[Mailman-Users] Temporarily Disable a List

[Anilkumar Padmaraju]

What is the best way to temporarily disable a list in mailman.  Later if needed 
want to enable back.

Thank you,

Anil.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to make forms use https, not http

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/01/2016 01:07 PM, Brett Delmage wrote:
> 
> Sorry for not finding that answer sooner. I did google, and also try to
> find the Mailman FAQs again but missed it. They are a wealth of buried
> information! Perhaps the word "FAQs" on the front page of list.org could
> link to them? Or please put them in top-level menu on the front page,
> not 3 levels deep.


Thanks for the feedback. I have changed the title of the page itself
from "4.27. Securing Mailman's web GUI by using Secure HTTP/SSL" to
"4.27. Securing Mailman's web GUI by using Secure HTTP/SSL (HTTPS)"
which should help with searching.

The wiki itself is more problematic. The default theme has links to the
6 FAQ sections under "FAQs" in the left sidebar. This should be good
enough, however it's only in the 'listorg' (default) and 'mailman'
themes. If you are logged in and have selected a different theme in your
preferences, you won't see those links on the front page.

As far as the list.org and mirrors are concerned, I will change "Wiki"
in the top menu bar to "Wiki/FAQs". Hopefully this will be more
prominent that the current link in the text of the page.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to make forms use https, not http

[Brett Delmage]

On Thu, 1 Dec 2016, Mark Sapiro wrote:


What am I missing? Thanks!

Step 3 at 


Thanks Mark. That did it :-)

I've taken over and am now running a Mailman list that was going to be 
abandoned in favour of a U.S.-based web forum.


Sorry for not finding that answer sooner. I did google, and also try to 
find the Mailman FAQs again but missed it. They are a wealth of buried 
information! Perhaps the word "FAQs" on the front page of list.org could 
link to them? Or please put them in top-level menu on the front page, not 
3 levels deep.


Brett
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Re: [Mailman-Users] How to make forms use https, not http

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/01/2016 12:07 PM, Brett Delmage wrote:
> 
> A config_list dump for the list doesn't show any relevant http that
> should be changed to https, unless I am missing this.


The relevant list attribute is web_page_url which is not configurable
via the web UI and thus isn't in config_list's output.


> The admin pages display correctly in https, but FORM action still
> submits to a "http" list URL according to the page html source.
> 
> What am I missing? Thanks!


Step 3 at 

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[Mailman-Users] How to make forms use https, not http

[Brett Delmage]

I cannot find where to change admin pages to use https on submission 
instead of http.


My config:

Mailman version 2.1.20 on Ubuntu 16.04

/etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py was changed to
DEFAULT_URL_PATTERN = 'https://%s/mailman/'

A config_list dump for the list doesn't show any relevant http that should 
be changed to https, unless I am missing this.


I  switched the list to https after being created IIRC (after I got the 
SSL certs installed and working)


The admin pages display correctly in https, but FORM action still submits 
to a "http" list URL according to the page html source.


What am I missing? Thanks!

Brett
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Re: [Mailman-Users] munging the To: line?

[Rainer Müller]

On 2016-12-01 19:44, Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 11/30/2016 06:16 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
>>
>> I've got From: munging turned on, so posts to a list I administer come
>> "from" addresses like
>> John Smith via mylist 
>>
>> Frequently, list users will post to the list by replying to a previous
>> message, and I'll end up getting a message with a To: header like
>>
>> To: John Smith via mylist 
> 
> 
> Assuming you are not munging Reply-To:, i.e., reply_goes_to_list is
> Poster, the original message from the list should have headers
> 
> To: myl...@example.com
> From: John Smith via mylist 
> Reply-To: John Smith 
> 
> According to standards, Reply-To: trumps From: for replies and a simple
> 'reply' should be addressed to 'John Smith ' and
> 'reply-all' to 'John Smith ' and
> 'myl...@example.com' from the original To:.
> 
> So part of the issue here is some of your users have misbehaving MUAs,
> but there's little if anything you can do about that.

I have seen posts with the To: pointing to "John Smitch via mylist" as
well. This did not happen on a reply, but on new messages.

The issue exists with MUAs that automatically collect real names and
email addresses from received mails, for example by automatically adding
them to the user's addressbook. When the user then starts to write a new
email to the list, upon entering the list address in the To: field, the
MUA autocompletes and also adds the previously saved real name. If the
user does not pay attention to this detail, they will send the mail with
such a To: address.

Rainer
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Re: [Mailman-Users] munging the To: line?

[Mark Sapiro]

On 11/30/2016 06:16 PM, Joe Pfeiffer wrote:
> 
> I've got From: munging turned on, so posts to a list I administer come
> "from" addresses like
> John Smith via mylist 
> 
> Frequently, list users will post to the list by replying to a previous
> message, and I'll end up getting a message with a To: header like
> 
> To: John Smith via mylist 


Assuming you are not munging Reply-To:, i.e., reply_goes_to_list is
Poster, the original message from the list should have headers

To: myl...@example.com
From: John Smith via mylist 
Reply-To: John Smith 

According to standards, Reply-To: trumps From: for replies and a simple
'reply' should be addressed to 'John Smith ' and
'reply-all' to 'John Smith ' and
'myl...@example.com' from the original To:.

So part of the issue here is some of your users have misbehaving MUAs,
but there's little if anything you can do about that.


> and it goes out to the list with that To: header.
> 
> Since this can be confusing, I'd like to munge the To: line as it
> comes through so it ends up saying
> 
> To: My List 
> 
> Is there a way to do this through standard configuration options (and
> how?), or do I need to write a handler?


All you can do with standard config options is enable Full
Personalization. Then messages will be personalized to each recipient
with headers like

To: 
From: John Smith via mylist 
Reply-To: John Smith 
Cc: 

Then the misbehaving MUAs may still address 'reply all' To: John Smith
via mylist , but that will be replaced in the
outgoing message with the recipient's address.

Otherwise, A custom handler could easily munge a To: (or Cc:) header to
replace any 'xxx via mylist ' with just 'mylist
'

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Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribers being unsubscribed at wrong time based on bounce settings.

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/01/2016 09:13 AM, Christopher Adams wrote:

> I tracked one of the disabled addresses that was unsubscribed. It is the
> same for all that were unsubscribed.
> 
> bounce.log-20161101:Oct 31 16:16:36 2016 (32252) oebbmembers:
> recipi...@wherever.com  current bounce
> score: 2.0
> bounce.log-20161107:Nov 06 15:21:38 2016 (24109) oebbmembers:
> recipi...@wherever.com  current bounce
> score: 3.0
> bounce.log-20161107:Nov 06 15:21:38 2016 (24109) oebbmembers:
> recipi...@wherever.com  disabling due to
> bounce score 3.0 >= 3.0
> bounce.log-20161112:Nov 11 15:56:41 2016 (11544) oebbmembers:
> recipi...@wherever.com  residual bounce
> received
> bounce.log-20161117:Nov 17 09:04:35 2016 (58403) Notifying disabled
> member recipi...@wherever.com  for list:
> oebbmembers
> bounce.log-20161123:Nov 22 10:11:14 2016 (60465) oebbmembers:
> recipi...@wherever.com  residual bounce
> received
> bounce.log-20161125:Nov 24 09:16:14 2016 (35874) Notifying disabled
> member recipi...@wherever.com  for list:
> oebbmembers
> bounce.log-20161125:Nov 24 09:16:14 2016 (35874) oebbmembers:
> recipi...@wherever.com  deleted after
> exhausting notices
> 
> 
> 
> The cron/disabled ran every day during November at 9.



So, if those are the only bounce log entries for recipi...@wherever.com,
that member had delivery disabled by bounce on Nov 6 and was sent the
first notice at that time. Then, I'm guessing, the delivery attempts on
that message "timed out" after 5 days and the notice bounced on Nov 11.
The second notice was sent on Nov 17 and that timed out and bounced on
Nov 22. Then on Nov 24, the member was deleted after exhausting notices.

This can be explained if the list's
bounce_you_are_disabled_warnings_interval was initially > 10 days and
was subsequently reduced to 7 days. This would account for the second
notice not being sent until Nov 17.

The only other possibility I can think of is cron/disabled encountered
some error. One issue around this is that those errors are never seen
because they are mailed by cron to the 'mailman' user, but the 'mailman'
user address is the site list and if the site list is configured to
discard or reject non-member posts, the error report is lost.  There are
two things here:
1) For various reasons, the site list should accept or at least hold
(not reject or discard) non-member posts.
2) Mailman's crontab should include a 'MAILTO=' to mail any output to
the site admin.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Time needed to deliver list messages

[Carl Zwanzig]

On 11/30/2016 12:22 PM, Christian F Buser via Mailman-Users wrote:

their response was "this is normal - there is nothing they can do about it", he 
said.


Once the email is handed off to the MTA, this -is- normal. Email delivery is 
almost never immediate; some lists I'm on take hours to deliver to everyone; 
depends on the server load and any extra processing at both ends.


(On one specific list I read at two mailboxes, a message will appear in the 
first within a minute of sending but will take ten minutes to appear in the 
other.)


Later,

z!

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Failing https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

[Julian H. Stacey]

Mark Sapiro wrote:
> On 12/01/2016 04:48 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> > Hi postmas...@python.org
> > cc: mailman-users@python.org
> > 
> > I sent this to webmas...@mail.python.org per request of your web page
> > 
> > "Julian H. Stacey" wrote:
> >> Hi webmas...@mail.python.org
> >> FYI
> >> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
> >> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.23
> >>
> >> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> >>
> >> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
> >> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
> >> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
> > 
> > I got this inapproprate automatic junk back:
> > 
> >> Sender: "Webmaster" 
> >>
> >> READ THIS!  (If you want help.)
> > 
> > No I dont want help. So noise skipped.
> > Your site asked for help.  Then your site discarded the help you had 
> > requested.
> 
> 
> I'm sorry about that. The message about contacting the webmaster is
> generic, and is not appropriate for mail.python.org. I'll fix that.

Thanks Mark.

> > PS This also fails:
> > https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
> 
> 
> It works for me.

Yes, these work here too now:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce

> Can you be specific about the time this occurred?

Yes, decrement typing time of maybe 2/3 minutes from my ~/mail/sent/ entry
which has 
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 12:26:18 +0100
Subject: bug: 
https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-announce/jhs-list%40berklix.org
To: webmas...@mail.python.org

Sorry I omitted date.

The error was still present after the auto bounce from
webmaster@, when in mail #2 I added 
cc: mailman-users@python.org with
& then for completeness also checked & failed on
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
2nd mail was sent:
Date: Thu, 01 Dec 2016 13:48:24 +0100

> For the last 10 hours or so (from about 06:00 until 16:30 UTC) there was
> a permissions issue in the error log. There is no traceback there, but
> that may be because of the permissions.

Yes my accesses were inside that window.

Thanks for all the time you devote to mailman !

Cheers,
Julian
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Re: [Mailman-Users] subscribers being unsubscribed at wrong time based on bounce settings.

[Christopher Adams]

Sorry if my reply doesn't follow the standards for reply, but gmail is not
quoting messages as it usually does.

---
I tracked one of the disabled addresses that was unsubscribed. It is the
same for all that were unsubscribed.

bounce.log-20161101:Oct 31 16:16:36 2016 (32252) oebbmembers:
recipi...@wherever.com current bounce score: 2.0
bounce.log-20161107:Nov 06 15:21:38 2016 (24109) oebbmembers:
recipi...@wherever.com current bounce score: 3.0
bounce.log-20161107:Nov 06 15:21:38 2016 (24109) oebbmembers:
recipi...@wherever.com disabling due to bounce score 3.0 >= 3.0
bounce.log-20161112:Nov 11 15:56:41 2016 (11544) oebbmembers:
recipi...@wherever.com residual bounce received
bounce.log-20161117:Nov 17 09:04:35 2016 (58403) Notifying disabled member
recipi...@wherever.com for list: oebbmembers
bounce.log-20161123:Nov 22 10:11:14 2016 (60465) oebbmembers:
recipi...@wherever.com residual bounce received
bounce.log-20161125:Nov 24 09:16:14 2016 (35874) Notifying disabled member
recipi...@wherever.com for list: oebbmembers
bounce.log-20161125:Nov 24 09:16:14 2016 (35874) oebbmembers:
recipi...@wherever.com deleted after exhausting notices



The cron/disabled ran every day during November at 9.

I think all of the unsubscribes were because of being disabled due to
bounce settings. The "valid" addresses were also disabled and unsubscribed,
but that is aside from this and something that the customer needs to deal
with.

I learned something new - disabled and unsubscribed addresses receive a
message regardless of the other list settings for receiving messages when
unsubscribed. Thanks.

I am not sure if the bounce settings for the list were changed after 11/1.
I don't suppose that logs reflect this. I will take it up with the
customer. This seems to be the lone remaining question.

Thank you for the information, Mark.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Failing https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/01/2016 04:48 AM, Julian H. Stacey wrote:
> Hi postmas...@python.org
> cc: mailman-users@python.org
> 
> I sent this to webmas...@mail.python.org per request of your web page
> 
> "Julian H. Stacey" wrote:
>> Hi webmas...@mail.python.org
>> FYI
>> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
>> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.23
>>
>> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
>>
>> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
>> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but 
>> the webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 
> 
> I got this inapproprate automatic junk back:
> 
>> Sender: "Webmaster" 
>>
>> READ THIS!  (If you want help.)
> 
> No I dont want help. So noise skipped.
> Your site asked for help.  Then your site discarded the help you had 
> requested.


I'm sorry about that. The message about contacting the webmaster is
generic, and is not appropriate for mail.python.org. I'll fix that.


> PS This also fails:
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users


It works for me. Can you be specific about the time this occurred?

For the last 10 hours or so (from about 06:00 until 16:30 UTC) there was
a permissions issue in the error log. There is no traceback there, but
that may be because of the permissions.

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[Mailman-Users] munging the To: line?

[Joe Pfeiffer]

I've searched the archives and the FAQs; if I've missed something
please point me to it.

I've got From: munging turned on, so posts to a list I administer come
"from" addresses like
John Smith via mylist 

Frequently, list users will post to the list by replying to a previous
message, and I'll end up getting a message with a To: header like

To: John Smith via mylist 

and it goes out to the list with that To: header.

Since this can be confusing, I'd like to munge the To: line as it
comes through so it ends up saying

To: My List 

Is there a way to do this through standard configuration options (and
how?), or do I need to write a handler?
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[Mailman-Users] Failing https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

[Julian H. Stacey]

Hi postmas...@python.org
cc: mailman-users@python.org

I sent this to webmas...@mail.python.org per request of your web page

https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Bug in Mailman version 2.1.23

We're sorry, we hit a bug!

Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the 
webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 


"Julian H. Stacey" wrote:
> Hi webmas...@mail.python.org
> FYI
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-announce
> Bug in Mailman version 2.1.23
> 
> We're sorry, we hit a bug!
> 
> Please inform the webmaster for this site of this problem. Printing of 
> traceback and other system information has been explicitly inhibited, but the 
> webmaster can find this information in the Mailman error logs. 

I got this inapproprate automatic junk back:

> Sender: "Webmaster" 
> 
> READ THIS!  (If you want help.)

No I dont want help. So noise skipped.
Your site asked for help.  Then your site discarded the help you had requested.

PS This also fails:
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users

Cheers,
Julian
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