[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo writes:

 > Thank you so much Stephen for the help, it has helped me a lot.

Thank you for the feedback!  It helps a lot to know when our help is
really helpful.

Steve
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo]

Thank you so much Stephen for the help, it has helped me a lot.
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Raaphael Mankin via Mailman-Users]

On 04/06/2021 16:12, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:

To summarize Mark and not drive you crazy, what we need is that the 
person who sends an email to a moderate list, whether or not they 
belong to the list, receive the email that tells them if their post 
has been accepted or rejected.
This is dangerous  if done for  non-members. Consider the case where a 
message is received with spoofed header so that the acknowledgment goes 
to another mailing list or to a  giant mail alias. Remember the NHS 
reply-all storm of a few years back?

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo]

I will try it Stephen, thank you so much for your help.
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Chip Davis]

This happens regularly on the lists that I administer, usually as a 
result of a well-meaning subscriber 'cc:'ing a non-subscriber, who 
then replies back to both the subscriber and the list.


Since I have to deal with the moderated message anyway, I simply send 
the non-subscriber a short note explaining that their note has been 
accepted, but that further correspondence on the subject should be 
sent directly to the subscriber who 'cc:'d the note to them.


It's not automatic, but the delta effort is only slightly more than 
what is necessary to reject the attempted posting.


-Chip-

On 6/4/2021 11:12 AM, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:

To summarize Mark and not drive you crazy, what we need is that the person who 
sends an email to a moderate list, whether or not they belong to the list, 
receive the email that tells them if their post has been accepted or rejected.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Stephen J. Turnbull]

Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo writes:

 > To summarize Mark and not drive you crazy, what we need is that the
 > person who sends an email to a moderate list, whether or not they
 > belong to the list, receive the email that tells them if their post
 > has been accepted or rejected.

We are unlikely to provide this feature, but if you want to request it
you can create an issue at https://gitlab.com/mailman/mailman, and
perhaps a contributor will pick it up.  The closest you can come with
current Mailman is

1.  Use the script Mark mentions to set AcknowledgePosts to True for
all users.  Note that they can still turn it off.


2.  Tell your moderators that they should use "reject" rather than
"discard" when refusing a post.
3.  If you have public archives of the list, tell non-subscribers they
can check if their message was received in the archive.

Here's why we probably will not work on such a feature.

We would prefer not to send any such messages at all, including the
"your post has been held for moderation" message.  They are too easy
to abuse (the poster spoofs a random person's email address, so that
person gets multiple messages about something they didn't even post
from a list they never heard of), and most Internet users don't like
them -- that's why these messages default to off, and we provide a
user option to turn acknowledgments off if the list decides to use
them.

The potential for abuse would be especially bad for automatic
rejection messages to users who are not subscribers, because they have
no way to turn it off.

We do provide the "held for moderation" message because without it
some posters will re-post several times, which is bad for the list for
several reasons.  We provide the "acknowledge post" message for the
convenience of users of email providers like Gmail that do not pass
the list's instance of the message to the user.

If a held message is not posted, there are two options for the
moderator: "reject" and "discard".  The difference is that if a
message is rejected, a short acknowledgment and explanation are sent
to the poster.  A discarded message is simply thrown away.  If the
message is posted, an acknowledgment will be sent to a subscriber if
both the list and the subscriber enable it.

 > I hope I am explaining myself well, I am from Spain and my English
 > is not very good Sorry

Your English is fine, don't worry about it.  We appreciate your
concern and your effort to explain, but no apology needed.

Regards,
Steve



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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/4/21 8:33 AM, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:

And if it could only be done for members of the list, should I go one by one 
activating that option? We have about 50 lists with many subscribers and it 
would be a tedious job. Would there be an option to create a list or add a 
member that activates that option automatically ?, Or later to when creating a 
list passing a cfg with config_list that modifies that option ?.



Member options are a one-byte bitfield described at 
https://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mailman-coders/mailman/2.1/view/head:/Mailman/Defaults.py.in#L1696. 
New member's options are set from the lists new_member_options. The 
list's web admin UI exposes part of this setting including "Acknowledge 
the member's posting" as checkboxes. The default for new_member_options 
for new lists is the Defaults.py/mm_cfg.py setting 
DEFAULT_NEW_MEMBER_OPTIONS.


To set the option for existing users, see the withlist script at 
https://www.msapiro.net/scripts/set_nodups.py. This sets the 
DontReceiveDuplicates option but you can change DontReceiveDuplicates to 
AcknowledgePosts to set that option.



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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo]

Can we activate the ACK option recursively to all the subscribers of the list 
without having to go one by one activating it?

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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/4/21 7:43 AM, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:

I understand that option is if the sender message to the list is member of that list, but 
my scenario is the sender is not member of that list, then he received the message 
"Your message is pending of moderation", but the accepted message only is 
received for moderate of the list.
Is there an option to activate or can it be done so that this "approved" 
message is also received by a sender who is not a member of that list?



No. When a message is accepted by a moderator by email, the moderator 
receives a notice of the disposition of the email command. That is the 
only notice. If the message is accepted via the web UI, there is no 
notice at all.


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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo]

And if it could only be done for members of the list, should I go one by one 
activating that option? We have about 50 lists with many subscribers and it 
would be a tedious job. Would there be an option to create a list or add a 
member that activates that option automatically ?, Or later to when creating a 
list passing a cfg with config_list that modifies that option ?.
Thanks again.
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo]

To summarize Mark and not drive you crazy, what we need is that the person who 
sends an email to a moderate list, whether or not they belong to the list, 
receive the email that tells them if their post has been accepted or rejected.
I hope I am explaining myself well, I am from Spain and my English is not very 
good
Sorry
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo]

I understand that option is if the sender message to the list is member of that 
list, but my scenario is the sender is not member of that list, then he 
received the message "Your message is pending of moderation", but the accepted 
message only is received for moderate of the list.
Is there an option to activate or can it be done so that this "approved" 
message is also received by a sender who is not a member of that list?

Thank you so much Mark
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[Mailman-Users] Re: Problem with the Approved message confirmation

[Mark Sapiro]

On 6/4/21 4:39 AM, Ivan Tejeiro Izquierdo wrote:


I send a message to a moderated list, the moderator receives a message to moderate 
it, I receive a message that my email is pending moderation, so far everything is 
correct, but the problem is that when the moderator approves the moderation, the 
email that arrives confirming that the moderation is Approved, it reaches the 
moderator, not me, who am the sender and I want to know if my message has been 
approved. I need the message that says "your message has been approved reaches 
the sender.
Is this operation like this, or do I have something wrong?


Normally, you would receive your post from the list and would know it 
was accepted, but you use Gmail so you don't see your list post. See 
https://wiki.list.org/x/4030680 for the explanation.


In order to know if your post is accepted, set your user option "Receive 
acknowledgement mail when you send mail to the list?" to Yes.


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