Re: [Mailman-Developers] Encrypted lists predictable difficulties and implementation needs

2017-03-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
Rich Kulawiec writes: > What all of this means is that once a list passes N members, where > we can debate about N, the probability that at least one of those > members has already been compromised even before they've joined the > list starts rapidly increasing. This is true, but you've omitt

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Encrypted lists predictable difficulties and implementation needs

2017-03-21 Thread Stephen J. Turnbull
I hope it doesn't surprise anybody that despite being proponent of this project I'm quite sympathetic to Rich. Barry Warsaw writes: > That assumes an open membership policy. Wouldn't much of this be > mitigated with a closed subscription policy? Not if the target membership isn't already para

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Encrypted lists predictable difficulties and implementation needs

2017-03-21 Thread johny
On 03/18/2017 09:04 PM, Rich Kulawiec wrote: > On Fri, Mar 17, 2017 at 09:54:48AM +1100, Morgan Reed wrote: >> I'd submit that this is tantamount to saying "it's impossible to make a >> 100% secure system so why bother even trying". > > Then you're not grasping my point. Let me try again. > > I

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Encrypted lists predictable difficulties and implementation needs

2017-03-21 Thread Rich Kulawiec
On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 04:04:20PM +0100, johny wrote: > Shifting the attacker to actively compromise devices is an overall > improvement. If "compromising devices" was difficult, I might agree. But it's not. Devices of all descriptions have been and are being compromised in enormous numbers on a

Re: [Mailman-Developers] Encrypted lists predictable difficulties and implementation needs

2017-03-21 Thread Rich Kulawiec
On Sun, Mar 19, 2017 at 07:33:24AM -0400, Richard Damon wrote: > I would say that the problem that is being attempted to solve is > fundamentally impossible to do perfectly. It is impossible to distribute > messages in a secure manner to a number of recipients that you don't have > total control ov