Re: llvm-9.0 on 10.6.8 shows red -- but it builds

On 2021-5-18 15:53 , Mojca Miklavec wrote: Sure, there's also a problem that Joshua pointed out that needs addressing, but even that fix wouldn't solve this particular instance. That was just an example of one improvement that could be made. It's been discussed before on the mailing list that

Re: llvm-9.0 on 10.6.8 shows red -- but it builds

On Tue, 18 May 2021 at 07:15, Ken Cunningham wrote: > > People are quoting > > the lack of llvm-9.0 for SnowLeopard on macports as a sign of the demise of > older systems, and it does for some reason show

Re: llvm-9.0 on 10.6.8 shows red -- but it builds

On 2021-5-18 15:15 , Ken Cunningham wrote: People are quoting >  the lack of llvm-9.0 for SnowLeopard on macports as a

llvm-9.0 on 10.6.8 shows red -- but it builds

People are quoting > the lack of llvm-9.0 for SnowLeopard on macports as a sign of the demise of older systems, and it

Framing the MacPorts discussion

Over the past month or so there has been a few threads on the direction of the project, what can be improved and what the vision should be. I wanted to summarize my two cents because I haven't been otherwise participating and hopefully this can adjust the community mindset towards what the

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

This is one reasonable compromise, given that a binary installer exists from the (combative, not very reasonable) developer if one wants it. One could then just leave the dependent ports and tell people to install the binary themselves if they want it. That said, I think it would be a boon to

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

On 5/17/21 19:06, Ryan Schmidt wrote Meh. They have different priorities than we do. No reason for us to follow what they do. In this instance, though, I think their reasoning is correct. So you would like MacPorts to delete all ports that depend on osxfuse, and all ports that depend on

Re: Becoming a legal entity and accepting donations (was: Re: Buildbot Performance)

Something like the Software Freedom Conservancy was something I was hoping existed - I don't know if anyone else has ever heard of them, but I bet they could help. Yeah, I was looking at mac1.metal instances which are surprisingly cheap for macs, but still pretty expensive. —Mark

Re: Becoming a legal entity and accepting donations (was: Re: Buildbot Performance)

Software Freedom Conservancy exists largely to help FLOSS orgs do this sort of thing safely and conveniently, while retaining independent governance. I believe Homebrew had a good experience with them, and Buildbot itself is a member. Was that one of the options considered when this question came

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

I personally feel that the developer has the right of having their own opinion, and rightly so. Lots of commercial software do not contribute back to the foundation made by open source projects and the fact that it is taken for granted that someone is working free on such important piece of

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

I agree with Perry, partly because the developer seems combative and I worry what happens if he decides to stop working on it one day. But I also don't want to remove all the ports - this kinda leads into why I want cask like functionality, but then again, who would notice if they just wanted to

Re: Becoming a legal entity and accepting donations (was: Re: Buildbot Performance)

Yeah, I was thinking of the US as well, and I meant non-profit, which doesn't have tax deductible donations but is assumed to not make money. The problem is there is a lot of work around becoming a legal entity and accepting donations or whatever. I honestly have no idea how much work exactly -

Re: Buildbot Performance

On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 7:54 PM Christopher Nielsen < masc...@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > > Pinning our buildbot VMs to specific NUMA nodes can result in starvation, > when multiple VMs assigned to a given node are all busy. That would also > result in underutilization of the other node, if VMs

Re: Buildbot Performance

Well, my recommendation for our setup, is to avoid pinning. Why? For several reasons: * Out-of-the-box, ESX/ESXi makes a best-effort attempt to schedule all vCPUs for a given VM, on a single NUMA node. * Even when that’s not possible, the hypervisor schedules VM vCPUs to hyperthread pairs.

Re: Buildbot Performance

> > We don’t want any type of pinning, as that will further exacerbate the > situation. > Why would that be? Do the virtual servers have a low number of physical cores or something? -- Jason Liu On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 6:26 PM Christopher Nielsen < masc...@rochester.rr.com> wrote: > We don’t

Re: Buildbot Performance

If the guests on a virtual server are exerting a heavy enough load that the virtual host is not able to obtain the resources it needs, then the entire system's performance, both physical and virtual, can be affected. I'm not claiming to be familiar enough with the specifics of the situation to

Re: Buildbot Performance

Hmmm, perhaps I responded a bit too quickly, as there can be some performance benefit to pinning to a specific NUMA node (CPU socket). Particularly if our VMs were only running with only four vCPUs each. So to qualify my statement: Given the configuration we’re running - VMs with eight

Re: Buildbot Performance

Sounds good. And perhaps that’s a good long-term plan: If we can install additional memory in the Xserves, such that all buildbot VMs can be allocated 9 or 10 GB each, that should help across-the-board. Combine that with an upgrade to six-core Westmere Xeons, and our build times will increase

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

On May 17, 2021, at 08:44, Perry E. Metzger wrote: > On 5/17/21 01:44, Ryan Schmidt wrote: >> On May 16, 2021, at 21:49, Mark Anderson wrote: >> >>> Given some of our recent back and forth, I found this interesting: >>> https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/pull/74812 >> Meh. They have

Re: Buildbot Performance

On May 17, 2021, at 17:42, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > Also, I see two buildbot VMs with 9 GB of memory allocated: > > OS X El Capitan v10.11.6 (15G22010) > Xcode v8.2.1 (8C1002) > Apple LLVM version 8.0.0 (clang-800.0.42.1) > Architecture: x86_64 > C++ library: libc++ > CPU: 8 ⨉ 2.15 GHz >

Re: Buildbot Performance

Also, I see two buildbot VMs with 9 GB of memory allocated: OS X El Capitan v10.11.6 (15G22010) Xcode v8.2.1 (8C1002) Apple LLVM version 8.0.0 (clang-800.0.42.1) Architecture: x86_64 C++ library: libc++ CPU: 8 ⨉ 2.15 GHz RAM: 9 GB Boot date: 2021-05-01T21:54:00Z macOS Mojave v10.14.6 (18G9028)

Re: Buildbot Performance

On May 17, 2021, at 17:30, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > If you total up the memory allocated across all VMs, is there at least one or > two GB free for the hypervisor? The hypervisor reserves 4.x GB for itself.

Re: Buildbot Performance

If you total up the memory allocated across all VMs, is there at least one or two GB free for the hypervisor? > On 2021-05-17-M, at 18:26, Ryan Schmidt wrote: > >> On May 17, 2021, at 07:36, Christopher Nielsen wrote: >> >> As for overcommitment: I’m simply suggesting that we reduce the

Re: Buildbot Performance

We don’t want any type of pinning, as that will further exacerbate the situation. > On 2021-05-17-M, at 18:24, Ryan Schmidt wrote: > >> On May 17, 2021, at 13:13, Jason Liu wrote: >> >> Regarding CPU overcommitment: Are the virtual hosts doing any sort of CPU >> pinning? Many virtualization

Re: Buildbot Performance

On May 17, 2021, at 07:36, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > As for overcommitment: I’m simply suggesting that we reduce the number of > vCPUs per builder, from eight to six. And I'm suggesting that doing so will slow things down in those situations when only one or two VMs on a host are busy.

Re: Buildbot Performance

On May 17, 2021, at 13:13, Jason Liu wrote: > Regarding CPU overcommitment: Are the virtual hosts doing any sort of CPU > pinning? Many virtualization products have the ability to specify which of > the pCPU cores a guest is allowed to use. As far as I can remember, products > like KVM and

Re: Buildbot Performance

On Sun, May 16, 2021 at 3:38 PM Ryan Schmidt wrote: > > > On May 16, 2021, at 09:48, Christopher Nielsen wrote: > >> Upgrading them to six-core Xeons would absolutely help, for sure. But I’m >> quite certain that we could also improve the situation, by reducing the >> level of CPU

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

On 5/17/21 01:44, Ryan Schmidt wrote: On May 16, 2021, at 21:49, Mark Anderson wrote: Given some of our recent back and forth, I found this interesting: https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/pull/74812 Meh. They have different priorities than we do. No reason for us to follow what they

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

They seem to share my opinion. On 5/16/21 22:49, Mark Anderson wrote: Given some of our recent back and forth, I found this interesting:Â https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/pull/74812

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

On 5/17/21 1:44 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote: > On May 16, 2021, at 21:49, Mark Anderson wrote: > >> Given some of our recent back and forth, I found this interesting: >> https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-core/pull/74812 > Meh. They have different priorities than we do. No reason for us to follow

Re: Buildbot Performance

It used to be that you had to pay for vCenter, to get deep insights into VM performance. But ‘esxtop' is certainly a great starting point. And perhaps it does provide enough info, to get an idea of where time is being spent. > On 2021-05-17-M, at 02:55, Daniel J. Luke wrote: > > I'm not an

Re: Becoming a legal entity and accepting donations (was: Re: Buildbot Performance)

On Mon, 17 May 2021 at 10:39, Ruben Di Battista wrote: > > Just as a side note, here in France I just created a non-profit association > for a project I'm working on related to the organization of an event, and the > process is almost free and reasonably fast. In a matter of few weeks we had >

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

I like having Fuse ports available in MacPorts, I just wish they didn't break as often; see the following bugs: https://trac.macports.org/ticket/59316 https://trac.macports.org/ticket/62226 On Mon, May 17, 2021 at 4:55 AM Ruben Di Battista wrote: > > I also agree with Ryan. Osxfuse is a

Re: Homebrew Disables OSXFuse ports

I also agree with Ryan. Osxfuse is a dependency on some projects that are very useful and shipping it in binary form is very therefore useful too. On Mon, 17 May 2021, 07:44 Ryan Schmidt, wrote: > On May 16, 2021, at 21:49, Mark Anderson wrote: > > > Given some of our recent back and forth, I

Re: Becoming a legal entity and accepting donations (was: Re: Buildbot Performance)

Just as a side note, here in France I just created a non-profit association for a project I'm working on related to the organization of an event, and the process is almost free and reasonably fast. In a matter of few weeks we had the association published on the official governmental gazette and a

Re: Buildbot Performance

On May 17, 2021, at 2:03 AM, Ryan Schmidt wrote: > On May 16, 2021, at 17:57, Daniel J. Luke wrote: >> On May 16, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Christopher Nielsen wrote: >>> I’d bet the hypervisor is spending more time on scheduling and pre-emption, >>> than actual processing time. >> >> This is

Re: Buildbot Performance

On May 16, 2021, at 17:57, Daniel J. Luke wrote: > On May 16, 2021, at 10:48 AM, Christopher Nielsen wrote: >> I’d bet the hypervisor is spending more time on scheduling and pre-emption, >> than actual processing time. > > This is something we could actually measure, though, right? Then we

Re: Becoming a legal entity and accepting donations (was: Re: Buildbot Performance)

On May 16, 2021, at 14:46, Mark Anderson wrote: > I keep wondering if we became like a not-for-profit If we could get someone > like MacStadium or Amazon or something to donate server time to us. Or accept > donations from Github sponsorship. I could look into what that would take, > although