Agreed, but some softwares do have a service period where the provider promises
to update it regularly. Android has for example such a service requirement.
If such a service period is provided, then you can't just abandon the software
without paying back those that have service left on their
The thing is that theres 2 things discussing here:
There is "public service". According to EU and Swedish law, anything that
responds on internet packets are a public service.
This because HTTP is not the only protocol that exist on the internet.
Different protocols ask for password in
Am 23.10.22 um 01:05 schrieb Sebastian Nielsen via mailop:
The article you linked to, was very clear (when running it through google
translate) that the imprint requirement only required if it was a PAID service,
requiring some compensation to use.
Seemingly this requirement moved into §18
* Slavko via mailop:
> BTW, my daughter (who live in Germany) told me, that name, address,
> phone number and birthday date is enough to manipulate with bank
> account in Germany.
I don't know of any German bank where this is the case. In my
experience, banks are quite strict when it comes to
Moin,
am 22.10.22 um 23:33 schrieb Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop:
Dnia 22.10.2022 o godz. 19:06:25 Sebastian Nielsen via mailop pisze:
That’s why, running a PAID online service usually requires permission from
the government too, so the government can do regular visits and checks to
ensure you do
I checked the law now and its actually 2 different laws in effect:
Telemedia law, requires a basic imprint for all sites that is not only
accessible for personal usage or family usage (if you give one single person
access outside, it requires an imprint, even if that person is a friend. Only
On 10/22/22 9:00 AM, Sebastian Nielsen via mailop wrote:
If you provide free services, customer can't expect anything, and
you are free to do as your wish. If your email service goes down,
so what? Customer got it for free, not our problem. If you win a
toaster in a free competition that
Yeah, and for tax control purposes aswell.
As long as you involve money into something, the government want to ensure its
fair, so you don't scam people.
Ergo, paid online services hold a minimum quality, online games doesn't involve
cheating, products hold what they promise etc.
Else it would
On 10/22/22 12:31 PM, Slavko via mailop wrote:
As fan & contributor to open source software i do not agree, no,
not all is about money only.
I am particularly impressed with the FCC's use of "no pecuniary
interest" when discussing operating on an amateur radio license.
My understanding is
It depends. I was just generalizing. Some countries require permission when you
host a service that is usually provided by telecom operators.
(for example mail service) and make it available to the public.
Germany and Sweden do not. And only paid online services require a imprint,
free OR
>> has to put up an imprint on their website as well and show a cookie banner
>> before it can be seen
No, theres no imprint requirement in Sweden if you do not operate a public
service for remundiation (for pay).
Then there is certain requirements by the consumer law if you provide paid
Yes, but the §5 only applies to services run for a fee.
§18 applies to all services, including free ones.
§18 only requires name + address
§5 requires a lot more information.
Från: Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
Skickat: den 23 oktober 2022 04:38
Till: mailop@mailop.org
Ämne: Re:
The article you linked to, was very clear (when running it through google
translate) that the imprint requirement only required if it was a PAID service,
requiring some compensation to use.
"(1) Service providers shall keep the following information easily
recognisable, directly accessible and
Its very clear from the document you provided, that it DOES require that the
service in question does bear a cost.
We have a similar law in Sweden when it comes to electronic communications,
which only applies to services for-pay.
Free services are not included, so if you provide free wifi, it
Correct.
But that something that is handled "internally". Its nothing that the
government need to put their sticky fingers into.
It’s the same when you cook food in your home. Then its mutually known that its
on their own risk, If the chef does the cooking wrong, someone might get a bad
On 10/22/22 12:55 PM, Sebastian Nielsen via mailop wrote:
Think the "imprint" as a hygiene certification for a public for-pay
internet service. Think like a digital restaurant, and you understand
why these laws are there.
I'm not so sure about that.
I thought the imprint was simply official
Dňa 22. októbra 2022 19:19:20 UTC používateľ Grant Taylor via mailop
napísal:
>I am particularly impressed with the FCC's use of "no pecuniary interest" when
>discussing operating on an amateur radio license.
>
>My understanding is "pecuniary" is that you benefit in some way, be it
>monetary
Dnia 22.10.2022 o godz. 19:06:25 Sebastian Nielsen via mailop pisze:
>
> That’s why, running a PAID online service usually requires permission from
> the government too, so the government can do regular visits and checks to
> ensure you do the maintenance and provide the safety you promise or
a htaccess wont discharge you from being a "public service".
As long as you respond from packets from the public, you are a public service,
even if you have .htaccess password protection.
For example, Swedish cookie law (requiring you to put a cookie banner if you
use cookies on a public
>>AFAIK, if _you_ get _any_ *benefit* from what you put on your website (via
>>ads, affiliate links, whatever)
Yes correct, everything that increases your "richness" or saves you money,
counts as remuneration.
Doesn’t matter if its money, if its affiliate links, if its donations, if its
Another way to see it, is that if you want to use "password protection" to
discharge you from being a public service, you have to use a scheme where the
password is sent with the initial SYN or UDP packet, and then the service will
completely ignore requests with a incorrect password.
Since
Dňa 22. októbra 2022 22:41:33 UTC používateľ Kai 'wusel' Siering via mailop
napísal:
>Moin,
>What is an "online service"? The imprimt stuff in Germany stems from Germany's
>»Telemediengesetz« (TMG), which defines what »Telemedien« are and what applies
>to someone providing them. And I don't
We're quite diverging from the topic ...
Am 23.10.22 um 01:30 schrieb Sebastian Nielsen via mailop:
a htaccess wont discharge you from being a "public service".
Yes, no, maybe. German courts seem to be ok with an .htaccess to keep the
general public out for you to not need an imprint page
Am 23.10.22 um 02:00 schrieb Sebastian Nielsen via mailop:
When a service is provided totally for free, no strings attached, no
requirements, nothing.
Then its not a "service offered for remundiation" and thus, according to that
§5, its not a telemedia.
§1 TMG has a definition what it thinks
Dňa 22. októbra 2022 17:06:25 UTC používateľ Sebastian Nielsen via mailop
napísal:
>If its free for absolutely no cost, then its "on your own risk". You can't
>really expect anything if you grab something for free.
>Then imprint is not required, the electronic service laws doesn't apply, and
Dnia 22.10.2022 o godz. 20:55:00 Sebastian Nielsen via mailop pisze:
> I agree about open source software, but its also important to know, that
> you cannot expect anything. If the owner of the open source software
> abandons it, then its abandoned.
It's no different for commercial software. If
Am 22.10.22 um 23:55 schrieb Sebastian Nielsen via mailop:
Germany and Sweden do not. And only paid online services require a imprint,
free OR personal online services do not in germany.
Seems like §18 Medienstaatsvertrag disagrees. (»(1) Anbieter von Telemedien,
die nicht ausschließlich
On Sat, 22 Oct 2022, Slavko via mailop wrote:
Dňa Sat, 22 Oct 2022 11:12:28 +0200 Ralph Seichter via mailop
napísal:
I don't know of any German bank where this is the case. In my
experience, banks are quite strict when it comes to account access;
one always needs both athentication and
Dnia 21.10.2022 o godz. 13:42:31 Grant Taylor via mailop pisze:
> On 10/21/22 1:02 PM, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote:
> > As many have pointed out, putting this information online may be harmful
> > to privacy and even facilitate criminal acts against you.
>
> I still feel like there is room for
Ahoj,
Dňa Sat, 22 Oct 2022 09:53:31 +0200 Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
napísal:
> > Ignoring the privacy implications for a few minutes, my
> > understanding is that private (non-commercial) mail servers can
> > also put the same information / imprint / impressum on their web
> > site and thereby
Hi,
Dňa Sat, 22 Oct 2022 11:12:28 +0200 Ralph Seichter via mailop
napísal:
> I don't know of any German bank where this is the case. In my
> experience, banks are quite strict when it comes to account access;
> one always needs both athentication and authorization. Over the last
> month, all
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