Re: [mailop] Reasons to add plain text alternative to email?

2019-12-09 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 9.12.2019 o godz. 09:50:14 Maarten Oelering via mailop pisze: > > But it's almost 2020, and we were wondering if there's still a good reason > for adding plain text to a html message. Is there a significant audience > reading in plain text? Is plain text important for accessibility? >

Re: [mailop] Reasons to add plain text alternative to email?

2019-12-09 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 9.12.2019 o godz. 12:52:31 Steven Champeon via mailop pisze: > > Actual example from this month, and I'm a past customer and in the > market for a fresh prescription update: > >Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2019 04:27:15 + (UTC) >From: "Eyeglasses.com" >To: scham...@hesketh.com >

Re: [mailop] Can someone write me a prescription for a sane MTA? I'm allergic to Postfix.

2019-12-09 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 9.12.2019 o godz. 12:29:56 Steven Champeon via mailop pisze: > > I'm still running most of the 14K lines of custom m4 sendmail rulesets I > wrote back before I knew any better, mostly to deal with specific > ratware signatures. [...] > # f.last_ > # e.g. "First M. Last" > # e.g. "First

Re: [mailop] Reasons to add plain text alternative to email?

2019-12-09 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 9.12.2019 o godz. 09:58:03 Al Iverson via mailop pisze: > Nobody except those 12 guys see the email in plain text. Those 12 > people may be unhappy, but they probably aren't subscribed to a company's > marketing messages anyway. Actually, as one of those 12 guys I don't care about marketing

Re: [mailop] G-Suite removing LSA functionality

2019-12-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.12.2019 o godz. 21:43:45 Jody Belka pisze: > * Outlook 2016 and earlier with the G-Suite Sync for Microsoft Outlook > tool (Windows-only) support it By the way, a company I work for uses G Suite Sync and turned off IMAP access completely for their domain. In that case Outlook with G Suite

Re: [mailop] G-Suite removing LSA functionality

2019-12-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.12.2019 o godz. 13:20:04 Al Iverson via mailop pisze: > Alternatively you can use G Suite Sync for > Microsoft Outlook. By the way, a company I work for uses G Suite Sync and turned off IMAP access completely for their domain. In that case Outlook with G Suite Sync is the only way to

Re: [mailop] G-Suite removing LSA functionality

2019-12-17 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.12.2019 o godz. 17:45:03 Brandon Long pisze: > > (and I think there is > > absolutely no doubt that for professional use *any* email client - even > > many years old Outlook Express ;) - works better than Gmail's web > > interface). > > Consider doubt expressed. :)) Well, maybe my case

Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: BIMI

2019-12-11 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 11.12.2019 o godz. 14:02:59 Sidsel Jensen via mailop pisze: > > Yeah - alpine rocks - simple terminal-based mail-reading - can I join the > club? :-) Back in the old days, elm always looked more convenient and friendly to me than pine. So I'm now on mutt, as successor of elm, and not on

Re: [mailop] MUA archaeology

2019-12-11 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 11.12.2019 o godz. 12:07:49 John Levine via mailop pisze: > > I have my mail presorted into IMAP folders (with procmail of course) > and could never figure out how to make mutt scan them for new mail > like Alpine does automatically. Well, I don't know for IMAP (as I run mutt on my mail

Re: [mailop] G-Suite removing LSA functionality

2019-12-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.12.2019 o godz. 12:42:29 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > Here's the announcement post: > https://gsuiteupdates.googleblog.com/2019/12/less-secure-apps-oauth-google-username-password-incorrect.html > > Note this is more than just unencrypted access, this is using password > based login at

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.10.2019 o godz. 16:17:03 Alexander Zeh via mailop pisze: > Why? Because most people are kind of lazy. They don’t want to move spam > away, even if it’s only one click. But it's one click only once. Not everytime you open your mailbox. I think about it as working as follows: when you

Re: [mailop] Mailop made Hacker News

2019-10-27 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 26.10.2019 o godz. 08:40:38 Simon Lyall via mailop pisze: > Remember that "Gmail marking email from me as spam" thread a couple > of weeks ago? Somebody posted it to Hacker News: If you are recalling that thread, I want to inform everybody, that the issue is solved (at least for now) as it

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 13:23:30 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > We do keep those stats... if you're small enough, there's no signal there, > however. Send 12 messages in 30 days, you're a "low volume sender", and a > risk. You're a risk that those very few messages are spear phishing, 419,

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 10:42:42 Hal Murray via mailop pisze: > > Suppose you block an IP Address. How long should that block remain in place? > > If the source is a legitimate mail system with a phished account, you want to > unblock as soon as the spam stops. If the block is for a spam

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 19:48:03 Laura Atkins via mailop pisze: > > What one recipient sees as spam another recipient not only wants, they’ve > actually gone through a COI process to confirm they want it. > > Spamfolders allow consumer mailbox providers to filter mixed mailstreams in a > more

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 15:07:31 Thomas Walter via mailop pisze: > > Do we even need Junk/Spam-Folders? > > I mean how much mail gets through the first "block directly" level on > your site? Every now and then a wave comes through and results in a bad > mail or two more, but can't people handle

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 10:22:08 Jay Hennigan via mailop pisze: > Way back at the beginning of this thread a week ago (but it seems > like a month), the originator stated that he was: > > * Sending email to addresses he found on websites. > > * Sending with an origin IP on OVH. > > * Sending

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 18:52:33 Michael Orlitzky via mailop pisze: > > 1. It's not fair to judge a sender by his neighbors. > > Well, kind of. Our in-house blacklists are tended manually, and we keep > evidence for every listing so that if we later have to explain > ourselves, we can. If I get

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 11:17:36 Jay Hennigan via mailop pisze: > > >Depending on your client you might even just mark or group them in the > >Inbox, so people can take a quick glance and delete them if they want to. > > The result will be the same, particularly if grouped. No, it won't be the

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 15:32:07 Chris Wedgwood pisze: > > The question was about if we really need to *move* the messages > > marked as spam into a separate folder and hide it from user's view > > by default. > > silently hiding messages would be very frustrating and hard to > understand and

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.10.2019 o godz. 13:01:49 Paul Smith via mailop pisze: > In your first situation, rejecting the messages is very bad. In the > second situation, rejecting the messages *may* be better than > accepting and semi-hiding - but only if you have another viable way > of contacting the recipient.

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.10.2019 o godz. 03:43:10 Ángel via mailop pisze: > > Suppose you bought service/product X, but didn't receive the > confirmation email. > Note: You are an end user, and don't have access to the server logs. ;) > > Did the have an issue sending you the mail? Was it rejected locally as >

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-16 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 16.10.2019 o godz. 13:01:49 Paul Smith via mailop pisze: > On 16/10/2019 12:30, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: > >Second case is when you want to*send* mail to someone. Someone is selling > >something on the Internet, you want to buy it, but in order to do it, you > &g

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-15 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 13:23:30 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > Modern spam filters are a combination of good and bad signals, but if you > have no good signal... then we only have the bad ones. Well, I could see at least few potential "good" signals - I wonder if you use these, and if yes,

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-15 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 23:59:23 Michael Rathbun via mailop pisze: > > >What defines spam is the *contents* of the message... > > Actually, no. Content is largely irrelevant. We almost never terminate a > hosted customer due to content. The major consideration is always consent of > the

Re: [mailop] Do we need Spam folders?

2019-10-15 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 15.10.2019 o godz. 09:44:10 Paul Smith via mailop pisze: > > However, our spam filter actually sends me an email containing a > list of filtered emails every day, to prod me to take a look. It's > sorted and colourised by 'spamminess', so the most likely to be > false positives are shown at

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.10.2019 o godz. 15:56:00 Joel M Snyder via mailop pisze: > There are few that would argue that phishing should not be trapped > and blocked today, but 10 years ago what we now call "whale > phishing"---one-to-one non-commercial non-bulk messages, sometimes > between friends---would have

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.10.2019 o godz. 16:51:41 Michael Rathbun via mailop pisze: > > What file would that have been? "Causes to install" does not require a file And what does the user install if it's not a file? -- Regards, Jaroslaw Rafa r...@rafa.eu.org -- "In a million years, when kids go to

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.10.2019 o godz. 15:03:25 Jay Hennigan via mailop pisze: > > If a message contains malware, it is almost certainly also spam. Yes, but it's better to have two separate tools - one specialized in detecting malware, that does it with high accuracy, and the other a general-purpose spam

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.10.2019 o godz. 15:11:23 Kelly Molloy via mailop pisze: > > Yes, it certainly can be. If an email causes a user to install > ransomware on a corporate network, then it is an enormous and > expensive problem; it's put companies out of business. If a phishing > message means that an company

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.10.2019 o godz. 16:35:50 Michael Rathbun via mailop pisze: > > No anti-malware facility yet devised would have protected my Brazilian client > from one particular attack, because there was absolutely no indication of any > sort that a compromise was intended by a particular message, which

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-23 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.10.2019 o godz. 08:26:58 Allen Kitchen via mailop pisze: > And this suggests that if I simply delete those emails *apparently* > unread, a machine that’s monitoring my behavior won’t notice that I jotted > an entry in another tracking spreadsheet relative to that message before I > deleted

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-23 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.10.2019 o godz. 09:16:26 Brielle via mailop pisze: > > owns their mail servers and can decide how > they want to process mail and who they accept mail from. > > Unless you have arrangements with them otherwise, their acceptance of mail > is a courtesy and not a right > > Contrary to

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-23 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.10.2019 o godz. 11:36:45 Brielle via mailop pisze: > It's not a rant any moreso then your suggestions about regulation, > lawsuits to get your way with e-mail providers, etc. [...] > Reality is, your mere suggestion of regulation / courts to make > providers accept your e-mail makes you a

Re: [mailop] Junk filtering as a tool for unfair competition

2019-10-23 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.10.2019 o godz. 13:47:19 Brielle via mailop pisze: > To quote you... > > >Of course, nobody can succeed individually in a lawsuit against Google. But > >maybe *all* senders who are facing this issue should unite and sue Google > >together. Even if the lawsuit itself fails, it would

Re: [mailop] Reasons ISPs (Microsoft) ignore DMARC policy?

2019-11-20 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 20.11.2019 o godz. 16:11:07 Jon Burke via mailop pisze: > > For business email it makes absolute sense to quarantine emails despite > the policy being reject; but not so for consumer email I thought.. And what actually differentiates "business email" from "consumer email" in this aspect?

Re: [mailop] Best strategy to prune address list

2019-11-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.11.2019 o godz. 17:47:43 hg user via mailop pisze: > When I had to do this kind of work on a mailing list, *more than 10 years > ago*, I started creating a list of all the unique email domains, then with > a script check if a MX record was present. Just to be precise, you should check for

Re: [mailop] Best strategy to prune address list

2019-11-25 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.11.2019 o godz. 22:20:15 Michael Orlitzky via mailop pisze: > On 11/24/19 12:17 PM, Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop wrote: > > > > Just to be precise, you should check for either MX or A/ record. > > This prevents you from eliminating a huge number of bad address

Re: [mailop] Benin, 197.234.221.180, AS37424, "For Jeny SAS Internet customers" Mylove@1

2019-11-28 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 28.11.2019 o godz. 09:15:59 Benoit Panizzon via mailop pisze: > > Over the last months, I have observed many email mailbox abuses from the > "Jeny SAS" IP Range in Benin which used passwords probably obtained by > phishing attacks. > > The interesting thing here is: If we block SMTP for the

Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: Reasons ISPs (Microsoft) ignore DMARC policy?

2019-11-22 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 22.11.2019 o godz. 07:37:05 Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via mailop pisze: > > My prediction for the future: mail will split into two realms: one > consisting of Google, Microsoft, and Facebook, forwarding mail between > their respective users, using protocols that are quite different from > today's

Re: [mailop] Best strategy to prune address list

2019-11-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.11.2019 o godz. 20:05:07 Tom Ivar Helbekkmo via mailop pisze: > In the olden days, one would simply write a script, using expect(1) or > similar, to go through the addresses, connect to the target MTAs, and do > an SMTP VRFY on the recipient address. Today, I suspect that most MTAs > will

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 14:18:52 Mathieu Bourdin via mailop pisze: > > Weel, basically your issue can be summarized in one word: reputation. > > Welcome to email deliverability 101 ;) And in what way this helps anything? Do you want to say "you should just accept that Google got crazy some day

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 10:43:14 Scott Techlist via mailop pisze: > > What about relaying outbound mail via services like Sendgrid? Not sure it > that will make it better, or worse since they send marketing stuff. And > Google probably looking at the source server headers anyway. Myself I hate

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 08:13:37 Brian Kantor via mailop pisze: > > One of my domains, 'ampr.org', which has been in existence longer > than Google has, has the same problem, in that mail from it is often > diverted into the recipient's spam folder. Of course I know what ampr.org is, and if

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 09:24:26 Brielle via mailop pisze: > > Email isn’t a public utility or a right. I’m a DNSbl maintainer - myself > and others have battled this out over the last 20 years to ensure that > even the courts recognize that. > > The fact you can send email to this list, is

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 15:47:29 Graeme Fowler via mailop pisze: > > "Their network; their rules". No, it's not their network. It's our common network. If anybody imposes own rules on their part of the network, we are losing interoperability. Internet loses any sense. > A quick look at Talos

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 16:22:32 Andrew C Aitchison via mailop pisze: > > But the basic problem remains; an AI has decided it doesn't like you. > Many bad guys spend significant amounts of time/money/effort trying > to get out of this AI's bad books, so it has defences again those > who try to

[mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Hello All, this is my first post to this list - I just learned about its existence and someone told me that maybe it is possible to solve my issue here. I run my own personal mailserver at rafa.eu.org for quite a few years. All the time I had absolutely no problems with sending messages to Gmail.

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 14:35:54 Mathieu Bourdin pisze: > > The technical corrections you did are only the first step, now you have to > make sure that each and every mail you send from your infrastructure > complies with the greatest of all rules: send mail only to people who > asked for it, and

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 08:24:45 Michael Peddemors via mailop pisze: > Hehe.. don't feel bad, we have even seen receipts for our Spam > Protection product(s) end up in their spam folders sometimes.. > > If it isn't because you are missing an SPF record for your domain, > it is likely content.. we

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 20:08:57 Alessandro Vesely via mailop pisze: > > Previously I didn't have SPF nor DKIM (as I wrote, for long time it was > > absolutely no obstacle in getting my messages received by Gmail users), so I > > configured them, I also published a DMARC record. DMARC reports I

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 20:09:28 Andy Smith via mailop pisze: > > Yes, it is extremely frustrating, but gmail's users seem prepared to > have some amount of false positives. It would be great if it would be the case. I wouldn't care that my message can land in recipient's spam folder if the

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 15:14:34 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > Use a third party relay that has a better reputation and volume? That was the first thing that came to my mind as a workaround. But just tried it and it doesn't work. Sent via an intermediate server in AWS cloud. The mail is going

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 14:38:23 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > The way Google finds out that a sender is valid is people marking it > not-spam. We can > trust (mostly, sorta, kinda) our receivers more than we can trust the > senders. Plus, that's > our definition of spam, it's what our

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 15:14:34 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > Because a handful of users marking them as not-spam isn't enough to overcome > the netblock signal. Well, I think that a company that has access to such amount of computing power as Google has, wouldn't have a problem to calculate

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 16:01:26 Brandon Long pisze: > > What value does the reputation calculation have of an IP that's sent 20 > messages to us in the last 30 days? Because the volume of messages is so low, I guess you should assume that they are OK unless it is *proven* that they are spam

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 10:16:10 Brielle via mailop pisze: > > You do realize, some of us have been through lawsuits before because > people like you thought that your supposed 'right' to send e-mail > trumped our rights to the equipment/bandwidth/resources we own? Well, we all have right to

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 10:24:25 Jay Hennigan via mailop pisze: > > No. Google's mailservers are on Google's network. Google is under no > obligation to accept email from other networks at all, much less > have other networks dictate how it is delivered. If Google's users > are happy with

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 10:13:21 Jay Hennigan via mailop pisze: > Can you elaborate on: > > "It happens mostly to recipients to whom I write for the first time (for > example, found their e-mail address at their website and want to ask for > something I'm interested in)." > > Are you sending

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 10:19:57 Brielle via mailop pisze: > > Hate to break it to you, but its always been "my network, my rules". > When people started being shitty neighbors, those people who were > once understanding started protecting themselves better. > > I've been a network admin my

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 10:27:49 Anne P. Mitchell, Esq. via mailop pisze: > > How recently did you do all this? Unfortunately, as with many things, it > takes only a moment to destroy your sending reputation, and months to > rebuild it. Well, maybe I actually have to wait - it was "only" a week

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 11:07:23 Brielle via mailop pisze: > There is no difference when it comes to the rights of what I can do > with the equipment/bandwidth I own. > > I regularly and without a second thought block whole TLDs and > /24 > netblocks. Do I worry about it? Not really, I would.

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 16:16:56 Brandon Long pisze: > > Except it's usually trivial for folks within a netblock to move their > traffic from one IP > to another. So isn't it better for such low-volume senders as me to rely on content analysis only rather than including netblock reputation into

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 17:17:32 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > If content analysis was sufficient, why would anyone bother with all of the > other signals? Mostly to save time and computing power maybe? With thousands of messages sent from a particular IP, content analysis of each one of

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 8.10.2019 o godz. 00:48:25 Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop pisze: > Dnia 7.10.2019 o godz. 15:14:34 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > Use a third party relay that has a better reputation and volume? > > That was the first thing that came to my mind as a workaround. B

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-08 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 8.10.2019 o godz. 13:42:32 Matt Palmer via mailop pisze: > > The other commonality is that AWS EC2 is at least as much of a pit of spam > and abuse as OVH is, and I'm not surprised that you don't get treated better > by GMail when you start sending them mail from a rando EC2 address. As I

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-10 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 9.10.2019 o godz. 16:49:46 John R Levine via mailop pisze: > > Right. I didn't get the message you were responding to, so I looked > in the logs and see the IP is in the middle of a block at OVH that > gushes spam so it went straight to the spam trap. The logs say that > it's the only

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-10 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 10.10.2019 o godz. 09:42:34 Paul Smith via mailop pisze: > > Nowadays, you'd be daft to accept mail from anywhere unless the > sender 'proves' to be nasty. Generally, you'll find it more likely > to work the other way. If you're an unknown sender, you're likely to > be filtered until you're

Re: [mailop] Erroneous Hotmail spam/junk JMR email due to recipient error, where's the operator feedback loop?

2019-10-09 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 8.10.2019 o godz. 14:05:20 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > At one point when I was complaining about the Gmail UI for that, I did a > survey, and several competing products used the exact opposite > iconography for spam/trask, > just leading to more user confusion... and us making sure to

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-09 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 9.10.2019 o godz. 13:23:16 John Levine via mailop pisze: > If you're not willing to pay 10€ for a real domain name, why should anyone > put any effort into accepting your mail? Just because you should by default accept mail from everyone *unless* the sender proved to be

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-13 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 10.10.2019 o godz. 09:55:58 Brielle via mailop pisze: > > Let me ask you something very straight forward. > > How much do you pay Google so that you can e-mail their users? Don't you see the absurdity of that question? And everything else you wrote in your message? I already wrote about

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 11:17:11 Laura Atkins via mailop pisze: > > If the perception is based on a false understanding of how things work, > it’s nearly impossible to change that perception. Take this discussion. > There are some people who have the perception that Google is acting > unfairly

Re: [mailop] Gmail marking email from me as spam

2019-10-14 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 14.10.2019 o godz. 10:17:55 Laura Atkins via mailop pisze: > > We’re a small legitimate sender that recently (in the last 18 months) > moved our mailserver from a SWIPed IP range on our own hardware to a > single IP sitting on a VPS. We've had zero problem getting mail delivered [...] >

Re: [mailop] G-Suite removing LSA functionality

2019-12-18 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 18.12.2019 o godz. 10:18:33 Ken O'Driscoll via mailop pisze: > > I've used Evolution (which talks GOA) for years with multiple G Suite > accounts and it works like a treat. And that's in a work capacity, not as a > home user/hobbyist so I'm unforgiving of problems. Nice to hear that. Until

Re: [mailop] Gmail doesn't like my IPv6 address, why?

2019-12-19 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 19.12.2019 o godz. 16:46:51 Andrew C Aitchison via mailop pisze: > I suspect that the simple answer is that GMail has not established that > the two sources are in fact the same, and your IPv6 source, being new, > has no positive reputation. "No positive reputation" should not by default

Re: [mailop] G-Suite removing LSA functionality

2019-12-20 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 19.12.2019 o godz. 13:02:00 Philip Paeps via mailop pisze: > > Hrm. So potentially, if Davmail jumps through Google's hoops, one > could point fetchmail at Davmail... Definitely Davmail in it's current state can't do it, as it's targeted to talk to Exchange only. It would need an

Re: [mailop] AT Block - abuse_...@abuse-att.net still valid?

2020-02-12 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 12.02.2020 o godz. 11:25:39 Laura Atkins via mailop pisze: > > Right, but the way around, for bad behavior one should have and provide > > data to prove it. > > > Why? Isn't it obvious? If you are accusing someone of any behaviour, you should have at least some evidence to back up your

Re: [mailop] Sendgrid strikes again; zendesk, actually

2020-02-26 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 26.02.2020 o godz. 12:12:13 Alessandro Vesely via mailop pisze: > > Sorry, I thought I had made it clear they're _not_ ticket ack. I attach the > last one I received, it arrived five minutes after I sent the last complaint. It looks like they are just returning you the message you have

Re: [mailop] Sendgrid strikes again; zendesk, actually

2020-02-26 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 26.02.2020 o godz. 11:50:18 Paul Smith via mailop pisze: > It looks EXACTLY like a ticket acknowledgement email to me. The "## > In replies all text above this line is added to the ticket ##" text > is telling me that it's a ticket acknowledgement and is allowing you > to add more information

[mailop] These guys are doing it right!

2020-03-06 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Hello all, once in a while a topic of e-mails from small senders being mis-classified as spam returns on this list. Some time ago I was complaining (and not only me, there were more people who experienced the same thing) about Google putting my messages into users' Spam folder without me or them

Re: [mailop] [EXTERNAL] Re: [FEEDBACK] whose address, was Approach to dealing with List Washing services, industry feedback..

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.01.2020 o godz. 15:50:53 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > Expecting users to be trained to catch this is... wishful thinking, > perhaps? Maybe 1 in 100 will manage it, and even then, not all the time. > > I mean, it's nice if it's easier to tell, for those who know what they're >

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 23.01.2020 o godz. 21:24:31 John Gateley via mailop pisze: > I have run my own mail server for about 20 years. > It is postfix, and has DNS, SPF and DKIM set up correctly. > It is very small, just serving mail for my wife and I. > > She recently sent email to a group of students for a class

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 09:37:56 Paul Smith via mailop pisze: > The best thing is for the recipients to mark it as a good message. > That'll feedback to Gmail's systems that the sender is good. The problem is, users almost never check their spam folder. So this won't work as expected. --

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 10:59:53 Gregory Heytings via mailop pisze: > > That's your opinion. My opinion is that "-all" is almost never a > good idea, and is certainly not a good idea for a small personal > server. It breaks forwards and mailing lists. "?all" does not mean > "we're not sure

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 12:24:56 Johann Klasek via mailop pisze: > The worst is using +all in any case just to try to prevent forwarding and > mainlinglist troubles. In such case it would be better not to use SPF at > all. The problem is, Google (and probably other big e-mail providers too, I

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 12:40:17 Gregory Heytings via mailop pisze: > > Sorry, but the OP experiences delivery issues with Gmail servers, so > suggesting him to solve the issue by contacting the recipients of > that particular email is just nonsense. It won't improve anything > for the other

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 12:44:56 M. Omer GOLGELI via mailop pisze: > Google usually displays why it thinks an email is spam when an email marked > as spam is opened. Yes, and it's usually always the same reason: "The message is similar to others identified by our filters as spam". I've never

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-24 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 14:02:50 Renaud Allard via mailop pisze: > > I tend to disagree. If you allow every IP to send mail on your > behalf, then why even bother putting an SPF record. For me, only > -all makes sense, all others are just as meaningful as having no SPF > records at all. Well, I

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-26 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 26.01.2020 o godz. 00:15:58 Ángel via mailop pisze: > The problem is that it seems that Gmail is pulling your leg. A technical > explanation ("We marked it as spam because the sender says any mails > sent from that server are not from him [SPF and DMARC link]") would be > fine, as it would

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-01-26 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 24.01.2020 o godz. 15:11:58 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > There is no way to guarantee that a first-time email arrives in the inbox. > > If there was, the spammers would all use it. > > The best you can do is "attach" your email to some existing source of > reputation. >

Re: [mailop] [FEEDBACK] whose address, was Approach to dealing with List Washing services, industry feedback..

2020-01-26 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 26.01.2020 o godz. 02:30:57 Ángel via mailop pisze: > The safest way to avoid this dance seems to be not to provide > any phone at all (or one for every user, perhaps, which is also > suboptimal). Not providing a phone number at all also doesn't help sometimes. As I have already written,

Re: [mailop] [FEEDBACK] whose address, was Approach to dealing with List Washing services, industry feedback..

2020-01-27 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 26.01.2020 o godz. 23:03:35 Brandon Long via mailop pisze: > > Passwords are terrible and completely broken. They are generally poorly > chosen, > weak, and re-used. The result is extreme levels of hijacking. On top of > that, people > forget their passwords and this isn't something like

Re: [mailop] not certs, please was whose address

2020-01-27 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 27.01.2020 o godz. 18:04:54 John Levine via mailop pisze: > Because it's unusable unless you're a total nerd. I have provisioned my > browser > to use client certs and it wasn't pretty. I have used certs on my company intranet. The setup didn't look that hard - after initial login with

Re: [mailop] Business justification to use noreply sender addresses?

2020-02-06 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 6.02.2020 o godz. 19:37:39 Patrick Ben Koetter via mailop pisze: > why is it that everyone is still using noreply addresses to send notifications > and other one-way messages? Myself, when I'm writing any script that sends automated notifications, I'm always using some real, replyable

Re: [mailop] +-addressing support

2020-02-06 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 6.02.2020 o godz. 12:43:52 Philip Paeps via mailop pisze: > > Why are there still setups in 2020 that don't support this? Especially that all main MTAs have been supporting this "since always"... Sendmail has supported this since quite old releases, Postfix probably was supporting it from

Re: [mailop] Messages from small personal SMTP server being marked as junk by Google

2020-02-03 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 3.02.2020 o godz. 09:27:26 Vittorio Bertola via mailop pisze: > > Well, there is a certain market share above which "my network my rules" > becomes "anticompetitive business practices", +1 > but I guess this is not a topic for this list anyway. Why not? We are still talking about a mail

Re: [mailop] How long to retry?

2020-02-04 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 4.02.2020 o godz. 22:53:00 Mark Foster via mailop pisze: > > I've always made a point of educating people that email is not an SLA'd > service and the odd delay will happen. If people need a fast response they > need an interactive engagement - a phonecall. However, for big web-based email

Re: [mailop] [ext] Re: Business justification to use noreply sender addresses?

2020-02-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.02.2020 o godz. 14:14:14 Ralf Hildebrandt via mailop pisze: > > > why is it that everyone is still using noreply addresses to send > > > notifications > > > and other one-way messages? > > Autoresponders. (out of office mostly). > > If you're using a MLM, the "real" bounces go to the

Re: [mailop] [ext] Re: Business justification to use noreply sender addresses?

2020-02-07 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.02.2020 o godz. 16:34:38 Ralf Hildebrandt via mailop pisze: > Then, shit happens. > > * I get autoreplies to my address (expected, since it's in the From: header) > * I get autoreplies to the envelope sender address (I only see them because I > check the mailman logs) > * I get real

Re: [mailop] A question ... who is optinx . org ???

2020-02-08 Thread Jaroslaw Rafa via mailop
Dnia 7.02.2020 o godz. 23:38:05 Al Iverson via mailop pisze: > "OLA Workplace Skills Training Centre" traces to 1655 Palm Beach Lakes > Blvd. Suite C-1005, West Palm Beach, FL, 33401 which appears to be > SmartAdv LLC or Intelligent Media Group or Intelligent Holdings, Inc. Name like "SmartAdv"

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