Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
On 2024-11-20 at 14:10:42 UTC-0500 (Wed, 20 Nov 2024 14:10:42 -0500) Miles Fidelman via mailop is rumored to have said: Hi Folks, Not really sure where to ask this question, so I'll start here. I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP address attached to it. The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? I'm almost concerned that the above query may just be a joke: a LLM hallucination turned into a question. IPFS is a storage layer, not an email protocol. What does it even mean to have a mail server "running" on IPFS? It might *USE* IPFS, but the mail server itself never exposes its storage layer to clients. So the whole think is nuts but I'll act like it isn't... You can't. If it has no IP address at which it is listening for TCP connections on port 25, no one will ever know how to connect. SMTP is defined as a protocol that uses TCP on port 25. IMAP is a protocol that uses TCP over ports 143 or 993. How do I set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has nothing but an IPFS CID to identify it? You can't. SMTP uses TCP over IPv4 or IPv6. As specified, it looks for a MX record that resolves to a *HOSTNAME* that MUST have an A record. You are looking to define something else, which would by necessity be entirely new. I can set up a DNS_Link TXT record, pointing to an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve to an FQDN. Any thoughts? SMTP uses an A record if there is no MX record. It has no provision for using a TXT record of any sort. If you cannot create a valid MX and/or A that explains how to connect on port 25 using TCP to one or more specific IP addresses, you cannot use SMTP. SMTP might be able to use other underlying transport protocols, if they act a lot like TCP. Any thoughts on where to ask the question? If you want to do this, you will need to figure out a replacement for or major enhancement to SMTP on your own and convince others to work with your alternative protocol. Maybe seek out a relevant IETF WG? I wish you good luck, even though I think the whole idea is a pointless waste of energy which will go nowhere. If you actually get anywhere with the concept, it might be interesting. -- Bill Cole [email protected] or [email protected] (AKA @[email protected] and many *@billmail.scconsult.com addresses) Not Currently Available For Hire ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
Am Mittwoch, 20. November 2024, 20:31:37 schrieb Marco Moock via mailop: > server that is accessible by a public IPv4 and IPv6 address. > > If you don't have that, people can't reach you. > > Of course, you can use NAT with static rules, if you need/want. > > The MX includes a hostname and this needs to point to A/ records > with public addresses. I would'nt agree here with IPv6 as a must/requirement. There are still a lot of Mailservers / MX out without servicing in IPv6 at all. A static IPv4 incl. reverse DNS is (still) a must for a halfway reliably accepted MTA. cheers, niels. -- --- Niels Dettenbach Syndicat IT & Internet https://www.syndicat.com PGP: https://syndicat.com/pub_key.asc --- ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
On 11/20/24 13:10, Miles Fidelman via mailop wrote: I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP address attached to it. As others have indicated, an IP address is required to receive email via SMTP. It's possible that the IP address isn't on the mail server but instead some sort of gateway system. But the world sending email to / receiving email from your ""server will require an IP address. The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? How do I set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has nothing but an IPFS CID to identify it? I can set up a DNS_Link TXT record, pointing to an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve to an FQDN. You don't. SMTP requires an IP. Any thoughts? Any thoughts on where to ask the question? You may be able to stand up a VPS that has (access to) an IP address to speak SMTP out to the world and IPFS out the back for storage. You may even be able to have multiple such VPSs sharing the same IPFS, including running client access services IMAPS, POP3S, etc. But I'm quite certain that SMTP with the world won't work without an IP address somewhere. -- Grant. . . . ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
On Wed, Nov 20, 2024 at 02:10:42PM -0500, Miles Fidelman via mailop wrote: > Hi Folks, > > Not really sure where to ask this question, so I'll start here. > I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual > server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP > address attached to it. > The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? How do I > set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has nothing but an > IPFS CID to identify it? I can set up a DNS_Link TXT record, pointing to > an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve to an FQDN. > Any thoughts? Any thoughts on where to ask the question? It won't work, mainly because you seem to misunderstand SMTP, IPFS, or possibly both. Firstly, SMTP. As you have already discovered, MX records point at hostnames. Without checking the RFCs, I suspect it's not technically required for these hostnames to be DNS-resolvable into IP addresses and that alternative schemes (such as onion addresses) are permitted, but of course SMTP clients need to know how to connect to your mailserver. So if you expect to receive mail from the world, you need a publicly-routed IPv4 address with a SMTP server listening on port 25, to which you point MX and A records in the conventional manner, and this is going to remain the case for the forseeable future. Meanwhile, IPFS is a somewhat overcomplex and brittle suite of protocols for assembling a file-serving CDN from. Apart from that the public IPFS network is basically a volunteer-effort thing so it's slow and unreliable, its job is the *distribution* of files in a similar manner to HTTP, and is very much not a mail server or a hosting provider or service upon which you can build a mail server: suppose that you could convince the entire world to understand your novel DNS record and speak IPFS, now what? I suppose they could upload the email to the network as a file, but how does the recipient know that they've been sent a mail and what its IPFS CID is so they can retrieve it from the server? It's just the wrong tool for the job. This is the sort of hare-brained idea which could only make sense after seriously overdosing on blockchain fumes. ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
As Marco Moock wrote, there is no "hack". Just put the public IP address on the Virtual Server or use a NAT Router between the Virtual Server and the internet. Michael Irvine -Original Message- From: mailop On Behalf Of Miles Fidelman via mailop Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2024 15:55 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the organization. Do not click any links or open attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe. Marco Moock via mailop wrote: > Am 20.11.2024 um 14:10:42 Uhr schrieb Miles Fidelman via mailop: > >> I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual >> server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP >> address attached to it. >> >> The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? How >> do I set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has >> nothing but an IPFS CID to identify it? I can set up a DNS_Link TXT >> record, pointing to an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve >> to an FQDN. > If you want other people to be able to reach you by mail you need a > server that is accessible by a public IPv4 and IPv6 address. > > If you don't have that, people can't reach you. > > Of course, you can use NAT with static rules, if you need/want. > > The MX includes a hostname and this needs to point to A/ records > with public addresses. > Otherwise other servers can't deliver mail. > Well Duh... I'm asking if anybody has figured out a hack for delivering mail to virtual servers. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
On Wed, 20 Nov 2024, Miles Fidelman via mailop wrote: Hi Folks, Not really sure where to ask this question, so I'll start here. I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP address attached to it. Virtual servers can and do have IP addresses. Are you *choosing* not to have one, or is it "forced" upon you ? Do we need a pointer to the Web3 IPFS cloud not to guess what is special about it ? https://web3.storage/ suggests that it is about *data*. I suspect that you cannot *run* anything on it (except database queries ?). The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? How do I set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has nothing but an IPFS CID to identify it? I can set up a DNS_Link TXT record, pointing to an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve to an FQDN. Any thoughts? Any thoughts on where to ask the question? -- Andrew C. Aitchison Kendal, UK [email protected] ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
Marco Moock via mailop wrote: Am 20.11.2024 um 14:10:42 Uhr schrieb Miles Fidelman via mailop: I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP address attached to it. The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? How do I set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has nothing but an IPFS CID to identify it? I can set up a DNS_Link TXT record, pointing to an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve to an FQDN. If you want other people to be able to reach you by mail you need a server that is accessible by a public IPv4 and IPv6 address. If you don't have that, people can't reach you. Of course, you can use NAT with static rules, if you need/want. The MX includes a hostname and this needs to point to A/ records with public addresses. Otherwise other servers can't deliver mail. Well Duh... I'm asking if anybody has figured out a hack for delivering mail to virtual servers. Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is. Yogi Berra Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. In our lab, theory and practice are combined: nothing works and no one knows why. ... unknown ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
Re: [mailop] addressing a mail server running in virtual space
Am 20.11.2024 um 14:10:42 Uhr schrieb Miles Fidelman via mailop: > I've been thinking of migrating our mail infrastructure to a virtual > server, running in the Web3 IPFS cloud - without having a physical IP > address attached to it. > > The obvious question becomes: How do I publish an address to it? How > do I set up an MX record to point to a socket listener that has > nothing but an IPFS CID to identify it? I can set up a DNS_Link TXT > record, pointing to an IPNS record - but MX records have to resolve > to an FQDN. If you want other people to be able to reach you by mail you need a server that is accessible by a public IPv4 and IPv6 address. If you don't have that, people can't reach you. Of course, you can use NAT with static rules, if you need/want. The MX includes a hostname and this needs to point to A/ records with public addresses. Otherwise other servers can't deliver mail. -- Gruß Marco Send unsolicited bulk mail to [email protected] ___ mailop mailing list [email protected] https://list.mailop.org/listinfo/mailop
