Looking at all those different languages they had that message
localized in reminds me, how many languages is the MacPorts website
available in? Is it just English so far? Anyways, good to see that
Homebrew seems to have stopped the negative advertising against
MacPorts at least on their main
ok. my 2 cents after quick reading this long thread
- clearly, submission should be asked on install of macports, either opt-in
or opt-out. I'm pretty sure It's a legal constraint in some places (like
european union). w opt-in, there is a risk to have little people but it's
probably cleaner.
It
Hi,
First of all, I would like to express my gratitude to Clemens for
getting this project up and running. I really like the website. There
is definitely a lot that can be improved, but it's already really nice
as it is now.
It would probably make sense to discuss and collect different ideas
On 22 Mar 2014, at 20:55 , Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
I do not log any post data along with the IP address, so I cannot tie IPs to
UUIDs, except maybe by correlating the last-update timestamp and the log file.
We are talking NSA-like meta-data, which could be linked to a real person…
Hi,
On 22 Mar 2014, at 20:55 , Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
I do not log any post data along with the IP address, so I cannot tie IPs
to UUIDs, except maybe by correlating the last-update timestamp and the
log file.
We are talking NSA-like meta-data, which could be linked to a
Dear Clemens,
first of all I apologise if my words were too harsh. It was not my intention to
attack you or anyone else on a personal level!
I am just concerned about everyone’s privacy.
I have (as I said I was going to in a different part of my last mail you
didn't quote) changed my
On 2014-03-22 19:48, Davor Cubranic wrote:
The amount of traffic to this list that comes down to “you need to run the
migration steps from the [Migration] page” is astounding, and it must be a
real drain on the time of those who by now must have answered hundreds of
such questions.
It
On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:55 PM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
I’m not arguing that the data should be completely public, but checking where
we are were the data to become completely public through accident or hack,
etc. And maybe I’m suggesting that it might not be so dangerous to make
On Mar 23, 2014, at 5:19 PM, Rainer Müller rai...@macports.org wrote:
You actually describe what is already coming with the next release:
http://trac.macports.org/changeset/113478
Glad to hear that!
Davor___
macports-users mailing list
This reminds me of the classic “Worse is Better” essay on Lisp vs C (and MIT vs
Bell Labs) approach to software systems
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worse_is_better):
There is a number of comparison points in the essay, but this is the most
relevant one:
- C: It is slightly better to be
On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 2:49 AM, Bradley Giesbrecht wrote:
On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Clemens Lang wrote:
As a port maintainer, one key thing I'd like to know is the breakdown
of OS versions that my users are running. The data is available for
that, right? Just a matter of extracting and
Hi,
Does anyone have a quick link to the db schema or better yet a data dump
from stats.macports.neverpanic.de;) ?
You'll need to ask Clemens for the actual data dump, but the schema
can be found here:
At 7:20 PM +0100 3/22/14, Clemens Lang wrote:
Hi,
Does anyone have a quick link to the db schema or better yet a data dump
from stats.macports.neverpanic.de;) ?
You'll need to ask Clemens for the actual data dump, but the schema
can be found here:
The amount of traffic to this list that comes down to “you need to run the
migration steps from the [Migration] page” is astounding, and it must be a real
drain on the time of those who by now must have answered hundreds of such
questions.
It seems to me like we could go a long way toward
Just a concerned question:
Why is that database given away to anyone who asks?
Sure, there are only 10 users who have committed all their information to
Clemens’ server neverpanic.de, but I don’t see why information like that shall
be spread even further.
Greets,
Marko
On Mar 18, 2014, at 10:54 AM, Daniel J. Luke dl...@geeklair.net wrote:
GitHub was the new exciting place to be as well.
GitHub plus not having to learn/use tcl seem to be the major features that
pull people/create interest from what I've seen (but I haven't looked in on
it in a while).
Hi,
Just a concerned question:
Why is that database given away to anyone who asks?
I agree this is a valid question; let's discuss that before I hand out
any statistics data. However, there are other parts of the database besides
the schema that are rather hard to setup (e.g. the
On Mar 22, 2014, at 12:04 PM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
Hi,
Just a concerned question:
Why is that database given away to anyone who asks?
I agree this is a valid question; let's discuss that before I hand out
any statistics data. However, there are other parts of the
Hi,
On the other hand, the user data is anonymized by the UUID, right? Is there
anything in the data that ties the data to a user, beyond the UUID, which is
generated randomly by the user install? ipaddress?
We only store the UUID, there's no connection to any personal data. The apache
On Mar 20, 2014, at 3:54 AM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
As a port maintainer, one key thing I'd like to know is the breakdown
of OS versions that my users are running. The data is available for
that, right? Just a matter of extracting and presenting it?
Yes, that data is
On 19 Mar 2014, at 21:03 , Jeremy Lavergne jer...@lavergne.gotdns.org wrote:
From what I can see, our tool will not gather whether a port was Requested
or not. I think that's a key data point. Some libs will get installed very
frequently as dependencies but will seldom be requested.
At the
Hi Craig,
Thanks, that helped a lot. I like the page layout, very clean. I
have to say, though that I'm not a big fan of pie (or donut) graphs.
It is much easy to compare magnitudes of a bar as opposed to sections
of a donut.
I agree. Patches welcome. In general, if anybody with a little
On Thu, Mar 20, 2014 at 11:54 AM, Clemens Lang wrote:
Seriously though, it says to install the mpstats port, but port cannot find
anything by that name. Even searching for “stat” doesn’t seem to show any
likely candidates.
That's correct. The port currently doesn't work on any released
Hi,
sudo port install http://files.neverpanic.de/mpvim.tar.
In what way is mpvim related to mpstats?
In none, I'm sorry. Correct URL is
https://neverpanic.de/documents/mpstats.tar
--
Clemens Lang
___
macports-users mailing list
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
Hi,
No! Homebrew's search functionality is my biggest problem with it. The
columns you mentioned make it hard to read because it makes it harder to
see how they are sorted. The alphabetization seems to be in order by
At 11:06 PM +0100 3/18/14, Rainer Müller wrote:
On 2014-03-18 22:09, James Berry wrote:
* More integrated web app with better access to ports, etc.
Which could also be integrated with the upcoming statistics gathering in
the next MacPorts release.
As I understand it, the statistics process
Regarding the console spam, we can only avoid it if the user “cleanly
uninstalls MacPorts [1]. Then if the stats cron job is treated or installed as
a typical port, the cron job would be uninstalled.
However, if, as suggested, the user just deletes /opt/local/* then we can’t
really cleanup
Hi Craig,
As I understand it, the statistics process arose
in GSOC 11, right? Is it pretty much as
described at:
[…]
Is the above accurate? I understand that Popcon
tracks the last access time (atime) for files in
a port and that our implementation does not.
Yes, that's correct.
On Mar 19, 2014, at 15:16, Craig Treleaven ctrelea...@cogeco.ca wrote:
As I understand it, the statistics process arose in GSOC 11, right? Is it
pretty much as described at:
https://trac.macports.org/wiki/MacPortsStatisticsGSoC2011
There is a (short) thread about the proposal here:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
Hi Craig,
As I understand it, the statistics process arose
in GSOC 11, right? Is it pretty much as
described at:
[...]
Is the above accurate? I understand that Popcon
tracks the last access time (atime) for
On Mar 18, 2014, at 12:27 PM, Landon Fuller land...@macports.org wrote:
They seemed to acquire a lot of traction on the basis of marketing;
specifically:
- Truthiness (an assortment of “advantages” that turned out not to be,
claims that ignored technical accuracy and nuance, and
At 5:49 PM -0400 3/19/14, Eric Gallager wrote:
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 4:16 PM, Clemens Lang
mailto:c...@macports.orgc...@macports.org wrote:
What is the user
wants to get rid of MacPorts and deletes
/opt/local/*. My experience is that launchd will
_never_ stop trying to run the missing
At 9:16 PM +0100 3/19/14, Clemens Lang wrote:
Do we have a sample statistics page for a port/all ports?
http://stats.macports.neverpanic.de/
Thanks, that helped a lot. I like the page layout, very clean. I
have to say, though that I'm not a big fan of pie (or donut) graphs.
It is much
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Craig Treleaven wrote:
At 9:16 PM +0100 3/19/14, Clemens Lang wrote:
Do we have a sample statistics page for a port/all ports?
http://stats.macports.neverpanic.de/
Thanks, that helped a lot. I like the page layout, very clean. I have to
say, though that I'm not a
At 7:43 PM -0700 3/19/14, Ludwig wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2014, Craig Treleaven wrote:
At 9:16 PM +0100 3/19/14, Clemens Lang wrote:
Do we have a sample statistics page for a port/all ports?
http://stats.macports.neverpanic.de/
Thanks, that helped a lot. I like the page layout, very
Hi
I’ve given Homebrew a quick try in a VM and it doesn’t seem that different in
functionality. (Except that I do wish we had something like Homebrew-cask.)
So, other than the coolness factor (which I guess comes partly from being
“the new thing”, and partly from using Github for all
Marketing. Ease of use.
Davor Cubranic cubra...@stat.ubc.ca wrote:
On Mar 12, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Art McGee amc...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is that the presentation of the case for supporting
MacPorts was confusing and unconvincing, so usage statistics are not
going to help in that matter.
On Mar 17, 2014, at 22:42, Davor Cubranic wrote:
I’ve given Homebrew a quick try in a VM and it doesn’t seem that different in
functionality. (Except that I do wish we had something like Homebrew-cask.)
For those of us not familiar with Homebrew: what is this feature? what does it
do?
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 8:28 AM, Ryan Schmidt ryandes...@macports.orgwrote:
On Mar 17, 2014, at 22:42, Davor Cubranic wrote:
I've given Homebrew a quick try in a VM and it doesn't seem that
different in functionality. (Except that I do wish we had something like
Homebrew-cask.)
For those
On Mar 18, 2014, at 1:28pm, Ryan Schmidt-24 wrote:
I’ve given Homebrew a quick try in a VM and it doesn’t seem that
different in functionality. (Except that I do wish we had something
like Homebrew-cask.)
For those of us not familiar with Homebrew: what is this feature? what does
it do?
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
- homebrew doesn't try as hard as MacPorts to make builds reproducible. If
you install vim, it'll use the first python available. When that's system
python it uses that, if it's homebrew python it'll use that (and if its
On Mar 18, 2014, at 1:36 PM, Arno Hautala a...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
- homebrew doesn't try as hard as MacPorts to make builds reproducible. If
you install vim, it'll use the first python available. When that's system
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 1:36 PM, Arno Hautala a...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
- homebrew doesn't try as hard as MacPorts to make builds reproducible.
If you install vim, it'll use the first python available. When that's
system
homebrew will or will appear to get a user to their desired state of “I just
need X installed” faster than MacPorts.
Their users simply don’t care about what MacPorts does: it isn’t that homebrew
has a feature, it’s that homebrew won’t seem to get in the way.
On Mar 18, 2014, at 13:36, Arno
Hi,
I'm pretty sure they consider this a strength. I already have Python!
Why is MacPorts trying to install a new version!?
Certainly, but it leads to situations such as
https://github.com/Valloric/YouCompleteMe/issues/8. They might not have to deal
with python because they're not managing
Hi,
homebrew will or will appear to get a user to their desired state of “I just
need X installed” faster than MacPorts.
Their users simply don’t care about what MacPorts does: it isn’t that
homebrew has a feature, it’s that homebrew won’t seem to get in the way.
Sure, I'd consider that to
On Mar 18, 2014, at 3:01 PM, Ryan Schmidt ryandes...@macports.org wrote:
On Mar 18, 2014, at 12:54, Daniel J. Luke dl...@geeklair.net wrote:
GitHub plus not having to learn/use tcl seem to be the major features that
pull people/create interest from what I've seen (but I haven't looked in on
On Mar 18, 2014, at 12:54, Daniel J. Luke dl...@geeklair.net wrote:
GitHub plus not having to learn/use tcl seem to be the major features that
pull people/create interest from what I've seen (but I haven't looked in on
it in a while).
…right, instead of you have to learn/use ruby. Six of
They seemed to acquire a lot of traction on the basis of marketing;
specifically:
- Truthiness (an assortment of “advantages” that turned out not to be,
claims that ignored technical accuracy and nuance, and claims quite simply
rooted in ignorance), and
- Outright negative
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 2:27 PM, Landon Fuller land...@macports.org wrote:
They seemed to acquire a *lot* of traction on the basis of marketing;
specifically:
- Truthiness (an assortment of advantages that turned out not to be,
claims that ignored technical accuracy and nuance, and claims
On Mar 18, 2014, at 3:57 PM, Eric A. Borisch ebori...@macports.org wrote:
However, perhaps we should take a page from their book. Look at the homebrew
homepage (http://brew.sh/)
* It would be nice a similar minimalist, here is what macports does for
you landing page.
* A one line
On Mar 18, 2014, at 12:57 PM, Eric A. Borisch ebori...@macports.org wrote:
However, perhaps we should take a page from their book. Look at the homebrew
homepage (http://brew.sh/)
* It would be nice a similar minimalist, here is what macports does for
you landing page.
* A one line
* More use of ANSI colors in the log messages (used to distinguish the start
of each port, etc., and maybe with different colors for different phases)…
all tunable, of course, for those who don’t like color.
We should also take a look at `port search', which can currently produce
enormous
On Mar 18, 2014, at 16:35, Clemens Lang wrote:
* A careful review of what we emit, and when (we don’t clearly distinguish
when a port was loaded from a build-bot vs built by hand, unless you know
what to look for), etc.
Agreed. We should also remove some of the clean messages that might be
On 2014-03-18 22:09, James Berry wrote:
For the website, I think the following would help:
* Updated design, colors, etc.
That has always been the plan, but it just needs someone to do it.
I think the last update on the website design dates back to 2007...
I would even replace the website
On 18 Mar 2014, at 23:06 , Rainer Müller rai...@macports.org wrote:
also getting rid of one of the duplicated installation instructions on
website/wiki/guide.
Well, that’s another big endeavour, because we finally should find a way to
condense the information from all three sources + man
Pretty sure It’s opt-in. So it’s the antithesis of NSA :-p
On Mar 18, 2014, at 18:12, mk-macpo...@techno.ms wrote:
Well, the statistics gathering is something I would also like to see
(awaiting the new release impatiently), but it’s a little worrisome, because
it has a touch of NSA
On 18 Mar 2014, at 23:15 , Jeremy Lavergne jer...@lavergne.gotdns.org wrote:
Pretty sure It’s opt-in. So it’s the antithesis of NSA :-p
I am aware of that, of course. ;-)
___
macports-users mailing list
macports-users@lists.macosforge.org
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:35 PM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
* More use of ANSI colors in the log messages (used to distinguish the
start
of each port, etc., and maybe with different colors for different
phases)...
all tunable, of course, for those who don't like color.
We
Hi,
No! Homebrew's search functionality is my biggest problem with it. The
columns you mentioned make it hard to read because it makes it harder to
see how they are sorted. The alphabetization seems to be in order by column
at first, but then at some random row the alphabetical order will
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:43 PM, Ryan Schmidt ryandes...@macports.org wrote:
Also, consider the OS X startup progress bar, back when OS X had one:
originally it was very accurate, but by Tiger it had been changed to just
advance at a more or less constant rate regardless what was happening;
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
For less than 10 results, the following looks nice to my eyes:
gt; port search git
portversion description
--- ---
babl-devel 0.1.11-20140305 Babl is a library for
Yeah, I think tcl is one of the things that confounds people the most. Not
really learned that much anymore. I learned it long ago for CAD tools from
IBM.
But really, both Homebrew and Macports are domain specific languages from
the port writers perspective. You've got to learn it anyway. People
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 3:27 PM, Landon Fuller land...@macports.org wrote:
MacPorts driving you to drink?
I hate that. Turned me off the whole project.
--Mark
___
Mark E. Anderson e...@emer.net
___
macports-users mailing list
At 12:48 AM +0100 3/19/14, Clemens Lang wrote:
[...]
And I'm all for keeping that if there are less than, say 10 search
results. When there are more than 10 results, ...
Much of the time, the volume of search results is inflated due to
perl, python and php subports. (Eg, search for
At 11:06 PM +0100 3/18/14, Rainer Müller wrote:
[...] I would even replace the website with the Trac wiki front page
altogether, also getting rid of one of the duplicated installation
instructions on website/wiki/guide.
I understand that the next release of MacPorts
will check for a correct
On Tuesday, March 18, 2014, Clemens Lang c...@macports.org wrote:
Also, we really need to work on the dependency calculation stuff to print
a plan of action before starting and print progress information (building
port x of y) while building.
I wrote a little script for myself that goes and
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 9:39 PM, Craig Treleaven ctrelea...@cogeco.cawrote:
Our 'extra steps', seem to trip up at least half our new users.
Another big one would be handling major OS upgrades more cleanly. I think
the two issues are that MacPorts detects certain configurations upon
install and
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 9:56 PM, Eric A. Borisch ebori...@macports.orgwrote:
I wrote a little script for myself that goes and queries
packages.macports.org and determines if a port will be built or use a
package; it spits out a dot graph of dependencies colored by which is going
to happen.
On Mar 18, 2014, at 19:02, Arno Hautala a...@alum.wpi.edu wrote:
Another big one would be handling major OS upgrades more cleanly. I think the
two issues are that MacPorts detects certain configurations upon install and
generally all ports need to be rebuilt. Making MacPorts detect the OS
This mostly already exists: it’s currently only for packages that are installed.
port echo requested
port setrequested …
Presently, to get your between-installs behavior, you’d dump the output of echo
requested to a file then read it back in. Hilariously, our Migration page (!!!
this is
On Mar 12, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Art McGee amc...@gmail.com wrote:
The problem is that the presentation of the case for supporting MacPorts was
confusing and unconvincing, so usage statistics are not going to help in that
matter.
I’ve been wondering why Homebrew has such huge momentum and
On Thu, Mar 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Terry Barnum wrote:
On Mar 12, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Art McGee wrote:
Terry Barnum wrote:
The freeswitch devs are updating the Mac section of their wiki and are
claiming that homebrew is more widely supported between platforms. They are
reluctant to add
Hi Art and Mojca.
My comments are below. Since I don't think this is really a macports issue per
se, I'd be happy to continue the discussion off-list but I don't really have
much more to add.
On Mar 14, 2014, at 1:27 AM, Mojca Miklavec mojca.miklavec.li...@gmail.com
wrote:
A way more
On Mar 12, 2014, at 2:12 PM, Art McGee amc...@gmail.com wrote:
Terry Barnum te...@dop.com wrote:
The freeswitch devs are updating the Mac section of their wiki and are
claiming that homebrew is more widely supported between platforms. They are
reluctant to add information on using
On Mar 13, 2014, at 14:25, Terry Barnum te...@dop.com wrote:
Hi Art. Thanks for your comments. While I agree the process may seem
confusing, if you look at their standard build instructions you'll see that
the bulk of the process I described is essentially identical. The only
differences
Is anyone aware of usage comparisons between macports and homebrew? Like
installed base numbers?
The freeswitch devs are updating the Mac section of their wiki and are claiming
that homebrew is more widely supported between platforms. They are reluctant to
add information on using macports for
On Wed, Mar 12, 2014 at 6:30 PM, Terry Barnum wrote:
Is anyone aware of usage comparisons between macports and homebrew? Like
installed base numbers?
That is probably impossible to get. But even if you had the
statistics, that wouldn't really help you for the sake of argument why
one should or
Terry Barnum te...@dop.com wrote:
The freeswitch devs are updating the Mac section of their wiki and are
claiming that homebrew is more widely supported between platforms. They are
reluctant to add information on using macports for freeswitch dependencies
because a) they don't want to
79 matches
Mail list logo
