Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-15 Thread Bill Gallik 
I take no exceptions to your contributions!  I thoroughly expect that folks are 
(thankfully) going to present their perspectives.
* * * * * * * * *
Bill Gallik
wfgal...@icloud.com


> On Nov 15, 2015, at 7:14 AM, Mabelin Ramirez  
> wrote:
> 
> You can contact me off list  if you wish.
> My email off list is mabeli...@hotmail.com.
> My apologies for that.
> 
> I didn't mean to hijack the thread.
> 
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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-15 Thread Mabelin Ramirez 
You can contact me off list  if you wish.
My email off list is mabeli...@hotmail.com.
My apologies for that.

I didn't mean to hijack the thread.

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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-14 Thread Mabelin Ramirez 
Hello there, my name is Mabelin, just wanted to drop in and say hello. You can 
email me on my off list email. That is mabeli...@hotmail.com 
.

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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-14 Thread Shawn Krasniuk 
Hi Mabelin. Welcome to the list. A word of advice to you. What you just did was 
hijack a thread. This means that you hit reply on a message that was talking 
about upgrading to El Capitan and wrote something unrelated to upgrading. This 
is a big no no to mailing lists and discouraged by moderators. In the future, 
start a new message rather than replying to a thread and hijacking it and you 
should be ok.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook
Facebook Username: Shawn Krasniuk
Twitter Handle: shawnk_aka_bbs
Skype username: bbstheblindrapper
Facetime: bbssh...@icloud.com

> On Nov 14, 2015, at 9:02 PM, Mabelin Ramirez  
> wrote:
> 
> Hello there, my name is Mabelin, just wanted to drop in and say hello. You 
> can email me on my off list email. That is mabeli...@hotmail.com 
> .
> 
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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-14 Thread Grant 
Just to add my two cents, I’ve upgraded to OS X 10.11 within 24 hours of it 
coming out and I didn’t do a clean install. One of my machines is a late 2013 
Macbook Pro that originally came with Mavericks, and I’ve yet to erase that 
machine since getting it as I’ve never needed to. OS X El Capitan is working 
well for me and I honestly haven’t really experienced any major problems. I 
also love many of the new features such as the ability to use CAPS LOCK as my 
VoiceOver key natively, plus the ability to have finer control over how 
interaction works. My Macs do daily Time Machine backups so I know that if I 
ever had an issue, I could independently reinstall the OS and then I could get 
my data from a Time Machine backup.

Just wanted to throw that out there. I’m not saying that an upgrade install is 
necessarily the best option, but I bet a lot of folks download it from the App 
Store when it comes out, install over-top, and have no issues.

Cheers,

Grant

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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Mike Arrigo 
I always do a clean install of a new operating system. While I do copy 
things from a backup after the install such as my itunes library, I 
install all of my applications from scratch and customize all of them 
to my liking in the new operating system. It takes a lot more time to 
do things this way, but it's the most reliable and that's what really counts.

Original message:

Hello Bill,


I’ve been teaching Mac with VoiceOver here in France for several years 
and in my experience, a clean install is the safer option. Some people 
manage to do an upgrade with no problems, but the majority end up with 
anomalies that drive them to do a clean install in the end. This seems 
particularly true for El Capitán. Actually, if I didn’t have to teach 
it, I wouldn’t have bothered installing El Capitán for myself.


As for what constitutes a clean install, there are several variations 
on this theme. What I do is to make a bootable USB drive and make sure 
I have a Time Machine backup. I also clone my existing system using 
CarBon Copy Cloner (other utilities exist for this). I then shut down 
my computer and plug in the USB drive and install from that. I think 
it’s the second screen that offers the Utilities and I use Disk Utility 
to erase my HD. I then continue with the installation and retrieve my 
data from the Time Machine backup when the system asks if I have 
another computer or Time Machine backup.


This has always worked for me, but if problems persist, you can always 
install an absolutely clean system then copy your data to it from Time 
Machine, but you lose all your favourite settings this way.



Cheers,



Anne




On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:57, Bill Gallik  wrote:


I’ve been keeping my mind open to various discussions concerning 
installation of El Capitan and do have a question that may initiate 
additional such discussion.  I wonder if installing El Capitan as an 
upgrade or as a “clean install” might prove the better approach!



And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
-
Bill & Leader Dog Holland



wfgal...@icloud.com






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For

Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Vaughn Brown 
Bill,

I, too have a leader dog. That said, thank you for asking this
question. I am most certainly holding off on upgrading to the new
system for now.

Kindly,
Vaughn

On 11/12/15, Mike Arrigo  wrote:
> I always do a clean install of a new operating system. While I do copy
> things from a backup after the install such as my itunes library, I
> install all of my applications from scratch and customize all of them
> to my liking in the new operating system. It takes a lot more time to
> do things this way, but it's the most reliable and that's what really
> counts.
> Original message:
>> Hello Bill,
>
>> I’ve been teaching Mac with VoiceOver here in France for several years
>> and in my experience, a clean install is the safer option. Some people
>> manage to do an upgrade with no problems, but the majority end up with
>> anomalies that drive them to do a clean install in the end. This seems
>> particularly true for El Capitán. Actually, if I didn’t have to teach
>> it, I wouldn’t have bothered installing El Capitán for myself.
>
>> As for what constitutes a clean install, there are several variations
>> on this theme. What I do is to make a bootable USB drive and make sure
>> I have a Time Machine backup. I also clone my existing system using
>> CarBon Copy Cloner (other utilities exist for this). I then shut down
>> my computer and plug in the USB drive and install from that. I think
>> it’s the second screen that offers the Utilities and I use Disk Utility
>> to erase my HD. I then continue with the installation and retrieve my
>> data from the Time Machine backup when the system asks if I have
>> another computer or Time Machine backup.
>
>> This has always worked for me, but if problems persist, you can always
>> install an absolutely clean system then copy your data to it from Time
>> Machine, but you lose all your favourite settings this way.
>
>> Cheers,
>
>> Anne
>
>
>>> On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:57, Bill Gallik  wrote:
>
>>> I’ve been keeping my mind open to various discussions concerning
>>> installation of El Capitan and do have a question that may initiate
>>> additional such discussion.  I wonder if installing El Capitan as an
>>> upgrade or as a “clean install” might prove the better approach!
>
>>> And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
>>> -
>>> Bill & Leader Dog Holland
>
>>> wfgal...@icloud.com
>
>
>
>
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
>
>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list,
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>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list
>>> itself.
>
>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is
>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>
>>> The archives for this list can be searched at:
>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
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>
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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Robin 

Hey Mike,

Which of YourMacs are you going to UpDate via 
PodCastRecording (i.e., MacMini OR MacBook)? Is 
it a MacBook Air OR a MacBook Pro?

At 12:47 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:
I always do a clean install of a new operating 
system. While I do copy things from a backup 
after the install such as my itunes library, I 
install all of my applications from scratch and 
customize all of them to my liking in the new 
operating system. It takes a lot more time to do 
things this way, but it's the most reliable and that's what really counts.

Original message:

Hello Bill,


I’ve been teaching Mac with VoiceOver here in 
France for several years and in my experience, 
a clean install is the safer option. Some 
people manage to do an upgrade with no 
problems, but the majority end up with 
anomalies that drive them to do a clean install 
in the end. This seems particularly true for El 
Capitán. Actually, if I didn’t have to teach 
it, I wouldn’t have bothered installing El Capitán for myself.


As for what constitutes a clean install, there 
are several variations on this theme. What I do 
is to make a bootable USB drive and make sure I 
have a Time Machine backup. I also clone my 
existing system using CarBon Copy Cloner (other 
utilities exist for this). I then shut down my 
computer and plug in the USB drive and install 
from that. I think it’s the second screen 
that offers the Utilities and I use Disk 
Utility to erase my HD. I then continue with 
the installation and retrieve my data from the 
Time Machine backup when the system asks if I 
have another computer or Time Machine backup.


This has always worked for me, but if problems 
persist, you can always install an absolutely 
clean system then copy your data to it from 
Time Machine, but you lose all your favourite settings this way.



Cheers,



Anne




On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:57, Bill Gallik  wrote:


I’ve been keeping my mind open to various 
discussions concerning installation of El 
Capitan and do have a question that may 
initiate additional such discussion.  I wonder 
if installing El Capitan as an upgrade or as a 
“clean install† might prove the better approach!



And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
-

€”—

Bill & Leader Dog Holland



wfgal...@icloud.com






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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Robin 


At 12:47 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:
I always do a clean install of a new operating 
system. While I do copy things from a backup 
after the install such as my itunes library, I 
install all of my applications from scratch and 
customize all of them to my liking in the new 
operating system. It takes a lot more time to do 
things this way, but it's the most reliable and that's what really counts.

Original message:

Hello Bill,


I’ve been teaching Mac with VoiceOver here in 
France for several years and in my experience, 
a clean install is the safer option. Some 
people manage to do an upgrade with no 
problems, but the majority end up with 
anomalies that drive them to do a clean install 
in the end. This seems particularly true for El 
Capitán. Actually, if I didn’t have to teach 
it, I wouldn’t have bothered installing El Capitán for myself.


As for what constitutes a clean install, there 
are several variations on this theme. What I do 
is to make a bootable USB drive and make sure I 
have a Time Machine backup. I also clone my 
existing system using CarBon Copy Cloner (other 
utilities exist for this). I then shut down my 
computer and plug in the USB drive and install 
from that. I think it’s the second screen 
that offers the Utilities and I use Disk 
Utility to erase my HD. I then continue with 
the installation and retrieve my data from the 
Time Machine backup when the system asks if I 
have another computer or Time Machine backup.


This has always worked for me, but if problems 
persist, you can always install an absolutely 
clean system then copy your data to it from 
Time Machine, but you lose all your favourite settings this way.



Cheers,



Anne




On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:57, Bill Gallik  wrote:


I’ve been keeping my mind open to various 
discussions concerning installation of El 
Capitan and do have a question that may 
initiate additional such discussion.  I wonder 
if installing El Capitan as an upgrade or as a 
“clean install† might prove the better approach!



And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
-

€”—

Bill & Leader Dog Holland



wfgal...@icloud.com






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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Anne Robertson 
Hello Bill,

I’ve been teaching Mac with VoiceOver here in France for several years and in 
my experience, a clean install is the safer option. Some people manage to do an 
upgrade with no problems, but the majority end up with anomalies that drive 
them to do a clean install in the end. This seems particularly true for El 
Capitán. Actually, if I didn’t have to teach it, I wouldn’t have bothered 
installing El Capitán for myself.

As for what constitutes a clean install, there are several variations on this 
theme. What I do is to make a bootable USB drive and make sure I have a Time 
Machine backup. I also clone my existing system using CarBon Copy Cloner (other 
utilities exist for this). I then shut down my computer and plug in the USB 
drive and install from that. I think it’s the second screen that offers the 
Utilities and I use Disk Utility to erase my HD. I then continue with the 
installation and retrieve my data from the Time Machine backup when the system 
asks if I have another computer or Time Machine backup.

This has always worked for me, but if problems persist, you can always install 
an absolutely clean system then copy your data to it from Time Machine, but you 
lose all your favourite settings this way.

Cheers,

Anne


> On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:57, Bill Gallik  wrote:
> 
> I’ve been keeping my mind open to various discussions concerning installation 
> of El Capitan and do have a question that may initiate additional such 
> discussion.  I wonder if installing El Capitan as an upgrade or as a “clean 
> install” might prove the better approach!
> 
> And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
> -
> Bill & Leader Dog Holland
> 
> wfgal...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
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> 
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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Sadam Ahmed 
At the risk of sounding anticlimactic my advice would be to avoid installing El 
Capitan at this stage. 

Trust me the VoiceOver bugs are just not worth it. 

However if you insist the clean method is recommended. 

Instructions posted below: 

Hello everyone,

I know this has been covered before, but here’s how to do a clean install of El 
Capitán.

Cheers,

Anne


Download El Capitán from the Appstore.
When it opens the installer, quit it.
Make sure you have a spare 8 gb USB drive and give it the name Untitled.
Prepare your USB Flash Drive.

To format the USB drive open Disk Utility. Plug the drive into your Mac.

Select the USB Flash drive from the table in Disk Utility.
Select the “Erase” tab.
Make sure the Format is set to Mac OS Extended (Journaled).
As for the name, leave it as “Untitled”.
Finally click the Erase tab.

Terminal Command

Simply copy and paste this into Terminal and press the Return key:

sudo /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ 
Capitan.app/Contents/Resources/createinstallmedia --volume /Volumes/Untitled 
--applicationpath /Applications/Install\ OS\ X\ El\ Capitan.app --nointeraction

Since the above command uses the sudo attribute you will be required to enter 
your password to start the process.

Once the process starts you will see this in Terminal:

Erasing Disk: 0%… 10%… 20%…100%…
Copying installer files to disk…
Copy complete.
Making disk bootable…
Copying boot files…
Copy complete.
Done.

This process can take a while since it’s copying gigabytes of data over. Leave 
it alone and let it do its thing.

Installation.

First of all, make sure you have a Time Machine backup of your system, then 
shut down your computer.
With the installer USB drive plugged in, hold down the Option key and press the 
Power key.
Give it about 30 seconds, then press Right arrow once if you have no recovery 
partition, or twice if you have.
Press Return and wait.
After a few minutes, press Cmd-F5 to start VoiceOver.
The first screen is the Language Chooser, so press Continue.
You should now have a table of Utilities. Select Disk Utility and erase your 
internal hard drive. (Sometimes, VoiceOver gets stuck at this point and you may 
need sighted help to get out of trouble).
Once the HD is erased, select the installer and let it do its thing.
Eventually, you will be asked if you have another computer or a Time Machine 
backup. This is the point at which you connect your Time Machine drive, and 
just follow the instructions.

All your applications and data will be restored, except for any apps that are 
not compatible with El Capitán.

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Yours truly, 

Sadam Ahmed 

Blog: 

Http://www.SadamAhmed.com  

LinkedIn: 

https://au.linkedin.com/in/sadam-ahmed-04121258 
 




> On 12 Nov 2015, at 11:57 pm, Bill Gallik  wrote:
> 
> I’ve been keeping my mind open to various discussions concerning installation 
> of El Capitan and do have a question that may initiate additional such 
> discussion.  I wonder if installing El Capitan as an upgrade or as a “clean 
> install” might prove the better approach!
> 
> And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
> -
> Bill & Leader Dog Holland
> 
> wfgal...@icloud.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries 
> list.
> 
> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if 
> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or 
> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
> 
> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
> 
> The archives for this list can be searched at:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
> --- 
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Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread Mike Arrigo 
I actually have the last model of the white macbook, I might do that one, but 
haven’t decided yet.
> On Nov 12, 2015, at 7:12 PM, Robin  wrote:
> 
> Hey Mike,
> 
> Which of YourMacs are you going to UpDate via PodCastRecording (i.e., MacMini 
> OR MacBook)? Is it a MacBook Air OR a MacBook Pro?
> At 12:47 PM 11/12/2015, you wrote:
>> I always do a clean install of a new operating system. While I do copy 
>> things from a backup after the install such as my itunes library, I install 
>> all of my applications from scratch and customize all of them to my liking 
>> in the new operating system. It takes a lot more time to do things this way, 
>> but it's the most reliable and that's what really counts.
>> Original message:
>>> Hello Bill,
>> 
>>> I’ve been teaching Mac with VoiceOver here in France for several years 
>>> and in my experience, a clean install is the safer option. Some people 
>>> manage to do an upgrade with no problems, but the majority end up with 
>>> anomalies that drive them to do a clean install in the end. This seems 
>>> particularly true for El Capitán. Actually, if I didn’t have to teach 
>>> it, I wouldn’t have bothered installing El Capitán for myself.
>> 
>>> As for what constitutes a clean install, there are several variations on 
>>> this theme. What I do is to make a bootable USB drive and make sure I have 
>>> a Time Machine backup. I also clone my existing system using CarBon Copy 
>>> Cloner (other utilities exist for this). I then shut down my computer and 
>>> plug in the USB drive and install from that. I think it’s the second 
>>> screen that offers the Utilities and I use Disk Utility to erase my HD. I 
>>> then continue with the installation and retrieve my data from the Time 
>>> Machine backup when the system asks if I have another computer or Time 
>>> Machine backup.
>> 
>>> This has always worked for me, but if problems persist, you can always 
>>> install an absolutely clean system then copy your data to it from Time 
>>> Machine, but you lose all your favourite settings this way.
>> 
>>> Cheers,
>> 
>>> Anne
>> 
>> 
 On 12 Nov 2015, at 13:57, Bill Gallik  wrote:
>> 
 I’ve been keeping my mind open to various discussions concerning 
 installation of El Capitan and do have a question that may initiate 
 additional such discussion.  I wonder if installing El Capitan as an 
 upgrade or as a “clean install† might prove the better approach!
>> 
 And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
 -
>> €”—
 Bill & Leader Dog Holland
>> 
 wfgal...@icloud.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
 --
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 Visionaries list.
>> 
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 if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the 
 owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself.
>> 
 Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara 
 Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com
>> 
 The archives for this list can be searched at:
 http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/
 ---
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
 "MacVisionaries" group.
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 email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> 
>>> --
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>>> Visionaries list.
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>> 
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>> 
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>>

Re: El Capitan - Upgrade or Clean Install

2015-11-12 Thread E.T. 

Bill,
   This has actually been discussed heavily in the past weeks.

   My take in it is this. Clean installs is a one time process for each 
new OS release. Its the best way to clean house too.


   I am waiting for .2 or .3 before I bite. El Capitan should be pretty 
well matured by then. El Capitan offers nothing that I cannot live 
without so I am willing to wait another month or two.


From E.T.'s Keyboard...
   ancient.ali...@icloud.com
Many believe that we have been visited
in the past. What if it were true?

On 11/12/2015 4:57 AM, Bill Gallik wrote:

I’ve been keeping my mind open to various discussions concerning installation 
of El Capitan and do have a question that may initiate additional such 
discussion.  I wonder if installing El Capitan as an upgrade or as a “clean 
install” might prove the better approach!

And then, there’s the question as how to perform a “clean install?"
-
Bill & Leader Dog Holland

wfgal...@icloud.com






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