[Mailman-Users] Rejecting all addresses from a particular domain ?
Hi, thanks to the Mailman FAQ I have a fairly good idea how to do the following BUT I am not very familiar with regexp. Could someone here help me with the exact syntax please ? I want to automatically discard all non-subscribers who attempt to subscribe from the .ua domain (Ukraine ?) In other words, what do I put in "List of non-member addresses whose postings will be automatically discarded" ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: https://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
On Fri, 9 Mar 2012 19:18:53 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
John Fitzsimons wrote:
Hi Mark, thank you for your speedy/detailed reply. :-)
When Gmane sends messages (posted through the news-to-mail gateway)
to
the mailing lists, it uses the subscribed email address as the MAIL
FROM
envelope header. If your mailing list software discriminates based
on
the MAIL FROM instead of the From: header (the latter is more usual),
then you may see stuff like that...
They are telling you that there is a Gmane address which is a member of
your list that is how gmane receives messages posted to your list.
Well, I know that that is how it is meant to work BUT the post I asked
about shows a from address like some...@tormail.net . My mailing
list doesn't have anyone with that address on it.
When someone posts to your list on Gmane, Gmane sends that post to
your list with the envelope sender (SMTP MAIL FROM address) equal to
the Gmane address that's a member of your list.
That doesn't appear to be happening.
Mailman in turn checks every address found in any of the places listed
in the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting SENDER_HEADERS, and if any of
these is a list member, the is considered to be from first member
address found.
Well, I don't know how it can find an address that doesn't appear to
be there. :-(
It is not clear to me whether this post was held as a post from a
moderated member or just went to the list.
He/she doesn't appear to be a member at all.
If it just went to the list
and you want it to be held, just set the mod flag on the subscribed
Gmane address and it will be held as a post from a moderated member.
It doesn't appear to be a subscribed address.
If, on the other hand, you want it treated as a non-member post, you
have to override SENDER_HEADERS in mm_cfg.py. The default setting is
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', None, 'reply-to', 'sender')
which says places checked in order are the From: header, the envelope
sender, the Reply-To: header and the Sender: header. The None entry in
the above list refers to the envelope sender. If you just want to stop
considering the envelope sender and keep all the others, you would set
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', 'reply-to', 'sender')
in mm_cfg.py. If you wanted to consider only the From: header, you
could set
SENDER_HEADERS = ('from', )
in mm_cfg.py (the comma and parens are significant here).
Note that this is a global setting and affects all lists in the
installation.
The problem is that this is on a hosted site so I cannot change the
main Mailman files.
IF I understand things correctly you/Gmane seem to be saying that
somewhere in the envelope header is the address of someone on my list.
Not necessarily in the 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' areas.
Is that correct ?
In any case what does envelope header mean ? Does it mean in the
sender's header in areas other than 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender' ?
In any case it looks like changing things in the SENDER_HEADERS in
mm_cfg.py will enable me to better restrict posters to those on my
registered posters list and/or make it so that posters have to put
their approved address in eg. the 'from', 'reply-to', 'sender'
slots, so to speak.
So can I make this change via my GUI in Windows XP ?
If you/anyone else here can give me an answer to this question, and
give me a step by step as to how to change things via windows, it
will be appreciated.
Regards, John.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
On Fri, 16 Mar 2012 19:58:25 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip Yes, but what happened to the post? Did it go directly to the list or It went to the mailing list and the Gmane newsgroup without me seeing it first. was it held for moderator action for some reason? If the latter, for what reason? If it just went to the list and you want it to be held, just set the mod flag on the subscribed Gmane address and it will be held as a post from a moderated member. It doesn't appear to be a subscribed address. I'm talking about the Gmane address that is subscribed to your list, not some address that happened to be in the From: header of the particular message. Ah ! Gmane's subscription address ? If I put the mod flag on that then every poster would effectively be moderated wouldn't they ? Though your next paragraph suggests that that wouldn't happen. snip What you need to do is go to the web admin Membership List pages for your list and find the Gmane address that is a member of your list and make sure its mod box is checked. That way, any non-member posts from Gmane, regardless of who they are From: should be held for moderation and you can accept them or not as you see fit. Okay, so I put the Gmane subscription address as mod ? You said in your original post that your list was moderated. What does that mean to you? It means that people not on my mailing list should not be able to have emails go to the mailing list or the Gmane newsgroup. Does it mean all the member's mod boxes are checked No. and Privacy options... - Sender filters - default_member_moderation is set to Yes so that new members are also have their mod boxes checked by default, or does it mean something else? default_member_moderation is set to No. I assumed that the new list member postings are those people I have okayed to join the mailing list. Also, what do you mean by registered posters? Is this just the list membership, or is it something else? If I knew exactly, I might be able to suggest other things. The list membership. Thank you for your help, and explanation. It is slowly making sense to me. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] MAIL FROM envelope header query.
Hi, I have a Mailman 2.1.14 *moderated* list that goes to Gmane for newsgroup access. The other day a post was made from someone who didn't appear to be on my list. I wasn't sure whether this was due to an error at my end, or at Gmane's. So I queried them. The problem however is that I didn't understand their reply but more importantlyhow to fix things so it doesn't happen again ! Can someone here read the following and tell me if/how I can put a stop to people not on my mailing list, posting please ? When Gmane sends messages (posted through the news-to-mail gateway) to the mailing lists, it uses the subscribed email address as the MAIL FROM envelope header. If your mailing list software discriminates based on the MAIL FROM instead of the From: header (the latter is more usual), then you may see stuff like that... I have been using Mailman for a time, but still consider myself a newbie, so any help on this would be appreciated. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Getting rid of footer ?
Hi, I am using the CPanel approach to Mailman. The footer to every post has.. ___ my mailing list myl...@mydomain http://mydomain Is there some way to ensure that the above does NOT appear on every post please ? If so then where/how do I remove it please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Getting rid of footer ?
On Tue, 23 Feb 2010 13:53:59 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Is there some way to ensure that the above does NOT appear on every post please ? If so then where/how do I remove it please ? The web admin interface Non-digest options msg_footer. Wow ! Truly staring me in the face. Thank you Mark for your speedy reply. I had hoped it would be easy to change but had ignored anything to do with digests as I haven't enabled them. As usual, your help is very much appreciated. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Hiding sender info query.
Hi, I have a mailing list that is set to Require approval for membership. So if people aren't Members they cannot post. If I select .. Hide the sender of a message, replacing it with the list address (Removes From, Sender and Reply-To fields) (1) ...will all the members still be able to post as before ? Or will it effectively make everyone anonymous and as I don't have a member called anonymous reject all posts ? (2) If I set the above and Fred Smith posted then would the name Fred Smith appear anywhere in the email that other list members receive from him ? Can anyone here give me help on either/both questions please ? Ideally I would want list members to know who is posting but not their private email address. I am using a cPanel setup. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] New mailing list moderation in cPanel ?
I just made a new mailing list. Moderation of posts seems to be set as the default, but I am pretty sure that I didn't set that up anywhere. The member list doesn't show the moderation flag ticked. In the Privacy options I have By default, should new list member postings be moderated? set to No. I am obviously missing something obvious. Would someone here please direct me to where member moderation is set/un set in cPanel please ? Thanks. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] New mailing list moderation in cPanel ?
On Fri, 29 Jan 2010 16:37:44 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: I am obviously missing something obvious. Would someone here please direct me to where member moderation is set/un set in cPanel please ? What is the exact reason for the held post(s)? Post by non-member to a members-only list I hadn't expected that message as I was sure that the person who posted was already a member. Looks like she was a bit fast in posting. Things seem okay now. Thank you for your help. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 27 Jan 2010 05:57:44 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: There appears to be a problem here. I get an error. Here is what happened.. C:\mailman-subscribers.py -c http://domain listname_domain password That is not correct. The first argument is just the host name (domain) without any http:// Actually, I did try with, and without, the http. The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect. That error doesn't come from the script. Okay, I tried it again with a different mailing list. It worked. It looks like I must have initially entered something wrong with the password. snip Also, I don't suppose that there is a script to collect all the customising that one has done with a mailing list is there ? It's called bin/config_list, but you probably can't run it in cPanel. If you mean a script analagous to mailman-subscribers.py that will get the information via the web interface, I'm not aware of any. Okay, thank you. Maybe a way for windows users to easily print out all the customising one does on a list would be handy for 3.0 ? So that when one gets things just right it is easy to reproduce in future lists. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:33:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, snip You can use something like Jim T's and my mailman-subscribers.py script[1] to screen scrape the web admin Membership List and make a .csv file of the membership together with those options except language that are on the Membership List pages, snip It accesses the list's admin Membership Management... - Membership List pages and parses them to get the data. snip There appears to be a problem here. I get an error. Here is what happened.. C:\mailman-subscribers.py -c http://domain listname_domain password The filename, directory name, or volume label syntax is incorrect. Also, I don't suppose that there is a script to collect all the customising that one has done with a mailing list is there ? Thanks. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:42:25 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Mark Sapiro writes: snip Eventually, we'll find out if it works. I suspect it does, Preliminary testing suggests that it IS working. I do too, because larsi is not an idiot. I have to imagine that like 99% of messages that get moderated into oblivion are spam. Gmane doesn't want their archives filled with that crap, so they'll archive from the moderated stream. This is starting to look pretty good, actually. We can hope that this solution will serve John until MM3 goes gold (with an NNTP server :-9. Should I be urgently reading up on unix so that I can help out with the Mailman NNTP server betas ? :-) Bye the way, I would strongly suggest to Barry that he consider contacting Thomas G. Liesner, the guy who wrote Hamster. Hamster is a windows freeware news/email proxy server His home page is here http://tglsoft.de/ . An English download page is http://www.arcorhome.de/newshamster/tgl/misc/hamster_en.html His address is Thomas G. Liesner hamster AT tglsoft.de This is a top class program that I have been using for over ten years. Thomas has done a great job and appears to be a very nice guy. Hamster source code can also be downloaded from the above link. I would not be surprised to find out that Thomas has some unix knowledge and/or knows someone who may have done some work towards porting it to a unix platform. Here are some screen shots I did ages ago FWIW. http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/lservers.jpg http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/pservers.jpg http://clients.net2000.com.au/~johnf/fullonm.jpg Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 12:59:20 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: Geoff Shang wrote: On Fri, 22 Jan 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: If your FTP session is not chrooted to your own home directory or some other limitation, you chould be able to find them. But presumably not delete them. Presumably not, but it wouldn't be the first time that people had permission to do things via FTP that they shouldn't be able to do because not allowing them a shell was enough. Thank you both for that info. I am not sure that I have the knowledge/confidence to go looking into directories that aren't my home directory. In any case even if I did succeed it could probably get me into trouble with my hoster. But this does lead me to think of a few more questions. If I closed my mailing list then wouldn't all the Mailman archive files be deleted ? If I did that then I could presumably start the list again. Identical to the previous list. But with archiving turned off from the beginning ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:12:46 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip If I did that then I could presumably start the list again. Identical to the previous list. But with archiving turned off from the beginning ? The drawback is all user options/passwords/etc. get lost. Yes, the loss of user options I can live with BUT the loss of passwords would be a concern. In this case the Gmane subscription. If I un subscribed them, then re-subscribed them, wouldn't I need to get an email response from them to complete their re-subscription ? Or is there some way, using CPanel, to subscribe someone without needing to wait for any response from them ? Also, talking about passwords. Is there any way, as systems administrator, to know member passwords using CPanel ? You can use something like Jim T's and my mailman-subscribers.py script[1] to screen scrape the web admin Membership List and make a .csv file of the membership together with those options except language that are on the Membership List pages, Thanks, I am using windows. Not too keen on trying to get scripts to work on a windows display. Though, after your comments, I might take a look at a windows scraper I have. Though that is intended for edit boxes. but restoring them is tedious. OTOH, if you don't care about preserving these, you can just mass subscribe the list and you're done. Sorry, I am not with you there. What do you mean by mass subscribe the list ? [1] http://www.msapiro.net/scripts/mailman-subscribers.py or http://fog.ccsf.cc.ca.us/~msapiro/scripts/mailman-subscribers.py. This script runs on your workstation and requires Python be installed there. Okay. Thank you. Bye the way, talking about scripting. I just heard about a program that might interest you/other coders here. Highlight converts source code to formatted text with syntax highlighting. * Coloured output in HTML, XHTML, RTF, TeX, LaTeX, SVG, BBCode and XML format * Supports 150+ programming languages * Includes 40 colour themes * Recognizes nested languages * Platform independent (CLI, GUI, Lib) http://www.andre-simon.de/doku/highlight/en/highlight_screenshots.html Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 16:33:07 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Yes, the loss of user options I can live with BUT the loss of passwords would be a concern. In this case the Gmane subscription. I don't think the password of the Gmane subscription to the Mailman list is important. You are probably correct. If I can un-subscribe them, and then re-subscribe them, without them being contacted it would save me/ them tedious, and unnecessary, communication. snip The web admin Membership Management... - Mass Subscription page should do it. Excellent ! Being a newbie I hadn't noticed that. Looks like it could be very handy to have in some circumstances. Thank you. snip The script is not a screen scraper in that sense. It accesses the list's admin Membership Management... - Membership List pages and parses them to get the data. Via my browser, or via an FTP logon ? I am using a windows system and CPanel. snip Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 16:38:23 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, snip Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail-News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? The gateway Mailman - Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway Gmane - Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that aren't ? Until somebody tells us what headers Gmane provides to identify itself, we can only guess at what might work. Well, looking for gmane headers on a post gives me something like... Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail Approved: n...@gmane.org by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: Xref: news.gmane.org ... Archived-At: http://permalink.gmane.org/listname I have no idea how any of that could help filter out posts that aren't from legitimate subscribers. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, snip Gmane runs a news server, but that is not how it gateways mailing lists. Mailman's Mail-News gateway is irrelevant unless you or your ISP has configured it; Gmane can't do that for you. Well, I configured it. Thinking that it needed to be set. Doesn't that setting do anything ? Or does it only work with some news servers and not others ? How does one know which news server that works with and which news server it doesn't work with ? I don't know about cPanel, but this is what a vanilla Mailman provides as options for the news-mail gateway: 1. The hostname of the machine your news server is running on. [ ] 2. The name of the Usenet group to gateway to and/or from. [ ] 3. Should new posts to the mailing list be sent to the newsgroup? NoYes 4. Should new posts to the newsgroup be sent to the mailing list? NoYes 5. Forwarding options [ ] 6. The moderation policy of the newsgroup. [ ] AFAIK the gateway service of Gmane is *not* accessible from most Usenet hosts; Yep. But we are talking about newsgroup access here. Not usenet. There are a number of newsgroup servers around the world that aren't usenet. The GRC ones come to mind. you need to go directly to Gmane for that. Agreed. Though I fail to see what that has to do with a news server gateway. Surely the Mailman setting can only accept one news server address at a time ? So whether the server is peering to hundreds/thousands of other servers is surely irrelevant ? So unless the you configured Gmane as the news server (question 1) and a I did. specific newsgroup to gateway your list to (question 2), I did. nothing will happen. Since you don't have a newsgroup as far as I know, there's nowhere for mailman to gateway to. Note that question 6 is the policy of the newsgroup, *not* your list. No help there. Yes, that is ideally where authentication should operate. Each legitimate member should be allocated a valid login password. Hopefully Barry will provide that capability if he can add a news server option to Mailman. The gateway Mailman - Gmane is the Gmane subscription. If you remove that Gmane users cannot read posts to your mailing list. The gateway Gmane - Mailman is plain old email same as for any member or spammer. The only control you have is to use Mailman filters on incoming posts. Could you please explain that a little ? In principle how would filters help ? Wouldn't all posts from Gmane have the same added headers ? Those that are from legitimate posters and those that aren't ? Yes. What you're missing is that Gmane won't spoof other members, so if another member is there in From, Sender or envelope sender, you pass it. (In practice, the only one that your users are likely to be able to set, or have set appropriately by their ISP, is From.) If it's just Gmane, you don't. *If* Gmane is in the Sender header, Could you please clarify those words ? *If* Gmane is in the Sender header. The sender header appears to be the list address. There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be. Here are some of the headers as they appear when they arrive at the mailing list. Are any of them able to be used in filtering ? Return-path: listname-boun...@mydomain Envelope-to: m...@mydomain Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=panda.hostingbay.net) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from listname-boun...@mydomain) id 1NXp0j-0004O3-Kl for m...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:13 +1100 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-listn...@m.gmane.org) id 1NXp0a-0004MT-1K for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 15:51:11 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXp0W-0003h5-6a for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 Received: from c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au ([114.76.0.218]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 Received: from gmane by c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for listn...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 05:51:00 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: listn...@mydomain From: John Fitzsimons m...@mydomain Message-ID: hqmfl5tcd0p6dl7q11j3hp7coltf9on...@4ax.com X-Complaints-To: use...@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: c114-76-0-218.eburwd4.vic.optusnet.com.au X-BeenThere: listn...@mydomain Precedence: list Reply-To: Computer Freeware Discussion listn...@mydomain Sender
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 19:29:50 -0500, William Bagwell wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010, William Bagwell wrote: On Wednesday 20 January 2010, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip It translates to http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/myma il inglist.mbox snip Tried your 'corrected' link in a diffrent browser, got the authentication page, logged in with user name and password and promptly got the Private archive file not found error again. Looked at the URL and it was now missing the first .mbox. Opened a new tab, pasted in the full correct URL and it pulled down a complete archive. I can get to my archive by going to.. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/ The messages show okay but without header info. If I do what you did above and use .. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox I get No such list mymailinglist. snip Knowing the true location of archives is useful right now. I would like to know how to access the archive file so that I can delete it by FTP. I cannot however find it ! Maybe my web hoster has somehow made the directory invisible ? Pity CPanel doesn't have a Delete Archive button. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:09:20 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: If I do what you did above and use .. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox I get No such list mymailinglist. As I have tried to say before, where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list name of the form listname_mydomain. Okay, that makes things clearer. Thank you. I have now tried the following. (1) Log into my mailinglist administrative interface. (2) In CPanel clicked on Go to list archives (3) I now see the list archives (but no headers). (4) I now put the following address in... http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox and get... Private archive file not found Now, the first page shows an archive. So I expected the second page to. The reason it doesn't may have to do with my changing the Archive messages? setting to No a few days ago. Perhaps that is the problem ? Not the incorrect path ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:18:10 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote:
John Fitzsimons wrote:
Hi Mark,
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 00:28:57 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote:
Could you please clarify those words ? *If* Gmane is in the Sender
header. The sender header appears to be the list address.
This is all irrelevant. Since the posts from Gmane are arriving via the
NNTP gateway, no membership tests whatsoever are applied to the post -
no list member, no moderation, no *_these_nonmembers.
Okay, so to authenticate a small number of people eg. dozens what
should I have ?
(1) The Gmane subscription ?
(2) The gateway ?
(3) Both ?
Just tell me what you think is best. You are the expert here. Not me.
I am the dummy.
I very much appreciate your help. At the end of the day however I want
to impliment a system that actually works !
There are so many headers I am totally confused as to which ones
can/should be filtered on and which ones shouldn't be.
You can use header_filter_rules to hold a post from the news gateway.
You can filter on any header you want, but this won't work well unless
you have fery few authorized posters.
Well, is there a practical limit to the term very few ? Initially I
hope to increase subscribers to dozens. The number could however
reach something like a hundred. Would that break Mailman ? What
dictates how many are too many ?
snip
As I am an authorised poster the sort of filter that would be needed
that comes to mind would be something like...
DELETE ! From: {...@mydomain | mem...@hisdomain}
But I have no idea how that would need to be implimented in Mailman.
Like the following in Privacy options... - Spam filters -
header_filter_rules
First rule:
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
(either additional rules or additional regexps in the First rule for
additional posters)
Ah ! I like that. Do I insert the above EXACTLY as you have suggested
?
regexp: ^from:.*[ ]...@mydomain([ ]|$)
action: Accept
I need both the regexp AND action items ?
Also, at what approximate number would you recommend expanding the
first filter rule in preference to adding new ones ? I am guessing
that there may be some sort of a limit set as to how many characters
in total can be in that box ?
Last rule
regexp: ^X-Injected-Via-Gmane:
action: Discard
Okay.
snip
They could post to Gmane via NNTP with Gmane sending to your list via
email.
Okay, so if I get rid of the gateway settings the above filters will
still work ?
If so, it's little help, because
the headers should be quite different from a mailed post.)
Okay, see the added info I provided above.
Which contrary to your Here are some of the headers as they appear
when they arrive at the mailing list. assertion appear to be the
headers from a post delivered from Mailman, not the headers of the
post as it arrived to Mailman.
Good point. Sorry. If I could show you the raw header info then I
would.
Note that Mailman has rewritten the Sender: and envelope sender
(reflected as Return-Path:) and added Errors-To: and maybe Reply-To:
[...]
If not, and Gmane *isn't* in one of From, Sender, or envelope sender,
then I don't understand how posts from unsubscribed addresses via
Gmane are getting through, since IIRC you said earlier you have
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. Right?
Sorry, your terminology has confused me here. What do you mean by
'generic_nonmember_action' set to 'Hold'. ?
He means the setting near the bottom of the list admin Privacy
options... - Sender filters page.
Ah ! Sorry. I am still very much a newbie here. I have
By default, should new list member postings be moderated? set to No
and
Action to take when a moderated member posts to the list. set to
Hold.
I am not sure if I need to change either/both of those settings to
make sure the filtering you recommend works.
I have setup the list as Require approval. Is that what you mean ?
That is presumably Privacy options... - Subscription rules -
subscribe_policy - not the same thing at all.
Okay, thanks. I will not change that then.
Regards, John.
--
Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org
http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users
Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3
Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9
Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/
Unsubscribe:
http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:21:49 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip I don't know why this is so hard, but the URL is http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox/mymailinglist_mydomain.mbox Try that one. Worked perfectly ! Thank you. Is this all you need ? From gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org Thu Jan 21 00:10:24 2010 Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]) by panda.hostingbay.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org) id 1NXaKC-0008HY-Ns for myl...@mydomain; Thu, 21 Jan 2010 00:10:24 +1100 Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.50) id 1NXaKA-92-IA for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from 78.151.127.180 ([78.151.127.180]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 Received: from poster by 78.151.127.180 with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for myl...@mydomain; Wed, 20 Jan 2010 14:10:18 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ To: myl...@mydomain From: poster pos...@hotmail.com Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:09:44 - Message-ID: hj6vao$ro...@ger.gmane.org X-Complaints-To: use...@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: 78.151.127.180 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8089.726 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8089.726 Sender: news n...@ger.gmane.org X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.3 X-Spam-Score: 23 X-Spam-Bar: ++ X-Spam-Flag: NO Subject: [mylist] Zip Extract X-BeenThere: myl...@mydomain X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12.cp3 Precedence: list Reply-To: List info myl...@mydomain List-Id: List info mylist_mydomain.mydomain List-Unsubscribe: http://mydomain/mailman/options/mylist_mydomain, mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://mydomain/pipermail/mylist_mydomain List-Help: mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=help List-Subscribe: http://mydomain/mailman/listinfo/mylist_mydomain, mailto:mylist-requ...@mydomain?subject=subscribe X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2010 13:10:25 - Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 20:17:32 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, snip This message was delivered by email from Gmane to mailman. It was apperently posted via NNTP to Gmane by the poster and then mailed by Gmane to the list. Hopefully Gmane waits for the reply to the list email before it accepts the post. Here are the relevant things. The envelope is from gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org The Sender: is news n...@ger.gmane.org The From: is poster pos...@hotmail.com Presumably either gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org or n...@ger.gmane.org is a member of your list. Most likely gcf-myl...@m.gmane.org as n...@ger.gmane.org seems more generic. Correct. Here's what you do: snip Wow ! That looks impressive. I will have to read that carefully, apply the steps, and do some testing. Thank you for your amazing patience and help with this. It is very much appreciated. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:35:32 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jan 20, 2010, at 03:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, snip Hey, if there's stuff we can steal or integrate with, all the better! I have a saying: the best bass amp there is, is the one you don't have to bring. :) I am not sure whether you could get/see the source code for either of these BUT in any case they might give you a few ideas. Even though not exactly what we have been discussing. http://henmedia.de/index.php?option=com_contenttask=viewid=15Itemid=35 and.. http://sourceforge.net/projects/m2f/ Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 10:42:43 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Does anyone here know what actually goes to Mailman from Gmane ? I think you are in the best position to answer that. Er. No. I don't. I don't have root access to my hosted server, and have no idea where my Mailman logs, or archives, are kept. Your reply to Young, Darren suggests /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list/index.html file /usr/local/mailman/archives/private/list.mbox/ When I FTP to my site I see... No usr directory. No local directory. No mailman directory. No archives directory. No private directory etc. (1) Is it simply an email, with Gmane as the sender ? With no mention of the newsgroup poster in any of the headers ? I assume it is an email unless you have set up a MailNews Gateway to poll Gmane. I have that setup. I don't however know that it is needed. From what I can see Gmane gets it's input as a result of.. (1) It's subscription to my mailing list (2) The gateway setup. I don't understand why both are needed. IMO one, OR the other, should cover things. Assuming that NNTP posting does NOT result in a post to their server but instead results in an email to the mailing list first. (2) Is there anything contained in any of the headers from Gmane that refers to the newsgroup poster ? Is not the poster's address in the From: header? Well, I didn't know the answer to that question. Fortunately however someone here was good enough to send me a header example and it appears that the poster of a newsgroup post appears at least twice. In the newsgroup post header as.. From: Fred Smith f...@myisp.com and in the header sent by Gmane. From: Fred Smith f...@myisp.com snip What follows refers to a default installation of GNU Mailman except for one guess at a cPanel URL. It may or may not apply to cPanel. Also, some of these thing are site configuration settings that can be overridden by a packager (cPanel) or an installation (your ISP). Mailman has two concepts of the sender of a post. One is used to determine whether or not the sender is a list member and the other is used after it is determined that the post is not from a member to determine if the sender is in *_these_nonmembers. The first test is to inspect all addresses from the following in order (determined by the setting of SENDER_HEADERS) 1) the From: header 2) the 'unix from' or envelope sender 3) the Reply-To: header 4) the Sender: header If any of these addresses matches a list member, the post is determined to be a member post from the first found member address and handled accordingly. If the post is not from a member as above it is from the address in the From: header. If there is no From:, it is the address in the Sender: header and if there is neither, it is the envelope sender (unix from) (the from/sender order is reversed if USE_ENVELOPE_SENDER = Yes). Is some Gmane address a member of your list? If so, and that address is in one of 2 - 4 above, that's why non-member posts get to your list from Gmane. Yes, Gmane is subscribed as a Gmane Administrator. I think you can see a full, raw message from Gmane if your list has archives. For a cPanel list x...@example.com, you would go to http://example.com/mailman/private/xyz_example.com.mbox/xyz_example.com.mbox This requires authentication for the private archive (even if the list's archive is public), but at least in standard Mailman the equivalent URL will return the entire raw archive mailbox. There, you should be able to find posts from Gmane and see all the headers. When I look at the archives I don't see the header info. Which, normally I would be quite happy about. Anything that helps keep things more private the better. So now, here is my next question. If I setup the Gmane address for moderation and then put the subscriber's address in under List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. Would that help to plug the Gmane hole ? In other words restrict posting from Gmane to only those who are listed as subscribers ? Can anyone here answer that question and/or express a view on the possibility of this approach working please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:31:06 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Mark, snip I think you can see a full, raw message from Gmane if your list has archives. For a cPanel list x...@example.com, you would go to http://example.com/mailman/private/xyz_example.com.mbox/xyz_example.com.mbox This requires authentication for the private archive (even if the list's archive is public), but at least in standard Mailman the equivalent URL will return the entire raw archive mailbox. I have no idea how close to standard Mailman my system is. It is a hosted system. IIRC I added the mailing list via CPanel. There, you should be able to find posts from Gmane and see all the headers. When I look at the archives I don't see the header info. Which, normally I would be quite happy about. Anything that helps keep things more private the better. Did you actually go to a URL for your archive based on the template above? If you did, what happened. If you didn't, then do it. I went to the list info page where it says... To see the collection of prior postings to the list, visit the xxx Archives. The address was... http://mydomain/pipermail/mymailinglist Though I don't see that directory when I FTP to my site. If I try your address I think it would translate to.. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist/.mbox I then get.. xxmailinglist Private Archives Authentication Then... Private archive file not found So now, here is my next question. If I setup the Gmane address for moderation and then put the subscriber's address in under List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. Would that help to plug the Gmane hole ? In other words restrict posting from Gmane to only those who are listed as subscribers ? Can anyone here answer that question and/or express a view on the possibility of this approach working please ? It is complicated as I indicated in my original reply. It would help if You went to an archive URL based on the template I gave and actually found a message. I have no difficulty finding a message in my archive. It is finding header info that is the problem. But, the answer to your exact question is No. In your scenario, the post will presumably be 'from' the Gmane address so it will be hels as a post from a moderated member. *_these_nonmembers only applies to non-member posts. Now, you could make all those authorized posters members of your list (perhaps with no mail delivery and no password reminders), and that would work if the posts are From: them. Then I think you could moderate the Gmane address, and if it's the envelope sender, and/or Sender:, the member address in From: will take priority and determine what is done with the post. Yes, I think you are confirming what I am thinking of trying out. To block (moderate) everything from Gmane and then add all my subscribers in the List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted. So, this list would actually be working as a form of White List. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 16:51:21 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip If I try your address I think it would translate to.. http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist/.mbox I then get.. xxmailinglist Private Archives Authentication Then... Private archive file not found It translates to http://mydomain/mailman/private/mymailinglist/mymailinglist.mbox/mymailinglist.mbox where mydomain is your host name and mymailinglist is the cPanel list name of the form listname_mydomain. Note that mymailinglist.mbox appears twice, as a directory and a file. Either way I get the same result. snip If the Gmane address is a moderated member, you will never get to accept_these_nonmembers (List of non-member addresses whose postings should be automatically accepted.) because this only applies to non-member posts and the post will be from a moderated member. The post is from a moderated member, Gmane, HOWEVER the header that is part of the Gmane post says.. From: Fred Smith f...@myisp.com I was hoping that that header would take priority over the other Gmane headers if I blocked Gmane and had a whitelist. I think the Received: from address is Gmane. Would that header be authenticated AFTER the To: one ? So even though the post comes from Gmane the From: info doesn't have their address. It instead has the address of the person posting to the newsgroup. Either the Gmane address is not a member at all, or the 'white-listed' addresses have to be members, which I *think* will have priority because they are in From: If I unsubscribed Gmane as a member then would the Mailman gateway settings still result in messages going to, and from, the newsgroup ? In other words, does anyone here know whether the Gmane subscription is needed ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 01:47:09 -0500, Terri Oda wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Terri, I have also contributed to public, and private, newsgroup servers for more than ten years now. However, I am not a unix expert and I do not have root access to a unix server. Incidentally, if the problem is just one of access to a unix machine, the Systers group had a really nice little set up where they had a linux virtual machine, running mailman, set up to run in virtualbox. That meant we could do testing on all the laptops: mac/windows/solaris/etc. Is there a brothers group for us guys ? :-) I totally understand if you don't have time to learn all this stuff, but if you're willing to learn, you can install virtualbox (http://www.virtualbox.org/), get a linux vm (or install one yourself -- I usually recommend Ubuntu for a quick and easy install), and install Mailman. It's a bit time consuming, but it's not actually as hard as instructions make it sound, generally speaking. Thank you for the link. There may be some instructions or links to the vms we were using here (or elsewhere in the systers wiki): http://systers.org/systers-soc/doku.php/getting_started Maybe, but such items as Install Python, sudo access etc. don't mean a lot to us non unix people. With all your testing experience, it'd be totally awesome if you could grab the new mailman 3 alpha and test that! And at worst, if you don't manage to get it running, you're still testing the instructions and that's still totally useful. :) Terri Probably, but the amount of hand holding I would need would probably annoy everyone. Though I did install linux a few years ago when doing some computing studies. I will however think about your suggestion. Thank you. For the moment though my full attention is in getting an authenticated news server running. Something that is increasingly looking like an impossibility. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 18:12:08 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip In other words, does anyone here know whether the Gmane subscription is needed ? Presumably it is needed if you are gatewaing from Mailman to Gmane because that's how messages get to Gmane from Mailman. Unless of course gatwaying to/from Gmane is via Mailman's NNTP Mail-News gateway. Then it's a totally different story, and everything I've been saying is irrelevant, but I don't think that's how this is working. Well, has anyone here with a Gmane newsgroup deleted the Gmane email subscription and seen whether Mailman's Mail-News gateway sends messages in both directions okay ? Unfortunately I don't have a Gmane test account. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
I am hoping that someone here has an account with Gmane. This is what I did. Doing beta testing. I posted to my newsgroup from an address that is NOT on my mailing list. I then got the Gmane Authorization required email which starts.. This is a non-public mailing list, which means that you have to subscribe to the list to post to it.. Knowing I wasn't subscribed with that address I replied. To see what would happen. Then I got the next Gmane email... You are now authorized to post to the xx newsgroup. etc. I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post forwarded to the newsgroup. Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? The list was originally setup as a confirm subscription list but is now a Require approval list. This is what the subscription page says... Subscribe to x by filling out the following form. This is a closed list, which means your subscription will be held for approval. You will be notified of the list moderator's decision by email. So it appears to be setup correctly. Can anyone here help me with this please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:57:33 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Hi Stephen, Then I got the next Gmane email... You are now authorized to post to the xx newsgroup. etc. I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post forwarded to the newsgroup. Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? List membership is easy to spoof anyway. Umm. I was beginning to wonder about that. I am familiar with usenet spoofing but hadn't thought deeply enough about that situation in email. :-( If I understand you correctly then anyone can post to any unmoderated emailing list by simply spoofing someone who is authorised to post ? The only way to control traffic to your list is to moderate it. Okay, of course that is quite impractical. I cannot be around to authorise posts 24 hours a day. :-( I am now beginning to see one of the reasons why those abominations called web boards are so popular. As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? Moderate the GMane subscription. Okay, that however would pretty much kill the mailing list. If someone posted while I was asleep then they would have to wait hours for my okay. So it appears to be setup correctly. Can anyone here help me with this please ? GMane has a bad reputation around here for not respecting the wishes of list owners. It's very convenient for your users, but if you allow GMane to gateway to your list, you are at their mercy. Unfortunately, like the majority of internet users who have limited finances, I have no choice. They are the only people in the world, that I know of, who enable people to have a free NNTP server access. I don't have strong anti-GMane feelings myself; I consider it a valuable service to my lists. Agreed. Unless you have money, and/or are a unix expert with root access somewhere, your choices for private newsgroups other than Gmane are zero. It is a pity that nobody in the open source community is interested in creating an NNTP server that someone, who isn't a unix expert, could install on a hosted web site. :-( Thank you for your feedback. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Wed, 20 Jan 2010 00:57:33 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: snip I shouldn't have got that second email, or had my newsgroup post forwarded to the newsgroup. Can anyone here suggest where the problem may be please ? List membership is easy to spoof anyway. The only way to control traffic to your list is to moderate it. As well as to suggest a way to fix it please ? Moderate the GMane subscription. snip Does anyone here know what actually goes to Mailman from Gmane ? (1) Is it simply an email, with Gmane as the sender ? With no mention of the newsgroup poster in any of the headers ? OR (2) Is there anything contained in any of the headers from Gmane that refers to the newsgroup poster ? I know some of you unix guys are pretty smart. Has anyone been able to see/grep these headers to see what they say please ? The reason I ask is because couldn't I potentially block all posts from Gmane ? Then in my Privacy options - accept_these_nonmembers add the names of authorised subscribers ? The accept_these_nonmembers in CPanel appears to allow regexp filtering so the subscriber info could be anywhere in the address. [Also what exactly is the address Mailman is talking about here ? The From: line ? Or all the headers ?] Any comments on any/all of the above appreciated. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 22:23:17 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jan 20, 2010, at 11:14 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, It is a pity that nobody in the open source community is interested in creating an NNTP server that someone, who isn't a unix expert, could install on a hosted web site. :-( I wouldn't say no one is interested, but there doesn't seem to be the resources to make it happen. Yes, but there are resources for people to create web forums. Resources for people to create emailers. Resources for people to create bloggs etc. I like Gmane personally, but I really want Mailman 3 to have an optional NNTP server vending messages from its message store. If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message store then that would be great !!! This sort of thing HAS been done by others. A combined database that can have it's messages accessed as web forum posts, emails, news posts etc. The huge advantage of this approach is that all forums are updated together. No need to poll one forum to update to another. Also, only one DB is needed. Instead of potentially three, or more. The Conversant people call all this Internet groupware. I actually don't think it's that hard, it'll just take some engineering. My plan is to use the NNTP server in Twisted as the core network service, but I'm open to suggestions. Get started yesterday ? :-) Come on over to mailman-developers if you want to help out. I am very happy to help out. I have been a beta tester for a number of freeware, and commercial, programs over the years. I also have some experience of news (proxy servers). I have also contributed to public, and private, newsgroup servers for more than ten years now. However, I am not a unix expert and I do not have root access to a unix server. I have subscribed to mailman-developers but haven't noticed any threads on NNTP access to the Mailman DB. So, unfortunately, I think my contribution may be limited to encouragement and suggestions/ideas. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman and Gmane ?
On Tue, 19 Jan 2010 23:35:32 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Jan 20, 2010, at 03:11 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, Yes, but there are resources for people to create web forums. Resources for people to create emailers. Resources for people to create bloggs etc. I mean people to hack code. :) Ah ! Those types of resources . vbg snip If you mean that Mailman could provide NNTP access to it's message store then that would be great !!! Yep, that's exactly what I mean and I agree it would be cool. Good. The only two issues that immediately come to mind is to provide a user option to change the port number. (for those who don't have root access to their Mailman server) and authentication. This sort of thing HAS been done by others. A combined database that can have it's messages accessed as web forum posts, emails, news posts etc. Hey, if there's stuff we can steal or integrate with, all the better! I have a saying: the best bass amp there is, is the one you don't have to bring. :) I would love to say that there is an open source item that you could look at, but I cannot. It is commercial. Probably. It started with http://macrobyte.net/ and then went to.. http://www.free-conversant.com/index However, there is a VERY small glimmer of hope if you read the Updated 3/30/2006 entry at.. http://conversant.macrobyte.net/ snip That's cool. There are /lots/ of opportunities for folks to contribute to Mailman that doesn't include coding. Well, I have provided FAQs on web pages to help people. I need to know Mailman a bit better though to be of worthwhile help. I am still a newbie. A GUI one at that ! We have a wiki that needs constant gardening, and would love to be fleshed out with ideas on integrating Mailman with existing forum software, blogs, etc. That interests me too. Web forum mailing list mirroring already exists in the commercial world. We have lots of documentation that needs writing or improving, or converting to Sphinx. There's testing to be done, web user interfaces to design, etc. etc. If coding's not your thing, I invite you to find some other area of interest and dig in! Okay, thanks for the suggestions. As I get more knowledge I will see if/where I can help. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Adding subscribed address in Welcome message ?
On Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:25:29 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: Hi Mark, snip In any case, the OP asked for a way to put the subscribed address in the message body. Possibly because To: headers may get rewritten or not completely displayed. I was thinking of the situation of re-direction. One could subscribe with eg. f...@work.com and have emails from that account re-directed to f...@home.com . Even if only after they leave work. I wanted their subscription address to be more in their face so that it would reduce confusion as to which email address they were subscribed with. The answer is that %(user)s in the template (which even cPanel users can edit via the admin GUI) will be replaced with the user's email address. The complete list of available substitutions for the list welcome template is 'real_name' : The list's name 'host_name' : The list's email host name 'welcome' : The list's extra welcome message 'umbrella': A special notice for members of umbrella lists 'emailaddr' : The list's posting address 'listinfo_url': The URL of the list's listinfo page 'optionsurl' : The URL of the members options page (which contains the members email address) 'password': The member's password 'user': The member's case preserved email address So, in fact, the member's email address is already in the body of the default welcome message, albeit as part of the options URL. Note that these substitutions only work in the template itself. They don't work in the 'welcome' text added to the template. That is EXACTLY the info I wanted Mark. Thank you. Your help is very much appreciated. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Adding subscribed address in Welcome message ?
Hi, Some people with multiple email address' get confused as to which one they used to subscribe. Is it possible to put that info in the body of the Welcome to this list email ? What would be the code I need for this please ? Using CPanel version 2.1.11.cp3 Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Removing archives query.
From looking at the FAQ it appears that one can only remove mailing list archives if one has shell access. Is that correct ? If it is then are there any plans for us CPanel users to be able to remove archives in a future Mailman release please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-(
Okay, I think I have messed up somewhere. Using version 2.1.11.cp3 I have setup new member applications to require approval. To avoid just anyone joining the list. That works fine. I get an email to allow/disallow them as subscribers. The problem however is that even though they become members I need to approve' each new email. How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me as administrator. Can someone here help me with this please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-(
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 13:16:30 +, Adam McGreggor wrote: On Fri, Jan 08, 2010 at 12:09:55AM +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote: How/where in the web interface do I set things up to block anyone subscribing themselves without my approval BUT once becoming a member to post without needing any further authorisation from me as administrator. Can someone here help me with this please ? On 'normal' Mailman, the option is default_member_moderation, (Privacy - Sender). Thank you. I don't know if CPanel have futzed with that, never having used their bastardization. Well, not everyone is a unix expert. I need to use CPanel. I have list membership set at Require approval but once someone has become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my getting an email that says... As list administrator, your authorization is requested for the following mailing list posting: List: From:xx Subject: xxx Reason: Posting to a moderated newsgroup At your convenience, visit:. Does anyone here know how to let subscribers post without getting that notice please ? Using CPanel. I am beginning to think that my setting the list to moderated means that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to post ? If non members will NOT be able to post then where on CPanel can I change things to un-moderated please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-(
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 15:17:52 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: snip As Adam said, go to the list's web admin interface Privacy options... - Sender filters and set default_member_moderation to No so future new members won't be moderated by default. Done. Then go to Membership Management - Membership List, scroll down to Additional Member Tasks and under Set everyone's moderation bit, including those members not currently visible select Off and press Set These changes have nothing to do with subscribe_policy for which you apparently do want require approval. Yes, thank you for making things clearer. It appears though that the reason that your list's posts are held is Posting to a moderated newsgroup. This is because on the admin Mail-News gateways page, you have gateway_to_news = Yes and news_moderation set to Moderated. Is this what you mean by moderated below? Actually I thought that moderated meant that one had to be an approved subscriber. I am beginning to think that my setting the list to moderated means that even subscribers are moderated. That isn't what I wanted. If this is the setting on the Mail-News gateways page, those all have to do with gatewaying to/from a usenet group via NNTP. I suspect you are not really doing that in which case both gateway_to_news and gateway_to_mail should be set to No. Well, actually I am porting to/from a news server. Gmane. snip I had set The moderation policy of the newsgroup to moderated. Thank you. This may be where my problem is. If I now set that to none then do you, or anyone else here, know whether posts will go to the newsgroup by non Mailman members ? Thanks again everyone. You have all been a big help to make things clearer for me. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-(
On Fri, 8 Jan 2010 01:08:59 +0200 (IST), Geoff Shang wrote: On Fri, 8 Jan 2010, John Fitzsimons wrote: Well, not everyone is a unix expert. I need to use CPanel. The point is that CPanel include their own version of Mailman with changes that they've not released back to the community, and therefore only other CPanel users can really comment authoritatively on CPanel Mailman installations as regular users don't know what CPanel have changed. Well, I thought by quoting version 2.1.11.cp3 that that meant CPanel 3 ? That people here may be familiar with it. snip If I set the list to un-moderated then will non members be able to post ? No. This is influenced by the Default Non-member Action item on the same page (Privacy/Sender Filters). Thanks, that's a relief. snip Thank you. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-(
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 18:00:12 -0500, J.R. Constance wrote: On Jan 7, 2010, at 5:21 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: snip I have list membership set at Require approval but once someone has become a subscriber I want their emails to go to the list without my getting an email that says... You have the correct setting for this. Thank you. snip Here's what you need to do. snip Thank you. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] List is too moderated. :-(
On Thu, 7 Jan 2010 16:27:39 -0800, Mark Sapiro wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Well, actually I am porting to/from a news server. Gmane. snip I had set The moderation policy of the newsgroup to moderated. Thank you. This may be where my problem is. If I now set that to none then do you, or anyone else here, know whether posts will go to the newsgroup by non Mailman members ? No post will be gated to the newsgroup from the list that is not accepted by the list. Okay, that is the list newsgroup direction. Please read the page linked from Mail-News gateways - (Details for news_moderation) for a fuller description of these settings. Among other things you will see If the newsgroup is moderated, you can set this mailing list up to be the moderation address for the newsgroup. By selecting Moderated, an additional posting hold will be placed in the approval process. All messages posted to the mailing list will have to be approved before being sent on to the newsgroup, or to the mailing list membership. This is apparently what you set, but not what you want. I think you want None which means that any post accepted by the list will also be forwarded to the newsgroup, but without adding an Approved: header. Yes, that direction is what I want. In any event, non-member posts to the list will be dealt with according to *_these_nonmembers and generic_nonmember_action, and if they aren't accepted for the list, they will not be forwarded to the newsgroup. My question however was in regards to the other direction. I was hoping someone here may know how things work the other way. Would someone who wasn't a member of the list be able to post via Gmane NNTP ? If they could then the news post would presumably be forwarded to the list ? Avoiding authentication barriers. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote: On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:49 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Brad, Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? Search the FAQ wizard for web forum. You should find a link to an article that talks about Joomla. That's the best integration I know of, although I'm sure there are others. Found it. Thanks. Backupcentral suggests that their bridge works BUT I don't know whether it will work with Mailman 2.1.11 PLUS Joomla 1.5 PLUS phpBB3. My hosting server only allows me three databases so I don't want to install Joomla, and phpBB3, (using maybe two databases) and then find out that everything will not work together. They have a mailing list called testy for it but when I asked a few questions I got a partial answer from only one person. There are a number of unanswered questions I still have. These are really VERY basic questions. For example, what files go in what directories ? Does it matter how deep the directories are etc. ? Does one need shell access ? They say... 1. Install the component via standard install procedures. What are standard install procedures ? For windows users that is simply double clicking an .exe file. What does that mean when translated to unix ? If it is as simple as FTPing files then why not say so ? Then tell people where they need to go. They then say Point your admin browser to Components... What's an admin browser ? Is that any different than a web browser ? Or are they talking about a telnet connection ? It is interesting how that site talks about an email to web forum bridge but they discuss it in a mailing list only. If the bridge works then I appear to have missed where the testy web forum address is. Also, why Joomla ? Previous software bridges that I have investigated have been from Mailman to phpBB2. No mention of Joomla being needed. So why the above comments ? So that people on this list, who aren't unix experts, can think twice before they try to install a product that probably doesn't work with current installations and has almost zero support. I believe that something like this could work with phpbb2 but not the current release. Can anyone help please ? I'm not personally aware of anything, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I am still looking. :-( A pity, as it would have hugely increased the popularity of Mailman had it worked. There are many web forums around. Adding an email list to them would make them/Mailman far more popular. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:26:01 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: Adam McGreggor writes: However, with those caveats, one should be able to use the same *database*, and Joomla/Kunena/Drupal/phpBB2 could all co-exist, in the same database, just using different database table prefixes, e.g., I rather doubt that's what John wants. I am guessing he wants *one* user database, You guess correctly. This is because my web hoster limits the number of MySQL databases that one can have. From looking elsewhere that doesn't appear uncommon with Australian hosters. *one* message database/archive, etc, etc, which presents various different faces to users depending one whether they access via mail, news, or forum. Exactly correct. That's why Barry is focusing on various kind of adaptors, so that different functions can share certain databases. Which will be a huge help IMO. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 23:56:19 -0600, Brad Knowles wrote: On Dec 21, 2009, at 1:49 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? Search the FAQ wizard for web forum. You should find a link to an article that talks about Joomla. snip Okay, thanks. It appears that Joomla, and PHPBB, both need a database eg. MySQL. I don't suppose you know whether they could both reference the same database when setting things up for the above outcome ? Thank you for your help. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for local newsgroups ?
On Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:57:49 -0600, Grant Taylor wrote: On 12/22/09 22:24, John Fitzsimons wrote: Okay, IF an NNTP setup were part of Mailman then that would IMO encourage a huge number of hosters, that currently install Mailman, to consider opening that port. Particularly as you could put in the installation documents that the Mailman NNTP facility requires it. I'm sure that hosts would consider running an NNTP server for a few moments before considering the ramifications (to Mailman) of not doing so before ultimately considering a different mailing list manager. No idea why someone wanting a mailing list manager would NOT like to have additional functionality. If it were an option. I was, of course, assuming that during Mailman's installation a question would be asked such as Do you wish to enable an NNTP server for use with Mailman ? Y/N ? I think Mailman (as a mailing list manager) should remain separate from a NNTP daemon. If people had an option during installation then they could decide that question for themselves. Having Mailman take advantage of an NNTP server that exists is wonderful. Making the leap to requiring the use of a Mailman rolled NNTP server is (IMHO) extremely arrogant. I wasn't recommending that. I was suggesting that if people chose, during installation, to add an NNTP capability then they would be reminded that they need to open the relevant port to get everything working properly. Offering an optional program that has been tested to work with (tm) is something completely different and acceptable. Further, you have some sites that are running Mailman on a server that is already running a different NNTP server. Are you going to tell these sites that they have to switch from their current NNTP server to the one that ships with Mailman? What if they refuse to switch? Does that mean that they have chosen to abandon Mailman and go with another product? No, as these people wouldn't choose the added NNTP functionality while installing Mailman. Requiring a Mailman included NNTP server is a *VERY* big and (IMHO) bad thing to do. I wasn't suggesting that. The NNTP part would be optional. At most, I think there should be an optional component that is tested and supported. Any thing beyond that should be what we currently have, best effort support to work with an alternative part NNTP server. You would be doing a gigantic service to newsgroup fans around the world. I sure hope you can manage this venture. Is adding multiple additional news servers (that only carry groups for the mailing lists hosted on the server) really such a good service? Well, as Gmane has 11,972 mailing list ported to NNTP I guess quite a lot of people would say yes. IMO the only reason more people don't use Gmane is because they haven't heard of it and/or don't understand how it works. That certainly applies to me. Had I known about Gmane, and how it works, in 2002 then I would have considered using their service then. IF Mailman had a similar thing as an option then IMO many would jump at the opportunity to have this added functionality. Or would it be better to (do what we currently do) gateway from Mailman and an existing NNTP server. No it wouldn't. A very high percentage of hosted sites install Mailman. IF an NNTP optional component existed then more sites would offer their clients that option. At the moment the number of hosted sites that offer an NNTP option is pretty close to 0%. Almost all the very very few sites that offer NNTP do so as a newsgroup provider only. It isn't part of the hosting package that many companies offer. Well, if you pull this off, then IMO Mailman will blow competing products out of the water. Both freeware and payware. :-) There are already packages that provide web form / mailing list / newsgroup / news server integration all in one. Synchronet comes to mind. Almost all of which need root access and/or Linux skills. Not much use to people who don't have root access, or Linux skills. With Synchronet for example .. Step-by-step Instructions = Note: These instructions assume you are already logged in as 'root'. Q. Where do I get Synchronet for Unix? A. There are no binary distributions at this time, so you must get the source code from Not everyone is a Unix geek. Some of us simply want to be able to send/receive email and newsgroup posts. Preferably as a synchronised setup. This sort of thing is absurdly simple in windows. It is amazingly difficult in Linux. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:59:40 +0900, Stephen J. Turnbull wrote: John Fitzsimons writes: Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? Precisely what does a web forum do? Have threaded web discussions. Eg. http://www.phpbb.com/about/ http://www.phorum.org/ etc. Would Trac Never heard of it. Doesn't look remotely like the above. IMO clearly for those who are familiar with Linux and/or are programmers. or Roundup serve? Much the same thing. I don't even see any web forums at that site. These are nominally issue trackers (and Trac is bundled with a wiki which might or might not be attractive for your purpose). However, what they basically do is manage threads. Roundup is quite good at integrating mail and web submissions at least for its purpose (but it doesn't thread automatically; instead, each issue might be thought of as a manually specified thread). I don't know how well Trac handles mail submissions, I only use the web interface of the Tracs I deal with. Roundup is a hairball, Sounds like something one should warn one's cat about. Or one's barber. but very very configurable. If one is a Linux guru. That isn't me. Trac is a lot more slick but at least in the incarnation where I met it (bugs.macosforge.org circa summer 2007) it was a ponderous unconfigurable beast requiring massive admin attention to get the smallest tweak implemented (or maybe it's just that the MacPorts folks can't admin their way out of a paper bag, I've seen other symptoms to suggest that's the case, so don't take this as entirely negative on Trac -- not to mention that lots of people love it). I've briefly mentioned integrating some Roundup functions with the mailman interface to Barry but that hasn't gone anywhere yet. I have mentioned previously that if something needs root access, or familiarity with Linux, then it is of little use to me. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 18:49:44 +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi, Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? snip Since my post I have come across... http://www.phorum.org/phorum5/read.php?62,140380 it says this allows for two way integration with mailinglists. The comments...shell / cronjob access and raw shell access suggest that it wouldn't work for me on a hosted site. :-( Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 07:47:40 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote: snip if work is going to be done, I hope it will be done in a modular fashion so that other forum software (with a plugin architecture) will be able to work with it. snip Simple Machines is the one to pick if you are going to support only one. Looks like an example of very good forum software. Thanks for the reference. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for local newsgroups ?
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 22:13:15 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Dec 21, 2009, at 7:36 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, In another thread we were talking about Mailman to web forum options. As Mailman can manage NNTP I wondered whether anyone here had come across an NNTP server for local (not usenet) newsgroups ? Yes. I intend to explore using Twisted in Mailman 3 to provide NNTP and IMAP access to Mailman archives. -Barry Would you mind explaining that a bit more please ? Would the end user need to install Twisted first to get NNTP access to Mailman archives ? When you say archives do you mean old posts ? Or would this provide the live NNTP email list mirroring that I am looking for ? As you appear to have already provided email to NNTP mirroring ability eg. Gmane would your version 3 provide the install of an NNTP server with the Mailman install ? Sorry to ask so many dumb questions but I would really like to get a better understanding of what you propose and whether it is likely to give me the mirroring facilities I am after. Bye the way, I don't know if the following helps, or not, but someone who managed to get email web NNTP newsgroups working said.. you can also make some changes to the way your web server is set up so that your users can access your newsgroups through the same URL as your web site. There is no need to include unsightly port numbers in the URL. This can also overcome problems of people not being able to read your newsgroups because of their firewall settings. snip we use the Apache web server with the mod_proxy module. Similar approaches are available with most other web servers. For IIS, you will either need Microsoft Proxy Server, Microsoft Internet Acceleration Server, or a third-party ISAPI module (such as http://www.isapirewrite.com/) to have the same effect. snip For details on how to set this up on your own web server, see the Apache mod_proxy documentation or the documentation for whatever web server or proxy server you are using, and look for details on how to set up a reverse proxy. Don't know whether that helps, or is relevant to the discussion. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for local newsgroups ?
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 18:59:56 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Dec 22, 2009, at 5:35 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Barry, Thank you for explaining things more. snip As you appear to have already provided email to NNTP mirroring ability eg. Gmane would your version 3 provide the install of an NNTP server with the Mailman install ? Well, there's a lot to work out with respect to packaging, but the idea is that you could run a local NNTP server that people could connect to with their newsreaders. One can run a local NNTP server now. That connects to Mailman. I assume that you are meaning that if Twisted were installed then Twisted, or will it be Mailman, would provide the server ? Or are we not talking about an NNTP server at all ? Just a conversion of protocols in some way ? It would work very much like Gmane (though we'd have to work out posting via NNTP issues). snip Okay, but I am assuming that Gmane has port 119 open. Many sites that provide Mailman wouldn't have it open. How could that be overcome ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] NNTP server for local newsgroups ?
On Tue, 22 Dec 2009 20:15:40 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Dec 22, 2009, at 7:21 PM, John Fitzsimons wrote: One can run a local NNTP server now. That connects to Mailman. I assume that you are meaning that if Twisted were installed then Twisted, or will it be Mailman, would provide the server ? Twisted would provide the server. Okay. The only reason I'm thinking Twisted is because it might be easier to configure permissions for and integrate with Mailman. Okay. But there might be other options, e.g. along the lines of using dovecot for IMAP. Okay, but I am assuming that Gmane has port 119 open. Many sites that provide Mailman wouldn't have it open. How could that be overcome ? Well, you'd have to open the appropriate port. Okay, IF an NNTP setup were part of Mailman then that would IMO encourage a huge number of hosters, that currently install Mailman, to consider opening that port. Particularly as you could put in the installation documents that the Mailman NNTP facility requires it. You would be doing a gigantic service to newsgroup fans around the world. I sure hope you can manage this venture. Gmane is a fine service, Yep, as a proof of concept situation it works particularly well. Web forum newsgroup post email mirroring. Few other people have managed that. but it's run by a party you don't control. Yes, and if one doesn't use it there is nobody else anywhere who can provide a similar service. Even for a cost. :-( The idea here is to run a server that you do control for sites that want to do that. -Barry Well, if you pull this off, then IMO Mailman will blow competing products out of the water. Both freeware and payware. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Web access to Mailman.
I am new to Mailman so there is something I didn't consider in the recent web forum to Mailman discussions. The existing Mailman web forum facility. It seems to me that the majority of the Mailman to web work has already been done. All that is needed is a new post, and reply button, addition to our mailing list archives page. Admittedly bare bones but IMO a big help if people wanted to post via the web in preference to an emailer. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
Hi, Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? I believe that something like this could work with phpbb2 but not the current release. Can anyone help please ? Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 14:52:25 +, Adam McGreggor wrote: On Mon, Dec 21, 2009 at 06:49:44PM +1100, John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Adam, Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? snip The Wordpress thingy turns email - database record(s), from which it ought to be moderately easy to map those fields to appropriate ones for the forum. snip Well, there are a few issues here. I am totally unfamiliar with how Wordpress works, I wouldn't know how/where to map anything, I don't have root access to the hosting site that has my Mailman install. Those three items make things a bit difficult. :-( I can't really think of a way to maintain an up-to date email thread in a forum, allowing posting to both; although, an afterthought may be Well, it has been done a number of times. With a number of forums. The trouble is that upgrading forums generally stops things working and/or one needs root access to install. Something not everyone has. Here is an example IF one wants to pay the huge cost of their software.. http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showthread.php?t=151222 to use NNTP for both... but that's quite perverse. I would prefer to/from NNTP. Think I might start a new thread for that. (Do forum softwares still support NNTP feeds, or does one need to use RSS or XML or one of those other new-fangled things to import content?) Others may have better 'solutions'. Thanks for your comments. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 11:06:29 -0500, Barry Warsaw wrote: On Dec 21, 2009, at 2:49 AM, John Fitzsimons wrote: Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? I would invite anybody interested in exploring this to join us over in mailman-developers. This is something I'd love to see for Mailman 3. -Barry Would there be any point in us non programmers doing that ? Apart from being unable to contribute much, if anything, we would then need to read a whole pile of posts that are probably too technical to be of much interest. FWIW I suggest the following... A new mailing list specifically for this. A new announce mailing list to announce when a release is ready for testing. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Mailman-Users] Mailman forum ?
On Mon, 21 Dec 2009 13:21:10 -0500, Terri Oda wrote: John Fitzsimons wrote: Hi Terri, Are there currently *any* web forum(s) that enable forum/mailman mirroring ? In other words a Mailman email going to a web forum and vica versa ? I believe that something like this could work with phpbb2 but not the current release. Can anyone help please ? Not yet, but I'd like there to be, because I think a web forum could be a more user-friendly (or at least user-familiar) way for us to handle archives. I started looking in to it some time ago, but life happened and the code I'd hoped to write didn't. I HATE web forums but know people who like them. The advantage of a web forum email situation is IMO participation. Suppose 10 people who dislike forums are on an email list. Suppose 10 people who dislike email lists are on a forum. With mirroring all 20 could be talking to each other. Each using his/her preferred posting method. Lastly, some people prefer both. Eg. email from home and web forum posting from work. Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
[Mailman-Users] NNTP server for local newsgroups ?
In another thread we were talking about Mailman to web forum options. As Mailman can manage NNTP I wondered whether anyone here had come across an NNTP server for local (not usenet) newsgroups ? One that doesn't require root access and could be put on a hosted Linux site. I have doubts that such a thing exists but if it does then I thought someone here may have come across it. :-) Regards, John. -- Mailman-Users mailing list Mailman-Users@python.org http://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/mailman-users Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users%40python.org/ Unsubscribe: http://mail.python.org/mailman/options/mailman-users/archive%40jab.org
