[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On 9/17/25 10:08, Lindsay Haisley wrote: On Wed, 2025-09-17 at 10:57 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote: On Wed, 2025-09-17 at 05:54 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: The entry is just the list name, not the full list address. Mailman barfs on this, and refuses to accept just the list name, complaining with "Error: Bad email address for option regular_include_lists: plist". The full instructions for the setting specify that this should be the full email address of the linked list. Sorry, my bad. The entry is the list posting address, not the bare list name. Is it possible, because this setting MUST be an email address, that the umbrella list (ulist) must be listed as an unmoderated subscriber to plist?, Or v.v.? No, the regular_include_lists feature is an alternative to umbrella lists. It doesn't require any settings other than the list address in regular_include_lists with one exception. If a regular_include_list is in a different domain from the including list you must have ALLOW_CROSS_DOMAIN_SIBLING = True in mm_cfg.py. This does not eliminate the requirement that all the lists must be in the same Mailman instance, but it applies if the instance supports multiple domains and the regular_include_list is in a different domain from the including list. Is it possible that that the code for ulist sends out a "list-request email to plist, subject of "who pwd", and parses the subscriber list from the (rather chatty) reply? From a security standpoint, something this would definitely make sense, since there MUST be some way for the mailman code supporting plist knows that ulist is authorized to do the jiggery pokery necessary to obtain the subscriber list from plist. It doesn't work that way at all. The code instantiates the regular_include_list and gets it's regular members which is why it has to be in the same Mailman instance. https://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20is%20an%20Umbrella%20list%20-%20and%20why%20doesn%27t%20it%20do%20what%20I%20want%3Fhttps://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20is%20an%20Umbrella%20list%20-%20and%20why%20doesn%27t%20it%20do%20what%20I%20want%3F is instructive, but I may need to update to MM 2.1.10. My current 2.1.8 has some serious patches which I wrote which may not apply to 2.1.10. Your OP said "I'm running Mailman 2.1.18-1". Which is it? If it's really 2.1.8, sibling lists aren't supported at all, but then there would be nothing in the GUI about them and the fact that there is and a bare list name throws the error says it is. Also, 2.1.18-1 seems to be a third party package designation. Maybe there's an issue there. The process that does this is the do_include() function in Mailman/Handlers/CalcRecips.py. Does yours have that? Also note that digest members of the included list are not included, only regular members. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On Wed, 2025-09-17 at 10:57 -0500, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > On Wed, 2025-09-17 at 05:54 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > On September 16, 2025 8:44:06 PM PDT, Lindsay Haisley > > wrote: > > > On Tue, 2025-09-16 at 14:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > > > > > > Yes it is possible. Set P in U's Non-digest options -> > > > > regular_include_lists. > > > > > > This isn't working, so I must be missing something. I've set up 2 > > > lists, [email protected] and [email protected]. I have the full plist > > > address > > > set as the regular_include_lists for ulist, but a mail to the > > > ulist > > > address doesn't include the plist subscribers. Both lists work if > > > addressed individually. > > > > The entry is just the list name, not the full list address. > > Mailman barfs on this, and refuses to accept just the list name, > complaining with "Error: Bad email address for option > regular_include_lists: plist". The full instructions for the setting > specify that this should be the full email address of the linked > list. Is it possible, because this setting MUST be an email address, that the umbrella list (ulist) must be listed as an unmoderated subscriber to plist?, Or v.v.? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially with the requirement of NOT sending out duplicate emails if a subscriber is on both lists. At some point, subscriber addresses which are on both lists have to be reduced to a single address so that the list subscriber db is effectively normalized, with the subscriber address as the effective index. Is it possible that that the code for ulist sends out a "list-request email to plist, subject of "who pwd", and parses the subscriber list from the (rather chatty) reply? From a security standpoint, something this would definitely make sense, since there MUST be some way for the mailman code supporting plist knows that ulist is authorized to do the jiggery pokery necessary to obtain the subscriber list from plist. https://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20is%20an%20Umbrella%20list%20-%20and%20why%20doesn%27t%20it%20do%20what%20I%20want%3Fhttps://wiki.list.org/DOC/What%20is%20an%20Umbrella%20list%20-%20and%20why%20doesn%27t%20it%20do%20what%20I%20want%3F is instructive, but I may need to update to MM 2.1.10. My current 2.1.8 has some serious patches which I wrote which may not apply to 2.1.10. -- Lindsay Haisley | "Never expect the people who caused a FMP Computer Services | problem to solve it." 512-496-7118 |-- Albert Einstein http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On Wed, 2025-09-17 at 05:54 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On September 16, 2025 8:44:06 PM PDT, Lindsay Haisley > wrote: > > On Tue, 2025-09-16 at 14:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > > > > > > Yes it is possible. Set P in U's Non-digest options -> > > > regular_include_lists. > > > > This isn't working, so I must be missing something. I've set up 2 > > lists, [email protected] and [email protected]. I have the full plist > > address > > set as the regular_include_lists for ulist, but a mail to the ulist > > address doesn't include the plist subscribers. Both lists work if > > addressed individually. > > The entry is just the list name, not the full list address. Mailman barfs on this, and refuses to accept just the list name, complaining with "Error: Bad email address for option regular_include_lists: plist". The full instructions for the setting specify that this should be the full email address of the linked list. > > > I assume that this system works by the umbrella list (ulist) > > retrieving > > a list of subscribers from plist using a plist-request call > > internally, > > but this requires the plist admin password, and there's no place to > > provide it. > > It doesn't work that way. It doesn't use a web request. For this > reason, both lists must be in the same Mailman instance. They are. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The difference between a duck is because FMP Computer Services | one leg is both the same" 512-496-7118 | - Anonymous http://www.fmp.com| -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On September 16, 2025 8:44:06 PM PDT, Lindsay Haisley wrote: >On Tue, 2025-09-16 at 14:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> >> Yes it is possible. Set P in U's Non-digest options -> >> regular_include_lists. > >This isn't working, so I must be missing something. I've set up 2 >lists, [email protected] and [email protected]. I have the full plist address >set as the regular_include_lists for ulist, but a mail to the ulist >address doesn't include the plist subscribers. Both lists work if >addressed individually. The entry is just the list name, not the full list address. >I assume that this system works by the umbrella list (ulist) retrieving >a list of subscribers from plist using a plist-request call internally, >but this requires the plist admin password, and there's no place to >provide it. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't use a web request. For this reason, both lists must be in the same Mailman instance. >What am I missing. Is there a howto on this? > >Glad to have an email from you, Mark. It's been years! I'm 84 and >probably won't be working with computer technology much longer, but >this setup of nested lists is for an organization my wife is working >with, so I'm doing what research I can. Yes, it's been a while. I'm only 83, but I'm still doing this for as long as I can. -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software. -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On September 17, 2025 1:16:27 AM PDT, "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: > >I think you also need to subscribe Plist to Ulist. > >I'm pretty sure that regular_include_lists is consulted only for >posting permission, but not for posting addresses. That's not correct. Perhaps you are confusing this with putting @LISTNAME in accept_these_nonmembers. -- Mark Sapiro Sent from my Not_an_iThing with standards compliant, open source software. -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
Lindsay Haisley writes: > On Tue, 2025-09-16 at 14:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: >> On 9/16/25 11:57, Lindsay Haisley wrote: >>> * Posts by the authorized poster to list U will go to members of BOTH lists >>> U and P. >>> * Posts by the authorized poster to list P will go ONLY to members of list >>> P. >>> * If a subscriber's address is on BOTH lists U and P, said subscriber will >>> only receive ONE copy of an authorized post to list U. >> Yes it is possible. Set P in U's Non-digest options -> >> regular_include_lists. > This isn't working, so I must be missing something. I think you also need to subscribe Plist to Ulist. I'm pretty sure that regular_include_lists is consulted only for posting permission, but not for posting addresses. The idea is the instead of an umbrella list, you might want sibling lists, say "cooking" and "furniture", such that members of both lists can post to both lists, but you don't want recipes posted to furniture and you don't want pictures of poster beds with curtains in cooking. > I assume that this system works by the umbrella list (ulist) retrieving > a list of subscribers from plist using a plist-request call internally, > but this requires the plist admin password, and there's no place to > provide it. No, there's only one mailman process, which has access to everything. Good to see you again, Lindsay. Did you know that the most popular consumer PC assembler in Japan is "Mouse Technologies"? -- GNU Mailman consultant (installation, migration, customization) Sirius Open Sourcehttps://www.siriusopensource.com/ Software systems consulting in Europe, North America, and Japan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On Tue, 2025-09-16 at 14:12 -0700, Mark Sapiro wrote: > On 9/16/25 11:57, Lindsay Haisley wrote: > > I want to set up two anouncement-only lists, call them U and P with the > > following linked conditions. > > > > * Posts by the authorized poster to list U will go to members of BOTH > > lists U and P. > > > > * Posts by the authorized poster to list P will go ONLY to members of > > list P. > > > > * If a subscriber's address is on BOTH lists U and P, said subscriber > > will only receive ONE copy of an authorized post to list U. > > > > Is this possible, and if so, how? I'm running Mailman 2.1.18-1. > > > Yes it is possible. Set P in U's Non-digest options -> > regular_include_lists. This isn't working, so I must be missing something. I've set up 2 lists, [email protected] and [email protected]. I have the full plist address set as the regular_include_lists for ulist, but a mail to the ulist address doesn't include the plist subscribers. Both lists work if addressed individually. I assume that this system works by the umbrella list (ulist) retrieving a list of subscribers from plist using a plist-request call internally, but this requires the plist admin password, and there's no place to provide it. What am I missing. Is there a howto on this? Glad to have an email from you, Mark. It's been years! I'm 84 and probably won't be working with computer technology much longer, but this setup of nested lists is for an organization my wife is working with, so I'm doing what research I can. -- Lindsay Haisley | "The arc of the moral universe is long, FMP Computer Services |but it bends toward justice" 512-496-7118 | http://www.fmp.com|- Martin Luther King, Jr. -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
[Mailman-Users] Re: Duplicate emails in umbrella lists
On 9/16/25 11:57, Lindsay Haisley wrote: I want to set up two anouncement-only lists, call them U and P with the following linked conditions. * Posts by the authorized poster to list U will go to members of BOTH lists U and P. * Posts by the authorized poster to list P will go ONLY to members of list P. * If a subscriber's address is on BOTH lists U and P, said subscriber will only receive ONE copy of an authorized post to list U. Is this possible, and if so, how? I'm running Mailman 2.1.18-1. Yes it is possible. Set P in U's Non-digest options -> regular_include_lists. -- Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers, San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan -- Mailman-Users mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/mailman-users.python.org/ Mailman FAQ: http://wiki.list.org/x/AgA3 Security Policy: http://wiki.list.org/x/QIA9 Searchable Archives: https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ https://mail.python.org/archives/list/[email protected]/ Member address: [email protected]
