Re: upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[Ryan Schmidt]

On Apr 18, 2018, at 06:07, William H. Magillwrote:

> One assumes that a big problem with any migration guide (or automated 
> process) will be with Apache and MAMP
> 
> I haven’t run OSX Server for several years now, but the difference in 
> locations between OSX Server’s locations (Site, etc.) and the standard Apache 
> 2 locations were always annoying. Then Apache changed its locations with 
> Apache 2.4 - which we just updated in the  port file notes, and partially 
> updated the MacPorts instructions on the WIKI. ( 
> https://trac.macports.org/wiki/howto/Apache2 ) 

Well, MacPorts changed the locations where we install Apache httpd, when we 
updated the apache2 port from version 2.2.x to 2.4.x. It wasn't related to any 
decision made by the Apache httpd project.


> One presumes that the remainder of the integration products - MAMP - MySQL / 
> PHP — will also be an issue.
> 
> I never used the MediaWiki part of OSX server, but one assumes it will have 
> the same Apache 2.4 integration issues.

macOS Server included MediaWiki? I thought it included a custom Apple-created 
wiki software.

Re: upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[William H. Magill]

> On Apr 18, 2018, at 6:07 AM, Rainer Müller  wrote:
> 
>>> https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf
>> 
>> This looks like a last note from a frustrated admin
>> leaving a company tomorrow for greener pastures.
> 
> Assuming Apple tested this process, it would be a good idea to check
> whether the instructions given in this document match our ports
> regarding startup items and other configuration options. Any volunteers?
> 
> Rainer

One assumes that a big problem with any migration guide (or automated process) 
will be with Apache and MAMP

I haven’t run OSX Server for several years now, but the difference in locations 
between OSX Server’s locations (Site, etc.) and the standard Apache 2 locations 
were always annoying. Then Apache changed its locations with Apache 2.4 - which 
we just updated in the  port file notes, and partially updated the MacPorts 
instructions on the WIKI. ( https://trac.macports.org/wiki/howto/Apache2 ) 

One presumes that the remainder of the integration products - MAMP - MySQL / 
PHP — will also be an issue.

I never used the MediaWiki part of OSX server, but one assumes it will have the 
same Apache 2.4 integration issues.

T.T.F.N.
William H. Magill
# iMac11,3 Core i7 [2.93GHz - 8 GB 1067MHz] OS X 10.13.4
# Macmini6,1 Intel Core i5 [2.5 Ghz - 4GB 1600MHz] OS X 10.13.4
# MacPro5,1 Quad-Core Intel Xeon [2.8 GHz - 16 GB 1066 MHz] OSX 10.13.4
mag...@icloud.com
mag...@mac.com
whmag...@gmail.com

Re: upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[Rainer Müller]

On 2018-04-18 10:09, Jan Stary wrote:
> On Apr 16 19:39:11, rlha...@smart.net wrote:
>> "In fall 2018, Apple will stop bundling open source services such as 
>> Calendar Server, Contacts Server, the Mail Server, DNS, DHCP, VPN Server, 
>> and Websites with macOS Server. Customers can get these same services 
>> directly from open-source providers. This way, macOS Server customers can 
>> install the most secure and up-to-date services as soon as they’re 
>> available."  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208312 
>> 
>>
>> For which of these (and others listed on the link) is there already a port,
>> esp. for the recommended (or most nearly identical) replacement?
> 
> We have unbound and nsd in the ports.
> 
>> Should there maybe also be a mention on a FAQ or wiki page of the
>> collective availability of easily installable alternatives via MacPorts?
> 
> I don't think this deserves another extra wiki page.
> MP provides software that does not come with MacOS itself.
> This situation is nothing new in that regard.

Similar to the migration guide from Apple linked below, there could be a
document to explain how to migrate these services to MacPorts.

Especially for internet-facing services it would be better to get more
users to install from a maintained repository with regular updates
instead of installing only once from source.

>> Anything else that might be an opportunity
>> to mitigate this annoyance that I haven't mentioned?
> 
> 
> Apple has been replacing fundamental parts of the OS with opensource
> for some time; a lot of the utils come from FreeBSD, the firewall is
> OpenBSD's pf, the SSL implementation is OpenBSD's LibreSSL, etc.
> That's not a bad thing: just use the good code, as opposed to
> reimplementing your own poorly. But e.g. groff (not really server related)
> that comes with the latest MacOS is groff 1.19.2, from 2004. That's ancient.
> And now they are saying they cannot even be bothered to do that anymore
> (after all, Apple is just a multibilion company).
> Dear user, install the actual software yourself.

That is the last version of GNU roff licensed as GPL-2+ before they
changed the license to GPL-3+. This is the reason you do not get any
more recent GNU tools and why GNU make or bash are that old. Apple
avoids the GPLv3 for its patent and anti-tivoization clauses. They are
not alone with this, other companies do the same.

>> https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf
> 
> This looks like a last note from a frustrated admin
> leaving a company tomorrow for greener pastures.

Assuming Apple tested this process, it would be a good idea to check
whether the instructions given in this document match our ports
regarding startup items and other configuration options. Any volunteers?

Rainer

Re: upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[Jan Stary]

On Apr 16 19:39:11, rlha...@smart.net wrote:
> "In fall 2018, Apple will stop bundling open source services such as Calendar 
> Server, Contacts Server, the Mail Server, DNS, DHCP, VPN Server, and Websites 
> with macOS Server. Customers can get these same services directly from 
> open-source providers. This way, macOS Server customers can install the most 
> secure and up-to-date services as soon as they’re available."  
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208312 
> 
> 
> For which of these (and others listed on the link) is there already a port,
> esp. for the recommended (or most nearly identical) replacement?

We have unbound and nsd in the ports.

> Should there maybe also be a mention on a FAQ or wiki page of the
> collective availability of easily installable alternatives via MacPorts?

I don't think this deserves another extra wiki page.
MP provides software that does not come with MacOS itself.
This situation is nothing new in that regard.

> Anything else that might be an opportunity
> to mitigate this annoyance that I haven't mentioned?


Apple has been replacing fundamental parts of the OS with opensource
for some time; a lot of the utils come from FreeBSD, the firewall is
OpenBSD's pf, the SSL implementation is OpenBSD's LibreSSL, etc.
That's not a bad thing: just use the good code, as opposed to
reimplementing your own poorly. But e.g. groff (not really server related)
that comes with the latest MacOS is groff 1.19.2, from 2004. That's ancient.
And now they are saying they cannot even be bothered to do that anymore
(after all, Apple is just a multibilion company).
Dear user, install the actual software yourself.

But it's a good thing if Apple starts admitting it cannot compete with
open source when it comes to actually providing fundamental software
like a firewall or a dns server or a dhcp server and such.

I wonder how the list was decided.
"DNS on a UNIX server? SMTPd? Nah ..."


> https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf

This looks like a last note from a frustrated admin
leaving a company tomorrow for greener pastures.

Re: upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[Ken Cunningham]

On 2018-04-16, at 5:43 PM, Craig Treleaven wrote:

>> On Apr 16, 2018, at 7:39 PM, Richard L. Hamilton  wrote:
>> 
>> "In fall 2018, Apple will stop bundling open source services such as 
>> Calendar Server, Contacts Server, the Mail Server, DNS, DHCP, VPN Server, 
>> and Websites with macOS Server. Customers can get these same services 
>> directly from open-source providers. This way, macOS Server customers can 
>> install the most secure and up-to-date services as soon as they’re 
>> available."  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208312
>> 
>> For which of these (and others listed on the link) is there already a port, 
>> esp. for the recommended (or most nearly identical) replacement?  How about 
>> management GUIs?
>> 
>> Should there maybe also be a mention on a FAQ or wiki page of the collective 
>> availability of easily installable alternatives via MacPorts?  If MacPorts 
>> is able to provide replacements for most of the functionality, would further 
>> publicity be appropriate?
>> 
>> Anything else that might be an opportunity to mitigate this annoyance that I 
>> haven't mentioned?
>> 
> 
> I got as far as finding Apple’s detailed documentation on the open source 
> alternatives to the features that are being removed from Server.  
> 
> https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf
> 
> Clearly, MacPorts would make it much easier to install a number of these 
> software packages compared to the manual build processes outlined in the 
> migration document.
> 
> A wiki page showing MacPorts alternatives might be a good start.  Some are 
> obvious but in other cases there may be multiple packages that might suit a 
> particular installation.  If the page contains the right keywords, it ought 
> to be easy enough to find.
> 
> Craig
> 


I wonder if webmin  would be able to fill in the front 
end to this, with a bit of tweaking. it's been around a while, and has a lot of 
this kind of front-ending in mind...

I was trying to get this set up previously, and started this up 
 but never 
finished the full configuration.

Ken

Re: upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[Craig Treleaven]

> On Apr 16, 2018, at 7:39 PM, Richard L. Hamilton  wrote:
> 
> "In fall 2018, Apple will stop bundling open source services such as Calendar 
> Server, Contacts Server, the Mail Server, DNS, DHCP, VPN Server, and Websites 
> with macOS Server. Customers can get these same services directly from 
> open-source providers. This way, macOS Server customers can install the most 
> secure and up-to-date services as soon as they’re available."  
> https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208312 
> 
> 
> For which of these (and others listed on the link) is there already a port, 
> esp. for the recommended (or most nearly identical) replacement?  How about 
> management GUIs?
> 
> Should there maybe also be a mention on a FAQ or wiki page of the collective 
> availability of easily installable alternatives via MacPorts?  If MacPorts is 
> able to provide replacements for most of the functionality, would further 
> publicity be appropriate?
> 
> Anything else that might be an opportunity to mitigate this annoyance that I 
> haven't mentioned?
> 

I got as far as finding Apple’s detailed documentation on the open source 
alternatives to the features that are being removed from Server.  

https://developer.apple.com/support/macos-server/macOS-Server-Service-Migration-Guide.pdf
 


Clearly, MacPorts would make it much easier to install a number of these 
software packages compared to the manual build processes outlined in the 
migration document.

A wiki page showing MacPorts alternatives might be a good start.  Some are 
obvious but in other cases there may be multiple packages that might suit a 
particular installation.  If the page contains the right keywords, it ought to 
be easy enough to find.

Craig

upcoming removal of components from macOS Server: opportunity?

[Richard L. Hamilton]

"In fall 2018, Apple will stop bundling open source services such as Calendar 
Server, Contacts Server, the Mail Server, DNS, DHCP, VPN Server, and Websites 
with macOS Server. Customers can get these same services directly from 
open-source providers. This way, macOS Server customers can install the most 
secure and up-to-date services as soon as they’re available."  
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208312 


For which of these (and others listed on the link) is there already a port, 
esp. for the recommended (or most nearly identical) replacement?  How about 
management GUIs?

Should there maybe also be a mention on a FAQ or wiki page of the collective 
availability of easily installable alternatives via MacPorts?  If MacPorts is 
able to provide replacements for most of the functionality, would further 
publicity be appropriate?

Anything else that might be an opportunity to mitigate this annoyance that I 
haven't mentioned?



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