Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[William Windels]

Hello,

I have a bad experience about voiceover and braille since I started using 
voiceover on osx 10.5.3.
And I am still very disappointed  about the progress of braille in voiceover.

I wrote the following text and I try to publish it on some websites like:
accessibility - Voiceover braille problems with os x sierra - Ask Different 

I tried 9to5mac.com  but the article isn’t published since 
Saturday 
and from applevis, I have 2 comments.

here is the article in the mail.

kind regards,
William 
My experiences with voiceover and braille

I am a blind Mac user since Mac OS Leopard 10.5.3. Before that, I was using 
Windows and Linux.
In all situations, I used braille mostly with speech if speech was available.
So, when braille came available for OS X, I made the change to Mac.
I am writing this article on the following MacBook:


Model name: MacBookPro 12.1
Processor name: Intel Core i5
Processor speed:2,7 GHz
1 processor with 2 cores.
L2-cache (per core):256 KB
L3-cache:   3 MB
Memory: 16 GB
and Mac OS sierra 10.12.4. with safari 10.1 
Changes
There were many changes during these 9 years and some of them where big changes 
for voiceover users.
But from the last releases on, from OS X 10.7 Lion , there were only a few 
voiceover fixes and a some new features.

Specifically braille has had a nice update in 10.6 Snow Leopard with more 
braille tables. After that, no changes have been implemented any more in spite 
of the many requests of blind Mac users.

That’s why I wanted to add my remarks about the limited braille support in Mac 
OS Sierra.

Remarks
Many times, the braille display uses dots 7 and 8 as indication that the 
voiceover cursor is there.
Because dots 7 and 8 are in use, no other markers can be shown. If elements 
like menu items, links and other controls are selected, this isn’t visible 
without speech.
Dots 7 and 8 are useless since everything that is on the braille display is in 
the voiceover cursor.
And disabling dots 7 and 8 gives no indication  about the place of any cursor 
or selection at all So, this isn’t a solution also.

To show which element is selected, that item should just be shown on the 
braille display.

Also using command + tab to switch between different opened programs, I can’t 
see on the braille display which program has focus before releasing command + 
tab. The solution here is the same as above: show only the element with focus 
on the braille display.

In Mac OS, interaction is a basic way of working and this is a very innovative 
way of working. But sometimes, like in TextEdit, I can move between the text 
with the arrow-keys. But when I do a swipe down with 2 fingers, the text isn’t 
spoken from the place where I was. When I try to further interact, and I can do 
one level further, the problem of reading the text from the cursor is solved.
My suggestion: an indication on the braille display (and speech) if more or 
less interaction is possible.

With my Eurobraille Esys 40 braille display, it happens many times in Mail and 
some other programs that the cursor isn’t moving to the character where I press 
the routing key above in the text of a composed mail.
This is also the case for other Mac users with a Eurobraille Esys braille 
display.

Terminal is great because of the command line interface.
Unfortunately the braille support is very poor compared to the Linux terminal 
in combination with the BRLTTY screen reader.
Terminal doesn’t have a comfortable way to view all the text (history of 
commands) on the screen and there doesn’t seem to be a command to jump to the 
place of focus.
Navigating in manpages isn’t comfortable at all and there is no possibility to 
copy text from the terminal screen to the clipboard of Mac OS to paste e.g. in 
TextEdit.

Refreshing the text on the braille display doesn’t always work automatically. 
This happens e.g. when another window is popping up, or if switching between 2 
or more applications. The workaround is to go away from the active application 
and go back. But, a better refresh functionality or a command to force refresh 
would be very welcome.

As for the web, the braille is very poor and not flexible. As I already said, 
elements that have the voiceover cursor, are underlined without any good reason 
if you are using a braille display.
Forms

The problems to fill in forms are also very frustrating.
To demonstrate this, I have done a test with the site from apple:
 
https://appleid.apple.com/account#!&page=create

As example, I want to create a new apple-id on the website above.
The test is done with dom- and group-mode.
The steps are as follows:
1.  vo+home: beginning of 

Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[matthew dyer]

Hi,

Everything seems to be working fine here.  I do how ever have a strange thing 
where vo will jump to the last message in a thread in mail but our all thing 
work just fine here.

Matthew


> On Sep 21, 2016, at 1:06 PM, Blee Blat  wrote:
> 
> I'm not hitting any issues with anything here. The copy and paste thing is 
> neat but I don't use Siri so I can't comment on that. I might screw around 
> with it just to see how well it learns things, but I don't need dictation 
> enough to care, because often the times when it would be useful, it tends to 
> be too noisy where I'm at to dictate.
> 
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Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[Scott Granados]

I also agree, I haven’t tested brail much yet but the over all update has been 
a very good one.  Make sure all the tools you use and programs are compatible 
with sierra though that’s the only caveat.  My encryption software for mail 
doesn’t work yet but everything else so far is rock solid.

> On Sep 21, 2016, at 2:57 PM, christopher hallsworth  
> wrote:
> 
> Oh really? Sounds amazing!
>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 19:44, Daniela Rubio  wrote:
>> 
>> I can just say that now I am really happy. Very good experience with braille!
>> 
>> Best
>> 
>> Daniela Rubio T
>> Apple Distinguished Educator
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> El 21 sept 2016, a las 20:27, christopher hallsworth 
>>>  escribió:
>>> 
>>> Don’t use Braille on mac, Sierra overall very good, Safari much better 
>>> according to Applevis and I can see that, Apple has fixed many VoiceOver 
>>> bugs present El Capitan and earlier, highly recommended.
 On 21 Sep 2016, at 17:54, Anouk Radix  wrote:
 
 Hi For the early adopters,
 How is sierrra turning out accessibilitywise especially with braille?
 I am fairly satisfied with el capitain so far but woul dlove to use the 
 new copy and paste and siri.
 Safari for th emoment is not so good, i have to restart voiceover a lot to 
 get pages to refresh so I hope that gets better with sierra.
 I want to wait for finereader to be updated first but still always nice to 
 hear how htings are.
 Thanks in advance for any information,
 Greetings, Anouk,
 
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Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[christopher hallsworth]

Oh really? Sounds amazing!
> On 21 Sep 2016, at 19:44, Daniela Rubio  wrote:
> 
> I can just say that now I am really happy. Very good experience with braille!
> 
> Best
> 
> Daniela Rubio T
> Apple Distinguished Educator
> 
> 
> 
>> El 21 sept 2016, a las 20:27, christopher hallsworth 
>>  escribió:
>> 
>> Don’t use Braille on mac, Sierra overall very good, Safari much better 
>> according to Applevis and I can see that, Apple has fixed many VoiceOver 
>> bugs present El Capitan and earlier, highly recommended.
>>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 17:54, Anouk Radix  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi For the early adopters,
>>> How is sierrra turning out accessibilitywise especially with braille?
>>> I am fairly satisfied with el capitain so far but woul dlove to use the new 
>>> copy and paste and siri.
>>> Safari for th emoment is not so good, i have to restart voiceover a lot to 
>>> get pages to refresh so I hope that gets better with sierra.
>>> I want to wait for finereader to be updated first but still always nice to 
>>> hear how htings are.
>>> Thanks in advance for any information,
>>> Greetings, Anouk,
>>> 
>>> -- 
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>>> Visionaries list.
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h

Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[Daniela Rubio]

I can just say that now I am really happy. Very good experience with braille!

Best

Daniela Rubio T
Apple Distinguished Educator



> El 21 sept 2016, a las 20:27, christopher hallsworth 
>  escribió:
> 
> Don’t use Braille on mac, Sierra overall very good, Safari much better 
> according to Applevis and I can see that, Apple has fixed many VoiceOver bugs 
> present El Capitan and earlier, highly recommended.
>> On 21 Sep 2016, at 17:54, Anouk Radix  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi For the early adopters,
>> How is sierrra turning out accessibilitywise especially with braille?
>> I am fairly satisfied with el capitain so far but woul dlove to use the new 
>> copy and paste and siri.
>> Safari for th emoment is not so good, i have to restart voiceover a lot to 
>> get pages to refresh so I hope that gets better with sierra.
>> I want to wait for finereader to be updated first but still always nice to 
>> hear how htings are.
>> Thanks in advance for any information,
>> Greetings, Anouk,
>> 
>> -- 
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>> Visionaries list.
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Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[christopher hallsworth]

Don’t use Braille on mac, Sierra overall very good, Safari much better 
according to Applevis and I can see that, Apple has fixed many VoiceOver bugs 
present El Capitan and earlier, highly recommended.
> On 21 Sep 2016, at 17:54, Anouk Radix  wrote:
> 
> Hi For the early adopters,
> How is sierrra turning out accessibilitywise especially with braille?
> I am fairly satisfied with el capitain so far but woul dlove to use the new 
> copy and paste and siri.
> Safari for th emoment is not so good, i have to restart voiceover a lot to 
> get pages to refresh so I hope that gets better with sierra.
> I want to wait for finereader to be updated first but still always nice to 
> hear how htings are.
> Thanks in advance for any information,
> Greetings, Anouk,
> 
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Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[Christopher-Mark Gilland]

Braille works.  Enough said.

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Re: macos sierra accessibility especially with braille how is it so far?

[Blee Blat]

I'm not hitting any issues with anything here. The copy and paste thing is neat 
but I don't use Siri so I can't comment on that. I might screw around with it 
just to see how well it learns things, but I don't need dictation enough to 
care, because often the times when it would be useful, it tends to be too noisy 
where I'm at to dictate.

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