Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Grant Taylor via Mailman-Users]

On 12/07/2017 07:19 PM, Chip Davis wrote:
And I have no problem with that (except that editorial advice probably 
doesn't belong on a settings page) because it refers to a "mailing 
list".  I have no statistics, but my exposure to Mailman has been almost 
exclusively as a "discussion list".  Therefore, all of the Mailman 
instances that I admin ignore this "strong recommendation" and set 
'reply_goes_to_list' to 'This list'.  Yes, that does open the DMARC/DKIM 
can-o-worms, but just about everything useful does... :-/


I came to the conclusion long ago that there are effectively two types 
of mailing lists, 1) broadcast lists where replies go somewhere other 
than the list and 2) discussion lists where replies go back to the 
mailing list.


Which should be used is an often debated topic.  In some ways, it's as 
religious as vi vs emacs.


Ultimately, it comes down to what you, as a mailing list administrator 
want to do.  Sure, you can take some influence from your subscribers. 
But it is /your/ choice as the administrator.


I think that Mailman (et al) should inform administrators of the 
potential caveats of their decision, not try to persuade them one way or 
the other.


I personally feel like discussion mailing lists are their own entity. 
Thus they are the author of the message (with content heavily based on 
incoming emails) and as such all aspects of the message should reflect 
the discussion mailing list.  (I'm also a vim user.)




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Chip Davis]

On 12/7/2017 2:29 PM, Mark Sapiro wrote:

On 12/07/2017 09:15 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:


Short version for free:  Edit /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py and add the
following line anywhere AFTER 'from Defaults import *':

DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1



It is not necessary and probably not effective in this case to edit
mm_cfg.py. That only sets the default for new lists.

What is wanted in this case is the settings on the web admin UI General
Options page under Reply-To: header munging. In particular:

Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly
recommended for most mailing lists.
(Details for reply_goes_to_list)


And I have no problem with that (except that editorial advice probably 
doesn't belong on a settings page) because it refers to a "mailing 
list".  I have no statistics, but my exposure to Mailman has been 
almost exclusively as a "discussion list".  Therefore, all of the 
Mailman instances that I admin ignore this "strong recommendation" and 
set 'reply_goes_to_list' to 'This list'.  Yes, that does open the 
DMARC/DKIM can-o-worms, but just about everything useful does... :-/


Perhaps it would be useful to new Mailman admins if there were some 
sort of Quick Start Tutorial that covered appropriate initial settings 
for using Mailman as a:

 - Mailing List
 - Discussion List
 - Suggestion Box
 - IRC bot
 - etc.

-Chip-
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Mark Sapiro]

On 12/07/2017 09:15 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> 
> Short version for free:  Edit /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py and add the
> following line anywhere AFTER 'from Defaults import *':
> 
> DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1


It is not necessary and probably not effective in this case to edit
mm_cfg.py. That only sets the default for new lists.

What is wanted in this case is the settings on the web admin UI General
Options page under Reply-To: header munging. In particular:

Where are replies to list messages directed? Poster is strongly
recommended for most mailing lists.
(Details for reply_goes_to_list)

And do follow the Details link and read the articles linked therefrom
and also 

-- 
Mark Sapiro The highway is for gamblers,
San Francisco Bay Area, Californiabetter use your sense - B. Dylan
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Jordan Brown]

On 12/7/2017 9:15 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> On 12/07/17 00:43, Ron Beatteay via Mailman-Users wrote:
>> Hi all, 
>> I’m new to mailman.  My previous Listserv platform ( LSoft ) made it easy to 
>> reply to discussions by automatically sending replies to the list.  With 
>> mailman, replies go to the person, not the list,, so we have to make the 
>> extra step of correcting the outgoing to: address.   Is there a way to make 
>> that default in settings?
> Yes.  The documentation explains how.
>
> Short version for free:  Edit /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py and add the
> following line anywhere AFTER 'from Defaults import *':
>
> DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1

But don't do it.  Teach your users to use "Reply All" when they want to
talk to everybody and "Reply" when they want to talk to the author of
the particular message.

Mailing list mechanisms that set "Reply-To" to point to the mailing list
inevitably lead to messages that are intended to be private being
accidentally sent to the entire list.
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Dimitri Maziuk]

On 12/07/2017 12:25 PM, Jordan Brown wrote:
> On 12/7/2017 10:21 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>> This is a religious dispute.
> 
> Yep.

Only FVO religion = "belief that computer can read your mind".

Presumably there exist some lists and/or users out there for which
replying to one or the other (or both) is *always* The Right Thing(tm).
I don't remember ever running into one myself.

-- 
Dimitri Maziuk
Programmer/sysadmin
BioMagResBank, UW-Madison -- http://www.bmrb.wisc.edu



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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Jordan Brown]

On 12/7/2017 10:21 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
> This is a religious dispute.

Yep.

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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Phil Stracchino]

On 12/07/17 13:17, Jordan Brown wrote:
> On 12/7/2017 9:15 AM, Phil Stracchino wrote:
>> On 12/07/17 00:43, Ron Beatteay via Mailman-Users wrote:
>>> Hi all, 
>>> I’m new to mailman.  My previous Listserv platform ( LSoft ) made it easy 
>>> to reply to discussions by automatically sending replies to the list.  With 
>>> mailman, replies go to the person, not the list,, so we have to make the 
>>> extra step of correcting the outgoing to: address.   Is there a way to make 
>>> that default in settings?
>> Yes.  The documentation explains how.
>>
>> Short version for free:  Edit /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py and add the
>> following line anywhere AFTER 'from Defaults import *':
>>
>> DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1
> 
> But don't do it.  Teach your users to use "Reply All" when they want to
> talk to everybody and "Reply" when they want to talk to the author of
> the particular message.
> 
> Mailing list mechanisms that set "Reply-To" to point to the mailing list
> inevitably lead to messages that are intended to be private being
> accidentally sent to the entire list.


This is a religious dispute.  Both schools of thought have their
adherents and their vehement opponents, and some mailers still do not
provide separate options for reply-to-sender and reply-to-list.

The smart-money choice is to carefully consider on a list-by-list basis
which policy is appropriate for the list in question.


-- 
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Re: [Mailman-Users] Replying to the List

[Phil Stracchino]

On 12/07/17 00:43, Ron Beatteay via Mailman-Users wrote:
> Hi all, 
> I’m new to mailman.  My previous Listserv platform ( LSoft ) made it easy to 
> reply to discussions by automatically sending replies to the list.  With 
> mailman, replies go to the person, not the list,, so we have to make the 
> extra step of correcting the outgoing to: address.   Is there a way to make 
> that default in settings?

Yes.  The documentation explains how.

Short version for free:  Edit /etc/mailman/mm_cfg.py and add the
following line anywhere AFTER 'from Defaults import *':

DEFAULT_REPLY_GOES_TO_LIST = 1



-- 
  Phil Stracchino
  Babylon Communications
  ph...@caerllewys.net
  p...@co.ordinate.org
  Landline: +1.603.293.8485
  Mobile:   +1.603.998.6958
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