less than 0.025C (C/40) is 
recommended. The use of very small trickle charges is preferred to reduce the 
negative effects overcharging.’

The NiMH and NiCd self-discharge very badly so if the trickle charge < self 
discharge rate things should be fine.

Looking at the charge circuit on the M100 it is basically a series diode, 
resistor (1.8K) and the battery.  If the battery is at 0V the max current is 
~2mA,  at full charge (3.7V) the current is ~300uA.   Based on the 
recommendations of Energizer the charge should be mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com>> 
on behalf of George Michael Rimakis 
<grima...@gmail.com<mailto:grima...@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM
To: <m...@bitchin100.com<mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>>
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can tolerate is 
a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson 
<jim.ander...@kpu.ca<mailto:jim.ander...@kpu.ca>> wrote:
> -Original Message-
>
> This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
> think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
> replaced under the battery door.

I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself 
struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, and 
when they were done...







jim

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Brian White]

Plus when you search for the original part number or generic size code, you
get nimh batteries that claim to be drop-in replacements for the
size/form/terminals code.
They can't know the details of every possible circuit the original parts
were used in, and yet they feel safe saying that the new nimh battery is a
replacement, because what they DO know is the exact behavior and specs of
the original batteries, and of the new battery, and implies that any
charging circuit that was correct for the original nicd part is also at
least within tolerances for the new part.


On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 5:29 PM, Mike Stein <mhs.st...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Agreed.
>
> There are some differences between NiCd and NiMH charging recommendations,
> but according to the Panasonic literature the standby* Trickle charging*
> currents are exactly the same.
>
> m
>
> - Original Message -
> *From:* Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com>
> *To:* m...@bitchin100.com
> *Sent:* Monday, March 12, 2018 4:21 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [M100] batteries...
>
> Where is that stated about Trickle Charging,  I don’t see it in the M102
> manual?
>
> I can find the section on pg 1-7 where it says "Charging current 1.2mA
> (typ)".   Which is in line with an average current however it will vary
> considerably depending on charge state of the battery.  Fully charged the
> current will be 300uA it cannot be more.
>
> So the impact will be well below any but the worst quality batteries – which
> may have other issues :)
>
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of George
> Michael Rimakis <grima...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 12:11 PM
> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>
> The M102 service manual says the trickle charge is at 1.2mA, and some
> batteries may not be as tolerant.
>
> On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I swapped to NiMH for my replacements mainly because NiCd was hard to
>> find.  Before doing so I did some research on manufacturer
>> recommendations.  This doc is pretty good http://data.energizer.com
>> /pdfs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf
>> <https://eur01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fdata.energizer.com%2Fpdfs%2Fnickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf=02%7C01%7C%7C12fc6249c1734290265408d588556cc2%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435%7C1%7C0%7C636564822832910764=UIq70Tlu4EJ9vC%2BbMgbj6VduM%2F1%2BWfZJ5KjwHUpPCn0%3D=0>
>> If you look at the Recommended Charging Rates section (pg 11) it gives
>> this recommendation on trickle charging:
>>
>> '*Finally a maintenance (or trickle) charge rate of less than
>> 0.025C (C/40) is recommended. The use of very small trickle charges is
>> preferred to reduce the negative effects **overcharging*.’
>>
>> The NiMH and NiCd self-discharge very badly so if the trickle charge <
>> self discharge rate things should be fine.
>>
>> Looking at the charge circuit on the M100 it is basically a series diode,
>> resistor (1.8K) and the battery.  If the battery is at 0V the max current
>> is ~2mA,  at full charge (3.7V) the current is ~300uA.   Based on the
>> recommendations of Energizer the charge should be > charge. The battery is ~60mAh, which gives ~1.5mA trickle or maintenance
>> charge well above that produced in the M100, in fact the NiMH might sell
>> discharge at that rate.   So I went ahead and updated the batteries.
>>
>> If you trickle charge at very high rates then NiMH might fail earlier but
>> so too would NiCd.   The initial charge might be slower for NiMH compared
>> to NiCd but that is not really an issue in this application it is merely
>> acting as a backup battery.
>>
>>
>>
>> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of George
>> Michael Rimakis <grima...@gmail.com>
>> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>> Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM
>> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
>> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>>
>> The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can
>> tolerate is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.
>>
>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson <jim.ander...@kpu.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> > -Original Message-
>>> >
>>> > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
>>> > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
>>> > replaced under the battery door.
>>>
>>> I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find
>>> myself struggling to remember later which machines have which things
>>> replaced, and when they were done...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> jim
>>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Mike Stein]

Tandy Service ManualAgreed.

There are some differences between NiCd and NiMH charging recommendations, but 
according to the Panasonic literature the standby Trickle charging currents are 
exactly the same.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: Fugu ME100 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Monday, March 12, 2018 4:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...


  Where is that stated about Trickle Charging,  I don’t see it in the M102 
manual?


  I can find the section on pg 1-7 where it says "Charging current 1.2mA 
(typ)".   Which is in line with an average current however it will vary 
considerably depending on charge state of the battery.  Fully charged the 
current will be 300uA it cannot be more.   


  So the impact will be well below any but the worst quality batteries – which 
may have other issues :) 


  From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of George Michael 
Rimakis <grima...@gmail.com>
  Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
  Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 12:11 PM
  To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
  Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...



The M102 service manual says the trickle charge is at 1.2mA, and some 
batteries may not be as tolerant.


On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:

  I swapped to NiMH for my replacements mainly because NiCd was hard to 
find.  Before doing so I did some research on manufacturer recommendations.  
This doc is pretty good 
http://data.energizer.com/pdfs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf  If you look at 
the Recommended Charging Rates section (pg 11) it gives this recommendation on 
trickle charging:


  'Finally a maintenance (or trickle) charge rate of less than 0.025C 
(C/40) is recommended. The use of very small trickle charges is preferred to 
reduce the negative effects overcharging.’


  The NiMH and NiCd self-discharge very badly so if the trickle charge < 
self discharge rate things should be fine.  


  Looking at the charge circuit on the M100 it is basically a series diode, 
resistor (1.8K) and the battery.  If the battery is at 0V the max current is 
~2mA,  at full charge (3.7V) the current is ~300uA.   Based on the 
recommendations of Energizer the charge should be  on behalf of George 
Michael Rimakis <grima...@gmail.com>
  Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
  Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM
      To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
  Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...



The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can 
tolerate is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.


On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson <jim.ander...@kpu.ca> 
wrote:

  > -Original Message-
  >
  > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad 
I
  > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it 
was
  > replaced under the battery door.

  I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find 
myself struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, 
and when they were done...







  jim

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Gregory McGill]

thanks for all that I was concerned about replacing the batteries in my 100
until I read this

Greg

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 12:54 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I swapped to NiMH for my replacements mainly because NiCd was hard to
> find.  Before doing so I did some research on manufacturer
> recommendations.  This doc is pretty good http://data.energizer.
> com/pdfs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf  If you look at the Recommended
> Charging Rates section (pg 11) it gives this recommendation on trickle
> charging:
>
> '*Finally a maintenance (or trickle) charge rate of less than
> 0.025C (C/40) is recommended. The use of very small trickle charges is
> preferred to reduce the negative effects **overcharging*.’
>
> The NiMH and NiCd self-discharge very badly so if the trickle charge <
> self discharge rate things should be fine.
>
> Looking at the charge circuit on the M100 it is basically a series diode,
> resistor (1.8K) and the battery.  If the battery is at 0V the max current
> is ~2mA,  at full charge (3.7V) the current is ~300uA.   Based on the
> recommendations of Energizer the charge should be  charge. The battery is ~60mAh, which gives ~1.5mA trickle or maintenance
> charge well above that produced in the M100, in fact the NiMH might sell
> discharge at that rate.   So I went ahead and updated the batteries.
>
> If you trickle charge at very high rates then NiMH might fail earlier but
> so too would NiCd.   The initial charge might be slower for NiMH compared
> to NiCd but that is not really an issue in this application it is merely
> acting as a backup battery.
>
>
>
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of George
> Michael Rimakis <grima...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM
> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>
> The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can
> tolerate is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson <jim.ander...@kpu.ca> wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> >
>> > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
>> > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
>> > replaced under the battery door.
>>
>> I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself
>> struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, and
>> when they were done...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> jim
>>
>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[George Michael Rimakis]

The M102 service manual says the trickle charge is at 1.2mA, and some
batteries may not be as tolerant.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 3:54 PM, Fugu ME100 <b4me...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I swapped to NiMH for my replacements mainly because NiCd was hard to
> find.  Before doing so I did some research on manufacturer
> recommendations.  This doc is pretty good http://data.energizer.
> com/pdfs/nickelmetalhydride_appman.pdf  If you look at the Recommended
> Charging Rates section (pg 11) it gives this recommendation on trickle
> charging:
>
> '*Finally a maintenance (or trickle) charge rate of less than
> 0.025C (C/40) is recommended. The use of very small trickle charges is
> preferred to reduce the negative effects **overcharging*.’
>
> The NiMH and NiCd self-discharge very badly so if the trickle charge <
> self discharge rate things should be fine.
>
> Looking at the charge circuit on the M100 it is basically a series diode,
> resistor (1.8K) and the battery.  If the battery is at 0V the max current
> is ~2mA,  at full charge (3.7V) the current is ~300uA.   Based on the
> recommendations of Energizer the charge should be  charge. The battery is ~60mAh, which gives ~1.5mA trickle or maintenance
> charge well above that produced in the M100, in fact the NiMH might sell
> discharge at that rate.   So I went ahead and updated the batteries.
>
> If you trickle charge at very high rates then NiMH might fail earlier but
> so too would NiCd.   The initial charge might be slower for NiMH compared
> to NiCd but that is not really an issue in this application it is merely
> acting as a backup battery.
>
>
>
> From: M100 <m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com> on behalf of George
> Michael Rimakis <grima...@gmail.com>
> Reply-To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Date: Monday, March 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM
> To: <m...@bitchin100.com>
> Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...
>
> The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can
> tolerate is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson <jim.ander...@kpu.ca> wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> >
>> > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
>> > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
>> > replaced under the battery door.
>>
>> I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself
>> struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, and
>> when they were done...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> jim
>>
>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Josh Malone]

> Most manufacturers advise against trickle-charging NiMH

>> The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can tolerate
>> is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.

Oh - right. This is why I haven't replaced my battery yet: no clear
consensus on what's the appropriate replacement part. I had difficulty
finding NiCd cells -- they were all NiMH.

Given the likelihood of receiving an NiMH regardless of what I order,
I'm thinking about joining the "No battery" camp with my 102.

-Josh

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Kevin Becker]

My replacement battery specifically said NiCd when I ordered it.  I never
even looked at the battery when I installed it, but coincidentally just
this past weekend I happened to look closely at the 2nd one (it came in a 2
pack) and noticed it was NiMH not NiCd.  I was planning to to some research
to see what difference it might make.

On Mon, Mar 12, 2018 at 2:47 PM, John Gardner  wrote:

> Most manufacturers advise against trickle-charging NiMH
>
>  ...
>  .
>
> On 3/12/18, George Michael Rimakis  wrote:
> > The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can
> tolerate
> > is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.
> >
> > On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson 
> wrote:
> >
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> >
> >> > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
> >> > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it
> was
> >> > replaced under the battery door.
> >>
> >> I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find
> myself
> >> struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced,
> >> and
> >> when they were done...
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> jim
> >>
> >
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[John Gardner]

Most manufacturers advise against trickle-charging NiMH

 ...
 .

On 3/12/18, George Michael Rimakis  wrote:
> The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can tolerate
> is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:
>
>> > -Original Message-
>> >
>> > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
>> > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
>> > replaced under the battery door.
>>
>> I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself
>> struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced,
>> and
>> when they were done...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> jim
>>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[George Michael Rimakis]

The thing about NiMH, is the level of trickle charge that they can tolerate
is a bit less than NiCD. Might not be good in the long run.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 5:00 PM, Jim Anderson  wrote:

> > -Original Message-
> >
> > This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
> > think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
> > replaced under the battery door.
>
> I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself
> struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, and
> when they were done...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> jim
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Jim Anderson]

> -Original Message-
> 
> This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I
> think I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was
> replaced under the battery door.

I like to do this anyway (and not just with m100s), because I find myself 
struggling to remember later which machines have which things replaced, and 
when they were done...







jim

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Brian White]

I wonder if nimh leak the way nicd do eventually? My replacement batteries
are all nimh instead of the original nicd.

Or, if a new nimh or nicd is actually certain to leak in 20 or 30 years
just because the original ones did? Maybe better tech means they won't
leak? Or maybe the opposite, maybe modern cheapness means they will leak in
5 years.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:43 PM, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Brian White  wrote:
>
>>
>> It's arguable both ways though. You could say that by removing the
>> battery, you are removing all possibility of it leaking an corroding the
>> motherboard in the future unless someone goes out of their way to add a
>> battery back in, but then if they do that, then it won't leak on them
>> without their knowing it. You could say this is actually the best most
>> prophilactic practice. Most random new ebay buyers are currently at risk of
>> batteries leaking all by itself without their doing anything to cause it
>> and without their knowing anything about it. That's even true of a new
>> replacement battery, just less so or delayed a little further in the future.
>>
>>
> Funny I was thinking, WITHOUT the battery would it make it likely  that
> the next owner would think it's broken and throw it away?
>
> But actually, without the battery in, it probably removes the "storage
> dysfunction" behavior that Model T's exhibit when you first try to use them
> after removing the mothballs. That behavior causes laymen to think that the
> computer is broken.
>
> So in some ways it would make it less likely to get tossed in the garbage.
>
> Still think that it's best to replace the nicd (and mark the date of
> replacement somewhere on the unit).
>
> Too bad the nicd isn't placed in a user serviceable area.
>
> -- John.
>



-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Josh Malone]

I really need to replace my nicad. Thanks for the reminder thread.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 1:20 PM, Brian White  wrote:

>
> It's arguable both ways though. You could say that by removing the
> battery, you are removing all possibility of it leaking an corroding the
> motherboard in the future unless someone goes out of their way to add a
> battery back in, but then if they do that, then it won't leak on them
> without their knowing it. You could say this is actually the best most
> prophilactic practice. Most random new ebay buyers are currently at risk of
> batteries leaking all by itself without their doing anything to cause it
> and without their knowing anything about it. That's even true of a new
> replacement battery, just less so or delayed a little further in the future.
>
>
Funny I was thinking, WITHOUT the battery would it make it likely  that the
next owner would think it's broken and throw it away?

But actually, without the battery in, it probably removes the "storage
dysfunction" behavior that Model T's exhibit when you first try to use them
after removing the mothballs. That behavior causes laymen to think that the
computer is broken.

So in some ways it would make it less likely to get tossed in the garbage.

Still think that it's best to replace the nicd (and mark the date of
replacement somewhere on the unit).

Too bad the nicd isn't placed in a user serviceable area.

-- John.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Kevin Becker]

This brings up an interesting point.  Having just replaced my NiCad I think
I'm going to use my label maker to leave a note about when it was replaced
under the battery door.


On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Brian White  wrote:

> I meant to say, the only harm it does is, it harms the next owner, in that
> they may or may not like the idea that their M100 has been modified in this
> way.​
>
> It's arguable both ways though. You could say that by removing the
> battery, you are removing all possibility of it leaking an corroding the
> motherboard in the future unless someone goes out of their way to add a
> battery back in, but then if they do that, then it won't leak on them
> without their knowing it. You could say this is actually the best most
> prophilactic practice. Most random new ebay buyers are currently at risk of
> batteries leaking all by itself without their doing anything to cause it
> and without their knowing anything about it. That's even true of a new
> replacement battery, just less so or delayed a little further in the future.
>
> I can't be religious on this myself in either direction, keeping a battery
> or removing. Because I have put new batteries in all mine, and I have even
> done worse. I have desoldered the original dip28 sockets for the original
> roms in order to install the figtronix plcc socket main rom adapter board.
> I did preserve the original sockets so I can still put everything back, but
> at minimum the pcb still shows the signs of desoldering and soldering. So,
> I've already hacked on my machines more than their next owners would
> probably like. But I can still recognize that it's a consideration.
>
> --
> bkw
>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Brian White]

I meant to say, the only harm it does is, it harms the next owner, in that
they may or may not like the idea that their M100 has been modified in this
way.​

It's arguable both ways though. You could say that by removing the battery,
you are removing all possibility of it leaking an corroding the motherboard
in the future unless someone goes out of their way to add a battery back
in, but then if they do that, then it won't leak on them without their
knowing it. You could say this is actually the best most prophilactic
practice. Most random new ebay buyers are currently at risk of batteries
leaking all by itself without their doing anything to cause it and without
their knowing anything about it. That's even true of a new replacement
battery, just less so or delayed a little further in the future.

I can't be religious on this myself in either direction, keeping a battery
or removing. Because I have put new batteries in all mine, and I have even
done worse. I have desoldered the original dip28 sockets for the original
roms in order to install the figtronix plcc socket main rom adapter board.
I did preserve the original sockets so I can still put everything back, but
at minimum the pcb still shows the signs of desoldering and soldering. So,
I've already hacked on my machines more than their next owners would
probably like. But I can still recognize that it's a consideration.

-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Kurt McCullum]

A bit of a story behind it. I intended to replace the battery with a super cap 
like I did with my 102 and NEC. But the 200 power switch  didn’t like it and 
the unit would never turn off.  At that point I opted to just take it out since 
the case on the 200 is not easy to work with. It sits on my desk hooked up to 
an AC adapter 99.9% of the time so the AA batteries are really only there for 
when I unplug it. If I was traveling around with it then I would definitely put 
a battery in it. The super caps in the others have been a good replacement, 
though I doubt they would hold charge nearly as long as the real thing. I’ve 
tested it a few days and that was all I needed. I agree with John though, 
having backup power is ideal. 

 

Kurt

 

From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Mike Stein
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 1:05 PM
To: m...@bitchin100.com
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

 

Just curious: why?

 

A good quality replacement would probably last at least another ten years.

 

m

- Original Message - 

From: Kurt McCullum <mailto:kurt.mccul...@att.net>  

To: m...@bitchin100.com <mailto:m...@bitchin100.com>  

Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 10:07 AM

Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

 

I run my 200 without a backup battery. It doesn’t hurt anything to run that 
way. But you have to be careful not to lose memory contents when changing 
batteries. I keep mine plugged into the AC adapter when I do. Just not as easy 
as with a backup battery.

 

Kurt

 

From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Chris Kmiec
Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 2:34 AM
To: m...@bitchin100.com <mailto:m...@bitchin100.com> 
Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

 

Sorry, I meant why not just remove it. That's what I did with all my Tandys.

 

On Mar 8, 2018 9:10 PM, "John R. Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com 
<mailto:jho...@pobox.com> > wrote:

The reason for replacing the internal nicd is that they’re 20+ years old.  

 

They are in the process of failing and leaking corrosive material on the 
printed circuit board damaging it. 

 

— John. 

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Mike Stein]

Just curious: why?

A good quality replacement would probably last at least another ten years.

m
  - Original Message - 
  From: Kurt McCullum 
  To: m...@bitchin100.com 
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 10:07 AM
  Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...


  I run my 200 without a backup battery. It doesn’t hurt anything to run that 
way. But you have to be careful not to lose memory contents when changing 
batteries. I keep mine plugged into the AC adapter when I do. Just not as easy 
as with a backup battery.

   

  Kurt

   

  From: M100 [mailto:m100-boun...@lists.bitchin100.com] On Behalf Of Chris Kmiec
  Sent: Friday, March 09, 2018 2:34 AM
  To: m...@bitchin100.com
  Subject: Re: [M100] batteries...

   

  Sorry, I meant why not just remove it. That's what I did with all my Tandys.

   

  On Mar 8, 2018 9:10 PM, "John R. Hogerhuis" <jho...@pobox.com> wrote:

The reason for replacing the internal nicd is that they’re 20+ years old.  

 

They are in the process of failing and leaking corrosive material on the 
printed circuit board damaging it. 

 

— John. 

Re: [M100] batteries...

[John R. Hogerhuis]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 12:13 PM Brian White  wrote:

> Only to the next owner.
>
>
Didn’t quite get that. But if it seems I’m advocating for removing the
nicd, definitely not.

— John.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Brian White]

Only to the next owner.

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 1:28 PM, Earl Evans  wrote:

>
>
> On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:18 AM, John R. Hogerhuis 
> wrote:
>
>>
>> But maybe with REX, doing without the nicd Is ok since you can always
>> quickly restore a backup.
>>
>> — John.
>>
>
> ​I do have a REX, and would be happier just removing the NiCad. Would
> there be any harm in doing this, other than potential data loss when a
> battery change is required?
>
> - Earl
> ​
>
>


-- 
bkw

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Earl Evans]

On Fri, Mar 9, 2018 at 9:18 AM, John R. Hogerhuis  wrote:

>
> But maybe with REX, doing without the nicd Is ok since you can always
> quickly restore a backup.
>
> — John.
>

​I do have a REX, and would be happier just removing the NiCad. Would there
be any harm in doing this, other than potential data loss when a battery
change is required?

- Earl
​

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Chris Kmiec]

Sorry, I meant why not just remove it. That's what I did with all my Tandys.

On Mar 8, 2018 9:10 PM, "John R. Hogerhuis"  wrote:

> The reason for replacing the internal nicd is that they’re 20+ years old.
>
> They are in the process of failing and leaking corrosive material on the
> printed circuit board damaging it.
>
> — John.
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[John R. Hogerhuis]

The reason for replacing the internal nicd is that they’re 20+ years old.

They are in the process of failing and leaking corrosive material on the
printed circuit board damaging it.

— John.

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Chris Kmiec]

Besides not having a backup if your main batteries suddenly go bad, is
there any other reason to replace the battery? I have REX, and I have not
replaced my backup battery. Just wanted to make sure I'm actually doing any
harm?


On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 12:00 PM, Gregory McGill 
wrote:

> I found them at jameco (batteries)
>
> Greg
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 6:14 AM, Kevin Becker 
> wrote:
>
>> I recently replaced mine with a battery from eBay.  I checked my history
>> and the seller no longer has them but if you search for something like
>> "60mAh 3.6v ni-cd button cell tab" you should find a few suitable
>> replacements.  I know lots of people use super capacitors instead but I
>> don't have any experience with that.
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:01 AM, Gregory McGill 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> so I decided to take apart my m100 that has 8k of ram to see what's in
>>> there and what I find is acid it looks like it may have not left the
>>> battery just yet so snipped that thing out of there and cleaned up with
>>> some vinegar etc..
>>>
>>> need the battery source now :)  also is there a ram module source since
>>> we can't get quads?
>>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Gregory McGill]

I found them at jameco (batteries)

Greg

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 6:14 AM, Kevin Becker  wrote:

> I recently replaced mine with a battery from eBay.  I checked my history
> and the seller no longer has them but if you search for something like
> "60mAh 3.6v ni-cd button cell tab" you should find a few suitable
> replacements.  I know lots of people use super capacitors instead but I
> don't have any experience with that.
>
> On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:01 AM, Gregory McGill 
> wrote:
>
>> so I decided to take apart my m100 that has 8k of ram to see what's in
>> there and what I find is acid it looks like it may have not left the
>> battery just yet so snipped that thing out of there and cleaned up with
>> some vinegar etc..
>>
>> need the battery source now :)  also is there a ram module source since
>> we can't get quads?
>>
>
>

Re: [M100] batteries...

[Kevin Becker]

I recently replaced mine with a battery from eBay.  I checked my history
and the seller no longer has them but if you search for something like
"60mAh 3.6v ni-cd button cell tab" you should find a few suitable
replacements.  I know lots of people use super capacitors instead but I
don't have any experience with that.

On Wed, Mar 7, 2018 at 2:01 AM, Gregory McGill 
wrote:

> so I decided to take apart my m100 that has 8k of ram to see what's in
> there and what I find is acid it looks like it may have not left the
> battery just yet so snipped that thing out of there and cleaned up with
> some vinegar etc..
>
> need the battery source now :)  also is there a ram module source since we
> can't get quads?
>

[M100] batteries...

[Gregory McGill]

so I decided to take apart my m100 that has 8k of ram to see what's in
there and what I find is acid it looks like it may have not left the
battery just yet so snipped that thing out of there and cleaned up with
some vinegar etc..

need the battery source now :)  also is there a ram module source since we
can't get quads?